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GTS 450 on the way?

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a b U Graphics card
July 23, 2010 12:31:42 PM

Apparently Nvidia are set to release the GTS 450 next month and its gonna work off the GF-106 core. Its set to compete directly with the 5770 so we might start seeing some competition down in the lower performance tiers.

Any thoughts?

More about : gts 450

July 23, 2010 12:56:47 PM

Griffolion said:

Any thoughts?


Perhaps it will improve even more on the GF104? Really, all we can do is wait and see.
a b U Graphics card
July 23, 2010 2:44:53 PM

They do tend to be refinements on previous generations but they will only be for lower end parts. Then i think NV will take all of Fermi's refinements and integrate them into 485/475's. Well at least we can hope that.

We'll have ATI southern islands chips by the end of this year i think, by that logic, NV won't have a full Fermi refresh out till mid 2011 which might be a bit too late!
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a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
July 23, 2010 3:29:31 PM

I wont be surprised if the GTS450 matches the HD5770's performance while drawing more power, while the GTX460 is a lot more efficient than GF100, it still draws more power than HD5850 while performs considerably worse.

But if Nvidia keeps up with the great SLI scaling on the GTS450 it might just be worthwhile.
a b U Graphics card
July 23, 2010 3:36:28 PM

I heard there's a gts455 coming first which will be a gf-104 chip but with lowered clock speeds etc. the 768mb gtx460 has a max power draw of 150w so I'm expecting the gts455 to have less then that. the gts450 should be around 100w, with the gt440 around 75w. they say the gt420 uses 50w, so it seems around right.
a b U Graphics card
July 23, 2010 3:39:43 PM

We can only see what Nvidia comes up with. They've somewhat redeemed themselves with the 460, lets hope they keep it up.
a c 130 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
July 23, 2010 3:59:57 PM

I did post some speculation about this card yesterday in various threads. The 455 is said to be a 460(GF104) with some more crippling while the 450 is said to be a GF106 chip. I have no idea what a GF106 will entail core wise, all that i could find yesterday was that everyone that has any info says it will have a 128 bit bus.
The power is the most interesting thing to me. The 460 depending on who you believe is only a twin PCIE cable card to allow for the overclocking potential of the chip. If this is true then that means that the two cards we are talking about may well have a single connection.
This will mean that the market for the card is expanded quite a bit. While i believe that more people than ever have a PSU capable of powering a 2 cable card, there are still those who are looking to upgrade a shop bought PC which in most cases means a single PCIE cable.
The 460 at its price point in the UK makes the 5770 totally irrelevant, the only issue is the twin power cables. A 4550 with a single 6 pin requirement will make it totally obsolete.
My reasoning is this,the 450 is said to be aimed at the 5770 so I'm assuming that what they will do to the 460 chip to make a 455 wont drop the performance to a point where it no longer bests a 5770 as the 460 does so with consummate ease.
With the prices where they are and ATI refusing on a supply and demand basis to drop the prices of the 5 series chips, they are giving Nvidia way to much wiggle room.
Will Nvidia raise the price of the 460 up to the 5830 and drop the 450 and 455 one bang on top of the 5770 with the other slap in between the two ? Well i sure as hell would.
Well done for letting nvidia back into the game ATI :D 

Mactronix
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
July 23, 2010 4:04:21 PM

mactronix said:
I did post some speculation about this card yesterday in various threads. The 455 is said to be a 460(GF104) with some more crippling while the 450 is said to be a GF106 chip. I have no idea what a GF106 will entail core wise, all that i could find yesterday was that everyone that has any info says it will have a 128 bit bus.
The power is the most interesting thing to me. The 460 depending on who you believe is only a twin PCIE cable card to allow for the overclocking potential of the chip. If this is true then that means that the two cards we are talking about may well have a single connection.
This will mean that the market for the card is expanded quite a bit. While i believe that more people than ever have a PSU capable of powering a 2 cable card, there are still those who are looking to upgrade a shop bought PC which in most cases means a single PCIE cable.
The 460 at its price point in the UK makes the 5770 totally irrelevant, the only issue is the twin power cables. A 4550 with a single 6 pin requirement will make it totally obsolete.
My reasoning is this,the 450 is said to be aimed at the 5770 so I'm assuming that what they will do to the 460 chip to make a 455 wont drop the performance to a point where it no longer bests a 5770 as the 460 does so with consummate ease.
With the prices where they are and ATI refusing on a supply and demand basis to drop the prices of the 5 series chips, they are giving Nvidia way to much wiggle room.
Will Nvidia raise the price of the 460 up to the 5830 and drop the 450 and 455 one bang on top of the 5770 with the other slap in between the two ? Well i sure as hell would.
Well done for letting nvidia back into the game ATI :D 

Mactronix

WHUT?
The 5770 is £40 cheaper than the GTX460, while the 5830 is £10 more.
a c 130 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
July 23, 2010 4:30:59 PM

@Timop,
Would you care to put some prices to that statement ? If im wrong then fine but at the prices i have seen the 460 is only £25 more than a 5770 and the reviews show it getting a kicking. Worth £25 all day long to me.
Sure its all speculation but i cant see the 455, sorry not 4550 (my bad) being worse in performance than a 5770 while also being dearer than a 460. Can you ?
The 460 is a better card than a 5830 so the price of the 5830 unless its below the 460 really isnt relevant in this context.
Also i realise now that i didnt point out the two differant versions of the card, 768 and 1GB. When ii was refering to the 5770 i was looking at a 768 card.
Sorry my bad for not being clearer. In my defense im rushing a bit as im cooking at the same time. :D 


Mactronix
a b U Graphics card
July 23, 2010 4:43:09 PM

i sure hope the gts 455 is cheaper then the 5770. i also hope that nvidia put out a low profile card to compete with the low profile 5770/5750/5670.
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
July 23, 2010 4:46:22 PM

mactronix said:
@Timop,
Would you care to put some prices to that statement ? If im wrong then fine but at the prices i have seen the 460 is only £25 more than a 5770 and the reviews show it getting a kicking. Worth £25 all day long to me.
Sure its all speculation but i cant see the 455, sorry not 4550 (my bad) being worse in performance than a 5770 while also being dearer than a 460. Can you ?
The 460 is a better card than a 5830 so the price of the 5830 unless its below the 460 really isnt relevant in this context.
Also i realise now that i didnt point out the two differant versions of the card, 768 and 1GB. When ii was refering to the 5770 i was looking at a 768 card.
Sorry my bad for not being clearer. In my defense im rushing a bit as im cooking at the same time. :D 


Mactronix

I'm not in the UK, so Im pretty limited information wise, but heres the ones I found:

HD 5770: £119 http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/512MB-Asus-HD-5770-PCI-E...(x16)-4800MHz-GDDR5-GPU-850MHz-800-Cores-DL-DVI-I-HDMI-D-Sub

GTX460: £150 http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/768MB-Inno-3D-GTX-460-36...

HD5830: £158 http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/1GB-XFX-HD-5830-4000MHz-...

£31 difference, I think that would be something significant.

Besides, the 5830 only performs 5% behind the 768M GTX460 while draws a bit less power, and most comes with freebies like a game or so, so I think its not horrible deal.

(But to note, UK prices are bad compared to American ones, here the 5830 is ~$20 cheaper than the 460, while the 5770 is ~$130 AR)

a c 130 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
July 23, 2010 5:29:16 PM

Your not comparing like with like you have a cheaper 512mb 5770 there for a start so you need to stick another £10 on for that and the 5830 while it doesn't mention it i can assure you is a limited special offer and as such i didn't think it fair to include it. So if you take that out of the equation your talking £185
That gives you.
HD 5770: £129
GTX460: £150
HD5830: £185
These are more realistic prices as they are widely available and much more the norm. Even at the prices you listed its still a no brainer. The 460 is so much better than a 5770 that even £31 is well worth it and its still a better card than the 5830 even if there was no price difference the 460 would be the sensible option.

Why are the prices bad because i can get a 460 cheaper than you can ? Even at $20 cheaper i would still get a 460 and i promise you I'm ATI through and through . I have never used an Nvidia product before but this price/performance point is very very tempting .
I like you can only go on my local pricing and as it is the 460 is all over made of win.

Mactronix
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
July 23, 2010 5:34:51 PM

mactronix said:
Your not comparing like with like you have a cheaper 512mb 5770 there for a start so you need to stick another £10 on for that and the 5830 while it doesn't mention it i can assure you is a limited special offer and as such i didn't think it fair to include it. So if you take that out of the equation your talking £185
That gives you.
HD 5770: £129
GTX460: £150
HD5830: £185
These are more realistic prices as they are widely available and much more the norm. Even at the prices you listed its still a no brainer. The 460 is so much better than a 5770 that even £31 is well worth it and its still a better card than the 5830 even if there was no price difference the 460 would be the sensible option.

Why are the prices bad because i can get a 460 cheaper than you can ? Even at $20 cheaper i would still get a 460 and i promise you I'm ATI through and through . I have never used an Nvidia product before but this price/performance point is very very tempting .
I like you can only go on my local pricing and as it is the 460 is all over made of win.

Mactronix

No its because you I can get a 5770/5830 for cheaper than you can.

In fact, the GTX260 is only $200 in the US, while £150 =$231.
a c 130 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
July 23, 2010 5:42:22 PM

Yes yes very good but its all relative though isnt it. :) 

Mactronix
a b U Graphics card
July 23, 2010 5:42:30 PM

things might be different in the UK, but heres the average cards:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168... (5770 @ 150$)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168... (5830 @ 200$)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168... (768mb 460 @ 200$)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168... (1 gig 460 @ 230$)

the 460 is at an amazing price point, and give great performance, but its definitely not a no brainer over the 5770.
a c 130 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
July 23, 2010 5:45:36 PM

Agreed at your prices its not but again i can only go on my own pricing and situation cant I ?

Mactronix
a b U Graphics card
July 23, 2010 5:57:41 PM

correct, im just saying here, its not as clear cut. however wherever you go, IMO, the 5830 needs to be retired or dropped in price dramatically. maybe they can make a new and improved 5790 to do something against the 460.
a c 130 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
July 23, 2010 6:04:56 PM

Couldnt agree more, the card seemed to be a stop gap way of using borked cores anyway. I have yet to see anything concrete but i did hear that the SI cards they were putting out would be aimed at teh 5770 and 5830 area anyway so the next couple of months should be interesting.

Mactronix
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
July 23, 2010 6:08:17 PM

retiring the 5830 would be stupid, dropping it to $179 would be smarter, without the 5830, 20% of Cypress chips would have to go to the dumpster.
a b U Graphics card
July 23, 2010 6:09:29 PM

yeah. ATI blanketed every spot on the market, except for the most important spot, the 200$ range. Then they just put a lousy 5830 there. NV WOULD be in some serious trouble if the 5830 was just a slightly downgraded 5850, but its more of a +5% to the 5770.
a b U Graphics card
July 23, 2010 6:10:45 PM

Timop said:
retiring the 5830 would be stupid, dropping it to $179 would be smarter, without the 5830, 20% of Cypress chips would have to go to the dumpster.


true, however to be honest, even at 180$ id still buy the 460. then id look at benchmarks and see how the 1 gig version is quite a bit better and buy the one gig for 230$.
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
July 23, 2010 6:17:07 PM

ares1214 said:
true, however to be honest, even at 180$ id still buy the 460. then id look at benchmarks and see how the 1 gig version is quite a bit better and buy the one gig for 230$.


Quit thinking the 5830 is that bad, lookie here, http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Zotac/GeForce_GTX_46...

5% worse than the 768MB version, while 10% worse than the 1GB, while it draws 8W less power.

Honestly I think AMDs better off putting the effort on releasing the 1120SP HD6770 around November that beats the GTX460, rather than tweaking the existing Cypress/Juniper settings.
a b U Graphics card
July 23, 2010 7:59:22 PM

not where i see it:







it goes on pretty far.



a b U Graphics card
July 23, 2010 8:50:42 PM

hmm if thats the case then would that mean the gts455 would be around 5830 performance for even less money. nvidia could be onto something here.
a b U Graphics card
July 23, 2010 8:57:26 PM

the 455 should be around 5830, +-5%. no idea on price though.
a c 130 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
July 23, 2010 9:40:24 PM

I would think a bit below the 5830 but at the price the 5770 is now with the 450 being around the performance of the 5770 but cheaper than that card is now.
latest rumour i read says the 450 at least will be single power cable required. that card is said to be the GF106 chip which will be half of a full GF104 so thats 192 cores.
The 455 is a bit more tricky to work out/ speculate upon. Hopefully it will just be a 460 with 48 more cores shut down. The problem is that with the huge OC potential of the chip i would guess they may put it on a 128 bit bus to distance it from the 460.

Mactronix
a c 130 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
July 23, 2010 9:45:08 PM

The above of course is pure speculation on my part, i think its worth mentioning that some are reporting both the 450 and 455 being GF106 chips. If this is correct then things performance wise would be very differant.
Just though i should mention it

Mactronix
a b U Graphics card
July 23, 2010 9:51:10 PM

455 was suppost to be on GF104, and 450 is suppost to be on GF106.
a c 164 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
July 23, 2010 9:51:12 PM

Seeing as no one has brought it up, there is that PCB photo floating around on the net now. Supposed to be the GTS450, but now hearing about the GTS455 I think it could be that. The 450 is supposed to have a 128bit bus with 1GB of ram. The photo shows 6 chips and not 8 however. If there is a cut down 768MB GTS455 coming its probably that.

Considering the 768MB GTS460 ~ 5830, I don't see a more cut down card hitting the 5830 +- 5%. It will definitely be under, the question is how much are they going to cut? The GTS460 has 7 of the 8 cells enabled, if the GTS455 comes with 6 enabled it should be close. Clock speeds will make the difference.
a b U Graphics card
July 23, 2010 9:59:53 PM

the 5830 loses to the 768MB 460 by about 5-7%.
a c 130 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
July 23, 2010 10:09:02 PM

4745454b said:
Seeing as no one has brought it up, there is that PCB photo floating around on the net now. Supposed to be the GTS450, but now hearing about the GTS455 I think it could be that. The 450 is supposed to have a 128bit bus with 1GB of ram. The photo shows 6 chips and not 8 however. If there is a cut down 768MB GTS455 coming its probably that.

Considering the 768MB GTS460 ~ 5830, I don't see a more cut down card hitting the 5830 +- 5%. It will definitely be under, the question is how much are they going to cut? The GTS460 has 7 of the 8 cells enabled, if the GTS455 comes with 6 enabled it should be close. Clock speeds will make the difference.


Yes that's what is all up in the air, do they have less cores and more clock speed etc etc etc? keep more cores, six i would think and up the clock speed but on a 128bit bus would be my bet.
lots of variations that could happen and i think we have talked it around in enough circles for now.
Im off to wait a few weeks and see what comes.

Mactronix :) 
a b U Graphics card
July 24, 2010 10:29:39 AM

yeh thats what im thinking aswell. maybe up to 10fps lower in games at most.
a b U Graphics card
July 24, 2010 11:23:00 AM

10 fps games lower? you mean 10 fps games higher. More than than 10 too, and crysis is almost as low as the god, so they would only be higher.
a b U Graphics card
July 24, 2010 12:51:39 PM

are you talking about that it oc's extremely well? i already saw that.
a b U Graphics card
July 24, 2010 1:08:12 PM

ares1214 said:
10 fps games lower? you mean 10 fps games higher. More than than 10 too, and crysis is almost as low as the god, so they would only be higher.


i was saying that the gts455 would be 10fps lower at most compared to the gtx460. i should have stated that sorry.
!