460 -- How well does it play with other GPUs?

[Alvin Smith]

The following is an excerpt from a PM thread, which I am currently engafed in ...

Any help, references or authoritative explaniations would help the greater community, much !!

THANK YOU !

~~~~~ SNIP ~~~~~

RESEARCH TOPIC OF THE DAY ....

As you know ... I have been advising on Pro Graphics/Edit rigs which means that I should have a very thourough and up-to-date knowlefge of the GPU and Apps landscape ...

... You, and a few others, have mentionned that the "460 will not combine with other cards" ...

... I need to find out ALL and EXACTLY what "THAT" does and does not mean ...

.... Among "True FERMIs" ... Among 460s ... and between "all mixes and lines" ...

... I need to know how this applies to (!) multi-mon ganging (2) CUDA and (3) SLI.

... AND ... I need to know if this/these "issues/limitations" are intentional or "under construction" ... and if drovers/firmware will fix or if a HW revision will be required.
... What is nVidia;s intention, their plan, their commitment, their schedule, on this matter?

... If you can point me towards any pertinent explanations, that would help me not to dispense any bad dope, amongst the troops.

... What (how deep) is your personal understanding, on "all this" ??

I would, at least like to understand the current limitations, fully and to find some way to monitor and anticipate any possible progress or comfirmation of any change in status, on this issue.

= Al =

 

[lowriderflow]

You're posting was full of random throughts... but essentially what you need to understand is that only identical cards can be SLI'd. So you can SLI two GTX460s(which is awesome performance)... but you CANNOT SLI a GTX460 with a GTX470.

*on a side note... you can SLI differeent brands as long as they are the same card. I.E. you buy an EVGA 460 now and later buy an MSI 460, they'll be fine. If they are running at different clocks (example: one is a regular, one is a superclock... they will default and both run at the speed of the slowest)

 

[Alvin Smith]

You're posting was full of random throughts... but essentially what you need to understand is that only identical cards can be SLI'd. So you can SLI two GTX460s(which is awesome performance)... but you CANNOT SLI a GTX460 with a GTX470.

*on a side note... you can SLI differeent brands as long as they are the same card. I.E. you buy an EVGA 460 now and later buy an MSI 460, they'll be fine. If they are running at different clocks (example: one is a regular, one is a superclock... they will default and both run at the speed of the slowest)

yup ... Those have always "been the rules", for SLI ... Nothing has changed, there, with the coming of the 460 and, I would add that, when SLI'ng two "similar" cards ... the faster of the two will step down and synch with the slower.

... But SLI is the VERY least of my inquiry ... this question is really about Multi-monitor ganging (3 or more monitors) with dissimilar cards ... that, and about Combined CUDA compute modes, anongst dissimilar nVidia cards ... because I frequently advise on Pro-Graphics/Edit rigs (usually non Quadro).

= A; =

 

[4745454b]

Multi monitor gaming in its easiest form will require an SLI setup of cards from Nvidia. So the normal SLI rules apply. Nvidia chose to implement a software version of Eyefinity as opposed to a hardware one. If you want to game across all the screens that what you'll need to do. (unless you want to old school hack .ini files like the flight sim people have been doing for years.)

I haven't played with CUDA so I can't help with the other part.

 

[Alvin Smith]

Ok ... Thanks ... So we have now covered SLI and Gaming ... And the rules are the same as always.

What about multi-monitor productivity and multi-mon graphics and NLE ?

PS ... the idea that nVidia is somehow trying to "copy" or emulate Eye-finity is the funniest joke i have heard since I came here. ATi is almost a decade behind nVidia in multi-monitor solutions for "real apps" ... Eyefinity cannot even run a monitor off the second GPU (ports). There is nobody using Eyefinity for engineering/CAD or Graphics/Edit, that I have ever heqard of ...

... C'mon guys ... was my OP THAT obtuse ? ... Do you not understand WHY I am asking?

I am trying to find out how and why the 460 does not behave exactly like all nVidia cards that came before it ... as when mixing different models of GeForce, and/or Qudros, for multi-monitor and CUDA apps.

What is it that other nVidia cards WILL do (in terms of multi-GPU configs), that the 460 does not and ... how & why (if this is known).

= Al =

 

[4745454b]

I see no reason why you can't use Eyefinity with CAD programs. I personally wouldn't because you have a much better chance getting a program to work with CUDA speeding up applying filters, etc than you'd get using an AMD card. A single 5750 driving three 30" monitors in CAD might be nice, but if you can get things to draw faster with your GTS250 SLI surround setup why wouldn't you? Until OpenCL/AMD gets something similar to CUDA working in the professional world they will remain at a disadvantage.

I am trying to find out how and why the 460 does not behave exactly like all nVidia cards that came before it ...What is it that other nVidia cards WILL do (in terms of multi-GPU configs), that the 460 does not and ... how & why

Perhaps its the amount of alcohol in my system right now, but I have no clue what your asking. The GTX460 behaves just like all the other Nvidia cards that have come before it. The only difference is its one of the better price vs performance vs power cards that Nvidia has out right now. Its performance is high, the price not so much, with power usage that isn't outrageous. (though for a mid range card when compared to AMD it is really high.) Perhaps if you phrased your question in a different light (or just flat out PM me what your looking for) we can provide a better answer?

 

[Alvin Smith]

This is a discussion for the open forums because there is (has been) WAYYY TOO MUCH BS surrounding the subject of "Quadro alternatives for Pro CAD/NLE/Graphics".

The walls of the old "Exclusive Marketing Preisthoods" are starting to crack.

Every day, the common pro-sumer has a better chance of affording "functional access" to professional multimedia environments, if not pro codecs and formats.

Audio "workstation environments" have been "democratically accessible", to the masses, since the first offerings of CakeWalk and Tascam Porta-Studios ...

This sort of democratization has been much slower to emerge, for the creation of "quality video content", and in other pro-graphics and engineering environments.

So ... I am very interested in any product that offers affordable access to the most people (to us all), to ensure "free speech" and the free proliferation and communication of concepts and ideas ... for everyone ... in this new age, where multimedia content IS "THE NEW GLOBAL LITERACY".

it was once the case that anyone who wanted to make a film in the USA had no other choice than to buy film-stock from KODAK ... they were the only game in town ... and, pretty much, the world ... at that time. If KODAK did not want your movie to get made ... then, it was not going to happen.

The new preisthood(s) are now represented by "partner alliances" and enforced thru artificially exclusive "system and parts certifications", and the like.

And, just like "jail-breaking" an iPhone or an X-Box, many folks, in the early 2000s, took to soft-modding GeForce cards into Psuedo-Quadros to combat these barriers to public access. ... To mainstream affordability.

These are not technical barriers ... These are exclusive marketing strategies.

So ... I want to know whatever I can about the limitations of the 460 .. OKay ?

= Al =

 

[w0lfattack]

It appears to be the end of the summer college semester. Why don't you take your hasty demands straight to nvidia? They will probably be glad to give a student legitimate information and resources.

~Please excuse me if I am mistaken as 95% of what you're saying sounds to be research paper excerpts or class notes.

 

[Griffolion]

I am trying to find out how and why the 460 does not behave exactly like all nVidia cards that came before it ... as when mixing different models of GeForce, and/or Qudros, for multi-monitor and CUDA apps.

As far as im aware the 460 is no different in any way to other Nvidia cards, it SLI's (albeit restricted to 2 way only), has CUDA, Physx etc. If you're wanting something for CAD on multi-monitors then an SLI 460 setup would be fine but be aware that Nvidia crippled the FP 64 compute function by about 75% on non-quaddro Fermi cards, so if you need a full 500 GLOPS of power processing then you may need Quaddro. Otherwise ATI Eyefinity should be fine too, perhaps 2 5850's in crossfire would be good.

But you've confused us all as to what you're asking. Not only are you insulting us and threatning to go to different forums, you are literally making very little sense. So to be honest, i strongly suggest you go to another forum because your lack of sensibilities don't appear to be mixing with us.

 

[Alvin Smith]

I'll take that as a compliment.

I am 50 years old ... I am an avid researcher on topics of multimedia content generation, and I am a cheap bassard. ... I have wasted a lot of money trying to get a decent volume and quality of output. Things seem much brighter, today, than they did when I built my P4-NLE, 5 years ago ... I doubt I will live to see 65 years of age ... or 60, even ... So, I am anxious to have more affordability and less complexity ... It really is just about that simple ... and ... I have grown very cynical, regarding the whole "exclusive marketing thing" ... nVidia ain't gonna give me a straight answer, when a mere soft-mod will turn a $100 card into a $400 card.

And, if you are not familiar with the marketing "practices" of partners, like AVID technologies, who left me holding the bag, with nothing to show, save one VERY expensive purple dongle ... you would "understand", where I am coming from.

= Shut Out =

 

[jyjjy]

The incoherence is one thing but the condescending follow up is another. This person is either a very odd troll or has an inability to communicate clearly on a spectacular level...

@OP: For your sake I really hope english isn't your native language. If it is I hope that you aren't addicted to the drugs you are on. When they wear off figure out what your actual question is and ask us in a clear and concise manner with a better attitude.

 

[Alvin Smith]

As far as im aware the 460 is no different in any way to other Nvidia cards, it SLI's (albeit restricted to 2 way only), has CUDA, Physx etc. If you're wanting something for CAD on multi-monitors then an SLI 460 setup would be fine but be aware that Nvidia crippled the FP 64 compute function by about 75% on non-quaddro Fermi cards, so if you need a full 500 GLOPS of power processing then you may need Quaddro. Otherwise ATI Eyefinity should be fine too, perhaps 2 5850's in crossfire would be good.

But you've confused us all as to what you're asking. Not only are you insulting us and threatning to go to different forums, you are literally making very little sense. So to be honest, i strongly suggest you go to another forum because your lack of sensibilities don't appear to be mixing with us.

And you are now speakinf for the entire forum and thinking that you have the ownership to "run me off" ??? LoL !

I'll admit ... i am getting VERY frustrated with this whole topic, if not the forum ... The fact is that there HAVE BEEN (some( published reports of "limited interoperability", with the 460s, that do not exist with ANY other nVidia cards ... I have not seen that/those article(s), but they DO exist and i was just trying to get a handle on that.

I KNOW that the good folks, on this forum are as helpful as they "can be" ... I also regret that that falls far short of any fruitful explanation, when it comes to ganging more than two monitors, or combined CUDA compute resources, for Pro-Graphics, CAD, and NLE.

No ... it does NOT surprise me that this forum comes up (completely) dry, on those subjects ... I blame the industry ... NOT the grat folks, on this forum.

Yes ... I really should be over on the ADOBE forums ... was hoping the knowledge or the "talent" existed here, ... that;s all. ... Honestly, I don't expect much more from them ... This dearth of clarity is entirely intentional ... Get a Quadro, or get stuffed ... If you cannot afford a Quadro, you are not qualified to participate in global literacy.

Thank GOD for VEGAS !

 

[Alvin Smith]

Best answer selected by Alvin Smith.

 

[Alvin Smith]

The incoherence is one thing but the condescending follow up is another. This person is either a very odd troll or has an inability to communicate clearly on a spectacular level...

@OP: For your sake I really hope english isn't your native language. If it is I hope that you aren't addicted to the drugs you are on. When they wear off figure out what your actual question is and ask us in a clear and concise manner with a better attitude.

Sure guys ... whatever ... thank you so much for nothing.

moderator ... please lock/delete, whatever ... this thread was ill-conceived, to be certain.

 

[jyjjy]

Go on blaming everyone but yourself but yes, do it elsewhere.

 

[Alvin Smith]

Yeah ... my tone was suicide ... for sure ... and the only blame I am "placing" here is on a less than generous marketing stance, where pro products are concerned.

Partly, I am hoping that compute power will do some catching-up, with regard to software requirements and codec densities.

jyjjy ... trashing my character and implying substance abuse is not going to make up for your lack of knowledge, but your reaction was totally predictable, considering my "fuzzy" OP and my really bad attitude ... I apologize for what very little that is worth ... I would definately go for a complete do-over, if I could get the thermal-paste, back into the syringe ... fat chance of that.

... Still ... I did have a legitimate reason for my original post, even if i was lazy, and it was not clear ... I did not come here to troll for flames or arguments ... I came to find out if anyone here knows of any 460-specific limitations ... Thr answer that i am hearing is "What specific limitations ?? ... NO." . ... OK ... Thank you all and I am sorry for the bad rub ...

... If you can ... Please do try to understand that even tremendously wonderful and friendly guys, such as Alvin Smith, get a little frustarated and cranky, at times ... and lip-off.

... I swear that there IS some substance to those published reviews/reports that I mentionned.

... Yeah ... I need to get some sleep ... I hope you will get over my rudeness and give me a fresh start, next time we meet.

= g'nite =