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Building a pc, i5-760 or Phenom II x4 975?

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November 4, 2010 12:05:18 AM

Hello,

Just wondering what would be the better processor out of them both. Looking to buy in the next couple of weeks so I'm desperate to find out any issues either have!

It 'should' be running 8gb 1600 DDR3 ram with a single GTX 460. Not 100% sure about overclocking but it's doubtful in the short term but long term.. Maybe.

Also, would a 600w PSU be sufficient or would it be best to go higher?
a c 900 à CPUs
November 4, 2010 12:20:34 AM

600 watt is fine for a single card. The I5 is better if the plan is to go with SLI down the road.
November 4, 2010 12:21:59 AM

If there wasn't the new refresh around the corner i would recomend a AMD Phenom II x4 955 then OC if you so please. A 975 is just an OC'ed version of the 955. BUT I would go cheap right now (Maybe a Athlon II x3 440-445 or a Phenom II x2 555 and unlock the cores and OC), since sandy bridge comes out in a few. When sandy bridge/bulldozer comes out grab one of those :) .
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November 4, 2010 12:22:56 AM

rolli59 said:
600 watt is fine for a single card. The I5 is better if the plan is to go with SLI down the road.


AHHH but more expensive than the 955 or the others i mentioned right on the eve of Sandy Bridge and Bulldozer... :lol:  Its just a few months... So excited!!!
a c 89 à CPUs
November 4, 2010 12:27:24 AM

yeah, get a motherboard that will support amd's soon to be released cpu's, and just throw in the cheaper phenom 955 or 945 for now. They are still plenty fast for any games or desktop apps anyways.
November 4, 2010 1:09:15 AM

AMD 955 all the way trust me
a b à CPUs
November 4, 2010 1:16:07 AM

iam2thecrowe said:
yeah, get a motherboard that will support amd's soon to be released cpu's, and just throw in the cheaper phenom 955 or 945 for now. They are still plenty fast for any games or desktop apps anyways.

There is no motherboard from either AMD or Intel that will support the next generation of cpu's from either company.

Look for a combo deal especially if your buying at newegg. You can usually save 30 or 40 dollars whether its a cpu/m/b combo or cpu/mem . Some combo of the three.
I vote for the i5 760.
November 4, 2010 1:18:42 AM

600 Watts is enough juice to run, if you go SLI you might want to consider getting a 750 Watt +. Google PSU Calc and click any of the ones you see. Plug the info into the calculater. I like to put the CPU usage at 100% and the System Load to 100% then put the capacitor aging at about 10% if you want it to last a few more years. If you plan on having it for awhile go about 30-50%. :) 
November 4, 2010 8:19:31 AM

Thanks for the info guys, probably going to go with the i5. I would go for the AMD and I was very tempted but the i5 is a bit newer and in most of the benchmarks it wiped the floor with the 975.
a b à CPUs
November 4, 2010 4:19:03 PM

A 2nd reason to go with the I5-750 is if you plan on going with a SSD, either now or shortly - The Intel southbrige is a big Plus as AMD have yet to come out with a fix for their AHCI driver (been over a year and I see nothing in the pipeline).
This primarily affects the Newer generation of SSDs using the SF-1200 Controller. The SF1200 series performs best with the New Intel RST drivers and even on the Intel MBs if you use the uSoft default AHCI driver you take a performance hit. Could be wrong, but I do not think the AMD AHCI driver will pass win 7 Trim Cmd, which means using the default uSoft driver if you want trim.

Added, Outside the SSD issue, I don't think you would see a Big performance issue in day-to-day use with either platform. But untill AMD fixes their SSD compatability problem I can not recommend AMD.
a c 131 à CPUs
November 4, 2010 5:00:34 PM

First, there is currently still no such thing as the Phenom IIx4 975. The highest model is the 970 at 3.5GHz.

Second, there is little to no difference between the two of them. Had for a lower price and if you do not intend to overclock, the 970 is a better option. But if you plan to overclock, get the i5 or if you find the i5 for the same price. Also note that the 970 is more power hungry.

The benchmark:
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/109?vs=186

Analysis: They seem very close and if you look, each is ahead at different things.

Third, what are you talking about RetiredChief? I've had no issues with my Vertex 2 and my AM2+ setup.

Thanks for the info guys, probably going to go with the i5. I would go for the AMD and I was very tempted but the i5 is a bit newer and in most of the benchmarks it wiped the floor with the 975.
No clue what benchmarks you're looking at but regardless, good choice.
a b à CPUs
November 4, 2010 6:55:58 PM

+1 Phenom II 955 if you plan on using just 1 GTX 460.

I do agree the i5 is better, but unless the OP is playing CPU bound games, i5 is overkill for a single 460 IMO.
a b à CPUs
November 4, 2010 6:56:03 PM

At Enzo Matrix
From what I’ve read the only way for Trim to work (Not just enabled) is to use uSoft AHCI default driver, or Ver 9 of Intel’s RST AHCI driver.
From AMD website forum (On AHCI and trim) ignore the Post dealing with Raid, However Intel’s Latest RST drive does support trim as Long as the drive is not a member of a raid0/1 set.
http://forums.amd.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=383&t...
And from Overclocker:
http://www.overclock.net/ssd/781424-does-amd-ahci-drive...

Now the question of vertex -2 performance.
First what is your WEI (should be around 7.8) and your overall score using AS benchmark (For Phoenix Pro, I get a 471 (WEI was 7.3 and went to 7.8)
Here is one on Vertex -2 where AS first scored overall at 220, after getting it setup he ended up with a score of 348 still less than should be.
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/forum2.php?config=tom...
My experience is with the Phoenix pro. Had to re-install using Intel’s RST as performance was subpar using uSoft AHCI driver. There are a number of threads on this. While the phoenix Pro is Not the vertex, they both use the SF-1200 controller, could be the Phoenix is more susceptible to this problem???
Also (on Phoenix Pro):
http://www.gskill.us/forum/showthread.php?t=6567
November 4, 2010 7:22:33 PM

Raidur I was looking at the benchmarks (to clear up, I'm only bothered about games performance) and the i5 seems to blow the 955 out the water.

My budget is £360 for mobo, cpu and ram. (Total build cost = £750 max) So the i5 is well within my budget. I'm using the motherboard bundles in my local store as a pricing estimate:

PII 965 + foxconn mobo + 4gb ddr3 = £275
PII 970 + foxconn mobo + 4gb ddr3 = £285
i5 760 + asus mobo + 4gb ddr3 = £305

I worked out it's only up to around £30/40 extra to build from scratch so I'm going for that but to simplify this lets just go with these as the options. As stated I can afford to go up to about £350 on the cpu, mobo + half the ram.

Just to clarify this is for gaming, and general use. I'm not bothered about how fast iTunes opens, I just want a decent steady framerate when used with a single GTX460. It might be overkill but I do plan to go for a new GPU in around a year, so probably whatever the latest model in that time is.

Just to show how overdue this system build is my current pc is:

Pentium D - 2.8ghz
2gb ram
Nvidia 9500GT

Just realised.. One other option is the Phenom II x6 95w version. It only brings the cost up a little, worthwhile or utterly pointless?
a c 81 à CPUs
November 4, 2010 7:26:31 PM

The i5 is the stronger processor here and sits on an excellent platform which supports both SLI and Crossfire.. So IMO, if you can afford it then go for it.. For a single video card though, both will perform identically.. If you decide to go for AMD, get the X4 965.. Guaranteed C3 stepping and a little cheaper over your current selection.. The price difference over the i5 gives you the opportunity to get an aftermarket CPU cooler or invest towards getting a more powerful video card..
November 4, 2010 7:32:02 PM

Ok, just to make this easier from a value point of view:

My preferred choices are: 965, 970 & i5-760 (i5 being the favourite ATM)

955: £112
965: £135
970: £150

i5 750: £140
i5 760: £150

Just a quick mention but is there any point in looking at the Phenom X6 1055? If anyone knows (wrong forum I know!) but the GTX460 & 470, whats the difference, other than the cost.
November 4, 2010 7:47:16 PM

From a budget standpoint anything under £160 is good, otherwise I'd have to buy a worse motherboard and ram. The i5 allows me £200 for mobo and ram. So £85 for an Asus P7H55 £115 for ram.

So do I go for the cheaper processor and a better set of RAM. Or stick with the £115 RAM and £85 motherboard..
a c 81 à CPUs
November 4, 2010 7:52:31 PM

thehiddenpriest said:
Just a quick mention but is there any point in looking at the Phenom X6 1055? If anyone knows (wrong forum I know!) but the GTX460 & 470, whats the difference, other than the cost.


The X6 line is not worth looking for when it comes to gaming as the primary and predominant usage.. The GTX 470 is a faster and more power hungry GPU compared to the GTX 460 1GB.. However, since you've a 600W PSU, you basically have enough power for your rig with a GTX 470 and regardless of any CPU you choose.. In future however, if you decide to go SLI, your 600W PSU may suffice for two GTX 460 1GB's but wont be enough for two GTX 470's..
November 4, 2010 8:25:15 PM

Thanks for the info Emperus. It's definately down to either the 965 or the i5 now. Bonus on the i5 is the slight difference in power, especially the increase in game performance. Main bonus of the 965 is the fact it cuts the total build estimate from £360 to £325. That's if I keep to my original plan of 8gb ram.
a b à CPUs
November 4, 2010 8:32:09 PM

The i5 is slightly better in gaming but you can get a 9550 and a 6870 for the same price of the i5 + 460 and you end up with a better gaming system. The video cards is more important than the CPU in gaming. Also you don't need 8G of RAM, 4G is enough.

Better state your budget for the system and if you already have some parts that can be used.
November 4, 2010 8:50:25 PM

Mosox:

Going all new on this build. Top end of budget is £710 including OS - £620 max not counting OS.

£350 max for CPU, motherboard & RAM
£150 max for GPU
£50 max for PSU = Would a 500W work? - Trying to cut down costs here.
£25 max for cooling equipment

Hard/optical drives are less important (plus I have about 7 various 80/100gb HDDs) so I'm less worried about them at this moment. Case is already purchased - Deducted it from budget.



a c 131 à CPUs
November 4, 2010 9:03:45 PM

Quote:
You are looking at the wrong benchmark.OP wants to buy i5 760 not 750.

My bad. Got confused because RetiredChief was talking about the 750:

Here we go:
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/191?vs=186

And let me revise myself:
The 760 outperforms the 970 in almost everything, so if you can find it for a similar price or a bit more, it's what you should get. If it is more than a bit more expensive, ask if you will overclock or you want the power consumption reduction.
a b à CPUs
November 4, 2010 9:14:53 PM

TBH if the difference is that small and you don't mind paying it definitely go for the i5. The i5 naturally is well worth the premium, only question is if you'll ever see the performance and if that gain will be worth it.

It will give you good headroom for gpu upgrades and the overclock headroom is BEASTLY compared to the high clocked Phenom IIs.

So not only will it have more power for upgraded GPUs out of the box, but you can squeeze another ~30-40% out of it through overclocking and really unlock it's potential when needed down the road.

a b à CPUs
November 4, 2010 9:31:09 PM

AMD Phenom II X4 965
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/186428
Gigabyte GA-870A-UD3
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/218937
G-Skill 4GB (2x2GB) DDR3
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/180490
Sapphire HD 6870
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/244430
Antec Basiq Power 550W
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/141007
Scythe Shuriken
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/148079

£574.35

If you want crossfire capability (be able to add a second video card later) make these changes:
Gigabyte GA-890GPA-UD3H
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/197546
Corsair 650W TX
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/135514

£605.12
a c 131 à CPUs
November 4, 2010 9:57:11 PM

RetiredChief said:
At Enzo Matrix
From what I’ve read the only way for Trim to work (Not just enabled) is to use uSoft AHCI default driver, or Ver 9 of Intel’s RST AHCI driver.
From AMD website forum (On AHCI and trim) ignore the Post dealing with Raid, However Intel’s Latest RST drive does support trim as Long as the drive is not a member of a raid0/1 set.
http://forums.amd.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=383&t...
And from Overclocker:
http://www.overclock.net/ssd/781424-does-amd-ahci-drive...

Now the question of vertex -2 performance.
First what is your WEI (should be around 7.8) and your overall score using AS benchmark (For Phoenix Pro, I get a 471 (WEI was 7.3 and went to 7.8)
Here is one on Vertex -2 where AS first scored overall at 220, after getting it setup he ended up with a score of 348 still less than should be.
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/forum2.php?config=tom...
My experience is with the Phoenix pro. Had to re-install using Intel’s RST as performance was subpar using uSoft AHCI driver. There are a number of threads on this. While the phoenix Pro is Not the vertex, they both use the SF-1200 controller, could be the Phoenix is more susceptible to this problem???
Also (on Phoenix Pro):
http://www.gskill.us/forum/showthread.php?t=6567

From the forum you linked:
"The latest SandForce drives do not need TRIM nearly as bad as older SSDs did. My drive for example needs it, but any SF 1200 controlled drive handles things much much better. I would not be switching to Intel just to have TRIM support from their storage drivers. You just need to emphasize to your customers NOT to install AMD's AHCI drivers and just go with Microsoft's... they perform better anyway! "

Upon further research you are correct that the AMD chipset drivers do not support trim. However, the solution is to use the microsoft ones and there is no issues with that.
November 4, 2010 10:57:30 PM

mosox said:
AMD Phenom II X4 965
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/186428
Gigabyte GA-870A-UD3
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/218937
G-Skill 4GB (2x2GB) DDR3
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/180490
Sapphire HD 6870
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/244430
Antec Basiq Power 550W
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/141007
Scythe Shuriken
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/148079

£574.35

If you want crossfire capability (be able to add a second video card later) make these changes:
Gigabyte GA-890GPA-UD3H
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/197546
Corsair 650W TX
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/135514

£605.12




I'm liking this, works out near perfectly on the budget. I'll probably get a mixture of parts from different places, got a smallish component store 10mins away from my house so I'll see what they can do for the same stuff. Definitely going to look into this in more detail.

Thanks for getting the links together, must have taken a little bit of time.
a c 131 à CPUs
November 5, 2010 11:29:56 AM

thehiddenpriest said:
I'm liking this, works out near perfectly on the budget. I'll probably get a mixture of parts from different places, got a smallish component store 10mins away from my house so I'll see what they can do for the same stuff. Definitely going to look into this in more detail.

Thanks for getting the links together, must have taken a little bit of time.

The 955 is also a viable option to save 15 pounds with little to no detriment to performance.
Personally, I'd avoid the antec basiq. I don't have experience with them but I've heard bad things. The earthwatts are their good PSUs. Other than that, OCZ makes some quality PSUs but the corsairs are excellent and can usually handle more than their rating.
November 5, 2010 11:37:58 AM

enzo matrix said:
The 955 is also a viable option to save 15 pounds with little to no detriment to performance.
Personally, I'd avoid the antec basiq. I don't have experience with them but I've heard bad things. The earthwatts are their good PSUs. Other than that, OCZ makes some quality PSUs but the corsairs are excellent and can usually handle more than their rating.



I found a 600w stealth2extreme for £50 currently I have a 400w stealthextreme and I know they're reliable so I think I might go with one of those!

*edit* so fundamentally the only difference between the 955 and 965 is the initial clock speed.. With a little OC'ing that could be ammended right? Or is anything else different? As for power ratings they are both very similar correct?
a c 81 à CPUs
November 5, 2010 12:08:10 PM

They are mostly the same.. The only difference may be that the 965 is surely on a C3 stepping whereas you might get a 955 without a C3 stepping.. Check before you purchase..
November 5, 2010 1:06:52 PM

I'll definately check, just out of curiosity.. I've never bothered to overclock before and as I'm seriously considering it what is a safe increase in a learning how to do it sense.

Anyone know the max the 965 has been OC'd to? and the i5 760 for that matter.
a c 131 à CPUs
November 5, 2010 1:21:15 PM

Emperus said:
They are mostly the same.. The only difference may be that the 965 is surely on a C3 stepping whereas you might get a 955 without a C3 stepping.. Check before you purchase..


Not if you get the 140W version. That would be a C2 stepping 965

thehiddenpriest said:
I'll definately check, just out of curiosity.. I've never bothered to overclock before and as I'm seriously considering it what is a safe increase in a learning how to do it sense.

Anyone know the max the 965 has been OC'd to? and the i5 760 for that matter.


From what I have read:
965: 3.8-4.0GHz
i5: 4.0-4.2GHz

November 5, 2010 1:31:52 PM

enzo matrix said:
Not if you get the 140W version. That would be a C2 stepping 965



From what I have read:
965: 3.8-4.0GHz
i5: 4.0-4.2GHz


Thats not bad. So which version has the C3 stepping? the 125?
a c 81 à CPUs
November 5, 2010 1:36:22 PM

enzo matrix said:
Not if you get the 140W version. That would be a C2 stepping 965


Thanks for the info.. I'll admit that i dint knew that..
a c 131 à CPUs
November 5, 2010 1:46:41 PM

thehiddenpriest said:
Thats not bad. So which version has the C3 stepping? the 125?

Yep. The one good thing is that it's easy to tell which one has which stepping without looking up the model numbers.
November 5, 2010 2:36:02 PM

enzo matrix said:
Yep. The one good thing is that it's easy to tell which one has which stepping without looking up the model numbers.


That's good, so lets say I bought the 125w 965, gtx 460. I'm going for a 500 or 600w PSU. How much would OC'ing strain the power. Cooling won't be a problem as I'll upgrade from stock if I do OC.
a b à CPUs
November 10, 2010 2:20:27 AM

thehiddenpriest said:
That's good, so lets say I bought the 125w 965, gtx 460. I'm going for a 500 or 600w PSU. How much would OC'ing strain the power. Cooling won't be a problem as I'll upgrade from stock if I do OC.


OCing adds a fair amount of power, but you should be ok.



a c 131 à CPUs
November 10, 2010 9:40:48 PM

Quote:
^ That chart above makes the 460 a worse choice than the 6850.........................
Since, the HD6850 OC with voltage increase can keep up with the GTX470
in most games

Uhh what? If you have something that completely contradicts the chart someone already posted, you'd best be ready to post links to your references.
November 11, 2010 1:05:55 AM

My vote is AMD. More bang for buck. Plain and simple. And if you're going to be buying a bulldozer I wouldn't buy anything and just wait unless you're that impatient. It won't be long.
November 11, 2010 8:32:44 AM

Well I went with a 955 & an Asus M488TD-V evo/usb3, it was only £112 compared to £145 for a 965 (just proc prices btw) and to be honest I couldn't justify the extra cash for the small increase in performance. Especially considering I'm probably going to OC it to about 3.6/7Ghz (I don't really want to over do it) as for the graphics I think I'm going to get a GTX460 1gb, not sure what model though. Any recommendations? The asus ones seem pretty nice.

Haven't been able to use it much though - still need to buy the power supply, it's a long wait until Monday when I'm getting it. I ran it to insure it was all working with a 400w PSU I had spare but I don't really want to use that in the long term so I took it apart again. Ran prime95 and a temperature monitor (hwmonitor I believe) just to double check I put the HS on right. It's all good! I know the whole Windows experience score is utter bullshit but I got a 7.3 which I was happy with considering my current pc got around 4.9 in the CPU section. Now it's time to wait until the end of the month for the GFX and next week for the psu. Then it'll be christmas/december paycheck before I get my proper HDD (going with 500gb stripe - currently on an awful 120gb one) optical drive and copy of win7 as all I'm using at the moment is the reinstall disk that came with my dell laptop. (it's still x64 though)

Overall, I'm a happy man.
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
May 2, 2011 9:52:07 AM

(Processor) AMD Phenom II x4 975 black Edition clocked to 4.00GHz

(motherboard) asus xtreme design M4N98TD EVO

(RAM) DDR3 8.00GB

(graphics card's) 2x GeForce GTX 550TI 1GB DDR5 (Sli)

(Power supply unit) XFX PRO 650w core edition

all whats left to do is another 8 GB of ram and im dun :D 
!