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CPU/Mobo - AMD v. Intel (no fanboys plz)

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November 22, 2010 1:29:38 PM

Hi all,

Let me start out with saying that yes I know I am treading in Fanboy waters... but please baby jezuz do not turn this one into a troll war... I am looking for specific constructive criticism, not a .

I am building a new gaming rig, with an HD 5870 GPU, and am deciding between:

AMD Phenom II X6 1090T:


and

Intel i7 950:


So, to keep this as clean as possible... I have two SPECIFIC questions...

1) Which Mobo would you twin with each CPU

2) Which setup do you feel will give the greatest opportunity for upgrade in the future. i.e. am I cutting myself off at the knees by purchasing an end of life setup?

Honestly, I know that both the AMD and Intel rigs are powerful. I am not wanting to debate between each of their already impressive stats... all I am after is a mobo setup and which one you feel will allow for the best upgrade options a few years from now.

Thanks for any help you can give.

Cheers,
Adam
a b à CPUs
a b À AMD
November 22, 2010 2:00:13 PM

I wouldn't worry too much about the upgrade path of either setup if I were you as both of those sockets are on their last legs as it is.
a b à CPUs
November 22, 2010 2:01:22 PM

1.I'll let other posters pick the mobos
2.You could upgrade that Intel rig with an expensive 6 core i7-980X and Intel does have plans to release a slightly faster -990X CPU next year however but they are pretty much End of Line rigs unless you want to pick a very expensive CPU.

It perhaps would be best if you wait for the new Intel Sandybridge CPU's to come out soon (2 months from now).Also AMD will have their upcoming Bulldozer CPU's coming out on Socket AM3+ so essentially AM3 is a dead EOL platform.

In other words I would wait on building a new rig to get much better performing CPU's
Related resources
a b à CPUs
November 22, 2010 2:03:30 PM

People are building rigs at the wrong time...

I'll hold off on advice, I think people spending money 4 or 5 months prior to Sandy bridge and Bulldozer would be a waste.

If your going for it anyway, go for the i7 with an Asus P6T Deluxe. Its a faster chip and wont be a bottleneck to anything.
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a b À AMD
November 22, 2010 2:05:02 PM

deadjon said:
People are building rigs at the wrong time...

I'll hold off on advice, I think people spending money 4 or 5 months prior to Sandy bridge and Bulldozer would be a waste.

If your going for it anyway, go for the i7 with an Asus P6T Deluxe. Its a faster chip and wont be a bottleneck to anything.

Except 3x GTX580's.
a b à CPUs
November 22, 2010 2:05:10 PM

Mousemonkey said:
I wouldn't worry too much about the upgrade path of either setup if I were you as both of those sockets are on their last legs as it is.

Well i would get an i7 that way if you had a chance buy the i7 980x cheaply and I mean very cheaply..Then you have a chance to upgrade but in the computer world outdated cpu isnt cheap because middle men are afraid of making a loss when they bought the chips hence it never cpu never go down in price..
That is my take.
November 22, 2010 2:08:09 PM

Even though I am an AMD guy, the i950 will outperform the 1090T. Period. It will cost about $70 more, but it does have a slight benchmark advantage over the Phenom.

If you still decide on the Phenom, you should only consider the MSI 890FXA-GD70.

It is true that Intel and AMD are working on new cpu's. However, I'm not sure AMD will abandon the AM3 socket setup (with the "Bobcat" processors) as they generally even make newer processors run in older sockets. (Consider that you can still buy a Phenom II for an AM2+ socket.) Intel, on the other hand, has been changing sockets like underwear since Intel is more concerned about being on the cutting edge than AMD. So, I would expect Intel's new processors to come with a new socket. But, of course, there will be even faster Phenom II x6 processors and faster Intel i7 processors in the future. Towards the end of a processor's life they generally tweak the old design with what they've learned with the new research.
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a b À AMD
November 22, 2010 2:13:18 PM

ahthurungnone said:
Even though I am an AMD guy, the i950 will outperform the 1090T. Period. It will cost about $70 more, but it does have a slight benchmark advantage over the Phenom.

If you still decide on the Phenom, you should only consider the MSI 890FXA-GD70.

It is true that Intel and AMD are working on new cpu's. However, I'm not sure AMD will abandon the AM3 socket setup (with the "Bobcat" processors) as they generally even make newer processors run in older sockets. (Consider that you can still buy a Phenom II for an AM2+ socket.) Intel, on the other hand, has been changing sockets like underwear since Intel is more concerned about being on the cutting edge than AMD. So, I would expect Intel's new processors to come with a new socket. But, of course, there will be even faster Phenom II x6 processors and faster Intel i7 processors in the future. Towards the end of a processor's life they generally tweak the old design with what they've learned with the new research.

AMD have only been doing that since the AM2's, before that it was a new socket with every change in arch or have you forgotten the history so soon?
a b à CPUs
November 22, 2010 2:14:46 PM

EDIT

Its a faster chip and doesnt afraid of anything.
a c 172 à CPUs
November 22, 2010 2:15:16 PM

Neither CPU's are cost effective gaming CPU's. Of current CPU's, better something like an AMD 955BE or an Intel i5-760 or so.

At this point, with Sandy Bridge and Bulldozer on the horizon, you may be better off waiting.
a b à CPUs
November 22, 2010 2:18:41 PM

I think that AMD's most versatile motherboard platform overall was the AM2+ since many of them (with a BIOS update) could take the slowest AM2 Athlon 64's,AM2+ CPU's and even AM3 CPU's up to the Phenom II X6 1090T.

AM3 really is a dead end.
November 22, 2010 2:20:28 PM

deadjon said:
People are building rigs at the wrong time...

I'll hold off on advice, I think people spending money 4 or 5 months prior to Sandy bridge and Bulldozer would be a waste.

If your going for it anyway, go for the i7 with an Asus P6T Deluxe. Its a faster chip and wont be a bottleneck to anything.


I aggree but in my case i have till next month to buy a whole new PC because work is paying, if i'm to late i dont get any refund from work :p 

So i can understadn that some people do wanna build a PC before the new sockets and chips come out next year.

*Back on topic, since you only gonna use it for Gaming i would go for the AMD x6 chip, its cheaper than an i7 and has about the same performance in games. I would go I7 if you benchmark a lot as well.
November 22, 2010 2:24:57 PM

martyz1980 said:
I aggree but in my case i have till next month to buy a whole new PC because work is paying, if i'm to late i dont get any refund from work :p 

So i can understadn that some people do wanna build a PC before the new sockets and chips come out next year.


I'm in about the same position as you. My rig has to go to my gf and she's foaming at the mouth counting the days. However, if this doesn't convince you to hold on nothing will:

Core i7 2600K, 5.12 GHz on air, SuperPI 32M: 401 seconds!

http://it-chuiko.com/computers/7450-intel-core-i7-2600k-sandy-bridge-preodolevaet.html

I'm not an overclocker but I'm flabbergasted. AMD better put nitrous superchargers on that Bulldozer! :o 
November 22, 2010 3:19:28 PM

Thanks for all the responses, helpful stuff here.

For those who think I should wait on the Sandy Bridge setup... anyone know what a relative cost structure will be for the chip and mobo? I have the ability to wait for release... but I do not want to wait for something that will crush by bankaccount back to the stone age.
a b à CPUs
November 22, 2010 3:23:25 PM

£300 ($400ish) for a 2600K
£130 - 200 ($160 - 250) for a mobo

They are estimates though.
November 22, 2010 3:27:50 PM

I've been researching the i7 2600 hard (I'm putting the components together so I can buy one on release day as per my thread on this forum), but those prices seem fairly high for the CPU. I'm seeing guesstimates around US$280. However, in Ripoff Britain pounds with your lovely VAT it just might hit 300 quid. I've also seen a whack of stripped down LGA1155 2 SIMM mobos which look like they should come in very close to $100. I need 4 RAM slots so I'm expecting to pay close to $200 for mine. Of course, nothing at all is set until the official pricelists come out.

Edit correction. I'm seeing now that you're talking about the K. Those "should" be closer to $500+ so you actually might be low there. The standard 2600 prices are the ones which are expected to be south of $300.
November 22, 2010 3:31:37 PM

Ok, price estimates seem reasonable enough. I am going to have to invest in some research on this.

I'm almost set on waiting so that I don't purchase an end of life socket for the i950... I can possibly get a machine that will have some nice CPU upgrade options in the future.
November 22, 2010 3:34:46 PM

Also keep in mind that the LGA1155 is set to be the low end socket by the end of 2011. There will be an LGA1356 and an LGA2011. The latter will be a killer rig. Eight, count 'em eight quad channel RAM slots. I want one so bad I'm salivating on my keyboard.
November 22, 2010 3:41:35 PM

hmm thanks halfcalf. I'm so torn between the i950 and a Sandy build... thing is, realistically, I will not upgrade the CPU for atleast 2 years. Also, I cannot wait longer than end of January to get a new PC.

So... if the LGA1155 socket is going to be seriously overshadowed in acouple years, I may end up doing a new mobo/CPU anyways... so, is it really worth the wait?

damnit... why are the better products always 1 month away!
November 22, 2010 3:47:02 PM

Well, the Sandy is supposed to be released Jan. 6 or so, that means that they should be on at least "some" etailers by the second week of Jan. I can't wait beyond that time as my gf is looking at my i7 920 with lust in her eyes as I originally promised it to her for before Xmas. Gawd forbid that they delay it, I'll have to go buy an i950 or similar as well, and that would really suck to have to pull the trigger just because I can't hang on a few more weeks. I always keep my systems for 2 years and try to get as close to the current state of the art while staying within my budget when I do. It seems that there really is no option but to wait for the LGA1155 now. I wouldn't advise you to go any other route. :) 
November 22, 2010 6:15:38 PM

halfcalf said:
Well, the Sandy is supposed to be released Jan. 6 or so, that means that they should be on at least "some" etailers by the second week of Jan. I can't wait beyond that time as my gf is looking at my i7 920 with lust in her eyes as I originally promised it to her for before Xmas. Gawd forbid that they delay it, I'll have to go buy an i950 or similar as well, and that would really suck to have to pull the trigger just because I can't hang on a few more weeks. I always keep my systems for 2 years and try to get as close to the current state of the art while staying within my budget when I do. It seems that there really is no option but to wait for the LGA1155 now. I wouldn't advise you to go any other route. :) 


May i state that whenever intel is releassing a new socket/CPU the moment they come out the hardware is way overpriced and still have baby bugs in em.
Eg remember when the 920 C0 came out, 4 months later no1 was going to buy the rev. C0 Anymore cuz the rev. D0 was on the market, a newer, faster, less enery consuming chip than the original one...

Arn't you pple afraid that when Sandy hits you are going to pay to much for a chip thats prolly going to be revised and better a few months later ?


November 22, 2010 6:24:43 PM

martyz1980 said:
May i state that whenever intel is releassing a new socket/CPU the moment they come out the hardware is way overpriced and still have baby bugs in em.
Eg remember when the 920 C0 came out, 4 months later no1 was going to buy the rev. C0 Anymore cuz the rev. D0 was on the market, a newer, faster, less enery consuming chip than the original one...

Arn't you pple afraid that when Sandy hits you are going to pay to much for a chip thats prolly going to be revised and better a few months later ?


It's pretty well a guarantee that the price of the 2600s will go down as soon as the next socket is introduced, but I'm not so sure about the bugs. Intel has a lot riding on Sandy and I don't think that they will spare the Raid (the bug killer, not the HD setup)! :pt1cable: 

Beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelieve me I'd love nothing more than to wait but I have a gun to my head and my gf is not gonna hesitate in pulling the trigger! :lol: 
a b à CPUs
November 22, 2010 6:44:50 PM

"Now" will never be the best time for you to build until you can accept the idea that anything you buy today will be obsolete for upgrades within 18 months. Sure, some folks have had luck in that some processor socket lines have had a long life (i.e., 775, AM2+, etc.), but this is not the norm. Be prepared to buy a new mainboard, processor and memory with your next build, no matter what.

With that being the case, be aware that with the next generation of AMD mainboards will most likely be backwards compatible with current AM3 CPUs (AM3+), so you can upgrade the mainboard without having to upgrade the processor, and then upgrade the processor when the time comes.

If it's legs you are looking for, either kit will serve you well, since they are about even. You will spend a bit more for the Intel build, but for everyday performance, you honestly would never notice the difference. The i7 might be a bit better at games, while the Thuban will come into it's own in applications where the two additional cores are actually used. But to be honest, games are more affected by GPU, and not too many people are using software that takes full advantage of all six cores.
November 22, 2010 11:57:29 PM

a2love said:
Hi all,

Let me start out with saying that yes I know I am treading in Fanboy waters... but please baby jezuz do not turn this one into a troll war... I am looking for specific constructive criticism, not a .

I am building a new gaming rig, with an HD 5870 GPU, and am deciding between:

AMD Phenom II X6 1090T:


and

Intel i7 950:


So, to keep this as clean as possible... I have two SPECIFIC questions...

1) Which Mobo would you twin with each CPU

2) Which setup do you feel will give the greatest opportunity for upgrade in the future. i.e. am I cutting myself off at the knees by purchasing an end of life setup?

Honestly, I know that both the AMD and Intel rigs are powerful. I am not wanting to debate between each of their already impressive stats... all I am after is a mobo setup and which one you feel will allow for the best upgrade options a few years from now.

Thanks for any help you can give.

Cheers,
Adam


You do realize that both AMD and Intel are releasing new chips in Q1/Q2 of 2011 that will *start* about 1.5 times faster and be ~2 times faster than current offering by the end of the year(2011-Q4)?

Intel's new Quad core with HT turned off it suppose to be about as powerful as current i7s with HT on. ohh, and 32nm and 4/6/8 core offerings, and a new SIMD instruction set that is suppose to put SSE3/4 to shame(AMD Bulldozer will also have these instructions).

Oh yeah.. and AMD Bulldozer. BD should make current AMD chips look like the 1.5ghz P4.

Should be f'n awesome. 2011 is going to be a great year. New video card, new SSDs and new CPUs.

A CPU generation is about once every 18 months, and you're straddling the transition.
November 23, 2010 1:11:31 AM

Kewlx25 said:
You do realize that both AMD and Intel are releasing new chips in Q1/Q2 of 2011 that will *start* about 1.5 times faster and be ~2 times faster than current offering by the end of the year(2011-Q4)?

Intel's new Quad core with HT turned off it suppose to be about as powerful as current i7s with HT on. ohh, and 32nm and 4/6/8 core offerings, and a new SIMD instruction set that is suppose to put SSE3/4 to shame(AMD Bulldozer will also have these instructions).

Oh yeah.. and AMD Bulldozer. BD should make current AMD chips look like the 1.5ghz P4.

Should be f'n awesome. 2011 is going to be a great year. New video card, new SSDs and new CPUs.

A CPU generation is about once every 18 months, and you're straddling the transition.


Still i say you are going to pay way to much when the new chips are just released and also new chips always have baby bugs in em so months later the revised chips come on the market which in the end will perform better and cost less.

Another thing is since budget playes a role here as well, since when isnt it a smarter idea to wait for the 3'rd generation chip and buy the propper 1st generation for a low price ?

For example pple who bought the i7-920 CO stepping were ripped off, payed way to much when the chip was just released
Others who waited a year (when the 940 was already released) got the 920 D0 revesion for like 40% of its original price and they could overclock it to match the performance of an i7 Extreme edition.

Back to the originals posters 2 question :

1) For the I7 processor you can just get the standard Asus P6T SE (all the more expensive boards have the same X58 chipsets and are only luxury producs, only buy a more expensive one if you really need one of the features on such a board)

For the AMD CPU i wouldnt know

2) Neither setups will have great upgrade potential fo rthe future but imo that shouldnt matter a lot. If you build a propper system now it should last you 2-4 years and after that its upgrade time again.

As an example; early 2006 i did my last upgrade and i got myself a Core2Duo E6850 3,0 (Oced to 3,56 Ghz), simple Asus P5K mobo, 4 Gig of Ram and a 8800GT 512
Still today im using this system with a lot of satisfaction, i never had any problems with it, atm im running Windows7 x64, i play games like Dragon Age Origins, MoH, CoD and WoW all with no problems.
Hence on a normal day on my 1st screen i have a game opened and while playing on my 2nd screen i use skype, internet, download a movie and listen to music.

I'm also in the proces of upgrading now but just because i get a refund from work if you do it within the next 2 weeks so im going for an I7-950, Asus P6Tse or the Sabertooth and a 6Gb Dominator trikit.
This setup will keep me happy for the next 2-3 years i hope and if not i know ill have to buy a new cpu, mobo and memory but isnt that what every1 does when upgrading ?
The only socket i can remember i had more than 2 CPU's on was the 775 and believe me all future sockets wont last that long anyway.

In the end it all comes down to the persons upgrade behaviour.
If you tend to renew yr CPU every year you will be better of waiting for the new stuff, if now just build a solid system now and enjoy it for as long as u can.
Both Intel and AMD have poor upgrade options for next year if you buy the current stuff available.


November 23, 2010 3:42:39 AM

Well, here are the "alleged" prices hot off the web just a couple of hours ago!

]http://www.semiaccurate.com/2010/11/22/sandy-bridge-pricing-leaks-sweden/]

i5 2300 - $227
i5 2400 - $236
i5 2500 - $257
i5 2500K - $270
i7 2600 - $363
i7 2600K - $387

Yikes! I had expected the K models to be way overpriced, but they're just a few bucks more. Overall a bit pricier than I'd like but it will likely change many times before release date! :D 
a b à CPUs
November 23, 2010 3:58:27 AM

Considering the power of the i7 2600K that's not too bad of a price.
November 23, 2010 3:58:56 AM

halfcalf said:
Well, here are the "alleged" prices hot off the web just a couple of hours ago!

]http://www.semiaccurate.com/2010/11/22/sandy-bridge-pricing-leaks-sweden/]

i5 2300 - $227
i5 2400 - $236
i5 2500 - $257
i5 2500K - $270
i7 2600 - $363
i7 2600K - $387

Yikes! I had expected the K models to be way overpriced, but they're just a few bucks more. Overall a bit pricier than I'd like but it will likely change many times before release date! :D 


I get a nice picture when i click that link.............. wonder why :p 



Makes me think looking at the prices in your post... does a stock i5/i7 2xxx cpu same priced as a I7-950 atm actually going to out perform it by 1.5 times as Kewlx25 stated in his earlier post ?
I would love to see the day that the i5 2500k which should be $ 270 (is the closed to the current i7-950 price) beats the i7-950 which is $ 294 atm according to newegg.com by 1.5 times.

Will the new i5 2500k run at a standard stockspeed of 4.5Ghz.... i just lolled really hard, last time i read about this CPU it runs at 3.3Ghz so it doesnt make it like 1.5 times as fast.
If you do want a CPU thats going to be 1.5 times as fast you will need to get the i7 2600K and overclock it to the max, you might get close than.
November 23, 2010 9:31:34 AM

Kewlx25 said:
You do realize that both AMD and Intel are releasing new chips in Q1/Q2 of 2011 that will *start* about 1.5 times faster and be ~2 times faster than current offering by the end of the year(2011-Q4)?

Intel's new Quad core with HT turned off it suppose to be about as powerful as current i7s with HT on. ohh, and 32nm and 4/6/8 core offerings, and a new SIMD instruction set that is suppose to put SSE3/4 to shame(AMD Bulldozer will also have these instructions).

Oh yeah.. and AMD Bulldozer. BD should make current AMD chips look like the 1.5ghz P4.

Should be f'n awesome. 2011 is going to be a great year. New video card, new SSDs and new CPUs.

A CPU generation is about once every 18 months, and you're straddling the transition.


I don't think anyone is actually quoting 150-200% greater performance than today's chips.

The sandybridge client product reviews that I have seen show ~15-30% performance increase. AMD has not released any client benchmarks but the server parts should show ~50% throughput increase, but you can't really apply that number to client workloads.
November 23, 2010 3:10:23 PM

The LGA socket 1366 won't be obsolete until the LGA 2001 socket comes out. The sandy bridge that everyone is talking about will be the 1155 socket, which is meant to supersede the 1156 socket, not the 1366. Even when the 1355 sandy bridge comes out it won't be much of an increase. So it won't be worth upgrading until the 2001 socket comes out.
November 23, 2010 3:55:48 PM

For a guy that will build now, and replace mobo/Chip in about 3 years.... wait for sandy or no?
a b à CPUs
November 23, 2010 4:03:06 PM

2011/12 The ivy bridge will come out..Then the Sandy bridge everyone wants to have is old..And we still think of bottlenecks and having not enough Ram!!
HAHAHAHA!
But ivy bridge will be compatible with the socket 1155..
November 23, 2010 4:24:08 PM

bejabbers: Yeah, the LGA2011 is going to be a total beast. I'd feel a lot better about it if there was a more or less firm date (or even quarter) for release. LGA2011 Sandys might not be on shelves until the end of Q3 and that is way too long (for me at least) to wait. It's too bad that Intel did this socket launch backwards from the last one. They came out with the LGA1366 first and then the LGA1156 much later. This time they're coming out with the low-featured socket first, then the mid-featured, then the high-featured. You can't imagine what I'd give for them to intro the LGA2011 instead of the LGA1155! I can only dream! :( 

Zulfadhli: Yeah, and you should not buy a 486 since Pentium is coming, and you should not buy a crystal CPU since the quantum entanglement CPU is coming. At some point you just have to pull the trigger. :bounce: 
November 23, 2010 6:19:32 PM

Seeing my upgrade behaviour i think ill just skip the sandy bridge.
Ill go from my 775 Core2Duo E6850 (which i had since early 2006) to 1366 i7-950 now and in a year or 2-3 ill just go straight to the 2011 socket once they are out there for a while.
a b à CPUs
November 23, 2010 6:52:53 PM

Honestly, I would wait for Sandy.

If you aren't, go with the i5-760 and throw more money into your GPU. The i7s do nothing for games over the i5 quads. If you're worried about the 1156's chipset then get a board with NF200 for extra PCIe lanes.

Still, I'd wait a little bit for the newer CPUs/sockets.
a b à CPUs
November 23, 2010 7:46:38 PM

jj463rd said:
Considering the power of the i7 2600K that's not too bad of a price.


Yeah, definitely not bad at all, esp. since the unlocked multi "K" model of the 2600 is only $25 more than the locked version. I may have to revise my opinion of Intel price-gouging :p ..
November 23, 2010 7:55:38 PM

Damn... every time I seem to want to upgrade I am caught in this catch 22 of new chipsets/sockets.

I'm building a pure gaming rig and I will not be upgrading for atleast 2 years... when I do upgrade I can handle buying a new mobo and CPU.

The Sandy is tempting... but I personally hate buying a brand new chipset... I'm more of a tried and true kinda guy, buying 6 months after everyone else breaks their stuff and learns their lessons.

But still... with Sandy coming I don't know if I can stand behind the i7 950 pricing... maybe the i5's are the way to go for me........ or wait till everyone starts dumping the 950 for Sandy and get a deal.
a c 94 à CPUs
a b À AMD
November 23, 2010 8:17:31 PM

I don't think AM3 is dead at all. There are excellent AM3 motherboards available for less than $100, great combos, there won't be a DDR4 spec until next year, and an AMD CPU & DDR3 RAMs will move to an AM3+ motherboard, which is compatible with the next gen processor.


November 23, 2010 8:28:51 PM

fazers_on_stun said:
Yeah, definitely not bad at all, esp. since the unlocked multi "K" model of the 2600 is only $25 more than the locked version. I may have to revise my opinion of Intel price-gouging :p ..


Wait with revising your opinion about intell, we all know they ALWAYS overprice their premium chips when they are first launched, some things never change....

Take a look at the actual website he linked, some1 stated the chip is going to be $487 (not $387)

A quote from that website :

Quote:
Your article contains a typo: The 2600K's price before VAT is $484, not $384, which is obvious when one tries to figure out how you arrived at $363. I hope your conversions are more accurate than the rest of your math.

November 23, 2010 8:41:43 PM

martyz1980 said:
Wait with revising your opinion about intell, we all know they ALWAYS overprice their premium chips when they are first launched, some things never change....

Take a look at the actual website he linked, some1 stated the chip is going to be $487 (not $387)

A quote from that website :

Quote:
Your article contains a typo: The 2600K's price before VAT is $484, not $384, which is obvious when one tries to figure out how you arrived at $363. I hope your conversions are more accurate than the rest of your math.


Yeah, that website is edited by Bozo The Clown, so it's very unclear what the exact prices are. But I think if we take them all with a huge grain of salt the size of an Intel Fab, we should be just fine. The final prices are never real until they're official and we likely might have to wait until just before Xmas to get some really accurate estimates.
a c 131 à CPUs
a b À AMD
November 23, 2010 9:00:25 PM

Some people think dead means that the socket has been completely replaced by modern technology, nothing new is released for it and it does not have a viable cost/performance ration. (socket 939, socket 478)

Some people think dead means that the socket has been replaced by a newer socket even though it is still viable in limited market segments. (socket 775)

Some people think dead means that no new CPUs will be released for the socket. (775, possibly 1156 and possibly AM3)

Some people even think dead means that any new CPUs released for said socket will not provide significant performance gains over what is already available (socket 1156, 1366 and AM3) (And yes, I have seen people like this)

There are also people who think 1366 is the only living socket because they currently provide the most powerful CPUs.

Every time I find myself speaking with someone about this, I eventually find out that their definition is different from mine. This is why I always just ignore the term "dead socket" and advise you do the same.
Anyone who thinks no socket today is an "EOL socket" is kidding themselves.
Alternatively, every socket is not an "EOL socket" if you buy a low end CPU for that socket now.

Personally, I advise forgetting about upgrades. When you want a new CPU, you'll probably want a new motherboard by that time anyway, unless you have a tendency to constantly buy motherboards over $150.

Let's answer your questions:

1) Which Mobo would you twin with each CPU
I'm not going to state specific models but I am going to say it depends on what you need. Crossfire? SLI? USB 3.0? How many Sata connectors? mATX or ATX? How many ram slots? There are so many considerations. I advise going on newegg, go to the advanced search and select all the details you know you want and getting the least expensive that meets your needs by a reliable brand such as Asus, Gigabyte or MSI.
Alternatively, if you are looking for an expensive motherboard that will provide the best overclocking potential for each processor, I recommend reading a lot of reviews or checking out what motherboards reviewers are using to test their setups.

2) Which setup do you feel will give the greatest opportunity for upgrade in the future. i.e. am I cutting myself off at the knees by purchasing an end of life setup?

AMD may release a 3.6GHz quad or more in the future and might also release faster clocked 6 core processors but don't expect any improvement beyond .1GHz jumps on current processors once in a while.

Same goes for intel. I believe they intend to release a 990X which will be a step up from the 980X.

Neither will release anything significantly faster for their current sockets.

For a guy that will build now, and replace mobo/Chip in about 3 years.... wait for sandy or no?
If you can wait, always wait. New CPUs = new CPUs and lower prices on current CPUs.
But you also can't spend your whole life waiting because something new is always coming out.
If it were me, I would wait (which is what I am doing lol)(well, actually I am waiting for both sandy bridge and Zambezi so I'll be waiting until next summer pretty much.)

November 23, 2010 10:14:03 PM

Wisecracker said:
I don't think AM3 is dead at all. There are excellent AM3 motherboards available for less than $100, great combos, there won't be a DDR4 spec until next year, and an AMD CPU & DDR3 RAMs will move to an AM3+ motherboard, which is compatible with the next gen processor.


my guess is DDR4 in 2014 at the earliest.
a b à CPUs
November 24, 2010 1:59:46 AM

jf-amd said:
my guess is DDR4 in 2014 at the earliest.


True DDR4 is a long way out, also, DDR4 is not expected to be a dramatic jump over DDR3.
But even without DDR4, I think JEDEC is supposed to set specs on 1600, 1866, etc in the next year, and CPU memory controllers should evolve to reflect that, so it's not to say that RAM isn't moving forward in a meaningful way.
November 24, 2010 11:22:24 AM

Enzo Matrix - Great response, very helpful thank you. I think what I will do is create two builds, one if I am not willing to wait and the other for if I can hold out for SandyBridge. If I can't wait then I pull the trigger on my non-sandy build.

The more I read about current choices, and the impact of Sandy, the more I realize anything will be light years ahead of my current p4 build. I'm not going to be unhappy with anything here... just need to etch out the details.

I will post back once I have a build setup.

Cheers!
a b à CPUs
November 24, 2010 12:49:32 PM

enzo matrix said:
Some people think dead means that the socket has been completely replaced by modern technology, nothing new is released for it and it does not have a viable cost/performance ration. (socket 939, socket 478)

Some people think dead means that the socket has been replaced by a newer socket even though it is still viable in limited market segments. (socket 775)...

So what does the term dead socket to technician, computer wizards etc?
a c 96 à CPUs
November 24, 2010 12:53:13 PM

a2love said:
Hi all,

Let me start out with saying that yes I know I am treading in Fanboy waters... but please baby jezuz do not turn this one into a troll war... I am looking for specific constructive criticism, not a .

I am building a new gaming rig, with an HD 5870 GPU, and am deciding between:


AMD Phenom II X6 1090T:


and

Intel i7 950:


So, to keep this as clean as possible... I have two SPECIFIC questions...

1) Which Mobo would you twin with each CPU


I don't know much about LGA1366 parts, but MSi's high-end AM3 boards like the 790FX-GD70 and the newer 890FXA-GD70 have been pretty highly thought of. ASUS's midrange M4A series is also pretty highly regarded for AM3 boards, just stay away from ASUS's top-end boards as they can be flaky.

Quote:
2) Which setup do you feel will give the greatest opportunity for upgrade in the future. i.e. am I cutting myself off at the knees by purchasing an end of life setup?


Neither have a great upgrade potential as both will be replaced with new platforms next year. If I had to choose which one had a slightly better upgrade potential, I'd choose LGA1366. There likely won't be much faster than the Phenom II X6 1100T released for AM3. The only LGA1366 chips that mere mortals can afford right now are quad-cores, but six-core chips exist and are notably faster in certain applications. I'd look at an LGA1366 board that can take Xeon 5600s, since some of those are 6-core units and they should show up on eBay in a year or two at reasonable prices. They should be less expensive than the 6-core Core i7s since not all boards can take Xeons, plus there are a lot more 6-core Xeons out there than there are 6-core i7s.

The only platforms that can be upgraded to next-generation CPUs are the new Socket C32 and Socket G34 Opteron platforms. They are server and workstation platforms, not gaming platforms, and a conventional desktop setup is better-suited for gaming than these are.

halfcalf said:
Also keep in mind that the LGA1155 is set to be the low end socket by the end of 2011. There will be an LGA1356 and an LGA2011. The latter will be a killer rig. Eight, count 'em eight quad channel RAM slots. I want one so bad I'm salivating on my keyboard.


That's just adding one more channel compared to LGA1366 units. And I'll bet that like the current LGA1366 units, it probably won't even notice if you don't fill the last channel. The one advantage to that extra RAM channel is that you can have more RAM slots and hold more RAM, but that is of little importance to most gamers. People who really need a lot of RAM go with workstation/server systems that have even more RAM slots and channels, plus the ability to use registered RAM modules that are twice as large as desktop unbuffered RAM. Some of those systems already have quad-channel RAM interfaces and 8 DIMM slots per CPU.

a2love said:
Damn... every time I seem to want to upgrade I am caught in this catch 22 of new chipsets/sockets.

I'm building a pure gaming rig and I will not be upgrading for atleast 2 years... when I do upgrade I can handle buying a new mobo and CPU.

The Sandy is tempting... but I personally hate buying a brand new chipset... I'm more of a tried and true kinda guy, buying 6 months after everyone else breaks their stuff and learns their lessons.

But still... with Sandy coming I don't know if I can stand behind the i7 950 pricing... maybe the i5's are the way to go for me........ or wait till everyone starts dumping the 950 for Sandy and get a deal.


Something new is always just around the corner. If you need something now, buy it now. If you don't, then wait.

jf-amd said:
my guess is DDR4 in 2014 at the earliest.


And it would be a year or so after Intel first adopts it in their high-end parts until the price drops to a sane level and clock speeds come up to at least match that of fast DDR3. We've seen that with DDR2 and DDR3; I have no reason to expect it to be different with DDR4 unless Intel decides to go yet again with some RDRAM-esque serial memory technology instead of a DDR/SDRAM successor. If they do, expect AMD to pick up DDR4 only when its price gets within hailing distance of DDR3's and its performance is clearly higher than DDR3.
a c 131 à CPUs
a b À AMD
November 24, 2010 1:28:04 PM

ghnader hsmithot said:
So what does the term dead socket to technician, computer wizards etc?

I've never heard it used by a technician or any computer technically minded people I know. Tom's is the only place I have actually heard it.
a c 94 à CPUs
a b À AMD
November 24, 2010 1:39:47 PM

Wisecracker said:
I don't think AM3 is dead at all. There are excellent AM3 motherboards available for less than $100, great combos, there won't be a DDR4 spec until next year, and an AMD CPU & DDR3 RAMs will move to an AM3+ motherboard, which is compatible with the next gen processor.


jf-amd said:
my guess is DDR4 in 2014 at the earliest.


etk said:
True DDR4 is a long way out, also, DDR4 is not expected to be a dramatic jump over DDR3.
But even without DDR4, I think JEDEC is supposed to set specs on 1600, 1866, etc in the next year, and CPU memory controllers should evolve to reflect that, so it's not to say that RAM isn't moving forward in a meaningful way.


But we need quad-channel DDR4 desktops with 8 DIMM slots! :whistle: 

Or maybe 42 PCIe lanes. The desktop ain't starved for memory and (if I don't choke while typing this) the OS and Apps are doing better at managing it.


enzo matrix said:
...

For a guy that will build now, and replace mobo/Chip in about 3 years.... wait for sandy or no?
If you can wait, always wait. New CPUs = new CPUs and lower prices on current CPUs.
But you also can't spend your whole life waiting because something new is always coming out.....



M4A79T Deluxe AM3 DDR3 AMD 790FX

AMD Phenom II X4 945 Deneb 3.0GHz

G.SKILL 6GB (3 x 2GB) DDR3 1333

$90 + $126 + $83 = $299

Say, WHAT?

I'm thinkin' 15x240MHz and a second HD5870

That's if a single HD 5870 is just not quite enough :lol: 
!