PSU help

[stevie44]

I was using the Antec wattage calc, to see how my motherboard/cpu upgrade would affect my current psu. I changed from a single core to dual core amd (3500+ single to 4600+ 2.4 gig). I have a 300 watt psu right now.

Question: I put in the cpu change of a quad core: AMD Athlon II X4 640 Propus 3.0GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache Socket AM3 95W Quad cpu. I'm also upgrading the MOBO. It shows power requirements of 344 watts. So just being curious plugged in my x2 and it showed 337 watts. I have no crashes, reboots, errors, etc. Nothing. right now.

I'm not upgrading any other items right now. I realized sure just giving me a general wattage estimate of course.
But sounds like shouldn't have enough power.


AMD 4600+
dvd burner...single drive
Gigabyte 4670 HD gpu
Belkin wireless pci card
WD 80 gb HD



Steve

 

[Emperus]

Your setup (considering even when you upgrade to a quad core processor) would surely do fine with a decent 400W PSU such as the Corsair CX 400.. If however, you've any plans on upgrading your video card, the requirements might change.. As of now, your entire rig will not be drawing anything more than 200 watts and as such, you might just be ok with your current 300 watt power supply.. Be aware of no name brands however.. It wont hurt, if you can obviously, to get a somewhat better PSU which will run for a long time to come..

 

[stevie44]

If wasn't obvious already, am just rookie or apprentice as stated above. So trying to learn here with these upgrades. Where are you getting the figure of 200 watts, so I understand. My mobo upgrade was looking at is:

ASUS M4A77D AM3/AM2+/AM2 AMD 770 ATX AMD Motherboard

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131618

Thanks for your help, Steve

 

[thechief73]

Hi stevie44, like you said the calc. only gives you a general estimate and it is usally high, I belive to aviod people calling/emailing saying the PSU they recommended did not work.

The best and only true way of telling how many watts you PC will require is to find the power draw of each part you are going to use and add them up. Emperus probably has enough expierence with these parts and kind of questions that he can give a very good estimated number for how many watts your PC will use. Just glancing at your parts list you included, your system is probably far more efficient than you would think.

Just some rough numbers:

CPU - will not be higher than 95w
DVD burner - 10w maybe 15w while burning
GPU / 4670 - draws from the PCI-e slot only, max that allows is 75w I belive.
HDD - 10w-15w under high read/write use
Wireless - PCi max is 25w I belive.

Total = 225 and that is a high estimate with everything running at max

 

[stevie44]

Hi stevie44, like you said the calc. only gives you a general estimate and it is usally high, I belive to aviod people calling/emailing saying the PSU they recommended did not work.

The best and only true way of telling how many watts you PC will require is to find the power draw of each part you are going to use and add them up. Emperus probably has enough expierence with these parts and kind of questions that he can give a very good estimated number for how many watts your PC will use. Just glancing at your parts list you included, your system is probably far more efficient than you would think.

Just some rough numbers:

CPU - will not be higher than 95w
DVD burner - 10w maybe 15w while burning
GPU / 4670 - draws from the PCI-e slot only, max that allows is 75w I belive.
HDD - 10w-15w under high read/write use
Wireless - PCi max is 25w I belive.

Total = 225 and that is a high estimate

So first AMD cpu was a Phenom II with 125 watt and had L3 cache of 6mb. Would that still keep me under the 300 watt barrier. Dad on a budget here, out numbered 3 to 1. Wife...two daughters. Promised to keep under $200. Right now mobo $79 and cpu $99, free shipping on both. Thanks for your help also.

 

[thechief73]

I am not 100% sure on the power requirement of the 3500+, I have found two chips under that name one is 62w and the other was 67w. The 4600+ is 65w, and the AMD Athlon II X4 640 is 95w as you know.

 

[stevie44]

Sorry for bad explanation. I was looking at this cpu also, but is 125 watt cpu...

AMD Phenom II X4 940 Black Edition Deneb 3.0GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache Socket AM2+ 125W Quad-Core Processor HDZ940XCJ4DGI - OEM
Average Rating

5/5(134 reviews)

question being, would i still be under the 300 watt barrier. One being 95 watt and above one jumps up to 125 watt chip.

 

[thechief73]

Oh, I am sorry I miss-understood when you said 125w. Well just take what I wrote up for you earlier and change 95w for the CPU to 125w:

Just some rough numbers:

CPU - will not be higher than 125w
DVD burner - 10w maybe 15w while burning
GPU / 4670 - draws from the PCI-e slot only, max that allows is 75w I belive.
HDD - 10w-15w under high read/write use
Wireless - PCi max is 25w I belive.

Total = 255w , and that is a high estimate with everything running at max.

You should still be ok because that is the theoretical max requirement of your PC and most likely will never be reached.

One thing that is important to consider: Is your current PSU up to providing the amount of power it says it can. Some PSU's that come with PC's are cheap to help keep costs down and they sometimes do not live up to the power claims they make.

If it is not trouble maybe you can find the model number of the PSU you have and post it, and maybe we can find some information on it to make sure you will be OK.

 

[stevie44]

Oh, I am sorry I miss-understood when you said 125w. Well just take what I wrote up for you earlier and change 95w for the CPU to 125w:

Just some rough numbers:

CPU - will not be higher than 125w
DVD burner - 10w maybe 15w while burning
GPU / 4670 - draws from the PCI-e slot only, max that allows is 75w I belive.
HDD - 10w-15w under high read/write use
Wireless - PCi max is 25w I belive.

Total = 255w , and that is a high estimate with everything running at max.

You should still be ok because that is the theoretical max requirement of your PC and most likely will never be reached.

One thing that is important to consider: Is your current PSU up to providing the amount of power it says it can. Some PSU's that come with PC's are cheap to help keep costs down and they sometimes do not live up to the power claims they make.

If it is not trouble maybe you can find the model number of the PSU you have and post it, and maybe we can find some information on it to make sure you will be OK.

Pulling off the name of psu: Bestec ATX-300-12ZCDR - 300 Watt ATX...specs of psu.

Output Max. Load
+5Vsb 2A
-12V 0.8A
+12V 19A
+5V 30A
+3.3V 28A

Another question, hows your motherboard knowledge. I did post a thread on my question, but only one reply.

Thx

 

[thechief73]

Thanks for the PSU info, Ill see what I can find and hopefully someone else will come in and comment about it, because its hard to find information on OEM/basic PSU's. One thing I can say right now is alot of people on the forums do not like any PSU that come with a pre-built PC for the very reason I mentioned in the post above and usally no one will recommend using them unless absolutly necessary.

I have a good knowledge of Mobo's and if I dont know something I search about it and read up on it until I do. Anyways other may be able to help also. You can just post up a link to your other question and I'll check it out.

 

[stevie44]

Can I put a micro atx board in my atx case. How big a deal is no onboard video, ASUS board was looking at has no onboard video chipset. Have the gigabyte hd 4670 gpu. Should u just install it and plug in the cords and hope for the best. Reading the manual of course is a good idea am sure.

Reading posts on newegg, some get bios errors and won't post and others fire right up.

ASUS M4A77D AM3/AM2+/AM2 AMD 770 and..........
AMD Athlon II X4 640 Propus 3.0GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache Socket AM3 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor ADX640WFGMBOX

But am open to suggestions, I just don't know what brands are good quality on mobo. Just so many brands. PC builders seem to like asus, but there's a MSI board that has onboard video too....I posted thread about two weeks ago, but only one reply....


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130266

 

[thechief73]

Yes you most likely can use a micro-atx board, almost every if not all mid-tower ATX cases should have screw holes for both. If you can link me to your case I may be able to tell you for sure right away, or here is a diagram below, sorry I know its small but you can zoom in and read it easily, but you can check and make sure you have the proper mounting holes in your case by compairing the measurments.

As for the on-board video, use your GPU that you have, I am an avid gamer and I also have a Sapphire 4670 512mb and it still severs me well, that is if we can determin if you should use the PSU you have, which I am still thinking it will be OK, so far. The only thing about no on-board video though if your video card fails, which I doubt it ever will but in the unlikely event you will not have any back-up and will have to get another GPU before you can use you PC again.

As for problems with the Mobo and Bios errors, manufacturing is not perfect as is nothing in this world, so yes some may have had a problem but its nothing to worry about. You have to take reviews like on newegg with a grain of salt because ALOT of the people write up a review because they had a problem and want to vent, so you get alot of negative things posted, then a few post because they are happy with the item and liked the product and a large majority of people that never had any problems with the item wont ever bother to post. You get the idea Im sure.

I also am an Asus fan, I have never used anything else, Gigabyte is also a very nice brand. MSI and a few others are ok too, but thier lower price and the fact less widely used gives them a value type reputation. Dont get me wrong there is nothing wrong with them, they are a great way to work within a budget.

 

[stevie44]

Yes you most likely can use a micro-atx board, almost every if not all mid-tower ATX cases should have crew holes for both. If you can link me to your case I may be able to tell you for sure right away, or here is a diagram below, sorry I know its small but you can zoom in and read it easily, but you can check and make sure you have the proper mounting holes in your case by compairing the measurments.

As for the on-board video, use your GPU that you have I am an avid gamer and I also have a Sapphire 4670 512mb and it still severs me well, that is if we can determin if you should use the PSU you have, which I am still thinking it will be OK, so far. The only thing about no on-board video though if your video card fails, which I doubt it ever will but in the unlikely event you will not have any back-up and will have to get another GPU before you can use you PC again.

As for problems with the Mobo and Bios errors, manufacturing is not perfect as is nothing in this world, so yes some may have a problem but its nothing to worry about, you have to take reviews like on newegg with a grain of salt because ALOT of the people write up a review because they had a problem and want to vent, so you get alot of negative things posted, then a few post because they are happy with the item and liked the product and a large majority of people that never had any problems with the item won tever bother to post. You get the idea Im sure.

I also am an Asus fan, I have never used anything else, Gigabyte is also a very nice brand and MSi and a few others are ok too, but thier lower price and the fact less widel used gives them a value type reputation. Dont get me wrong there is nothing wrond with them, they are a great way to work within a budget.

http://www.freeopenbook.com/upgrading-repairing-pc/FILES/04fig16.gif

So my current asus choice, but lacking onboard video would be okay am guessing. Okay might be heading into the cpu area, but have been watching youtube videos about thermal paste. I was headed toward Artic silver 5, but again will try any brand. My cpu does come with a pad though. youtube shows (for quad cores) that you can spread across the chip, very thin or apply a straight line and let heat sink spread it out. Which is best??? I spread around the whole chip and never been above 50c. I never covered this with you, but this upgrade is for gaming also. I'm trying to play Black Ops with dual core, its passable at best. But am seeing games needing the quad core now.

 

[thechief73]

Yep, if you have a GPU, on-board is just a back-up, not necessary.

Artic Silver 5 is highly recommended around here, but I have not used it myself, I use OCZ Artic Freeze, which is also highly rated TIM(Thermal Interface Material - technical name but nice abbreviation). Here is a review of 80 different TIM's. This link goes to the last page where they list the highly rated TIM's, anything from that list will work fine, just make sure 100% before you buy one that it is a brand that is NOT electrically conductive because some are, and this is my personal preference but some also have a curing time before they reach their peek performance, I avoid them as well.

As for applying the paste their are two good methods, the one you listed as spreading a thin layer across the heatsink with a credit card or something similar. Or you can put a small rice grain size bead on the center of the CPU and then just apply the heatsink. I usually use the second method myself and when I place the heatsink I make sure to press it down firmly and slightly wiggle it in a circular motion to help the spreading of the TIM. But either way works fine, you can use the method you like best. Staying under 50c is very good.

I game on a Pentium 4 3.4GHz with the ATI 4670 512mb, 4GB RAM, I even play Crysis @ 1280x1024 mix of medium to high setting w/ 2x AA, and I have yet to find a game where I cannot play at a resolution or detail setting that came remotely to dissapointing or un-playable.

I have not played COD Black Ops, I am waiting to see how it goes for a few months before buying, I have heard there are still alot of bugs to be fixed online and off in the game. And many people have said the game play even in single player is very slow, so that could be some of your trouble. On that note I have played he beta of MOH and its minimum system requirements was a dual core CPU but it played perfectly fine on my single core P4. Sorry if that was long just wanted to give some information that may help you get some perspective.

 

[stevie44]

Yep, if you have a GPU, on-board is just a back-up, not necessary.

Artic Silver 5 is highly recommended around here, but I have not used it myself, I use OCZ Artic Freeze, which is also highly rated TIM(Thermal Interface Material - technical name but nice abbreviation). Here is a review of 80 different TIM's. This link goes to the last page where they list the highly rated TIM's, anything from that list will work fine, just make sure 100% before you buy one that it is a brand that is NOT electrically conductive because some are, and this is my personal preference but some also have a curing time before they reach their peek performance, I avoid them as well.

As for applying the paste their are two good methods, the one you listed as spreading a thin layer across the heatsink with a credit card or something similar. Or you can put a small rice grain size bead on the center of the CPU and then just apply the heatsink. I usually use the second method myself and when I place the heatsink I make sure to press it down firmly and slightly wiggle it in a circular motion to help the spreading of the TIM. But either way works fine, you can use the method you like best. Staying under 50c is very good.

I game on a Pentium 4 3.4GHz with the ATI 4670 512mb, 4GB RAM, I even play Crysis @ 1280x1024 mix of medium to high setting w/ 2x AA, and I have yet to find a game where I cannot play at a resolution or detail setting that came remotely to dissapointing or un-playable.

I have not played COD Black Ops, I am waiting to see how it goes for a few months before buying, I have heard there are still alot of bugs to be fixed online and off in the game. And many people have said the game play even in single player is very slow, so that could be some of your trouble. On that note I have played he beta of MOH and its minimum system requirements was a dual core CPU but it played perfectly fine on my single core P4. Sorry if that was long just wanted to give some information that may help you get some perspective.

MOH worked fine on dual core, 1080p settings. Boy your smart to wait on black ops, tons of fan boys hating the lagging and bugs on this game. I won't repeat the french, stated. I don't get it how infinity ward on modern warfare 2 it works on full settings and treyarch has so many bugs. Like world of war game. I like first person shooters, but lots of great games out there to play. Halo fan with my daughters. Once was a time could beat them, but those days are gone. Thanks again for your help.

 

[thechief73]

Hey, Its no problem I am glad to help others out.

I am a FPS fan also, its really all I play: Half Life is my first love along with online HL2 Death Match(all my good gaming buddies play this), Borderlands, Bioshock, Crysis/Warhead, Far Cry 2, Dead Space, Left 4 Dead 1&2, COD4, Stalker: SOC and thats about it, I am a budget gamer I dont buy games until I can get them for ~$15.

I dont not know what is going on with MW even when it was under Ininity Ward or Treyarch, seems Treyarch was less expierenced and had big shoes to fill but really all they did was follow the path laid by Infinity Ward so it should have been a cake walk for them, to be honest I have disliked the why the whole franchise has been run from COD 4 and on. I eventually bought it but that was long after MW2 was out and I got it really cheap on a Steam sale, I was not impressed with the single palyer game at all, and I will not tolerate the foul language, immature, cheats that MW has been plauged with from the begining as well as MW2, which I will not purchase.

They also grind me the wrong way with dedicated severs, I hate the idea of $15 map packs, and really a lack of respect for the gamers that made them who they are. I put alot of the blame with thier EA overlords, I wont even go there, but still the way things have been going with the franchise in the past is exactally why I waiting this one out also.

 

[rand_79]

Bestec has some really crap power supplies some are notorious for eating motherboards.

you should prob get something better to protect your investment.

I'd snag something in a 400watt range from corsair/seasonic/enermax/pc power and cooling.. perhaps select models from some other manufacturers..

 

[stevie44]

Hey, Its no problem I am glad to help others out.

I am a FPS fan also, its really all I play: Half Life is my first love along with online HL2 Death Match(all my good gaming buddies play this), Borderlands, Bioshock, Crysis/Warhead, Far Cry 2, Dead Space, Left 4 Dead 1&2, COD4, Stalker: SOC and thats about it, I am a budget gamer I dont buy games until I can get them for ~$15.

I dont not know what is going on with MW even when it was under Ininity Ward or Treyarch, seems Treyarch was less expierenced and had big shoes to fill but really all they did was follow the path laid by Infinity Ward so it should have been a cake walk for them, to be honest I have disliked the why the whole franchise has been run from COD 4 and on. I eventually bought it but that was long after MW2 was out and I got it really cheap on a Steam sale, I was not impressed with the single palyer game at all, and I will not tolerate the foul language, immature, cheats that MW has been plauged with from the begining as well as MW2, which I will not purchase.

They also grind me the wrong way with dedicated severs, I hate the idea of $15 map packs, and really a lack of respect for the gamers that made them who they are. I put alot of the blame with thier EA overlords, I wont even go there, but still the way things have been going with the franchise in the past is exactally why I waiting this one out also.

Your a gamer after my own heart. Love half life 2 and the gravity gun. Love to play it with only that weapon. Gordon Freeman is my fav. I've played all those games. Dead space was a challenge. Love the little dude on Borderlands that talked to you. Far cry 2 was little too much like gta in africa. Crysis another cool game. But love to go back to half life, even blue shift and opposing force.

 

[thechief73]

Far cry 2 was little too much like gta in africa.

[:badge:5] I laughed like crazy when I read that, That is EXACTALLY what I tell people when I describe it to them. I loved the graphics in that game and the guns, but the driving was not well done and I got pissed when I had to kill the same guys at the same check point 5 times in a row, but to me it had enough positive things to make me enjoy it, like I said I really like the graphics.

Bestec has some really crap power supplies some are notorious for eating motherboards.
you should prob get something better to protect your investment.
I'd snag something in a 400watt range from corsair/seasonic/enermax/pc power and cooling.. perhaps select models from some other manufacturers..

I was kind of thinking this same thing but I was still researching them, one thing I found that worries this statement I found:

Safety: UL, CSA, TUV
Efficiency: 70% minimum
Reliability: > 100K hours with all outputs at maximum load, ambient temperature of 25°C
AC Input: 115/230VAC selectable, 7/4A, 47-63HZ
DC Outputs (Amps Max/Min): +3.3V (28/0.5A), +5V (30/1.0A), +12V (19/1.0A), -12V (0.8/0.0A), +5VSB (2.0/0.0A)
DC Notes: (1) +3.3V and +5V total output not to exceed 180W, (2) +5V and +12V total output not to exceed 288W

If you can afford to do so I think it would be wise to go for something like this: Antec EarthWatts Green EA-430D Green 430W The total price after MIR and using this code: BTEZZZS23 is $29, I have tried it and it works perfectly, the only thing is that this wil only work until Nov. 21, after that you can get it for $30 until Nov. 24 then its back up to $60 + s/h.

 

[Emperus]

@Stevie44 - your 300 watt PSU has a 19A rating on the +12V rail.. That amounts to 228 watts of power output.. This is a tight squeeze as per me and my primary recommendation will be to look out and try to change it to something like a Corsair CX 400.. For your 200$ budget, my recommendations will be -

CPU - AMD Athlon II X3 445

Motherboard - the one you've selected already

PSU - You should've enough cash left now to upgrade to a better PSU.. You can go for the one I suggested or look out for better deals..

 

[stevie44]

I will watch the shell shocker deals, thx

 

[thechief73]

Antec EarthWatts Green EA-430D Green 430W The total price after MIR and using this code: BTEZZZS23 is $29, I have tried it and it works perfectly, the only thing is that this wil only work until Nov. 21, after that you can get it for $30 until Nov. 24 then its back up to $60 + s/h.

 

[stevie44]

So are you saying now, the 300 watt wont cut it, with the quad core cpu??

 

[thechief73]

Well, if you are asking me I never gave you a definate answer because I was still unsure and I was looking into it. But with the information I have read and others have confirmed and provided, I do not think it is a risk you want to take, because it will be extreamly boaderline situation if it will be able to provide the power your PC will require.

Quotes from me above.

" Thanks for the PSU info, Ill see what I can find and hopefully someone else will come in and comment about it, because its hard to find information on OEM/basic PSU's. One thing I can say right now is alot of people on the forums do not like any PSU that come with a pre-built PC for the very reason I mentioned in the post above and usally no one will recommend using them unless absolutly necessary. "

" Total = 255w , and that is a high estimate with everything running at max. "

" DC Notes: (1) +3.3V and +5V total output not to exceed 180W, (2) +5V and +12V total output not to exceed 288W "

Watts = Amps x Volts 19amps x 12v = 228w

-Emperus- Your 300 watt PSU has a 19A rating on the +12V rail.. That amounts to 228 watts of power output.

All that put together = not a good idea at all.

 

[stevie44]

So can you blow mobo or cpu, or will it not fire up if wattage isn't there?? Running with x2 4600+ only 64 watts, but would be going up to 95 watts. So that is what you factored in?? Another tom's hardware guy, says I have a micro atx case and have to use a micro atx mobo. Still good boards?? I can't afford to buy atx case and build up whole system.

So changing out psu, are all connections different amount of pins, dummy proof. Or do like your car spark plugs, one at a time to avoid big headaches.