Z68 chipset - Logix virtu feature and rear panel video output

[Blues_wolf]

There're many motherboards with the z68 chipset and without a rear panel video output (VGA, HDMI, DVI).

I've been reading about the Logix virtu feature, and it said it allows you to use both the GPU included in second generation i7 processors and the discrete card, but that you needed to connect the monitor to the onboard video output.

Due to the existence of these motherboards without a video output onboard, I gotta ask.

Is it possible to connect the monitor to the discrete card output and still use the virtu feature to use both the discrete card and the GPU in the i7 processor?

Thanks!
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EDIT

OK, I found the answer.

Virtu has now 2 modes of operation.

i-mode: Sets the onboard adapter as the primary one

d-mode: Sets the discrete adapter as the primary one

So, the answer is YES.

There's a way to plug the monitor to the discrete adapter and let virtu forward the intel GPU data to the discrete card output.
And that's the reason why those motherboards doesn't have a video output. But NOT all z68 motherboards support virtu (read answer bellow)

Source: Release notes in:
http://www.lucidlogix.com/driverdownloads-virtu.html
Also: http://techreport.com/discussions.x/20955

Thanks!

 

[Emperus]

To my knowledge, you need to connect to the motherboard's rear output panel to benefit from the integrated video chip. Otherwise it would have been applicable for P67 chip boards also. So if you want to use that feature get a board with rear video output panels.

 

[Blues_wolf]

But how about motherboards like:
GIGABYTE GA-Z68X-UD5-B3
GIGABYTE GA-Z68X-UD7-B3
ASUS P8Z68 DELUXE

They don't have a rear video output, so.. are they unable to use the GPU in the i7 processor for rendering?


Also, from this article:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-z68-express-smart-response-technology-ssd-caching,2938-8.html

"In our earliest preview, Lucidlogix’s Virtu software allowed you to virtualize discrete graphics thorough Intel's HD Graphics frame buffer. This created a whole host of frankly inconvenient caveats. Natively, Intel's output is limited to 1920x1200"
"Lucidlogix addressed all of our concerns in Virtu 1.0.105 by supporting discrete graphics natively, while virtualizing HD Graphics"

I'm not quite sure, but does that mean that now it "sends the i7 GPU output to the discrete card" instead of sending it "from the Discrete card to the i7 GPU"?

 

[Blues_wolf]

OK, I found the answer.

Virtu has now 2 modes of operation.

i-mode: Sets the onboard adapter as the primary one

d-mode: Sets the discrete adapter as the primary one

So, the answer is YES.

There's a way to plug the monitor to the discrete adapter and let virtu forward the intel GPU data to the discrete card output.
And that's the reason why those motherboards doesn't have a video output.

Source: Release notes in:
http://www.lucidlogix.com/driverdownloads-virtu.html
Also: http://techreport.com/discussions.x/20955

Thanks!

 

[Emperus]

I guess you did not understand virtu completely. Anyway, refer to the following review of the Gigabyte motherboard without any video out ports.

www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Gigabyte-Z68X-UD5-B3-Motherboard/1274

 

[jaquith]

i-mode: Sets the onboard adapter as the primary one

d-mode: Sets the discrete adapter as the primary one

There're many motherboards with the z68 chipset and without a rear panel video output (VGA, HDMI, DVI).

So, the answer is YES.

The answer is MOST not ALL Z68's run Virtu. However, of the Z68 MOBO's without external or 'emulated' iGPU e.g. ASUS d-Mode only, MOST of the Gigabyte Z68's without an iGPU 'port' will NOT Virtu. Example, one of many, the GA-Z68X-UD7-B3 will not run Virtu, and only has the SSD cache Z68 added 'extras'.

So in ANY Z68 MOBO purchase, VERIFY VIRTU feature if it's important!

No Virtu:
GA-Z68X-UD5-B3 - http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3848#sp
GA-Z68X-UD7-B3 - http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3847#sp

Emulated internal iGPU to run Virtu:
ASUS P8Z68 DELUXE - http://usa.asus.com/Motherboards/Intel_Socket_1155/P8Z68_DELUXE/#specifications

Good Luck!

 

[Blues_wolf]

ups, yes, you're right... not all motherboards with the z68 chipset support virtu and the SSD caching.
But it's possible.
So thanks!

 

[jaquith]

To that the answer is ALL Z68's offer SSD Caching. Gigabyte decided to confuse the hell out of everyone

 

[Hotobu]

I'd still like a bit more clarification on this.

So if I do get a z68 mobo and use the onboard graphics adapter as the primary one does that mean when I'm gaming it's pretty much just a passthrough for my graphics card?

Also is there any word of Virtu's ability to use the onboard graphics along with a graphics card together to boost performance?

 

[jaquith]

There's two good articles that I've run across that will better answer your questions.

Lucidlogix -> http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/z68-express-lucidlogix-virtu-ssd-caching,2888.html
Virtu -> http://techreport.com/articles.x/20911/2

d-Mode -> http://techreport.com/discussions.x/20955

IMO - other than QuickSync I find no perks to the Z68 for gaming MOBO. An IGPU is 'so' important that the new LGA 2011 SB-E doesn't include any onboard graphics. Further, where the Z68 makes real sense to me if for a fast desktop where gaming isn't needed and the savings of an iGPU is a benefit.

Every benchmark that I've seen the P67 vs Z68 there's do discernable differences.

 

[Hotobu]

Well the main reason it's piqued my interest is the possibility of this to bypass the GPU completely when not gaming. This can mean lower power consumption, lower case temps, and less noise. I read an article here that says that power consumption is higher with both, but it's only higher by 4W, that article was written in Feb., Virtu's still in its infancy, and there's already been a pretty big update apparently.

Thanks for the articles. I'm going to give them a read.

 

[jaquith]

The iGPU i-Mode is your best bet, but keep in mind the discrete GPU under BIOS/Windows defaults are throttled down while not in use. My i7 930 under low load including the monitor is pulling <210W and the Sandy Bridge cuts another 30-40W at the wall. Meaning the CPU and GPU power consumption delta is all dependent upon load i.e. Temps as a correlative to load.

Running e.g. a GTX 560Ti/GTX 570 IMO in i-Mode isn't anything that I would do, I've seen problems {odd behavior/lock-ups/start & shutdown issues, etc} with EPU and many 'abstract' power conserving 'schemes.' I have different PCs for different uses; running my i7 980X 3-WAY SLI is nuts for Goggling and doing 'work.' If you have a good case with good negative pressure air flow then heat isn't a worry. IMO look for cases with at least front/rear plus bottom/top ventilation and side and cpu rear fans are a bonus e.g. CM 690 II Advanced -> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119216

 

[Hotobu]

That's actually the case that I'm going to get. Also Newegg's running a decent combo deal on a 2500K and some GTX560's so right now it looks like I'm going to go with that. If what you're saying is true then I think I may just go with a P67 board. Stepping "up" to the Z68 Asrock Extreme 4 gets me Virtu, but it's cousin the P67 Extreme 6 has two more SATA III ports and dual LAN.

 

[jaquith]

The Marvell SE9120 are not a good chipset for fast SSD's, their x1 lane is much slower than the Intel SATA3 and don't RAID. Only the Marvell 9182 are in par with the Intel SATA3 ports with their x2 lanes, and are found on only a few P67/Z68 MOBOs e.g. ASUS Maximus IV Extreme.

Again, for gaming the Z68 offers no advantages, and the SSD caching is financially useless - get a 120GB SSD it'll be a much better option.

 

[Emperus]

Here's an article which tries to showcase virtu with more simple words -

www.pcper.com/reviews/Processors/Lucid-Virtu-GPU-Virtualization-Software-Review-Sandy-Bridge-and-Discrete-coexist/

 

[Hotobu]

Ah yes very nice. That article just reconfirmed everything that I'd been reading and brought it all together. I'm still not 100% decided though. While I don't encode many videos on my computer right now, things change. It'd be nice to have that feature available when and if my needs change. The only reason I'm not completely sold on the Z68 is the loss of those two SATA ports. I know that 8 is a lo,t and I can definitely manage, but the 10 that come on the ASRock Extreme6 will be perfect.

 

[Hotobu]

Ah yes very nice. That article just reconfirmed everything that I'd been reading and brought it all together. I'm still not 100% decided though. While I don't encode many videos on my computer right now, things change. It'd be nice to have that feature available when and if my needs change. The only reason I'm not completely sold on the Z68 is the loss of those two SATA ports. I know that 8 is a lo,t and I can definitely manage, but the 10 that come on the ASRock Extreme6 will be perfect.

 

[roscolo]

I'm not completely sold on the Z68 is the loss of those two SATA ports. I know that 8 is a lo,t and I can definitely manage, but the 10 that come on the ASRock Extreme6 will be perfect.

Asrock Fatal1ty z68 Professional gen3 should be out in a few days. Has 10 SATA ports. Or the Asrock z68 extreme7 should be out soon and it also has 10 SATA ports. So you get it all: SSD caching, onboard video, virtu, and 10 SATA ports.

 

[Hotobu]

Very cool thanks. Sounds a bit expensive though as I was trying to stay below $200 for the mobo and looking at the pricing structure I'm guessing those will be at least $220. I wont be buying anything for well over a month anyway, so I've still got time to make a decision.

 

[jaquith]

Here's the real issue using the Virtu control panel http://techreport.com/r.x/intel-z68/virtu2.jpg if the game is not listed or available the Virtu won't work in i-Mode so it becomes a maintenance headache and worst no gain.

Next in order to accelerate MPEG-2/4 output your App(s) MUST support Quick Sync or your back to no gains, also if are concerned about quality I suggest you read this article -> http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/video-transcoding-amd-app-nvidia-cuda-intel-quicksync,2839.html

Nothings so cut and dry.

SATA, you can add all the onboard SATA ports you want if you don't care anything about throughput speed. An LGA 1155 with more than 4 or maybe 6 drives gets bogged-down. If you're trying to run 8 or 10 drives then you really should explore a Dedicated SATA Card or Dedicated RAID Card with a minimum x4 and better x8 PCIe, each lane under PCIe 2.x has a 500 MB/s maximum throughput; so 8x150 = 1200 / 500 = 2.4 -> x4 or 8x300 = 2400 / 500 = 4.8 -> x8. The Marvell 912X x1 lane theoretical throughput is 500 MB/s but in reality the 'add-on' aka 'shared lanes' chipset craps-out 360-370 MB/s far from what you'd expect; you can slice a quarter of a pie into as many pieces as you like -- it's still a quarter of a pie just with more crumbs. The moral of the story is assume nothing, and with MOBO's 'more' is often less.

 

[roscolo]

SATA, you can add all the onboard SATA ports you want if you don't care anything about throughput speed.

You hit the nail on the head. Throughput speed not so important to me. I do have a lot of data so a lot of drives, and I like having enough ports to connect 'em to right on the board without having to waste a pci slot. For me, more is better, and 6 don't cut it. Gimme at least 8. Ten? Better.

 

[Hotobu]

Here's the real issue using the Virtu control panel http://techreport.com/r.x/intel-z68/virtu2.jpg if the game is not listed or available the Virtu won't work in i-Mode so it becomes a maintenance headache and worst no gain.

I don't think that's what's going on.

First off the pack in "whitelist" is just a list of games that come preloaded in the program's whitelist. Those are just the .exes that are selected to run on the GPU. If an application's .exe isn't in that list then it runs with integrated graphics. If it is then it runs on the graphics card.

As for SATA I'm with roscolo. Speed isn't my concern there. SSD drives are just a bit more than I'm willing to pay for right now. I'll keep that in mind if I decide to upgrade to one though.

edit:Although in light of that maybe the best solution is just to pay less for the mobo, and put the savings into a SATA card. I was trying to avoid using more PCI slots, but that may be the best solution.

 

[jaquith]

Virtu 'white list' - in many cases games are rendered unplayable unless the game is listed, while under d-Mode or P67 very playable; my point is one of i-Mode vs d-Mode vs 'the list.' The Virtu control panel and virtulization is a nuisance. So if you define 0 FPS to 10FPS 'good' then I retract what I stated.

More SATA Less bandwidth - most would disagree once they see and feel a slowdown. This slowdown also spills over to the USB and other I/O 'shared' by the limited LGA 1155 lanes. So if speed doesn't matter then get an AMD 8XX or AMD 9XX. You can argue 'speed doesn't matter' to point of being silly.

USB Speed -> http://www.anandtech.com/show/4330/asus-p8z68v-review/5
Power & Temps -> http://www.anandtech.com/show/4330/asus-p8z68v-review/4

Again, Gaming use the P67

 

[Hotobu]

I believe you're reading the graph you posted wrong. The first is just with the non integrated GPU, the second is using just the onboard graphics of the processor, and the third is using the whitelist to allow the game to be rendered on the GTX 460 card they used, via the onboard graphics port.

As for the speed doesn't matter argument you're mixing situations. If the only things connected to the SATA ports are HDDS which even at full speed are ~ 60MBps along with 1 or two optical drives which wont be in continuous use, then no speed doesn't matter when you're talking about dividing up 6 and 3 Gbps throuput. It's a rare event (if at all) ALL of them will be used simultaneously. A situation which has no parallels to talking about what processor to buy.

 

[jaquith]

Okay stay with me now, multiple choice question. The graph is used to illustrate a point.

Game 'X' - Virtu Control panel has NO listing. EITHER d-Mode or discrete GTX 460 is 13~55 FPS, and the iGPU is 0~10 FPS.

Question, running in i-Mode what will be the FPS running Virtu?
[A] 13~55 FPS
0~10 FPS

---

SATA if your HDD is running 60MB/s then 'File-13' them they're junk or 8 year old IDE/SATA1 junk. Typical HDD are 120~145 MB/s, now multiply that by the number of drives but in reality an activated SATA port is going to draw/share it's available and allocated bandwidth; the differences are Native and non-Native and how the MOBO Mfg allocates and switches bandwidth. Next, having 10 JBOD is so friggin unusual that it would be bordering on 'crazy' or 'hoarding' and in any case 'wildly obscure.' Having a large RAID with a lot of drives makes sense, but most MOBO's are limited to a 4 drive RAID 5. RAID 5 running without a RAID Card is slow. So if the argument is JBOD then I'm in the crazy-zone and I'm done with this post.

'6 and 3 Gbps' is the Interface and in the HDD world of 1/2 of SATA2 maximum speed, 6 Gbps 'HDD' is a waste anyway you look at it.