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Gtx 460 slower than 8800gt?

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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July 30, 2010 10:23:30 PM

I have a q6600 oc to 2.7 ghz
4gigs of ram
Vista sp1
And just upgraded my 8800gt to a gigabyte gtx 460. It is currently in a pci express slot that isn't 2.0 btw


My best 3dmark 06 score with the 8800gt was 12900, installed the gtx 460 and score was 12400. Once I updated drivers I got a 14400.

What gives? Could my processor be bottlenecking? Or perhaps not enough bandwidth in the pci express 1 slot.

Heck could physx be on and I not know it? Would that effect 3dmark 06 scores?

I'm at a loss here....

More about : gtx 460 slower 8800gt

a c 168 Î Nvidia
July 30, 2010 10:52:56 PM

3D '06 is CPU dependent and not really worth using as a measure of a new cards prowess and it's DX9 for crying out loud! How is that a way to measure DX10 and DX11 cards?
a b Î Nvidia
July 30, 2010 11:05:15 PM

Yeah. The GTX 460 is leaps beyond the 8800GT.

And PhysX is not used by 3dMark06, so that shouldn't be a factor at all.

You could try to OC your Q6600 more (if it's capable) and then try again. Or use a more modern benchmark like Vantage. You could also test the two with something like Furmark for giggles too.

The true test though, is whether you get better graphics and performance with your actual games.
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July 31, 2010 12:31:20 AM

My main concern was reading a few reviews where people have gotten over 20k with there 460s.

I'm installing vista sp2 now so I can take advantage of dx11 and I'll benchmark that. My motherboard doesn't support voltage adjustments for the processor which is hy I'm limited to a 2.745 ghz clock.

And no haven't tried any games... That's what these are used for?! I thought they were for 3dmark results..... Lol
July 31, 2010 10:14:08 PM

Ok well I couldn't get vista to update to sp2 no matter what I tried it just said it failed.

Will work on it more tonight.

I tried haven 2.0 and I scored 39fps at 1680 by 1040. Some reviews got 53 with a 768 version. Also I loaded dragon age and I did gain roughly 5 to 10 fps but still seems low..... Could I be bottlenecked or is this card a dud?
August 1, 2010 12:30:59 PM

Yo, I'm a bit disappointed with my results too.

I ran 3dmark06 and got a whopping 14000 with my newly acquired gigabyte 460gtx 1gb.

I had a 8800gt before and was able to get 12500.

Dang, what happened? And yes, I made sure to clean out the old driver before proceeding.

Hardly worth the expenses for this kind of results.
August 1, 2010 3:29:17 PM

Just run a proper game and if you're satisfied with the performance then be happy with it.
August 1, 2010 4:08:32 PM

gawd no
August 1, 2010 6:31:26 PM

That's the thing I'm not satisfied I gained 8 fps max.... So now the option is Rma the card because it is defective? Or build my system up to see if it is defective for sure....
August 2, 2010 2:45:47 AM

just run heaven @ 1680x1050 scored 40 fps. gpu usage between 74% and 94%.

cpu i7 875k 4gb ram

460 is bottlenecked on my system unless i overclock
a b Î Nvidia
August 2, 2010 3:59:47 AM

narwen said:
just run heaven @ 1680x1050 scored 40 fps. gpu usage between 74% and 94%.

cpu i7 875k 4gb ram

460 is bottlenecked on my system unless i overclock


Hmm. I just ran a 1680x1050 benchmark with my i5-750 @ 4 ghz, and my GTX 470 (258.96 drivers).

Settings:
1680x1050
DX11 (Direct3D11)
Shaders : High
Textures: High
Filter: trilinear
Anisotropy: 4x
Occlusion: enabled
Refraction: enabled
Volumetric: enabled
Replication: disabled
Tessellation: normal
AA: Off

FPS 42.7
Score 1077

August 2, 2010 11:52:53 PM

My results were in DX10 Jerreece. try running in DX10 and you will prob be 100+ lol

actually if you could i would be interested to see what you get.

So my question is this, I found a Motherboard and PSU combo on tigerdirect "P5N-D" for about a 100 bucks, if i got that and windows 7, and a new case plus CPU cooler it would come out to 380$ shipped.

Would it be worth it to upgrade just for the bump in CPU speed, figure i could get 3.6 ghz with the corsair H50 cooler. That mother board is also pcie 2.0 and would also support another gtx 460 down the road if i needed it.

what do you think would that get me were i want to be?
August 3, 2010 1:35:07 PM

yes, 3d mark 06 is more CPu intensive, but remember, you have a quad core, more overclocking means more heat (4 cores) and careful consideration should be done here... invest in a good CPU cooler, then overclock...

this will help with better communication between your CPU and GPU... don't worry about your score though, its a great card, and thinking about investing in one myself after reading the article about the GTX460 in Sli kicking the GTX 480... for the same price!!

yes, it is your cpu is bottle necking, but remember, and many people will disagree: a dual core (E8500 @ 3.16Ghz will perform better in 3d mark 06, than a Quad core at your speeds... )

August 3, 2010 5:53:42 PM

Quote:
Could my processor be bottlenecking? Or perhaps not enough bandwidth in the pci express 1 slot.



PCI 2.0 spec came out in January 2007. If you are running an older MB that supports PCIe 1.0 or 1.1 spec your maximum video bandwidth is HALF that of 2.0

PCIe 16 lane slot:

v1.x: 4 GB/s
v2.x: 8 GB/s
v3.0: 16 GB/s (this spec is still being worked on and is not expected to be released until 2011)
a b Î Nvidia
August 3, 2010 7:02:51 PM

e46justice said:
My results were in DX10 Jerreece. try running in DX10 and you will prob be 100+ lol

actually if you could i would be interested to see what you get.


LOL *facepalm* I should have seen that coming. I was starting to think you either had a REALLY good GTX 460, or my GTX 470 went gimp. If I remember, I'll try to run it with DX10 tonight after the kids go to bed. :) 
August 3, 2010 10:29:17 PM

cool man, looking forward to it.

There is also another thread a little ways up by a guy Jackdaniels who is having the same problem with the same hardware, little gain from his new gigabyte gtx 460, and has same processor.

Ill be ordering my system upgrade in a week and a half when i get paid, if people are interested ill post what my gains are when i overclock the piss out of the processor lol

also when i disable AA i get a pretty big FPS increase that would mean im not bottlenecked right?

ugh
a b Î Nvidia
August 3, 2010 10:35:56 PM

If simply disabling AA improves FPS (without other changes) then it's the GPU that's limiting itself. :) 
August 3, 2010 10:56:03 PM

well I will stick my 8800gt back in tonight and run the same benchmark tonight. there have been so many tweeks to my system since i installed this 460 Im not sure if i still have my apples to apples.

If it is the card maxed out and my 8800 gt is comparable than i will RMA the card and get another.

Jackdaniels has the same card with same problem so maybe there is a bad batch of cards?

More tweeking and benchmarking tonight. =)
a c 168 Î Nvidia
August 3, 2010 11:23:33 PM

tgstaff said:
Quote:
Could my processor be bottlenecking? Or perhaps not enough bandwidth in the pci express 1 slot.



PCI 2.0 spec came out in January 2007. If you are running an older MB that supports PCIe 1.0 or 1.1 spec your maximum video bandwidth is HALF that of 2.0

PCIe 16 lane slot:

v1.x: 4 GB/s
v2.x: 8 GB/s
v3.0: 16 GB/s (this spec is still being worked on and is not expected to be released until 2011)

A GTX460 shouldn't be running into problems because of the PCIe 1.0 spec which has a transfer rate of 250MB/sec, so even though PCIe 2.0 doubles the transfer rate at 500MB/sec there shouldn't be a problem with any of the cards available today as none have transfer rates anywhere near the 250MB/sec mark.
August 4, 2010 12:05:56 AM

Thats 250 mb per lain not GB mousemonkey.

250mb X 16

which is the 4gb a sec pcie 1.X spec

TGstaff's numbers are right, at least according to my research.

The real question is what is the bandwidth requirements for GTX 460, and even 470 and 480 if there available.

Anyone have any ideas on how to benchmark PCIE bandwidth usage?

a c 168 Î Nvidia
August 4, 2010 12:12:50 AM

e46justice said:
Thats 250 mb per lain not GB mousemonkey.

250mb X 16

which is the 4gb a sec pcie 1.X spec

TGstaff's numbers are right, at least according to my research.

The real question is what is the bandwidth requirements for GTX 460, and even 470 and 480 if there available.

Anyone have any ideas on how to benchmark PCIE bandwidth usage?

Yeah, I put a "G" instead of an "M" but at least I didn't spell lane wrong. [:mousemonkey]
August 4, 2010 12:23:57 AM

well than i guess you showed me... lol

from the research ive done the new generation of GPUs do stress the 4gb threshold and well beyond in some cases. how much would be nice to know.

a c 168 Î Nvidia
August 4, 2010 12:36:05 AM

The last time Tom's did an article on GPU bandwidth was about three years ago IIRC, so it would be nice if the topic was revisited.
August 4, 2010 12:42:46 AM

ya it would be pretty nice. i see a new article on PCIE 3.0 on the front page im sure once its out toms will do a new article showing some benifits.

For now, I think im going to order a PCIE 2.0 mobo and see if there is drastic differences in performance and that will give up the ghost right there.
August 10, 2010 11:34:29 PM

Well mine seems to under perform, but I still don't know if it's because of my system or just a poor card.

August 11, 2010 12:06:00 AM

Hmm is your card a gigabyte Stephan?
August 25, 2010 9:49:45 PM

I'm running two evga gtx460 sc 1gb and I have seen substantial improvements to no improvement. over all I'm dissatisfied. the drivers that came with the cards never worked and I've been hearing gripes about the new drivers but they're the only ones Ive got.
a b Î Nvidia
August 25, 2010 11:04:23 PM

When it comes to drivers one has to wait a few months or even more before drivers get to ware they are working. I once ended up getting a cheap ATI card so that I could play fallout3 and waited 3 months before I had stable drivers so that the game would actually play on my 8800gtx as well my 9800gt. This is common on both Nvidia and ati cards when they are of the latest generation. So I would try to tweak the rest of the system and wait till drivers mature enough to ware you get what you actually paid for.
August 26, 2010 12:51:28 AM

I just got an eVGA GTX460 1GB card tonight to replace my 8800GT. Running Bad Company 2, my FPS actually went down with the GTX460, not up. I did not change anything except install the latest drivers, as the old drivers I was running weren't recognizing the card. At 1400x900, i was averaging 55 fps in BC2 with the 8800. That is down to about 40-45 fps now with the gts460, at the same resolution and quality settings. I didn't touch anything in game at all.

I am PISSED!!!! On top of this, the card I got today is the 2nd gtx460 i have gotten. the first arrived DOA 2 weeks ago. Fortunately, newegg was no problem to get a replacement.

why did I spent $230 on a SLOWER card!?!?!?!?!?

i'm running win7 64 pro, with a Q6600 quad running at 3.0GHz with 8Gb ram. I was expecting, based on reviews here on TH, to get at least 50% more fps, if not double. I see i am not the only one sorely disappointed.
August 26, 2010 4:14:19 AM

I deleted the settings.ini file, and let the game recreate one from scratch. Now i am running at 1900x1200 with 4x AA and 4xAF, at high settings, and getting 60 fps +/- average. I didn't need to clean out my registry, which I usually keep fairly clean anyway. It was all down to the settings.ini file, which was forcing it to use dx9. now its running in dx11. so all is well.
September 2, 2010 12:33:26 AM

Settings .Ini for the game I take it?
!