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650 Budget Gaming

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August 27, 2010 2:22:22 PM

Hello all,

I am thinking of helping a friend build a Budget Gaming PC. Please find the details below.

APPROXIMATE PURCHASE DATE: This coming month

BUDGET RANGE: Aiming for around 700 (before rebates) - Although lower is always better. Basically pure FPS/$.

SYSTEM USAGE FROM MOST TO LEAST IMPORTANT: Gaming

PARTS NOT REQUIRED: keyboard, mouse, monitor, speakers, OS

PREFERRED WEBSITE(S) FOR PARTS: Newegg (just for reference)

COUNTRY OF ORIGIN: Western Europe (can get parts from nearly everywhere in W Europe)

PARTS PREFERENCES: None

OVERCLOCKING: Maybe

SLI OR CROSSFIRE: In the future (see additional comments)

MONITOR RESOLUTION: 1920x1080

ADDITIONAL COMMENTS: I will likely build the PC, but I am not going to be doing many upgrades to it. My friend is more the buy optimal fps/$ now and do the same every ~ 3 years.

The idea I had was the following:
As good a gaming PC as possible now with 1x DirectX 11 supporting Gfx card which could be SLI/XFired down the line if needed.
All the rest will likely remain the same until the system dies (barring necessary replacements due to hardware a hardware death).

There are a few basic requirements I am hoping to meet:
7.1 Audio
Seeing as we will not upgrade much, or at all this system should last with at most 1 Gfx card added over the next ~3 years (meaning games now and to come at high settings, currently it is the likes of Starcraft 2, Bioshock 1/2, Arkham Asylum, etc).
We already have Win 7 x64 Pro.

The system I was thinking of:
At the price point I assume we are talking AMD?
I am not too knowledgeable about the AMD MoBos and CPUs but I saw this listed on another post here:
ASRock 870 Extreme3
Is there something I am missing? At the price it is at it seems to be too good to be true, DDR3, USB 3.0, 2 Cards in XFire (x8/x8) and 7.1 Audio

Also, my friend found the following Prebuilt for 670:
GIGABYTE GA-890GPA-UD3H AM3 AMD 890GX HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard
4 GB 1333 RAM
1Gig GTS250 PCX
750 Watt PSU
Coolermaster Cent. 534
500 Gig HDD
DVD burner

I am most worried about the unknown quality of the parts, but unless someone here sees a big no-no with the above system I will enquire to see which make the PSU/RAM/etc are.

All in all, am I shooting too high here with the price vs expectations or can something be done?

More about : 650 budget gaming

August 27, 2010 2:31:05 PM

It's probably going to be something like this:

Athlon II X3 445
4GB DDR3 1333MHz
socket 785G mobo (Either ASUS or Gigabyte)
ATi 5750
500GB Spinpoint F3 HDD
Antec 500W Earthwatts PSU
Antec 300 case
ASUS DVD burner

Right now i'm in a hurry, i can't post links, but all the parts should be on Newegg.
August 27, 2010 5:12:56 PM

Im worried about ASRock right now. They split from Asustek and are now a subsidiary of Pegatron. The quality and service is highly questionable to me until they build a track record.

Unknown has a decent parts list. I would spend a few dollars more and get a 5770 instead of a 5750 or 250. Its roughly 50% faster and is often less than $35 price difference.

Antec Neo Eco 520W PSU I think is a better deal right now.

Get a Gigabyte or ASUS 870, 880 or 890 motherboard with USB3/SATA 6GB ($80-90 for single graphics card, $100-125 for x8/x8 crosssfire)

Look at the Antec 300 illusion at newegg. Its often the same price as the 300 black but includes two front LED fans.
Related resources
a b 4 Gaming
August 27, 2010 6:05:06 PM

if you don't need SATA 3 or USB 3, there is a combo deal with both the X3 440 and 445 with a Biostar 770 E3 board, which is a generation old (2009) but very servicable. a Gigabyte version of the 770 with USB3 and SATA 3 is about $80
August 27, 2010 6:07:01 PM

ScrewySqrl said:
if you don't need SATA 3 or USB 3, there is a combo deal with both the X3 440 and 445 with a Biostar 770 E3 board, which is a generation old (2009) but very servicable. a Gigabyte version of the 770 with USB3 and SATA 3 is about $80


Can't you get a ASUS or Gigabyte board with at least a 785G chipset?? Only take Biostar if you have no more money to spare.
a b 4 Gaming
August 27, 2010 6:11:17 PM

unknown_13 said:
Can't you get a ASUS or Gigabyte board with at least a 785G chipset?? Only take Biostar if you have no more money to spare.



you can. the price on DDR3 770s runs $49 (ECS) to $79 (Gigabyte & Asus). the price on DDR3 785s is $69 (Biostar) to $89 (Asus). With very little performance difference.
August 27, 2010 6:16:12 PM

ScrewySqrl said:
you can. the price on DDR3 770s runs $49 (ECS) to $79 (Gigabyte & Asus). the price on DDR3 785s is $69 (Biostar) to $89 (Asus). With very little performance difference.


OK then... let us see the the final setup:) 
a b 4 Gaming
August 27, 2010 8:34:00 PM

ok:

Rana x3 445 and biostar 770 e3 combo, $110.98
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite...

Zotec Geforce GTX 460 w/ free Starcraft Trial and Free copy of Just Cause 2: $219.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite...

Rosewill Challenger case and Liteon 22x DVD burner: 70.98
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite...

Spinpoint F3 500GB and OCZ 550W Fatal1ty: $99.98
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite...

4 GB DDR3 1333 RAM: 77.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

$508.94 plus shipping.
August 27, 2010 8:56:03 PM

That's nice:D 
August 28, 2010 4:37:23 AM

unknown_13 said:
It's probably going to be something like this:

Athlon II X3 445
4GB DDR3 1333MHz
socket 785G mobo (Either ASUS or Gigabyte)
ATi 5750
500GB Spinpoint F3 HDD
Antec 500W Earthwatts PSU
Antec 300 case
ASUS DVD burner

Right now i'm in a hurry, i can't post links, but all the parts should be on Newegg.



sorry but no.. these products are not the best that he can get with his money..
Case: 39.99$ (Rosewill CHALLENGER Black Gaming ATX Mid Tower Computer Case ,comes with Three Fans-1x Front Blue LED 120mm Fan, 1x Top 140mm Fan, 1x Rear 120mm Fan, option Fans-2x Side 120mm Fan)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Power supply: 59.99$ (Antec NEO ECO 520C 520W Continuous Power ATX12V v2.3 / EPS12V 80 PLUS Certified)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Moutherboard: 84.99$ (ASUS M4A785T-M/CSM AM3 AMD 785G HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Hard Drive: 54.99$ (SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD502HJ 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Dvd-Rom: 21.99$ (ASUS Black 24X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 12X DVD+R DL 24X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 12X DVD-RAM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2MB Cache SATA 24X DVD Burner - Bulk - OEM)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Ram: 81.98$ 4GB of ram (Rendition by Crucial 2GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10600) Desktop Memory Model RM25664BA1339) Got 2
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Cpu: 107.99$ (AMD Athlon II X4 640 Propus 3.0GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache Socket AM3 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Gpu: 159.99$ (XFX HD-577A-ZNFC Radeon HD 5770 (Juniper XT) 1GB 128-bit GDDR5)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Shipping: 30$ not the real cost but a good estimate

Total: 642$
August 28, 2010 12:29:23 PM

Thanks for the replies everyone.

I reviewed all of the parts and they generally all look good. I have defiantly decided on going for an x8/x8 MoBo with a single Gfx card now, with the option to add a second in the near future.

There are 2 things I would like to settle before deciding on and buying the hardware:

1. Since I will eventually go for 2x Cards, the Processor/2x Gfx Card combination should be as high as possible with minimal bottle-necking (for the price). I am not sure on how to check that...
Taking Jdwii's recommendation of an AMD Athlon II x4 640 and a 5770, would that CPU run fine with 2x 5770s in the future?

2. From what we see from today's and future games would a 5770 or 2 offer playable frame rates at 1080p with medium-high settings?
I know this is difficult to foresee, but in terms of longevity I prefer to recommend my friend spend another 50 now (for example on an 5830) than have to buy a whole new Gfx card in a year.


a b 4 Gaming
August 28, 2010 1:13:51 PM

at 1920x1080, a GTX 460 is probably the better choice of card. that does make getting 2 cards trickier in a budget build. a NForce 750i board with SATA 2, USB 2, and 8x/8x SLI is $99.99, and the first reliable 8x/8x Crossfire board with DDR3 is $89.99

MSI $99 SLI board:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Asus $99 SLI Board:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...


Asus Crossfire 8x/8x board,AMD 870 chipset: $89.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

The NVIdia boards ae a generation older, with only Sata II and USB 2.0, the Crossfire board has Sata II and USB 3.0


2 5770s will do pretty well
a b 4 Gaming
August 28, 2010 1:19:49 PM

this particular combo is $500.99 after rebates:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?I...

It has a SLI x3 capable board, you just have to add the cards. Now a GTX 460 is only capable of dual SLI, so one slot would go to waste unless you wanted to do a now mostly-useless PhysX card as well.

But it does make a single GTX 460 build $589 or $619 with the Zotec combos that includes a free copy of Just Cause 2 (768 MB or 1 GB)
August 28, 2010 1:35:17 PM

ScrewySqrl said:
ok:

Rana x3 445 and biostar 770 e3 combo, $110.98
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite...

Zotec Geforce GTX 460 w/ free Starcraft Trial and Free copy of Just Cause 2: $219.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite...

Rosewill Challenger case and Liteon 22x DVD burner: 70.98
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite...

Spinpoint F3 500GB and OCZ 550W Fatal1ty: $99.98
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite...

4 GB DDR3 1333 RAM: 77.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

$508.94 plus shipping.

hi i had a few questions i wanted to ask about this build :
how long would it last in the future?
is it future proofed?
also if you playing at 1280 x 1024 would the gpu be overkill?
a b 4 Gaming
August 28, 2010 2:04:47 PM

at 1280x1024 (or the very similar 1440x900) that build can run Crysis at maxxed resolutions

Its a great build for a 1680x1050 monitor as well, with Crysis in the 40 fps range.

As for futureproofing. The system, as is, will play any game out now or coming in the next 2-3 years at great resolutions (up to 1920x1080, at very high settings). As an AMD AM3 chipset, it ill be able to upgrade to the first generation of Bulldozer chips next year, which would mean another year to three years.
August 28, 2010 2:09:00 PM

thank you fo replying, that's a pretty good inexpensive build with the 460.
August 29, 2010 11:11:54 AM

Thanks for the replies all, here are my current list of supplies with prices (note I am in Europe, prices are similar to the states, but combo deals and rebates will not work):

HDD: Samsung Spinpoint F3 59.90

Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST 23.30

PSU: Corsair 550W (550VX) 65.90

RAM: G.Skill NT DDR3 4GB Kit DDR3-1333MHz CAS9 88.60

This is what I have so far. The total cost 237.70 without a Case, Mobo, CPU and Gfx Card. Shipping is really minimal here (take under 15 for all items put together).
Sadly, I can not seem to fine Rosewill cases here... I will send a few mails to some stores to see if they can get it and what price (the same with the antec illusion).

If we assume we are going for an Nvidia 460 we can add another ~200 bringing it up to ~440 without case, Mobo and CPU. What would be the ideal CPU in this price range to minimize bottle necks from eventual dual 460s (@1080p)?
Same with an SLI (2 way) Mobo (only needs to support up to 1333 speed RAM).

August 29, 2010 11:24:13 AM

joey24 said:
Thanks for the replies all, here are my current list of supplies with prices (note I am in Europe, prices are similar to the states, but combo deals and rebates will not work):

HDD: Samsung Spinpoint F3 59.90

Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST 23.30

PSU: Corsair 550W (550VX) 65.90

RAM: G.Skill NT DDR3 4GB Kit DDR3-1333MHz CAS9 88.60

This is what I have so far. The total cost 237.70 without a Case, Mobo, CPU and Gfx Card. Shipping is really minimal here (take under 15 for all items put together).
Sadly, I can not seem to fine Rosewill cases here... I will send a few mails to some stores to see if they can get it and what price (the same with the antec illusion).

If we assume we are going for an Nvidia 460 we can add another ~200 bringing it up to ~440 without case, Mobo and CPU. What would be the ideal CPU in this price range to minimize bottle necks from eventual dual 460s (@1080p)?
Same with an SLI (2 way) Mobo (only needs to support up to 1333 speed RAM).


Well, anything below PII X4 9xx or i5-7xx will bottleneck 2x GTX460's, and the best CPU in your price range is the Athlon X3 445 or the X4 620.
a b 4 Gaming
August 29, 2010 2:25:18 PM

joey24 said:
Thanks for the replies all, here are my current list of supplies with prices (note I am in Europe, prices are similar to the states, but combo deals and rebates will not work):

HDD: Samsung Spinpoint F3 59.90

Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST 23.30

PSU: Corsair 550W (550VX) 65.90

RAM: G.Skill NT DDR3 4GB Kit DDR3-1333MHz CAS9 88.60

This is what I have so far. The total cost 237.70 without a Case, Mobo, CPU and Gfx Card. Shipping is really minimal here (take under 15 for all items put together).
Sadly, I can not seem to fine Rosewill cases here... I will send a few mails to some stores to see if they can get it and what price (the same with the antec illusion).

If we assume we are going for an Nvidia 460 we can add another ~200 bringing it up to ~440 without case, Mobo and CPU. What would be the ideal CPU in this price range to minimize bottle necks from eventual dual 460s (@1080p)?
Same with an SLI (2 way) Mobo (only needs to support up to 1333 speed RAM).




You won't be able to find a Rosewill Case outside of Newegg. It's their house brand. the Antec and cooler master cases are available in europe though.


If you are looking to SLI, the question is are you going with the NForce 750i or 980i? ($99 vs $139), Assuming you stick with the 750i for ~$100, thats $540 without CPU or Case. I'll assume $50 for a case, so that's $590.

an Athlon II X3 440/445 will be $70-85 with that, so maxes out at $675.
An Athlon II X4 635/640 runs $99-106. That maxes you out at $696
a Phenom II X3 740BE is $89, but needs a heatsink, a basic one would be about $10, so that comes out to $690. The X3s are hard to find, however.
a Phenom II X4 955 is ~$150, so that would max you out at $740
a Phenom II x6 1055T is ~$200, so max there is $790
a Phenom II x6 1090T is ~$300, so max there is $890
August 29, 2010 2:29:11 PM

The "i" nForce chipsets are meant to be paired with Intel CPU's.
August 29, 2010 2:54:12 PM

Alright, that brings us back to the dual 5770 setup then. One now, and one if needed in 6 months-year.
The 5830 is as expensive as the 460 over here (give or take a few %).

The 1 gig 5770s run 150-170, vs the 200-220 460/5830s.

I also assume an Xfire AMD MoBo is slightly lest costly than an SLI one?

What kind of processor would minimize bottle necks on this?

And should I recommend he get a 1680x1050 Screen instead then (if he wants to play at higher settings).
a b 4 Gaming
August 29, 2010 4:04:13 PM

joey24 said:
Alright, that brings us back to the dual 5770 setup then. One now, and one if needed in 6 months-year.
The 5830 is as expensive as the 460 over here (give or take a few %).

The 1 gig 5770s run 150-170, vs the 200-220 460/5830s.

I also assume an Xfire AMD MoBo is slightly lest costly than an SLI one?

What kind of processor would minimize bottle necks on this?

And should I recommend he get a 1680x1050 Screen instead then (if he wants to play at higher settings).



the 5770 can handle 1920x1080, the 460s just do it better, you won't be able to do max settings at that Rez. a nice comparson between the GTX 460 and 5770 is available at Tom' review of the 460 when it came out
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-460-gf1...


For 8x/8x SLI or Crossfire with AMD, the price difference is actually pretty small:

SLI, $99 for the 750a chipset
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Crossfire: $89 for 870 chipset.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

the 870 however has USB3 and SATA3, and the 750a has SATA 2 and USB 2. you won't notice SATA 3 vs SATA 2 right now, except with the most espensive SSD hard drives andyou rent getting one), but USB 3 vs 2 you might notice.

as for bottlenecks, a Athlon II X3 440 or any fastre chip won't bottleneck a 5770 OR a 460.
August 29, 2010 6:08:37 PM

Ok then, adding to my previous price of 237.70, and +50 for a case when I find one we get the following:

Asrock 870 Extreme3 85.10
Sapphire HD5770 1GB GDDR5 146.60

This setup is 519.40 without CPU

Setting the price limit at ~650 we could manage a AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition for 141.80

Asus M4N75TD 88.30
Gigabyte GV-N460OC-1GI GTX 460 208.90

This setup is 584.90 without CPU

Setting the price limit at ~650 probably leaves us with a Athlon II X3 440 with the SLI setup for 75.80.

What would be the better deal?
a b 4 Gaming
August 29, 2010 10:04:55 PM

in terms of performance across a spread of games, the X3 440 or 445 with the 460 will do better, especially since that is a factory overclocked card
August 29, 2010 10:53:58 PM

Not sure if I should post in your thread or make another, but I'll post here since we have almost the exact same goal in mind. So far this is what I have for about 620$ and looks like a beast system with a bit of tinkering.

Case: Antec Three Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 60$

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Mobo: ASRock 870 EXTREME3 AM3 AMD 870 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard 90$

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

CPU: AMD Phenom II X2 555 Black Edition Callisto 3.2GHz 2 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache Socket AM3 80W Dual-Core Desktop Processor - C3 Revision HDZ555WFGMBOX 90$

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

GPU: SAPPHIRE Vapor-X 100283VX-2L Radeon HD 5770 (Juniper XT) 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card w/ Eyefinity 133$ (combo deal with the CPU)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Memory: G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-4GBRL 93$

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

HDD: SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD502HJ 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive 55$

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

PSU: Antec EarthWatts EA650 650W Continuous Power ATX12V Ver.2.2 / EPS12V version 2.91 SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC "compatible with Core i7/Core i5" Power Supply 80$

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Total 614$

Now for a couple of questions. I have been researching a few hours a day for the past week, but this is my first time building a computer. (Thankfully I have a few experienced friends to help with the actual assembly). I already have a monitor/mouse/keyboard/speakers/OS... am I missing anything lol?

I plan to Unlock the other 2 cores on the Phenom II x2 CPU, there seems to be a pretty high success rate. Assuming I can unlock the other 2 cores will I need a new cooling system for the processor? Also assuming the cores are defective and I have to stick with 2 cores will the processor still be able to play most games in the immediate future?

The only upgrade I plan on making in the future is to crossfire another 5770 if the need arises, that is why the PSU is 650W.

Any thoughts on how to get more bang for the buck or if any of these parts really suck would be helpful. I plan on purchasing all of this in <1 week.
August 29, 2010 11:12:26 PM

oops sorry didn't read that you were going to unlock it. sorry.
a b 4 Gaming
August 29, 2010 11:13:33 PM

phat: best to create a new thread usually, but that looks pretty decent. Look for combos to reduce your costs. I'd recommend the cheaper Athlon II X3 445 over the Phenom II X2 555, just because the 3 core is better if you fail to unlock more cores. Unlocking is a roll of the dice.

August 30, 2010 11:40:15 AM

Thanks for the help everyone! And thanks for the recommendation Phatshady but we are going for the no-tinkering route.

We will go for the items listed previously:
Quote:
HDD: Samsung Spinpoint F3 59.90

Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST 23.30

PSU: Corsair 550W (550VX) 65.90

RAM: G.Skill NT DDR3 4GB Kit DDR3-1333MHz CAS9 88.60

And the 460 GTX route:
MoBo: Asus M4N75TD 88.30

Gfx Card: Gigabyte GV-N460OC-1GI GTX 460 208.90

And managed to convince my friend to go a bit over 700 for the addition of the:
CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 945 with C3 stepping revision 131.80

For a total of 666.70 without a ~50 case (which will likely end up as an Antec 300 unless I find something better for less).

Again, thanks for all of the help here. And if anyone can see anything wrong or improvements please mention it(like a better MoBo for the same price). I will be price tweaking by checking some shops/online shops in the coming week but after that I will buy.

P.S. The 550W power supply should be sufficient for eventual 2x 460Gtxs with a draw of ~150 each?
a b 4 Gaming
August 30, 2010 12:21:53 PM

the techspot review of 460s in SLI gives a 447w usage in Furmark. However, thats in a bare board configuration (no case, or case fan, no USB devices)

The 550 will probly manage, but to be safe, I'd suggest a 600W
!