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Is this normal of AMD Phenom X4?

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November 17, 2010 6:52:45 AM

I went and upgraded my mobo and CPU to an AMD Phenom X4 9750 2.4Ghz 4MB CPU (95W) with a Cooler Master Hyper 101A Direct Contact CPU Cooler. Everything works fine and all, but I'm a little worried about what I'm seeing off of Speedfan, and I've always been worried about overheating since last year.

Thing is, I see the "Core" temp fluctuate extremely randomly. It could go from 58 to 63 in a matter of seconds then back again, as if it's not sure WHAT the temp actually is. It will actually go up to 70 or 72 (its highest), yet, nothing out of the ordinary happens (this was just watching videos). I have looked at other programs, but Everest is not easy for me to use (what actually SHOWS you the temps? I've looked everywhere on that program). Furthermore, the "Temp 2" and "Temp 3" showings on Speedfan are showing me a NEGATIVE temp (-55 and -128 respectively, and Speedfan considers that chilled). I don't know if this is cause for concern or if I'm looking at the right temp or am I just being paranoid again or what (I'm still somewhat new at this machine building stuff, as this is the first time I hooked up a mono without the PSU blowing up on me somehow).

Can someone please lend me some advice on what this could be (and where you find the temps on Everest)?

More about : normal amd phenom

November 17, 2010 7:01:53 AM

Am I looking at the right temp, though? I remember when I had the single core Athlon that I was using Speedfan, and there was a different heading for the temp that I was reading (CPU or something like that). I don't remember the heading being "Core". But I could be wrong.
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November 17, 2010 7:19:48 AM

You can only get temperature readings in Everest Ultimate Edition..First go and find the trial version..Speedfan has to be the most worst program at measuring temp..I once got 583 C reading at temp 3( my graphic card)..
http://download.cnet.com/Everest-Ultimate-Edition/3000-...
here is the site for the download..
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November 17, 2010 7:29:44 AM

Yeah, I found the trial version. Didn't know they put the temps in the pay version (which I think is silly as some other programs give that to you for free, albeit you saying that about Speedfan).

I have a "Temp 1" that says 60 right now, though to Speedfan, the 3 undefined temps refer to "IT872F-J", whatever that is. The "Core" is "AMD K10", which I assume IS the processor (which would have me worrying again because that's going back and forth so much that I don't know if it's really accurate and why I'm getting such an erratic reading if so). I did everything I was supposed to do to the processor (paste & sink install). Hopefully I don't have to go into the case and fix anything.

EDIT: The trial version won't launch because it "requires elevation". :??: 
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November 17, 2010 9:36:49 AM

Okay, I've used CoreTemp, and it's giving me a 80c temp for the cores, which now I KNOW that cannot be. It went from a steady 50 to an erratic 80? What's going on here? It's a new mobo ( ECS A740GM-M (V7.0) AMD 740G Socket AM2+ MB ). Thing is, I'm not seeing or sensing anything wrong with anything yet. The temp just keeps going up and down like a yo-yo. I'm kind of scared to try to play a game on here since the temp goes up extremely quick. I have one fan on the heatsink (there's an option to add a second one, but I think you have to get that separately, since it only came with one fan already attached). I already tried Mass Effect, and it went from 49 to 65 in a matter of half a minute (which I KNOW cannot be normal).

This is TWO programs that I've seen the same sporadic temp readings, and now I'm really concerned that I did something wrong.

EDIT: In the time it took me to type this up, my temp went down from 80 to near 60. It went past what I read would've caused the processor to take action against overheating (shut down). This is twice now it did that.

Could running two temp readout programs do that, too? I was running Speedfan AND CoreTemp simultaneously, and at times, Everest and Speedfan, and Speedfan and Sensorsview (okay, I think it's needless to say how paranoid I am if I'm using all of these programs at once).
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November 17, 2010 10:32:26 AM

I dont think temp should be that much of a problem..I have used alot of temperature reading software and i cant find an average between them..But if you want to have the most accurate one i will recommend you..
is pc wizard or everest..I myself really cant find an average temperature reading for my hardware..Why not ask an OC community at what CpU temperature monitor software they use?
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November 17, 2010 10:58:23 AM

I didn't think of doing that since I never had any intentions of OCing anything? I was just wanting to play games like ME1/2 and Black Ops without fear that something's gonna crap out on me.

If they can help, though...
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November 17, 2010 11:04:47 AM

CPUID HWMonitor is my personal favourite. I find it to be very reliable. You can grab it here:

http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/hwmonitor.html

On a different note; I don't want to sound harsh here, but upgrading to an old generation Phenom may not have been the best idea. Why didn't you go for an Athlon/Phenom II instead?
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November 17, 2010 11:08:49 AM

Didn't have a lot of money at the time I bought it. I bought everything at the same time all for 200 some at TigerDirect, so I had to go with what I could afford.

I upgraded from a Socket 939 single core to an AM2+, though, which paves the way for me to be able to get a newer processor.
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November 17, 2010 11:19:36 AM

darkpowrjd said:
Didn't have a lot of money at the time I bought it. I bought everything at the same time all for 200 some at TigerDirect, so I had to go with what I could afford.

I upgraded from a Socket 939 single core to an AM2+, though, which paves the way for me to be able to get a newer processor.

OC communities are the best when it comes to monitoring PC health.Cpu temp monitor software..They have been doing this for quite sometime..Get a one or two recommendations from them..
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November 18, 2010 9:42:47 AM

I'm also wondering if the way I have my heatsink now might be contributing to the problem (and if it is, then I'm more of a novice at this than I thought).

This is the fan I have going now: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/ite...

Now, this is the case I have: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

I installed the heatsink in that the fan for it is located near the rear of the case. I'm starting to think that's part of the problem, but I cannot say for sure. I have no case fan on the back yet (this is me being an absolute idiot and a blind person, since I just now realized that I COULD install a good amount of fans, including a rear one), and I'm wondering if I have to turn the heatsink around (at the moment, any game is taking the processor's temp way up).
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November 18, 2010 12:45:20 PM

Have you tried re-installing your heatsink?

Sometimes fluctuating temps can be down to thermal paste application, too much or not enough.

Check this guide out - http://www.arcticsilver.com/amd_application_method.html...

Download OCCT.

Open up your monitoring progs all together, I use speedfan, coretemp and hwmon.

Run OCCT and after a min the load will kick in and the temps will fly up.

The temps that fly up are the cpu temps and the ones you need to watch.

Anything around 60C under load fine, over 70C not so good.

Hope this helps. [:bohleyk:1]
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November 18, 2010 9:24:47 PM

Well, I think I know what's going on (I used that tool, and looked at the graphs; the CPU temp seemed to shoot straight up). I installed the heatsink wrong. The fan is blowing INTO the heatsink, and blowing the heat towards the front of the case (which is right into my RAM) instead of where it SHOULD be going (towards the back, where a case fan that I just ordered will be going).

I think that's the issue. The heat has no real means of escaping the case, so it goes onto the components. Anyone else think this could be it?
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November 18, 2010 9:38:44 PM

That will definitely contribute to the heat build up inside the case as like you say the warm air isn't being extracted.

I still don't think that is the soul reason for your high cpu temps, have you tried re applying the thermal paste as per instructions, just using a tiny dot and giving the heatsink and cpu a good clean before.

What temps did you get under load, and are they cooler with the side of the case off?
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November 19, 2010 5:50:25 AM

Well, like an idiot, I gave the CPU and heatsink a thin coat like I saw in a YouTube video to cover the processor. I didn't have a chance to redo the thing, but I'm going to be putting that new case fan in at the latest tomorrow, so I can check it then unless it requires more urgency (am interested in killing two birds in one stone).

Not looking forward to unhooking the entire mobo to do that (hoping I won't have to, but knowing how things can be with putting these things together, I might not have too much of a choicer).
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November 19, 2010 9:15:24 AM

Yep, I'm sure that would help, just a small dot in the middle, about the size of half a grain of rice.

I don't see why you would have to unhook your mobo to change the cpu heatsink or install a case fan.

If you don't have any more thermal paste its not expensive to buy just a small tube -

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=E...

And some thermal paste remover wouldn't do you any harm either for a freash install -

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=E...
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November 19, 2010 9:22:16 AM

Yeah, I checked it, and I probably won't have to. I'll have to remove my GPU and the RAM stick to have the room, but everything should be okay there barring some weird issue I'm not foreseeing.

As for grease, I still have a good bit of compound that came with the sink, so that should be okay (for a tiny tube, it holds a good bit). The removal of the old grease is where I might have a bit of problems, because I don't have immediate access to remover or rubbing alcohol, and I want to get this done ASAP (I got PLENTY of q-tips ready to go, though).

This may be a stupid question, but is it possible that I would have to remove any of it at all (in whatever scenario you might think it would be a possibility)?

EDIT: There's something else I could do, but it might be a bit more complex: remove the fan from the one side and put it on the other side. I don't know if that fan detaches at all.

Also, about the thermal removal query I mentioned. I just did the upgrade this past Tuesday, and the paste has only been on it for as long (as in, it's only been there for about 4 days at most), if that makes any difference.
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November 19, 2010 10:52:09 AM

Quote:
Yeah, I checked it, and I probably won't have to. I'll have to remove my GPU and the RAM stick to have the room, but everything should be okay there barring some weird issue I'm not foreseeing.


Good.

Quote:
As for grease, I still have a good bit of compound that came with the sink, so that should be okay (for a tiny tube, it holds a good bit). The removal of the old grease is where I might have a bit of problems, because I don't have immediate access to remover or rubbing alcohol, and I want to get this done ASAP (I got PLENTY of q-tips ready to go, though).


To be honest a bit of toilet tissue will do the job. Just wipe the whole lot off and start again. I've used tissue for years and never had any probs, just make sure theres no dust on it and don't touch cpu or heatsink with your fingers.

Quote:
This may be a stupid question, but is it possible that I would have to remove any of it at all (in whatever scenario you might think it would be a possibility)?


If you mean the paste, no, remove the lot. If you mean the components then from what you've said I would def remove the heatsink and re-do the application as per instructions. Remove surrounding components to give yourself as much room as possible to work.

Quote:
EDIT: There's something else I could do, but it might be a bit more complex: remove the fan from the one side and put it on the other side. I don't know if that fan detaches at all.


Remove the entire heatsink and spin it round.

Quote:
Also, about the thermal removal query I mentioned. I just did the upgrade this past Tuesday, and the paste has only been on it for as long (as in, it's only been there for about 4 days at most), if that makes any difference.


Again no, clean the cpu and base of heatsink of all used thermal paste and re-apply, I'm sure you'll see a differance. Thermal paste does take some hours to bed in but you should notice an instant improvement if that is the problem. Re-using thermal paste is a no no.

Hope you get it sorted.
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November 19, 2010 9:34:55 PM

Okay, I've done it, and so far, so good. I installed the heatsink the correct way now, and the rear case fan is now on there. I was worried that the PSU might not be able to handle the additional fan, but things seem to be okay there.

But now my comp has gone to, at most, 53C (while seeing the load playing Mass Effect, which was the most taxing so far, and I'll try Starcraft 2 later). Right now, it's at 32C and stable (give or take a few degrees), which I guess is where it should be right now doing normal computer activity. Thus, at the moment, the issue is fixed, but I'll keep this unsolved until I can test playing something like SC2 on it.
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November 19, 2010 9:46:57 PM

Nice one, sounding good.

Just run OCCT for 1hr, it will test your cpu and ram for stability and test the cooling power of the heatsink.

You can also configue OCCT to monitor your temps and voltages.

Load it up / Click on the orange configure box / Choose built in at the top / Use drop down boxes to apply temps.

Dont worry too much if it hits 65-70 under OCCT as long as it passes. [:bohleyk:1]
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November 22, 2010 5:29:03 AM

Well, most of the stuff is resolved. I think I need to update some of the drivers.

That and while most games won't do too much to worry about with CPU temp (Starcraft 2 goes to 60-65, but it seems to stabilize there, and barring any freak thing I didn't see coming, WoW stabilizes at 40-45 on medium settings), it seems that Mass Effect feels the need to use just about every single ounce of hardware you have just to say that it does, and the temp shoots straight up in a hurry. However, that seems to be a common issue with the game, as I searched on Google to find out that there seems to be an issue where ME wants to send the CPU to all it can handle without a given reason as to why it needs to use so much.

Anyway, I think things are looking good (that second fan the sink can handle might be something worth getting).
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November 22, 2010 9:27:14 AM

Good, glad your getting there.

Cant remember if I've already asked but are you using cool n quiet or have you got a fan speed controller?

Its worth considering, more air flow and cooler cpu's are always a good thing. :D 
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November 22, 2010 9:44:13 AM

Hmm...I don't think I have either on this. I don't think the CNQ thing is on this processor (at least not yet). I would have to know if you mean hardware or software for the fan speed controllers.

I've seen that all CPUs in the Phenom line support the tech, but the product page on CompUSA didn't list it as a feature. Thing is, I'm hoping that, if it didn't come with it already installed, that I can do something about that (and I'm hoping the Wiki page about CNQ wasn't lying to me about it).
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November 22, 2010 10:14:36 AM

CnQ is actually a motherboard feature, not a CPU feature. You turn it on and off in BIOS.
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November 22, 2010 10:35:39 AM

Herr_Koos said:
CnQ is actually a motherboard feature, not a CPU feature. You turn it on and off in BIOS.


Yeah. I feel stupid for not realizing that.

I went into my BIOS (which, by the way, had my CPU at 60-63C at restart just now), and found the CnQ option. On the ECS A740GM-M mobo I have, it's set to "Auto" right now (I don't know how this mobo determines when it should be used), and the "Enabled" or "Disabled" option. The manual said that "Enabled" is defaulted, but I never went into this to change it (the BIOS defaults might've been changed, I guess). Should I change this to "Enabled" or leave it at Auto?
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November 22, 2010 10:52:21 AM

Is there a section in the bios, something like pc health or status.

Usually it gives you options about setting when you want your fan to run at i.e.

>50C - 60% - <40C 30% etc etc so you can set when the fan revs up.

Cool n quiet is ok but a speed fan controller would give you total control over your cpu heat.

http://www.google.co.uk/products?q=akasa+speed+fan+cont...

There are loads to choose from, single control up to say 6 or 8 fans. Some allow you to control each fan separatley where as others link 2 or 3 together and all turn up or down together. They just allow you to learn to monitor your temps andd keep on top of them. I have cool n quiet disabled as I OC and want max cooling power all the time with silent fans.

Do you notice the fan revving up and slowing down when you game etc, thats cool n quiet working.

See if you can find the settings and set it up for what suits you, it would be interesting to see if the fan is set to run at full power, then you know it has reached its max temp cooling potential and another fan might help.
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November 22, 2010 12:15:04 PM

I don't think I've heard my fans move any faster at any point.

The PC Health was where I went to get my reading, so yeah, it does have that, though I didn't check what the temp had to be for the fans to run faster.

I'm unsure in the C&Q setting what the difference between "Enabled" and "Auto" is (it's more of what it means by Auto C&Q), or if I should change it to Enabled. The manual gives no real indication of what the mobo will monitor or anything like that with that setting.
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November 22, 2010 12:20:52 PM

Enabled means its on and running to whatever you set it at.

Auto means its on and being controlled by the system defaults.

If its been on auto you should have heard the fans increasing, unless the default settings are stupid.

Try turning if off, your fans should then spin at full speed all the time and you can see the differance.
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November 23, 2010 11:52:21 AM

Yeah, I can't really find any bit of change with how my fans run at any point right now. I didn't change it yet because I don't want to screw anything up until I know I can do it without blowing up anything. I've been a very paranoid person about this sort of thing ever since I blew a PSU last year while trying to rip a CD; I can't count how many times I've checked Speedfan while playing WoW per DAY on my old single core 939 AMD processor. On that one, WoW only sent it to 55 without the back fan, and that was just because it was a hot day. I know I shouldn't be so paranoid, and that behavior has probably caused me to look for things that aren't there, but I don't want the same thing happening again to something I just got done building (was the first time I built one that was successful).

Thing is, with my old setup, I had an Ultra heat pipe that had two fans on both sides. Right now, this Cooler Master one only has the in-fan (the fan is blowing air INTO the fins), and nothing on the other side (no OUT fan). I want to see what would happen if I were to install that other fan for the push-pull thing. That would take the heat very close to where my rear fan is now. This case has the option to install two 80mm fans in the front, but it will be a pain in the rear to do the operation to install them, and I don't want to go through that pain if I don't have to.

Also, I've been very suspicious about this, and I'm wondering if this is just normal, too, or if this could be one of the reasons why I'm having the problems. Every time when I look in, say, CoreTemp (or something that reads the temp of each core), it seems as if all of the cores are the same temp, no matter what. If one core goes up/down one degree, they ALL will at the exact same time. I don't know if that's supposed to be like that, or if that means something isn't getting used properly. The processor was OEM, if that means anything.

EDIT: I should mention that I don't think the BIOS is up to date on this mobo. It's V7.0, and I think there's a new BIOS available, but if you want to talk about things I've never done before, flashing BIOS would be a brand new thing for me.
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November 23, 2010 2:29:54 PM

Just try it with cool n quiet off, you can always turn it on again, your fans should run full speed.

If you can install fans at the front its def gonna help with airflow through the case.

Also the other cpu fan sounds like a good idea, with all these fans a speed controller would be handy.

Sounds like your temps are a lot better but some high airflow quiet fans will only help.

OEM is fine, just means it doesn't come with all the packaging.

I think the bios update is pretty easy for your system - http://www.ecs.com.tw/extra/edlu/web/index.html

Don't know if its necessary as it says the update just addresses the 2.2T HDD size.

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