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PSU help

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November 18, 2010 10:29:05 PM

I was using the Antec wattage calc, to see how my motherboard/cpu upgrade would affect my current psu. I changed from a single core to dual core amd (3500+ single to 4600+ 2.4 gig). I have a 300 watt psu right now.

Question: I put in the cpu change of a quad core: AMD Athlon II X4 640 Propus 3.0GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache Socket AM3 95W Quad cpu. I'm also upgrading the MOBO. It shows power requirements of 344 watts. So just being curious plugged in my x2 and it showed 337 watts. I have no crashes, reboots, errors, etc. Nothing. right now.

I'm not upgrading any other items right now. I realized sure just giving me a general wattage estimate of course.
But sounds like shouldn't have enough power.


AMD 4600+
dvd burner...single drive
Gigabyte 4670 HD gpu
Belkin wireless pci card
WD 80 gb HD



Steve

More about : psu

a c 91 ) Power supply
a c 81 à CPUs
November 18, 2010 10:52:47 PM

Your setup (considering even when you upgrade to a quad core processor) would surely do fine with a decent 400W PSU such as the Corsair CX 400.. If however, you've any plans on upgrading your video card, the requirements might change.. As of now, your entire rig will not be drawing anything more than 200 watts and as such, you might just be ok with your current 300 watt power supply.. Be aware of no name brands however.. It wont hurt, if you can obviously, to get a somewhat better PSU which will run for a long time to come..
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November 18, 2010 11:08:29 PM

If wasn't obvious already, am just rookie or apprentice as stated above. So trying to learn here with these upgrades. Where are you getting the figure of 200 watts, so I understand. My mobo upgrade was looking at is:

ASUS M4A77D AM3/AM2+/AM2 AMD 770 ATX AMD Motherboard

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Thanks for your help, Steve
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a b ) Power supply
a b à CPUs
November 18, 2010 11:26:42 PM

Hi stevie44, like you said the calc. only gives you a general estimate and it is usally high, I belive to aviod people calling/emailing saying the PSU they recommended did not work.

The best and only true way of telling how many watts you PC will require is to find the power draw of each part you are going to use and add them up. Emperus probably has enough expierence with these parts and kind of questions that he can give a very good estimated number for how many watts your PC will use. Just glancing at your parts list you included, your system is probably far more efficient than you would think.

Just some rough numbers:

CPU - will not be higher than 95w
DVD burner - 10w maybe 15w while burning
GPU / 4670 - draws from the PCI-e slot only, max that allows is 75w I belive.
HDD - 10w-15w under high read/write use
Wireless - PCi max is 25w I belive.

Total = 225 and that is a high estimate with everything running at max
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November 18, 2010 11:33:23 PM

thechief73 said:
Hi stevie44, like you said the calc. only gives you a general estimate and it is usally high, I belive to aviod people calling/emailing saying the PSU they recommended did not work.

The best and only true way of telling how many watts you PC will require is to find the power draw of each part you are going to use and add them up. Emperus probably has enough expierence with these parts and kind of questions that he can give a very good estimated number for how many watts your PC will use. Just glancing at your parts list you included, your system is probably far more efficient than you would think.

Just some rough numbers:

CPU - will not be higher than 95w
DVD burner - 10w maybe 15w while burning
GPU / 4670 - draws from the PCI-e slot only, max that allows is 75w I belive.
HDD - 10w-15w under high read/write use
Wireless - PCi max is 25w I belive.

Total = 225 and that is a high estimate



So first AMD cpu was a Phenom II with 125 watt and had L3 cache of 6mb. Would that still keep me under the 300 watt barrier. Dad on a budget here, out numbered 3 to 1. Wife...two daughters. Promised to keep under $200. Right now mobo $79 and cpu $99, free shipping on both. Thanks for your help also.
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a b ) Power supply
a b à CPUs
November 18, 2010 11:52:38 PM

I am not 100% sure on the power requirement of the 3500+, I have found two chips under that name one is 62w and the other was 67w. The 4600+ is 65w, and the AMD Athlon II X4 640 is 95w as you know.
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November 18, 2010 11:57:07 PM

Sorry for bad explanation. I was looking at this cpu also, but is 125 watt cpu...

AMD Phenom II X4 940 Black Edition Deneb 3.0GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache Socket AM2+ 125W Quad-Core Processor HDZ940XCJ4DGI - OEM
Average Rating

5/5(134 reviews)

question being, would i still be under the 300 watt barrier. One being 95 watt and above one jumps up to 125 watt chip.
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a b ) Power supply
a b à CPUs
November 19, 2010 12:17:18 AM

Oh, I am sorry I miss-understood when you said 125w. Well just take what I wrote up for you earlier and change 95w for the CPU to 125w:

Just some rough numbers:

CPU - will not be higher than 125w
DVD burner - 10w maybe 15w while burning
GPU / 4670 - draws from the PCI-e slot only, max that allows is 75w I belive.
HDD - 10w-15w under high read/write use
Wireless - PCi max is 25w I belive.

Total = 255w , and that is a high estimate with everything running at max.

You should still be ok because that is the theoretical max requirement of your PC and most likely will never be reached.

One thing that is important to consider: Is your current PSU up to providing the amount of power it says it can. Some PSU's that come with PC's are cheap to help keep costs down and they sometimes do not live up to the power claims they make.

If it is not trouble maybe you can find the model number of the PSU you have and post it, and maybe we can find some information on it to make sure you will be OK.
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November 19, 2010 12:34:18 AM

thechief73 said:
Oh, I am sorry I miss-understood when you said 125w. Well just take what I wrote up for you earlier and change 95w for the CPU to 125w:

Just some rough numbers:

CPU - will not be higher than 125w
DVD burner - 10w maybe 15w while burning
GPU / 4670 - draws from the PCI-e slot only, max that allows is 75w I belive.
HDD - 10w-15w under high read/write use
Wireless - PCi max is 25w I belive.

Total = 255w , and that is a high estimate with everything running at max.

You should still be ok because that is the theoretical max requirement of your PC and most likely will never be reached.

One thing that is important to consider: Is your current PSU up to providing the amount of power it says it can. Some PSU's that come with PC's are cheap to help keep costs down and they sometimes do not live up to the power claims they make.

If it is not trouble maybe you can find the model number of the PSU you have and post it, and maybe we can find some information on it to make sure you will be OK.



Pulling off the name of psu: Bestec ATX-300-12ZCDR - 300 Watt ATX...specs of psu.

Output Max. Load
+5Vsb 2A
-12V 0.8A
+12V 19A
+5V 30A
+3.3V 28A

Another question, hows your motherboard knowledge. I did post a thread on my question, but only one reply.

Thx

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a b ) Power supply
a b à CPUs
November 19, 2010 1:02:31 AM

Thanks for the PSU info, Ill see what I can find and hopefully someone else will come in and comment about it, because its hard to find information on OEM/basic PSU's. One thing I can say right now is alot of people on the forums do not like any PSU that come with a pre-built PC for the very reason I mentioned in the post above and usally no one will recommend using them unless absolutly necessary.

I have a good knowledge of Mobo's and if I dont know something I search about it and read up on it until I do. Anyways other may be able to help also. You can just post up a link to your other question and I'll check it out. :) 
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November 19, 2010 1:09:05 AM

Can I put a micro atx board in my atx case. How big a deal is no onboard video, ASUS board was looking at has no onboard video chipset. Have the gigabyte hd 4670 gpu. Should u just install it and plug in the cords and hope for the best. Reading the manual of course is a good idea am sure.

Reading posts on newegg, some get bios errors and won't post and others fire right up.

ASUS M4A77D AM3/AM2+/AM2 AMD 770 and..........
AMD Athlon II X4 640 Propus 3.0GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache Socket AM3 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor ADX640WFGMBOX

But am open to suggestions, I just don't know what brands are good quality on mobo. Just so many brands. PC builders seem to like asus, but there's a MSI board that has onboard video too....I posted thread about two weeks ago, but only one reply....


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...


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a b ) Power supply
a b à CPUs
November 19, 2010 1:30:26 AM

Yes you most likely can use a micro-atx board, almost every if not all mid-tower ATX cases should have screw holes for both. If you can link me to your case I may be able to tell you for sure right away, or here is a diagram below, sorry I know its small but you can zoom in and read it easily, but you can check and make sure you have the proper mounting holes in your case by compairing the measurments.

As for the on-board video, use your GPU that you have, I am an avid gamer and I also have a Sapphire 4670 512mb and it still severs me well, that is if we can determin if you should use the PSU you have, which I am still thinking it will be OK, so far. The only thing about no on-board video though if your video card fails, which I doubt it ever will but in the unlikely event you will not have any back-up and will have to get another GPU before you can use you PC again.

As for problems with the Mobo and Bios errors, manufacturing is not perfect as is nothing in this world, so yes some may have had a problem but its nothing to worry about. You have to take reviews like on newegg with a grain of salt because ALOT of the people write up a review because they had a problem and want to vent, so you get alot of negative things posted, then a few post because they are happy with the item and liked the product and a large majority of people that never had any problems with the item wont ever bother to post. You get the idea Im sure.

I also am an Asus fan, I have never used anything else, Gigabyte is also a very nice brand. MSI and a few others are ok too, but thier lower price and the fact less widely used gives them a value type reputation. Dont get me wrong there is nothing wrong with them, they are a great way to work within a budget.

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November 19, 2010 1:39:14 AM

thechief73 said:
Yes you most likely can use a micro-atx board, almost every if not all mid-tower ATX cases should have crew holes for both. If you can link me to your case I may be able to tell you for sure right away, or here is a diagram below, sorry I know its small but you can zoom in and read it easily, but you can check and make sure you have the proper mounting holes in your case by compairing the measurments.

As for the on-board video, use your GPU that you have I am an avid gamer and I also have a Sapphire 4670 512mb and it still severs me well, that is if we can determin if you should use the PSU you have, which I am still thinking it will be OK, so far. The only thing about no on-board video though if your video card fails, which I doubt it ever will but in the unlikely event you will not have any back-up and will have to get another GPU before you can use you PC again.

As for problems with the Mobo and Bios errors, manufacturing is not perfect as is nothing in this world, so yes some may have a problem but its nothing to worry about, you have to take reviews like on newegg with a grain of salt because ALOT of the people write up a review because they had a problem and want to vent, so you get alot of negative things posted, then a few post because they are happy with the item and liked the product and a large majority of people that never had any problems with the item won tever bother to post. You get the idea Im sure.

I also am an Asus fan, I have never used anything else, Gigabyte is also a very nice brand and MSi and a few others are ok too, but thier lower price and the fact less widel used gives them a value type reputation. Dont get me wrong there is nothing wrond with them, they are a great way to work within a budget.

http://www.freeopenbook.com/upgrading-repairing-pc/FILES/04fig16.gif




So my current asus choice, but lacking onboard video would be okay am guessing. Okay might be heading into the cpu area, but have been watching youtube videos about thermal paste. I was headed toward Artic silver 5, but again will try any brand. My cpu does come with a pad though. youtube shows (for quad cores) that you can spread across the chip, very thin or apply a straight line and let heat sink spread it out. Which is best??? I spread around the whole chip and never been above 50c. I never covered this with you, but this upgrade is for gaming also. I'm trying to play Black Ops with dual core, its passable at best. But am seeing games needing the quad core now.
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a b ) Power supply
a b à CPUs
November 19, 2010 2:22:16 AM

Yep, if you have a GPU, on-board is just a back-up, not necessary.

Artic Silver 5 is highly recommended around here, but I have not used it myself, I use OCZ Artic Freeze, which is also highly rated TIM(Thermal Interface Material - technical name but nice abbreviation). Here is a review of 80 different TIM's. This link goes to the last page where they list the highly rated TIM's, anything from that list will work fine, just make sure 100% before you buy one that it is a brand that is NOT electrically conductive because some are, and this is my personal preference but some also have a curing time before they reach their peek performance, I avoid them as well.

As for applying the paste their are two good methods, the one you listed as spreading a thin layer across the heatsink with a credit card or something similar. Or you can put a small rice grain size bead on the center of the CPU and then just apply the heatsink. I usually use the second method myself and when I place the heatsink I make sure to press it down firmly and slightly wiggle it in a circular motion to help the spreading of the TIM. But either way works fine, you can use the method you like best. Staying under 50c is very good.

I game on a Pentium 4 3.4GHz with the ATI 4670 512mb, 4GB RAM, I even play Crysis @ 1280x1024 mix of medium to high setting w/ 2x AA, and I have yet to find a game where I cannot play at a resolution or detail setting that came remotely to dissapointing or un-playable.

I have not played COD Black Ops, I am waiting to see how it goes for a few months before buying, I have heard there are still alot of bugs to be fixed online and off in the game. And many people have said the game play even in single player is very slow, so that could be some of your trouble. On that note I have played he beta of MOH and its minimum system requirements was a dual core CPU but it played perfectly fine on my single core P4. Sorry if that was long just wanted to give some information that may help you get some perspective.
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November 19, 2010 2:31:53 AM

thechief73 said:
Yep, if you have a GPU, on-board is just a back-up, not necessary.

Artic Silver 5 is highly recommended around here, but I have not used it myself, I use OCZ Artic Freeze, which is also highly rated TIM(Thermal Interface Material - technical name but nice abbreviation). Here is a review of 80 different TIM's. This link goes to the last page where they list the highly rated TIM's, anything from that list will work fine, just make sure 100% before you buy one that it is a brand that is NOT electrically conductive because some are, and this is my personal preference but some also have a curing time before they reach their peek performance, I avoid them as well.

As for applying the paste their are two good methods, the one you listed as spreading a thin layer across the heatsink with a credit card or something similar. Or you can put a small rice grain size bead on the center of the CPU and then just apply the heatsink. I usually use the second method myself and when I place the heatsink I make sure to press it down firmly and slightly wiggle it in a circular motion to help the spreading of the TIM. But either way works fine, you can use the method you like best. Staying under 50c is very good.

I game on a Pentium 4 3.4GHz with the ATI 4670 512mb, 4GB RAM, I even play Crysis @ 1280x1024 mix of medium to high setting w/ 2x AA, and I have yet to find a game where I cannot play at a resolution or detail setting that came remotely to dissapointing or un-playable.

I have not played COD Black Ops, I am waiting to see how it goes for a few months before buying, I have heard there are still alot of bugs to be fixed online and off in the game. And many people have said the game play even in single player is very slow, so that could be some of your trouble. On that note I have played he beta of MOH and its minimum system requirements was a dual core CPU but it played perfectly fine on my single core P4. Sorry if that was long just wanted to give some information that may help you get some perspective.



MOH worked fine on dual core, 1080p settings. Boy your smart to wait on black ops, tons of fan boys hating the lagging and bugs on this game. I won't repeat the french, stated. I don't get it how infinity ward on modern warfare 2 it works on full settings and treyarch has so many bugs. Like world of war game. I like first person shooters, but lots of great games out there to play. Halo fan with my daughters. Once was a time could beat them, but those days are gone. Thanks again for your help.
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a b ) Power supply
a b à CPUs
November 19, 2010 2:54:10 AM

Hey, Its no problem I am glad to help others out.

I am a FPS fan also, its really all I play: Half Life is my first love along with online HL2 Death Match(all my good gaming buddies play this), Borderlands, Bioshock, Crysis/Warhead, Far Cry 2, Dead Space, Left 4 Dead 1&2, COD4, Stalker: SOC and thats about it, I am a budget gamer I dont buy games until I can get them for ~$15.

I dont not know what is going on with MW even when it was under Ininity Ward or Treyarch, seems Treyarch was less expierenced and had big shoes to fill but really all they did was follow the path laid by Infinity Ward so it should have been a cake walk for them, to be honest I have disliked the why the whole franchise has been run from COD 4 and on. I eventually bought it but that was long after MW2 was out and I got it really cheap on a Steam sale, I was not impressed with the single palyer game at all, and I will not tolerate the foul language, immature, cheats that MW has been plauged with from the begining as well as MW2, which I will not purchase.

They also grind me the wrong way with dedicated severs, I hate the idea of $15 map packs, and really a lack of respect for the gamers that made them who they are. I put alot of the blame with thier EA overlords, I wont even go there, but still the way things have been going with the franchise in the past is exactally why I waiting this one out also.
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a b à CPUs
November 19, 2010 2:59:01 AM

Bestec has some really crap power supplies some are notorious for eating motherboards.

you should prob get something better to protect your investment.

I'd snag something in a 400watt range from corsair/seasonic/enermax/pc power and cooling.. perhaps select models from some other manufacturers..
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November 19, 2010 3:02:23 AM

thechief73 said:
Hey, Its no problem I am glad to help others out.

I am a FPS fan also, its really all I play: Half Life is my first love along with online HL2 Death Match(all my good gaming buddies play this), Borderlands, Bioshock, Crysis/Warhead, Far Cry 2, Dead Space, Left 4 Dead 1&2, COD4, Stalker: SOC and thats about it, I am a budget gamer I dont buy games until I can get them for ~$15.

I dont not know what is going on with MW even when it was under Ininity Ward or Treyarch, seems Treyarch was less expierenced and had big shoes to fill but really all they did was follow the path laid by Infinity Ward so it should have been a cake walk for them, to be honest I have disliked the why the whole franchise has been run from COD 4 and on. I eventually bought it but that was long after MW2 was out and I got it really cheap on a Steam sale, I was not impressed with the single palyer game at all, and I will not tolerate the foul language, immature, cheats that MW has been plauged with from the begining as well as MW2, which I will not purchase.

They also grind me the wrong way with dedicated severs, I hate the idea of $15 map packs, and really a lack of respect for the gamers that made them who they are. I put alot of the blame with thier EA overlords, I wont even go there, but still the way things have been going with the franchise in the past is exactally why I waiting this one out also.



Your a gamer after my own heart. Love half life 2 and the gravity gun. Love to play it with only that weapon. Gordon Freeman is my fav. I've played all those games. Dead space was a challenge. Love the little dude on Borderlands that talked to you. Far cry 2 was little too much like gta in africa. Crysis another cool game. But love to go back to half life, even blue shift and opposing force.
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a b ) Power supply
a b à CPUs
November 19, 2010 3:42:20 AM

Quote:
Far cry 2 was little too much like gta in africa.

[:badge:5] I laughed like crazy when I read that, That is EXACTALLY what I tell people when I describe it to them. I loved the graphics in that game and the guns, but the driving was not well done and I got pissed when I had to kill the same guys at the same check point 5 times in a row, but to me it had enough positive things to make me enjoy it, like I said I really like the graphics.

Quote:
Bestec has some really crap power supplies some are notorious for eating motherboards.
you should prob get something better to protect your investment.
I'd snag something in a 400watt range from corsair/seasonic/enermax/pc power and cooling.. perhaps select models from some other manufacturers..

I was kind of thinking this same thing but I was still researching them, one thing I found that worries this statement I found:

Safety: UL, CSA, TUV
Efficiency: 70% minimum
Reliability: > 100K hours with all outputs at maximum load, ambient temperature of 25°C
AC Input: 115/230VAC selectable, 7/4A, 47-63HZ
DC Outputs (Amps Max/Min): +3.3V (28/0.5A), +5V (30/1.0A), +12V (19/1.0A), -12V (0.8/0.0A), +5VSB (2.0/0.0A)
DC Notes: (1) +3.3V and +5V total output not to exceed 180W, (2) +5V and +12V total output not to exceed 288W

If you can afford to do so I think it would be wise to go for something like this: Antec EarthWatts Green EA-430D Green 430W The total price after MIR and using this code: BTEZZZS23 is $29, I have tried it and it works perfectly, the only thing is that this wil only work until Nov. 21, after that you can get it for $30 until Nov. 24 then its back up to $60 + s/h.
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a c 91 ) Power supply
a c 81 à CPUs
November 19, 2010 3:54:54 AM

@Stevie44 - your 300 watt PSU has a 19A rating on the +12V rail.. That amounts to 228 watts of power output.. This is a tight squeeze as per me and my primary recommendation will be to look out and try to change it to something like a Corsair CX 400.. For your 200$ budget, my recommendations will be -

CPU - AMD Athlon II X3 445

Motherboard - the one you've selected already

PSU - You should've enough cash left now to upgrade to a better PSU.. You can go for the one I suggested or look out for better deals..
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November 19, 2010 3:57:08 AM

I will watch the shell shocker deals, thx
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a b ) Power supply
a b à CPUs
November 19, 2010 4:11:02 AM

Antec EarthWatts Green EA-430D Green 430W The total price after MIR and using this code: BTEZZZS23 is $29, I have tried it and it works perfectly, the only thing is that this wil only work until Nov. 21, after that you can get it for $30 until Nov. 24 then its back up to $60 + s/h.
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November 19, 2010 4:14:48 AM

So are you saying now, the 300 watt wont cut it, with the quad core cpu??
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a b ) Power supply
a b à CPUs
November 19, 2010 4:26:30 AM

Well, if you are asking me I never gave you a definate answer because I was still unsure and I was looking into it. But with the information I have read and others have confirmed and provided, I do not think it is a risk you want to take, because it will be extreamly boaderline situation if it will be able to provide the power your PC will require.

Quotes from me above.

" Thanks for the PSU info, Ill see what I can find and hopefully someone else will come in and comment about it, because its hard to find information on OEM/basic PSU's. One thing I can say right now is alot of people on the forums do not like any PSU that come with a pre-built PC for the very reason I mentioned in the post above and usally no one will recommend using them unless absolutly necessary. "

" Total = 255w , and that is a high estimate with everything running at max. "

" DC Notes: (1) +3.3V and +5V total output not to exceed 180W, (2) +5V and +12V total output not to exceed 288W "

Watts = Amps x Volts 19amps x 12v = 228w

-Emperus- Your 300 watt PSU has a 19A rating on the +12V rail.. That amounts to 228 watts of power output.

All that put together = not a good idea at all.
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November 19, 2010 4:25:39 PM

So can you blow mobo or cpu, or will it not fire up if wattage isn't there?? Running with x2 4600+ only 64 watts, but would be going up to 95 watts. So that is what you factored in?? Another tom's hardware guy, says I have a micro atx case and have to use a micro atx mobo. Still good boards?? I can't afford to buy atx case and build up whole system.

So changing out psu, are all connections different amount of pins, dummy proof. Or do like your car spark plugs, one at a time to avoid big headaches.
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a b ) Power supply
a b à CPUs
November 19, 2010 5:22:21 PM

It will just not turn on if it cannot handel the power draw or it may casue your PSU to fail, here is a quote that explains it somewhat:

"Modern PSUs have nice things like overvolt protection and what not which basically makes the PSU shut down when it's strained too much rather than frying and causing a surge of power that would fry the rest of your components. Of course, in cheap and in older PSUs such protection can fail. I've fried a few boards my self with old PSUs."

I do not know if your old PSu has this protection, but I doubt it, it most likely only has a fuse in it, which cannot be relied upon.

Micro ATX is just made to be smaller and more compact thatn ATX, there is no other difference besides Micro ATX may lack a few extra features to help reduce its size, like on-board video.

PSU's now-a-days are fool proff, the only thing that may be different is the motherboard power connector, which will be a 20-pin or a 24-pin and you can easily find this out by looking in your case and counting the number of pins or checking the specs on the motherboard you intend to buy. Some PSU's are compatible for both and say 20+4pin in the specs and most motherboards these days are just 24pin. Even if you make a mistake and get the wrong one there are adpaters that cost a $1-$2 to fix it.
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a b ) Power supply
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November 19, 2010 5:26:40 PM

There is also this PSu but it does not have a good review history and I would only recommend it if you really need to save more $ over the Antec I posted above. CORSAIR Builder Series CX430 CMPSU-430CX 430W You can pick this up for $16.49, Today ONLY.

If you are going to consider this PSU, I suggest you try to find a review on one of these sites just to ensure it is of acceptible quality.

www.Jonnyguru.com
www.hardwaresecrets.com
www.hardwarecanucks.com
www.hardocp.com
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a b ) Power supply
a b à CPUs
November 19, 2010 10:13:48 PM

So your case lacks the holes for ATX motherboards from the Diagram I posted for you above?

I do not know for certain if all mATX cases require a mATX PSU, I would think not due to how limited the availability of them. But the best thing I can say is if you have a mATX case is measure the PSU you have and compair them to the measurements of the two PSU's I linked you to and see if they will fit, almost all PSU's list the dimensions.

Both motherboards have almost the exact same features, the Asus has newer audio chip, and an extra SATA and a diffrent on-board audio, but thats about it.

I would say go with Asus, its $5 cheaper and just because I like thier brand and have always used them, but you cannot go wrong with either one really. The are really so similar you would have to go to the manufactures page and maybe see what special additions each has made, ie. unique features, extra software, things like that. Otherwise you could just go for what one you think looks best. :) 
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November 20, 2010 12:41:13 AM

Guess not sure what am looking for...says "ATX" model on psu. See four screws on the back of hard drive. Looks about same size as newegg ones you linked for me.

Also there's a good 3 or 4 inches to right of mobo, blank space. From your diagram does look like micro atx in there, but some room left. Should i be looking for screw holes or what. Dude says look on back of hdd and if only have 3 or 4 slots it's micro and more than that it's atx.
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November 20, 2010 12:59:17 AM

Hmmm...... I dont know about the advice you have been getting. :(  I think you are using the term "hard drive" incorrectly as your hard drive has nothing to do with this, do you mean your PC case or PSU?

If the PSU says ATX on it then it is a standard size PSU and you can replace it with any other ATX PSU, which the ones I linked to you are. I was suggesting you measure the dimensions of the PSU itself and cross check them with the dimensions of the ones I linked you to because I was not even considering the PSu would be labeled with mATX or ATX, and to ensure a proper fit in your case mesuring the PSU was a fool proff way of doing so.

Now for your motherboard, if you have that much space around you current motherboard you most likely can fit both mATX and ATX motherboards. And again you can find this out by looking at the diagram I provided and checking that you case has the ATX screw holes in it.

But either way it does not matter too much about if your case can support a ATX motherboard or not, as I said it really makes no difference at all besides one is smaller that the other and may cost a little less and may not have on-board video or other trivial feature. If you alread have a mATX motherboard and do not have a reason or desire to get a standard ATX, then you will be just fine staying with a mATX one.
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November 20, 2010 11:57:33 AM

Motherboard question, was more for learning. I like both boards from asus and gigabyte. Think stop reading feedback from buyers on newegg though. Most love both boards, but then you'll read a few that got two dead boards. Some have bios issues and won't "post" they called it Wonder if some are trying to fire up with low psu like me. Reading off testgeeks.com, both boards got 9 out of 10 rating.

So back to psu, seems antec or corsair are the fav's. Any other good brands, that are quality psu's of course. How about like Thermalake for example.
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November 20, 2010 2:01:40 PM

Top PSU's: Seasonic, Corsair, Antec, XFX, and PC Power & Cooling and possibly a few others.

Thermalake is a little lower down in the average catagory, they have several manufacturers that produce PSU's for them. If you are looking at a Thermaltake that you want check the link or the reviews and try to get one made by Channel Well Tech. One thing though is the top brands can be pricey and if you are woring on a budget you may have to settle for the average and not the top performers. Use the links to the review sites I posted for you a few up and just check out what they say about the PSU's you are interested in buying.

I think you may want to give this Tom's article a read, it has alot of good PSU information in it: Who's Who In Power Supplies: Brands, Labels, And OEMs. Sorry I cannot remember if had have givin you this link already as I refer alot of people to it, but here it is just in case.
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November 20, 2010 2:34:58 PM

Here is another link I just discovered reading another thread on Tom's: Eggxpert Tiered Power Supply List. It is quite a large list of PSU models and how they rank in quality and performance. It would hurt to give this a look through either.
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November 20, 2010 6:37:35 PM

So the mobo/bios debate. I see on my asus newegg page, that comes with manual, dvd/cd and sata cable etc. Should you just load the dvd and hope for the best?? Read some comments, that dude says to remove all your drivers thru device manager. 2nd: you have to reinstall your windows software?? Will your recovery disks still work, since different mobo?? Being a noob, thought all was on your hard drive.
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November 20, 2010 7:15:25 PM

Here is a Microsoft page describing thier method: How to replace the motherboard I would say to use the second method Microsoft lists for a failed motherboard, it will be easier but you still want to back up everything. Be aware, Doing a re-install of windows from the cd can erase some of your files, Do NOT format the drive when re-installing, unless you have everything you want backed up, ALL will be erased from the drive. It is wise to back up EVERYTHING either way.

The recovery disk will work if that is all you have with your PC, instead use a full windows copy. The recovery disk may try to install drivers for the old parts so watch out for that, it should ask you before it does "New Hardware Found" message. Removing all the drivers from device manager may work also, but I have never tried it, but if your going to do a fresh install of windows there is no need to do that.

Here is another guide which is more detailed: Reinstalling Windows XP

Let me know if your going to re-install your windows or use the device manager option, I can help you out either way you want to do it.
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November 20, 2010 7:37:13 PM

So reading your psu articles, very good info. Finding the right wattage in a Corsair or Antec...How important is getting a psu with one 12 volt rail vs, same wattage but getting a second 12 volt rail???
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November 20, 2010 7:43:13 PM

There is really no difference between a PSU with a single +12v rail or one that has 2 or more +12v rails. The most important factor when looking at two lets say 500w PSU's one with a single rail and one with double rails is the total amount of amps that the +12v rails can provide.

Wattage = Amps x Volts(12)
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November 20, 2010 8:02:10 PM

So this 6 pin pci-e connector. Never had one on my ati hd 4670. Is that select gpu's or did I miss something. Good to have on your psu???
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November 24, 2010 12:37:04 AM

The chief in psu's...I went with the Antec 430 watt psu, earthwatt model. It has a 80 plus cert. Along with Kingston hyper x ddr2 800 ram. Which will go on my asus mobo, and the Athlon II 640 propus.

What do you think?? Value your thoughts.
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November 24, 2010 1:52:14 AM

As for the 6-pin PCI-E power connector, if I remember correctly everything above the 4670(I use the 4670 512mb) required a PCI-E power connector, some of the low-end 5000 sreries may not and just take power from the PCI-E slot(75w), any mid-high GPU today will use one and the the higher cards use 2 or a combination of 6-pin ot 8-pin power connectors, really it just comes down to how much power they require to run and with modern GPU's almost all will use something like that.

As for the parts they look good, how much RAM did you get? And did you get the Asus motherboard you linked to above or something different?

And are you considering getting another GPU or are you going to stick with the 4670?
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November 24, 2010 4:23:17 AM

I bought the 430 watt earth antec psu and kingston hyper x ddr2 800 mhz ram. yes, getting the asus mobo and athon II 640 3.0 gb cpu. But after all that would like to upgrade the 4670 down the road. When dough allows. So give me any advice on that gpu upgrade. My 4670 thru gigabyte didn't have a 6 pin connector though. It was a 512 gpu though also.
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November 24, 2010 5:29:29 AM

I was asking what the motherboard model was that you are getting and the amount of RAM(2GB, 4GB)? The Antec 430w will run the 4670 without a problem, and so will the rest of your system.

You will have to determine how many watts your PC is using without the 4670 and that will let you know how much room your have left for a new GPU, you should be able to use any mid-range GPU out today such as the ATI6850, which will most likely have all the GFX power you need for gaming.

Put in your new PC specs here: http://www.antec.outervision.com/ , without the 4670, to see about how many watts your PC is using.
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November 24, 2010 6:57:54 PM

Sorry it's the ASUS M4A785-M micro atx. 4 dimm memory slots. The wattage without the 4670 shows 228 watts. GPU showed requireing 400 min to run. But thru research on tom's forums, runs just fine on my 300 psu.
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November 24, 2010 8:48:46 PM

Well thats good, I am glad that you have everything sorted out now. All thats left is to get your parts and build yourself a nice pc. :D 
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November 24, 2010 10:29:48 PM

Can I borrow the flux capacitor and travel to when I'm rich??


Thx for all your help.
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Best solution

a b ) Power supply
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November 24, 2010 10:36:48 PM

[:badge:5] LMAO!

"Stevie! I didn't invent the time machine for financial gain. The intent here is to gain a clearer perception of humanity: where we've been, where we're going, the pitfalls, the possibilities, the perils and the promise. Perhaps even an answer to that universal question: why?" - Doc Brown

Hey its not a problem, I am glad to help. :) 
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November 25, 2010 10:41:14 PM

Best answer selected by stevie44.
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December 2, 2010 8:12:35 PM

thechief73 said:
[:badge:5] LMAO!

"Stevie! I didn't invent the time machine for financial gain. The intent here is to gain a clearer perception of humanity: where we've been, where we're going, the pitfalls, the possibilities, the perils and the promise. Perhaps even an answer to that universal question: why?" - Doc Brown

Hey its not a problem, I am glad to help. :) 




So I got the Antec psu yesterday. Think should install in this system. It was more for the new asus mobo and amd quad core cpu. Make sure it works kind of thinking. Hope to have those last two parts by Jan 1st.
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!