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Ati??? nvidia??? Aaarrgghhh!!!!!

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July 27, 2010 10:54:51 AM

hello everybody...

recently i'm building a new mobo consists of intel core i5 - 750 and asus p7p55d motherboard.... but my graphics cards are still the once-famed 8800gt...

which is 3-4 years old architecture.... i don't really had any problem using old stuff... until i found out that in some games it really started to show its age....
so i think its time for me to upgrade my gpu... i had done some research on the web and finally comes up with the list of graphics cards which is within my radar...

1)Gigabyte HD 5870 (because it is ati current flagship gpu that offers top performance, besides most of brand sold in my state are gigabyte and asus... and gigabyte is cheaper than asus...)

2)palit gtx 470 dual fan edition (since most of the gpu sold by vendor is nvidia reference... it runs hotter.. noisier.. thankfully palit is the 1st to
release custom design with better cooler alternatives... and also sold cheaper)

3)gtx 480 (most probably i won't buy it because it is the baddest, even much more expensive than HD 5870... and its top heatsink that penetrate the top
plastic shroud.. it scares me coz this beast runs way hotter than any chip you can found in other products)


but unfortunately... my quest comes into short because i couldn't decide which 1 should i go....

1) i would really like to go with HD 5870 because any player in this world would told me to... besides its performance numbers showed that it performed close to gtx 480 if not surpassing it...

but at much lower prices... but... correct me if i'm wrong... the only reason why i dislikes ati is because
they had a very poor driver support... and yes they had the most energy efficient and powerful gpu in the world...

but its software and driver support leaves a lot to be desired...
and also games tend to favour nvidia hardware which i don't know why

2) gtx 470... its power of tessellation ... physX... performance with AA and compatibility with games on makes me wanna try this... but unfortunately
it consumes even more power than the top dog HD 5870... and runs hotter too... which is i worried the most

3) okay.. even if i really going the gtx 480 route... the only question remain... i'm now using cooler master centurion 5 II chassis...
is it okay or should i say... safe with the hot gtx 480 inside that chassis... because i'm afraid its high temperature affect my other component...


i already searching here and there for two months.. and yet stil no decision... i so desperately need someone... just someone who can offer any
constructive advice and not just any plain talk that ended up nowhere... please... anyone? i really want to solve this dilema for good... i really need help here... and sorry for being mouthful...

More about : ati nvidia aaarrgghhh

July 27, 2010 11:10:45 AM

go for the HD 5870 , it performes close to the gtx 480 and is way cheaper. I don't see any reasons for taking up other choices.
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a c 153 U Graphics card
July 27, 2010 11:12:27 AM

Ever thought about sli 460 1GB? Cheaper then and performs better then the 480.
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a b U Graphics card
July 27, 2010 11:14:30 AM

Yeah, SLI 460s are the best value option right now. assuming a compatible mobo and PSU, you can get performance close to (and in some cases surpassing) a 5970, for the price of a 5870.
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a c 153 U Graphics card
July 27, 2010 11:15:31 AM

^+1, his motherboard supports, not sure what PSU he has though.
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a c 376 U Graphics card
July 27, 2010 11:17:35 AM

Yes, your motherboard is SLI so 2 GTX 460s is definitely the best deal for the money.
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a b U Graphics card
July 27, 2010 11:34:22 AM

+1 for SLI'ing GTX 460's, you'll need a 750W decent brand PSU though.
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a c 376 U Graphics card
July 27, 2010 12:02:27 PM

650w would probably be alright actually but yeah, a 750w for some breathing room perhaps.
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July 27, 2010 6:32:02 PM

get teh 460s.
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July 27, 2010 8:26:22 PM

Helltech said:
Ever thought about sli 460 1GB? Cheaper then and performs better then the 480.


+1
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July 27, 2010 11:12:03 PM

460 SLI is your best bet. With a new case (Cooler M HAF X and a couple of fans) you could go for the 470 or 480 without any cooling problems.

I wouldn't buy the EVGA 460's (a lot of bucks your paying for a theoretical "life-time" warranty). I'd go for the Magnificent MSI 460 1 GB cards...
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July 28, 2010 10:57:28 AM

1st of all... thanks for all those advice that y'all gave....

i never thought about using SLI or gtx 460 before hearing from y'all...

i'm using cooler master silent pro m 850 watts psu... so that should be more than enough right??

there a problem... i search asus website about my asus p7p55d it only stated that it support crossfire x and nothing mentioned about SLI...

also... from what i knew about my current lga 1156 system was it only provides dual 8x lanes during multi-gpu configuration..
isn't that going to leave a huge impact on my performance even my motherboard can use SLI?
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a b U Graphics card
July 28, 2010 11:05:55 AM

If its intel, it should support both SLI and CrossfireX. yes, the PSU is plenty, and no 8x is not going to bottleneck you.
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a c 153 U Graphics card
July 28, 2010 11:30:39 AM

phenom90 said:
1st of all... thanks for all those advice that y'all gave....

i never thought about using SLI or gtx 460 before hearing from y'all...

i'm using cooler master silent pro m 850 watts psu... so that should be more than enough right??

there a problem... i search asus website about my asus p7p55d it only stated that it support crossfire x and nothing mentioned about SLI...

also... from what i knew about my current lga 1156 system was it only provides dual 8x lanes during multi-gpu configuration..
isn't that going to leave a huge impact on my performance even my motherboard can use SLI?


No 8x doesn't hurt your performance that much, maybe 5 percent tops.

As for your board I looked it up the other day before even suggesting the 460s... However I guess there are a lot of p7p55ds and I could have looked up the wrong one,and it looks like one of them does NOT support SLI suprisingly... The ones I looked up before did.

So if this is yours

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

If yours is just the plain P7P55D not P7P55D LX, P7P55D Pro, P7P55D Deluxe, or P7P55D EVO, then I guess it can NOT support SLI, which is both odd and kind of sucks.

The P7P55D LX only has one PCI-e slot.
The P7P55D EVO supports Quad SLI and Quad Fire
The P7P55D-E Deluxe supports Quad SLI and Quad Fire
The P7P55D Pro supports Quad SLI and Quad Fire
The P7P55D-E Pro supports Quad SLI and Quad Fire
The P7P55D Deluxe supports Quad SLI and Quad Fire
The P7P55D Premium supports Quad SLI and Quad Fire
The P7P55D-E Premium supports Quad SLI and Quad Fire
The P7P55D-E EVO supports Quad Sli and Quad Fire
The P7P55D supports Quad Fire
The P7P55D LE supports Quad Fire

EDIT, there I looked them up for you, you can see how I messed up and didn't realize there were P7P55D boards that didn't support SLI as almost all of them do, and I'm sorry for that. I usually don't give advice without doing homework, but I guess this time I made a mistake.
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July 29, 2010 10:42:13 AM

it's okay... no need to sorry because there are just too many models being produced between last year and this year...
last year was only p55 chipset... and then they introduced revised models equipped with new sata 6gb and usb 3.0...
i know it can be very confusing...

unfortunately... there's no SLI for my p55 chipset... so any advice or ideas that you guys can offer?? because i'm really
stuck in there... still thinking which next GPU that i'll buy... i'm really need some help for this...
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a b U Graphics card
July 29, 2010 10:50:03 AM

Don't sli or crossfire, it's not worth it. Even today there are too many issues in too many games.

Go with the faster single card.
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a b U Graphics card
July 29, 2010 10:57:48 AM

eyefinity said:
Don't sli or crossfire, it's not worth it. Even today there are too many issues in too many games.

Go with the faster single card.


I would love to see some evidence of this. As most modern games have no issues whatsoever, i fond this statement to be very misleading.

not that its on topic anymore, OP has already stated he cannot SLI.

@ OP, i would go for either a 5850, or 5870 then. great performance at a reasonable price, and without the heat and power issues of the 470/480.
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a c 376 U Graphics card
July 29, 2010 11:49:11 AM

^+1
Just OC an HD5850 if you can't SLI. The Asus DirectCU version would be an excellent choice.
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a b U Graphics card
July 29, 2010 3:00:27 PM

welshmousepk said:
I would love to see some evidence of this. As most modern games have no issues whatsoever, i fond this statement to be very misleading.


http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/07/12/nvidia_geforc...

Quote:
Raw performance numbers aside, there were some differences in the character of gameplay that I would like to address here. None of this is uncommon with SLI (or even CrossFireX), but I think it is worth repeating. Though the GTX 460 SLI setup gave us higher framerates across the board than the GTX 480, the GTX 480 in some places we experienced a more fluid gameplay quality. With SLI, there is a certain amount of overhead involved in managing the two video cards, dividing workload, and copying data between them. At the worst of times, this can result in diminished potential. It was most noticeable in Singularity, wherein there was noticeable input lag with the GTX 460 SLI setup. It wasn’t particularly severe, and it did not render that configuration unplayable, but it was there and you could "feel" it. Of course, Singularity had another performance anomaly as shown in our graph above, so it could be related. Metro 2033 and BFBC2 were affected somewhat as well, but it was less severe. Framerates are not the end all be all to performance when playing with SLI and CrossFireX, you truly have to pay attention to fluidity, responsiveness and consistency of the game as you play.


This is well known and if you ever had sli or crossfire you'd know about it. It is much more common than you think, framerates on a graph don't tell this full story.

Your statement is the misleading one.
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a c 271 U Graphics card
July 29, 2010 3:55:04 PM

eyefinity said:
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/07/12/nvidia_geforc...

Quote:
Raw performance numbers aside, there were some differences in the character of gameplay that I would like to address here. None of this is uncommon with SLI (or even CrossFireX), but I think it is worth repeating. Though the GTX 460 SLI setup gave us higher framerates across the board than the GTX 480, the GTX 480 in some places we experienced a more fluid gameplay quality. With SLI, there is a certain amount of overhead involved in managing the two video cards, dividing workload, and copying data between them. At the worst of times, this can result in diminished potential. It was most noticeable in Singularity, wherein there was noticeable input lag with the GTX 460 SLI setup. It wasn’t particularly severe, and it did not render that configuration unplayable, but it was there and you could "feel" it. Of course, Singularity had another performance anomaly as shown in our graph above, so it could be related. Metro 2033 and BFBC2 were affected somewhat as well, but it was less severe. Framerates are not the end all be all to performance when playing with SLI and CrossFireX, you truly have to pay attention to fluidity, responsiveness and consistency of the game as you play.


This is well known and if you ever had sli or crossfire you'd know about it. It is much more common than you think, framerates on a graph don't tell this full story.

Your statement is the misleading one.

Having recently completed that game on my 8800GT SLi rig and not noticing this input lag they speak of I would say that they are being a bit misleading themselves as they are dealing with brand new cards on brand new drivers and as such they can't be used as "the" yardstick for dual GPU performance as a whole.
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July 29, 2010 4:27:38 PM

go for the 5870......although it has a bit(very small),performance drop on comparison to the 480's.......the fps diff happens at 100+ fps...and it goes unnnoticed by the human eye
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July 30, 2010 11:02:29 AM

i know 5870 is the best card that can fit in my wallet... but how about the palit gtx 470 dual fan edition??
is that isn't really worth buying it?? or even mentioning it??


i'm not trying to put ATI aside... but there is something that really bothers me during my last rig with core 2 duo e8400
and hd 4850......

i know 5870 is a total different thing but.....

during my use with hd 4850... i played THE SABOTEUR games and found out that it really slows down than when i used my
8800gt... although i didn't tried any benhmark for that game but it turned out even worse when i tried the game with the 4850 with 4x AA... i suspect that time its driver may be the cause for that...

from what i know ati driver often had bugs and not that reliable... correct me if i'm wrong...

can anybody that who now use 5870 tell me about this??

because the last thing that i want to experience from a top notch card is it inconsistent driver...
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a c 153 U Graphics card
July 30, 2010 11:09:27 AM

Mousemonkey said:
Having recently completed that game on my 8800GT SLi rig and not noticing this input lag they speak of I would say that they are being a bit misleading themselves as they are dealing with brand new cards on brand new drivers and as such they can't be used as "the" yardstick for dual GPU performance as a whole.


Agreed I just beat Singularity on my 260s SLI and I never noticed a problem.

SLI is getting better everyday and I've never had a problem with it, hell I can play old games even and I've never had a problem.
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a c 376 U Graphics card
July 30, 2010 12:08:35 PM

phenom90 said:
during my use with hd 4850... i played THE SABOTEUR games and found out that it really slows down than when i used my 8800gt... although i didn't tried any benhmark for that game but it turned out even worse when i tried the game with the 4850 with 4x AA... i suspect that time its driver may be the cause for that..

Certain games will favor either Nvidia or ATI hardware. The HD4850 and 8800GT are not so far apart in performance that that you shouldn't expect to see better performance in certain Nvidia friendly games on the 8800GT.
As for the drivers in general the HD5000 had a few issues at launch but they have been dealt with for a while now.
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August 1, 2010 1:39:05 AM

since you guys never mentioned about gtx 470... perhaps it really isn't worth buying it.... anyway... thanks for you guys... even though not 100 % sure yet which one to buy but i'll let you guys know once i got one...
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a b U Graphics card
August 1, 2010 2:06:23 AM

the 470 and 480 are not very popular at the moment. too hot and too power hungry.

the newer GF104 architecture looks like it will be excellent though, evidenced by the love of the GTX460.
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a b U Graphics card
August 1, 2010 2:11:58 AM

welshmousepk said:
the 470 and 480 are not very popular at the moment. too hot and too power hungry.

the newer GF104 architecture looks like it will be excellent though, evidenced by the love of the GTX460.

The GTX460 isnt "excellent", definitely better than GF100, but a far from being an excellent GPU. Definitely not how some people are regarding it as.

It is very competitive for the price though.
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August 1, 2010 2:16:19 AM

do you guys think nvidia will produce a even better solution for replacing 480 with its GF 104 architecture??
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August 1, 2010 2:17:38 AM

i'm now using centurion 5 ii case... do you guys think it can fit a radeon hd 5870??
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a b U Graphics card
August 1, 2010 2:18:35 AM

phenom90 said:
do you guys think nvidia will produce a even better solution for replacing 480 with its GF 104 architecture??

There is a chance Nvidia would do a GTX475 with the full GF104 die clocked higher, but thats probably it as GF100b is probably reserved for the die-shrink of GF100.
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August 1, 2010 2:23:00 AM

but that's not going to happen at least until next year from my point of view...
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a b U Graphics card
August 1, 2010 2:34:32 AM

phenom90 said:
but that's not going to happen at least until next year from my point of view...

It could happen as early as October/November, but definitely not soon as Nvidia is trying to roll out their GF106/108 first before updating the high-end.

If youre willing to wait so long however, the HD6000 should be out by then.

The GTX480 should fit in you case, the GTX285 fits in there just fine and its the same length (10.5").
That case should swallow everything except a HD5970.
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a b U Graphics card
August 1, 2010 2:38:13 AM

Timop said:
The GTX460 isnt "excellent", definitely better than GF100, but a far from being an excellent GPU. Definitely not how some people are regarding it as.

It is very competitive for the price though.

There are about a dozen reviews that conclude it is excellent. I think its you who is not 'accepting' the evidence.
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a b U Graphics card
August 1, 2010 2:43:54 AM

There is nothing wrong with the GTX 470 or GTX 480, its just that your motherboard supports crossfire and not SLI so there is no reason to go that route. If your motherboard supported SLI and you didn't feel like going with the GTX 460 SLI because you want the potential for more performance down the road, then the GTX 470 would be the clear choice.

Most of these "it uses too much and power and is too hot" comments are just stupid to begin with. Especially since they forget to mention the near 5870 performance for $50-$100 less, greater than 5870 performance with tessellation (the main feature of DX11), equal or greater overclocking potential with more performance per clock, and the much better scaling of two card SLI rather than two card crossfire.
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a b U Graphics card
August 1, 2010 2:44:14 AM

notty22 said:
There are about a dozen reviews that conclude it is excellent. I think its you who is not 'accepting' the evidence.

Tell me how its "excellent"
Does it blow anything away from ATI"? No.
Does it have better Performance/Watt than Evergreen? No.
Does it introduce anything revolutionary? No.

The only reason its was deemed "excellent" by reviewers is because it is the "first" truly competitive card from Nvidia ever since ATI released the HD5870/5850 ten months ago, and it shut the people who said Fermi was a big unsalvageable mess that fried eggs.

:bounce: 
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a b U Graphics card
August 1, 2010 2:45:13 AM

[ Conclusion ]
The new Nvidia GeForce GTX 460 graphics cards appear to be real winners, as they deliver greater performance per dollar than their ATI rivals while giving up nothing on the power and heat front.
http://www.legionhardware.com/articles_pages/palit_inno...

So yes, the GeForce GTX 460 does herald NVIDIA’s coming return to greatness. It is definitely a great video card, and we really just can’t wait to see what NVIDIA’s Value-Add partners can do with it.
NVIDIA wasn’t lying when they said this was an "Overclocker’s Dream" video card. We think a lot of hardware enthusiasts and gamers alike are going to find great value out of the $199 GTX 460 768MB version. This video card seems to provide the best bang for the buck and provides a lot of headroom and performance advantages when you apply overclocking. This is an exciting video card.
This is a truly fabulous video card. Its performance either matches or outpaces the competition from AMD. It consumes relatively little power, especially under full load. Its fan keeps it cool and quiet. And frankly, it overclocks like no video card we’ve seen before.
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/07/12/nvidia_geforc...

At the end of the day NVIDIA has created a very powerful card for a market that has been overlooked for most of this year, and right now they’re setup to benefit from it. The GTX 460 is well priced, well performing, and cool running - 3 qualities we haven’t been able to attribute all at once to an NVIDIA card in quite some time. With launches and pricing like the GTX 460, the competitive landscape that we enjoyed through 2008 and 2009 is finally taking shape once more, and we couldn’t be happier.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/3809/nvidias-geforce-gtx-...

And if I add in the conclusions from the sli article where this EXCELLENT gpu can take on the ATI's 700 dollar top card, there is no doubt, that this is a excellent gpu.
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a b U Graphics card
August 1, 2010 2:51:12 AM

Does it blow anything away from ATI? Yeah the 5830 and the price/performance crown.
Does it have better performance/watt than evergreen? No, but does 10-20w really matter when you get a better price/performance ratio instead?
Does it introduce anything revolutionary? Cuda and 3D vision while they both can support an Eyefinity setup and DX10.

How about some more:

When you combine two, does it beat out any other single card for less money? Yes
Does it beat out the 5850 with extreme tessellation? Yes

You get the point.
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a b U Graphics card
August 1, 2010 2:51:53 AM

notty22 said:
[ Conclusion ]
The new Nvidia GeForce GTX 460 graphics cards appear to be real winners, as they deliver greater performance per dollar than their ATI rivals while giving up nothing on the power and heat front.
http://www.legionhardware.com/articles_pages/palit_inno...

So yes, the GeForce GTX 460 does herald NVIDIA’s coming return to greatness. It is definitely a great video card, and we really just can’t wait to see what NVIDIA’s Value-Add partners can do with it.
NVIDIA wasn’t lying when they said this was an "Overclocker’s Dream" video card. We think a lot of hardware enthusiasts and gamers alike are going to find great value out of the $199 GTX 460 768MB version. This video card seems to provide the best bang for the buck and provides a lot of headroom and performance advantages when you apply overclocking. This is an exciting video card.
This is a truly fabulous video card. Its performance either matches or outpaces the competition from AMD. It consumes relatively little power, especially under full load. Its fan keeps it cool and quiet. And frankly, it overclocks like no video card we’ve seen before.
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/07/12/nvidia_geforc...

:o 

If a card with "performance either matches or outpaces the competition" and "consumes relatively little power" is considered "excellent", I have not idea what your standard are.
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a b U Graphics card
August 1, 2010 2:55:09 AM

Timop said:
:o 

If a card with "performance either matches or outpaces the competition" and "consumes relatively little power" is considered "excellent", I have not idea what your standard are.


If a card that gives you the best gaming experience for the least amount of money in both a single card setup as well as a dual card setup, while using a very acceptable amount of power, overclocking very well with great returns, and sharing the Fermi architectures unparalleled tessellation performance and SLI scaling is not excellent to you then nothing else is, was, or ever will be.
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a b U Graphics card
August 1, 2010 2:57:15 AM

Timop said:
:o 

If a card with "performance either matches or outpaces the competition" and "consumes relatively little power" is considered "excellent", I have not idea what your standard are.



From what I've read of your posts your logic is based on Fanboi points. We are supposed to consider a product not released by ATI yet, whether this gpu is good or not ? rofl
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a b U Graphics card
August 1, 2010 2:57:24 AM

AMW1011 said:
Does it blow anything away from ATI? Yeah the 5830 and the price/performance crown.
Does it have better performance/watt than evergreen? No, but does 10-20w really matter when you get a better price/performance ratio instead?
Does it introduce anything revolutionary? Cuda and 3D vision while they both can support an Eyefinity setup and DX10.

How about some more:

When you combine two, does it beat out any other single card for less money? Yes
Does it beat out the 5850 with extreme tessellation? Yes

You get the point.

CUDA is revolutionary? it has been out since what, the 8800GT? Nvidia still cant power 3 monitors with one card can they?
SLI scaling and tessellation is something the GTX470/480 already introduced, so you can NOT say the GTX460 revolutionized it.

When a review of an excellent card is filled with "relative", "matches" and "marginally", I wonder whats a truely excellent card going to be called, Ubermegawonderful?

You get MY point?
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August 1, 2010 2:57:24 AM

gtx 480... it definitely can fit in my centurion 5 ii case... but do you think its going to have heat issues?? my case isn't very good in terms of cooling performance??
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a b U Graphics card
August 1, 2010 3:01:02 AM

notty22 said:
From what I've read of your posts your logic is based on Fanboi points. We are supposed to consider a product not released by ATI yet, whether this gpu is good or not ? rofl

Very Ironic hearing that from you.
So when I'm not lauding every card that Nvidia makes as "excellent" and "revolutionary", I'm a fanboy?

Whatever, I NEVER said that the GTX460 isnt a good and competitive card. I'm just sick of people thinking its the best card ever and "excellent" and recommending it not matter what the actual need is.

It is defined as
Quote:
possessing outstanding quality or superior merit; remarkably good.
you know
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a c 172 U Graphics card
August 1, 2010 3:04:54 AM

if you can wait till the end of the year, ATI are expected to release more cards. If not get the 5870. If you need physx support you can always use your 8800gt as a physx card.
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a b U Graphics card
August 1, 2010 3:05:46 AM

AMW1011 said:
If a card that gives you the best gaming experience for the least amount of money in both a single card setup as well as a dual card setup, while using a very acceptable amount of power, overclocking very well with great returns, and sharing the Fermi architectures unparalleled tessellation performance and SLI scaling is not excellent to you then nothing else is, was, or ever will be.

Sure, If you think so. :kaola: 
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a b U Graphics card
August 1, 2010 3:21:55 AM

phenom90 said:
gtx 480... it definitely can fit in my centurion 5 ii case... but do you think its going to have heat issues?? my case isn't very good in terms of cooling performance??

Apparently with the new BIOS, the heat problem has been relieved a lot.
I wont stress it if you have decent airflow, and running a single card. You can always turn the fan up manually.
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a b U Graphics card
August 1, 2010 3:39:09 AM

Timop said:
CUDA is revolutionary? it has been out since what, the 8800GT? Nvidia still cant power 3 monitors with one card can they?
SLI scaling and tessellation is something the GTX470/480 already introduced, so you can NOT say the GTX460 revolutionized it.

When a review of an excellent card is filled with "relative", "matches" and "marginally", I wonder whats a truely excellent card going to be called, Ubermegawonderful?

You get MY point?


Well I see what your getting at, but tell me this:

If you could classify ONE card from this generation as "excellent" NOW, what would it be? For me it would be the GTX 460. A month ago it would be the 5850 or GTX 470 depending on the situation. Before that it was the 5850 no contest. Before that it was the 4890, exct.

I suppose we are arguing something that is more or less a moot point.
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