Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

PCI-E 1X, any decent performers?

Tags:
  • Performance
  • Firewire
  • PCI Express
  • Components
  • Product
Last response: in Components
Share
November 19, 2010 1:54:10 PM

Hello,
Has anyone else noticed the absolutely terrible performance from PCI-E 1X cards? I've noticed with firewire and USB cards that the theoretical 250 MB/s is not even remotely approached. Framerates for firewire cameras are MUCH higher through standard PCI firewire boards than through any PCI-E boards I've tested. Same type of issues with USB boards. One site I've seen says the typical measurement is more like 7 MB/s. Seriously 7 out of 250, that's terrible! And PCI-E is supposed to have better performance the PCI. Have any of you had good luck with specific Firewire and/or USB boards that are PCI-E 1X? Also does anyone have any good tools for actually measuring this performance (other than camera frame rates, etc.)?

More about : pci decent performers

November 19, 2010 5:33:26 PM

Hello, and welcome to the Forum.

I have not seen PCI-E in a while and barley anyone i know uses it. If you need another card, get another one that is PCI-E 2.0.
m
0
l
November 29, 2010 11:55:06 AM

Thanks,
I only have gen1 slots available. The system is a Dell Precision R5400:
http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/precision-r5400/pd
I know that gen2 devices can go in gen1 slots, but will that really improve performance? I can't even find gen2 Firewire or USB cards (except for a few USB 3.0 cards).
m
0
l
Related resources
November 29, 2010 12:34:19 PM

It might work, though, bandwidth will be low.
m
0
l
November 29, 2010 1:23:37 PM

jlhodge said:
Thanks,
I only have gen1 slots available. The system is a Dell Precision R5400:
http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/precision-r5400/pd
I know that gen2 devices can go in gen1 slots, but will that really improve performance? I can't even find gen2 Firewire or USB cards (except for a few USB 3.0 cards).

Your computer is a rackmount server?

Has anyone else noticed the absolutely terrible performance from PCI-E 1X cards? I've noticed with firewire and USB cards that the theoretical 250 MB/s is not even remotely approached.

of course not. USB 2.0 itself is limited to a theoretical 60MB/s which in my experience never goes of 30MB/s. Nothing to do with PCI-e.

Framerates for firewire cameras are MUCH higher through standard PCI firewire boards than through any PCI-E boards I've tested. Same type of issues with USB boards. One site I've seen says the typical measurement is more like 7 MB/s. Seriously 7 out of 250, that's terrible! And PCI-E is supposed to have better performance the PCI. Have any of you had good luck with specific Firewire and/or USB boards that are PCI-E 1X? Also does anyone have any good tools for actually measuring this performance (other than camera frame rates, etc.)?
Your camera framerates are limited to what the camera supports. If you are using a webcam, that is often 16 frames per second. even 7MB/s is more than enough for 30 frames per second.
The speed is not dependant on PCI-e, it is dependant on the technology. The camera you say uses USB and firewire? It is likely limited to USB 2.0. Firewire I believe is faster than PCI-e 1x. But like I said earlier, the framerate is set for the camera, nothing to do with the bandwidth that pci-e or usb or firewire is capable of.

I am confused as to why you would purchase a seperate card though. Your computer already comes with 5 USB 2.0 ports.
Framerates for firewire cameras are MUCH higher through standard PCI firewire boards than through any PCI-E boards I've tested.
This of course contradicts what I have said. I have no answer for you there.

Here's your best option for under $60...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6814500164

Yes, this card will help with video games. I upgraded an old computer with an AGP card (even worse than PCEx1) and it worked great.

Huh? That's a video card. Regardless, that would be a horrible choice considering that 4650 can be had for the same price and his computer DOES have two PCI-e 16x slots.
m
0
l
December 1, 2010 5:16:10 PM

ahthurungnone:
Not looking for a video card... so many people see PCIe performance and assume video cards.

Enzo Matrix:
Your computer is a rackmount server?
I didn't say this was my personal computer... Though Dell likes to call it a
"rackmounted workstation"

of course not. USB 2.0 itself is limited to a theoretical 60MB/s which in my experience never goes of 30MB/s. Nothing to do with PCIe:
It does have something to do with it if you're using PCIe to connect to a USB or Firewire device and are getting such terrible performance through it that you are throttling the USB interface. Also keep in mind that you could be using multiple USB interfaces at full throughput and they have to share the PCIe


I am confused as to why you would purchase a seperate card though.
This system doesn't have Firewire, so that's what I'm mostly concerned with there. The reasons for using the USB card are a little more convoluted, but I basically am seeing the same PCIe limitation there.

I believe the problem may be related to there being an NEC PCIe to PCI bridge inside these 1X PCIe cards (just about every 1x PCIe card I've seen has an NEC chip on it). I think this may be hampering the effective performance of these cards.

I also want to point you to a comment by "Unhappy Buyer" on the following page:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=15-108-...
I'll quote it here in case the link breaks:

The Firewire 400 port on my Intel BOXD975XBX2KR mainboard can write data at about 25MB/Sec to WD MyBook Pro 500GB. I expected the card will give me 30+ MB/Sec or even faster wirting speed. However, the Firewire 800 port on this card is even slower than the Firewire 400. Its USB2 port can only write data at about 11MB/Sec, compare to average 17MB/Sec on most other USB2 port. What a garbage! I did my test in Windows Vista. It wasted my time and money.


I think this is a significant problem for ALL PCIe 1x cards (at least all of them that have the NEC chip on them, which is all I've seen). Does anyone have any counter examples?
Thanks.
m
0
l
December 1, 2010 5:55:02 PM

That is likely a vista problem the person was experiencing. vista had many many file copying problems.

there were even ones where all disc access was throttled to 10MB/sec if any multimedia app was open.
I reimaged my old laptop back to vista (no SP2) and it would only copy files from a dvd at 1.5MB/sec... vista WAS flake flake flaky although the latest service pack seems to have fixed this mostly... that comment was from 2007...

where did this 250MB/SEC come from? USB is 480MBITS(60MB) but I have never seen more than 32MB on a usb hdd.. including the same hdd that gets 90MB+ on esata.

note MB=megabyte Mb or Mbit = megabit

Your argument seems thrashy.
could you make some sort of logical argument with details .. and models of cards..
and even a few pics I'm sure you would get everyones attention. With your current argument its hard to determine what the problem is.
m
0
l
December 1, 2010 6:38:37 PM

rand_79:
That is likely a vista problem the person was experiencing. vista had many many file copying problems:
OK. Yet another reason not to touch Vista with a 10' pole. I'm using XP for all of my testing.


where did this 250MB/SEC come from?:
PCIe - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express


note MB=megabyte Mb or Mbit = megabit:
Yes, I know.


Your argument seems thrashy...:
Fair enough, I'll try to give more details here.
I've already said I was using a Dell Precision R5400 computer.
I'm using a PixeLINK firewire camera for these tests (same camera and test conditions between them)
With both a SIIG FireWire 800 3-Port PCIe card and a Belkin N10117 firewire and USB card (both PCIe) we saw about 20 frames per second from the camera.
Using a standard PCI firewire card (Belkin F5U502, http://www.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Product_...) we saw 60 frames per second.

Does anyone else have a good way to measure performance of one of these cards (Firewire and USB performance)? Guess I could try just measuring read/write speed on a USB or firewire drive.
m
0
l
December 2, 2010 5:13:36 AM

i have a p3 pc 933mhz 512mb sdram 3 pci slot no agp slot iwant to know if there is a video card for pci slot that can match the nvidia geforce fx5500 agp please help
m
0
l
December 2, 2010 5:33:08 PM

sergi_11 said:
i have a p3 pc 933mhz 512mb sdram 3 pci slot no agp slot iwant to know if there is a video card for pci slot that can match the nvidia geforce fx5500 agp please help

Don't post in this thread asking for help on something unrelated to what the original poster is talking about. It's not very considerate as it distracts us from answering the questions of the original poster. What you need to do is start your own thread with your question. A lot of people will be very happy to help. Including me when I see your new thread. :) 
m
0
l
December 8, 2010 5:32:06 PM

OK, so I did some testing of my own. I used a USB 2.0 hard drive to benchmark the transmission speed to the cache of the hard drive (used /usr/sbin/hdparm –T hdb under cygwin). All of these were done with the Dell Precision r5400 computer system with gen1 PCIe slot.

Onboard USB: 260 Mbps
IOGear GIC251U PCI USB 2.0 card: 173 Mbps
Belkin N10117 PCIe USB 2.0 and Firewire card: 148 Mbps
AVS Gear UG-USB720202PCIE PCIe USB 3.0 card: 272 Mbps

A link for the USB 3.0 card is here: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

So as you can see, the PCI and PCIe USB 2.0 cards are not performing particularly well. At first glance it doesn't make sense that the PCIe card is performing worse than the PCI, but if the PCIe card has a PCIe to PCI bridge in it, then this makes sense. I included the USB 3.0 PCIe card because I think it probably doesn't have a PCIe to PCI bridge in it (why would anyone make a USB 3.0 chip for PCI when PCI isn't even capable of handling the bandwidth for USB 2.0?)

Does this make sense? Are all Firewire and USB 2.0 PCIe cards built with a PCIe-to-PCI bridge?

I did a similar test with Firewire, but all cards (PCI and PCIe) showed the same results, which conflicts with my results with the PixeLINK camera. I'm still trying to understand that one.
m
0
l
December 9, 2010 4:21:27 AM

enzo matrix said:
Don't post in this thread asking for help on something unrelated to what the original poster is talking about. It's not very considerate as it distracts us from answering the questions of the original poster. What you need to do is start your own thread with your question. A lot of people will be very happy to help. Including me when I see your new thread. :) 

sorry enzo matrix i just got mistake in sending message not intended for you be cool bro
m
0
l
December 9, 2010 4:27:38 AM

:bounce:  cool bro im just a bigenner in ths kind problem you got mistake first after that you learn thats maybe we can be good friend share something about computers problems thats it
m
0
l
December 9, 2010 3:25:23 PM

sergi_11 said:
sorry enzo matrix i just got mistake in sending message not intended for you be cool bro

I'm cool. Didn't mean to sound mean or anything.
m
0
l
!