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OK for 5 year old?

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Anonymous
July 24, 2005 4:49:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament (More info?)

How graphic is the violence in this game? I would like to play with my 5
year old son (he mostly watches) and did not know how bloody the game is.

Also, I have a home network and would like to play "cooperative" with him
against the computer bad guys. Is that possible and what would I need to
do?

Thanks.
Steve

More about : year

Anonymous
July 24, 2005 4:49:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament (More info?)

On Sun, 24 Jul 2005 12:49:50 GMT, "Steve Johnson"
<stevedjohnson@bigfoot.com> wrote:

>How graphic is the violence in this game? I would like to play with my 5
>year old son (he mostly watches) and did not know how bloody the game is.
>
>Also, I have a home network and would like to play "cooperative" with him
>against the computer bad guys. Is that possible and what would I need to
>do?
>
>Thanks.
>Steve
>

5 is a bit young, but you can always adjust the "gore" level .. at
least I think you can in UT2K4 .. not sure on GOTY right off the hand.

Personally, I think 8 or 9 is about as young as I'd start them on FPS
games, and only then after an explanation of fantasy vs. real life.
Anonymous
July 24, 2005 4:49:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament (More info?)

"Steve Johnson" <stevedjohnson@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:o 7MEe.16232$0f.4840@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> How graphic is the violence in this game? I would like to play with my 5
> year old son (he mostly watches) and did not know how bloody the game is.
>
> Also, I have a home network and would like to play "cooperative" with him
> against the computer bad guys. Is that possible and what would I need to
> do?
>
> Thanks.
> Steve
>

I played a lot with my kid and it was one of the worst parenting mistakes
you can make. I thought he would have no trouble seperating fantasy and real
life, and he doesn't. The tricky part is the de-sensitizing that occurs over
killing people. Now believe me, I'm no conservative by any means but I would
not let my kids get started at such a young age. It took a long time to
steer my kid away from playing "frag the kids" at the schoolyard and into
more age-appropriate pursuits. I REALLY did not like the little things I
began to see him doing.
Put it this way, after playing a couple of hours it takes a while to kind of
"come back" to reality. We've had funny posts over the years about guys
blurring the lines of reality for fun (I.E. "I wish I had a rocket launcher
at work to clear the cafeteria line...ha ha ha!") but kids have a lot more
trouble with that distinction. Hell, they still think a fat man drops them
gifts off at Christmas and we think they will have no problems with true
reality? C'mon, who you kidding.

Bottom-line is that you will regret letting him play. Maybe not today or
tommorrow, but you will.
Related resources
July 24, 2005 8:07:32 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament (More info?)

well.... I would wait a little... there's alot of splatter in UT.. bodyparts flying around etc.

JR

"Steve Johnson" <stevedjohnson@bigfoot.com> wrote in message news:o 7MEe.16232$0f.4840@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> How graphic is the violence in this game? I would like to play with my 5
> year old son (he mostly watches) and did not know how bloody the game is.
>
> Also, I have a home network and would like to play "cooperative" with him
> against the computer bad guys. Is that possible and what would I need to
> do?
>
> Thanks.
> Steve
>
>
Anonymous
July 24, 2005 8:10:41 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament (More info?)

> How graphic is the violence in this game? I would like to play with my 5
> year old son (he mostly watches) and did not know how bloody the game is.
We all know that the suggestments made by the industry are far to hard, but
this game is offically for people older than 16 or 18, depending on the
country. I think there is no problem playing if with a 14 year old but I
don't know if you would do a 5 year old any good.
Anonymous
July 27, 2005 4:52:16 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament (More info?)

You can turn the gore level down - however I let my 7 year old play this a
little bit and she got sick of it after 2 minutes. We play Roller Coaster
tycoon 3 (well I do and she watches) now.


"Steve Johnson" <stevedjohnson@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:o 7MEe.16232$0f.4840@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> How graphic is the violence in this game? I would like to play with my 5
> year old son (he mostly watches) and did not know how bloody the game is.
>
> Also, I have a home network and would like to play "cooperative" with him
> against the computer bad guys. Is that possible and what would I need to
> do?
>
> Thanks.
> Steve
>
>
July 31, 2005 2:16:39 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament (More info?)

Steve Johnson wrote:

> How graphic is the violence in this game? I would like to play with my 5
> year old son (he mostly watches) and did not know how bloody the game is.

It's rated 15 in the UK. For a reason.

You can turn down the graphical violence but it's still a game about
killing people. Maybe if you play Monsterhunt or a similar coop mod it's
less blatant but for a 5yo?

--
Flash
August 1, 2005 6:55:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament (More info?)

"Steve Johnson" <stevedjohnson@bigfoot.com> wrote in
news:o 7MEe.16232$0f.4840@tornado.texas.rr.com:

> How graphic is the violence in this game?


Cartoon. No worse than one can see on prime-time television.



stePH
--
"Religion does encourage people to follow what other people think is right
instead of think."
-- howard, RASW
Anonymous
August 1, 2005 11:15:44 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament (More info?)

"stePH" <acetheta@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:42ee1bab_1@x-privat.org...
> "Steve Johnson" <stevedjohnson@bigfoot.com> wrote in
> news:o 7MEe.16232$0f.4840@tornado.texas.rr.com:
>
>> How graphic is the violence in this game?
>
>
> Cartoon. No worse than one can see on prime-time television.
>
>
>
> stePH

The difference being you won't see relentless killing to that scale on any
TV show, cable or otherwise.
Anonymous
August 2, 2005 4:16:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament (More info?)

On Mon, 1 Aug 2005 19:15:44 -0700, "goPostal" <none@this.net> wrote:

>
>"stePH" <acetheta@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>news:42ee1bab_1@x-privat.org...
>> "Steve Johnson" <stevedjohnson@bigfoot.com> wrote in
>> news:o 7MEe.16232$0f.4840@tornado.texas.rr.com:
>>
>>> How graphic is the violence in this game?
>>
>>
>> Cartoon. No worse than one can see on prime-time television.
>>
>>
>>
>> stePH
>
>The difference being you won't see relentless killing to that scale on any
>TV show, cable or otherwise.

Evening news?
August 16, 2005 10:15:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament (More info?)

And primetime tv is appropriate for a 5 yr old?

Speaking as a parent of 4 children who has credentials in child development
and am a
UT playing freak...find a more appropriate age level game for a 5 year old
to share with your son. I'm sure
he'll get enough violence in the real world while growing up...no point in
desensitizing him at such a young age.

I have no problem with older teens playing this game...but it's not for
small children...and I understand that there are some ppl who don't believe
this...but that's usually because they're either too young, uneducated about
the subject, or desensitized themselves.

Blondie


"Folk" <Folk@folk.com> wrote in message
news:317ve1hnabm0rv4mtq6gb4gl50rq5vbn5k@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 1 Aug 2005 19:15:44 -0700, "goPostal" <none@this.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >"stePH" <acetheta@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> >news:42ee1bab_1@x-privat.org...
> >> "Steve Johnson" <stevedjohnson@bigfoot.com> wrote in
> >> news:o 7MEe.16232$0f.4840@tornado.texas.rr.com:
> >>
> >>> How graphic is the violence in this game?
> >>
> >>
> >> Cartoon. No worse than one can see on prime-time television.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> stePH
> >
> >The difference being you won't see relentless killing to that scale on
any
> >TV show, cable or otherwise.
>
> Evening news?
>
Anonymous
August 17, 2005 10:50:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament (More info?)

Hmmm.

Ok so I am going to go against the majority of the posts here and say I let
my 6 year old play and have no issues at this point in time.

I sort of go along with the Cartoon comment made in a previous response. I
believe my son is inteligent enough to diferentiate ( even at this early
age) the difference between real life and an artifiacial environment. He
enjoys driving the vehicles and exploring the worlds and yes shooting the
enemies. He doesnt carry this shooting / combat / war theme into other areas
of his non computer game and role play. My wife and I have talked through
whether we should be allowing him to play and agreed that the moment we
observe behavior that we believe has been brought about through playing
UT2004 we will cut it out imedietley.

The key I think is the child itself, and the rest of the upbringing they
receive. I dont believe UT2004 as part of a balanced diet is automatically a
bad thing.

Jon



"Steve Johnson" <stevedjohnson@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:o 7MEe.16232$0f.4840@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> How graphic is the violence in this game? I would like to play with my 5
> year old son (he mostly watches) and did not know how bloody the game is.
>
> Also, I have a home network and would like to play "cooperative" with him
> against the computer bad guys. Is that possible and what would I need to
> do?
>
> Thanks.
> Steve
>
Anonymous
August 17, 2005 10:50:41 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament (More info?)

"Bishman" <jonathan.bishop@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:D e00u0$p0f$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
> Hmmm.
>
> Ok so I am going to go against the majority of the posts here and say I
> let my 6 year old play and have no issues at this point in time.
>
> I sort of go along with the Cartoon comment made in a previous response. I
> believe my son is inteligent enough to diferentiate ( even at this early
> age) the difference between real life and an artifiacial environment. He
> enjoys driving the vehicles and exploring the worlds and yes shooting the
> enemies. He doesnt carry this shooting / combat / war theme into other
> areas of his non computer game and role play. My wife and I have talked
> through whether we should be allowing him to play and agreed that the
> moment we observe behavior that we believe has been brought about through
> playing UT2004 we will cut it out imedietley.
>
> The key I think is the child itself, and the rest of the upbringing they
> receive. I dont believe UT2004 as part of a balanced diet is automatically
> a bad thing.
>
> Jon

By that same reasoning you should let him drink beer too, as long as he
won't get drunk. Be a parent dude. A six year old kid can not distinguish
reality from fiction to any great degree. He still thinks a fat guy comes
down the chimney (you probably don't have anyway) and leaves him gifts,
along with the little fairy taking his teeth from under his pillow and
leaving money.
There is not one single study that says it is OK for kids to play violent
video games in any amount without a lasting negative effect. If you doubt
me, then look him right in the eye this evening and say "I'm thinking of
fragging your mother this evening with the lightning gun. Do you think I
should use the impact hammer instead so that her gibs will go all over the
hallway?" If he has such a wonderful sense of reality he will know you are
joking. After all, it's just a game to him.

Isn't it?
Anonymous
August 18, 2005 3:53:13 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament (More info?)

Ho hum... Can't stay out of this discussion anymore, partly because
it's
interesting, partly because it's a very important one...

I think I walk over to goPostal and start nodding... I really don't
think
there is much such young kids can learn from playing UT that they can't
get from less violent games or otherwise. Hell, I play Shrek2 with my
oldest son (4.5 yo) and even that feels a bit too violent :) 

I definitely doesn't let him, nor his younger brother, watch TV
unrestricted
(like the news, even though in Sweden they mostly don't show much
blood and gore).

One thing I don't think has come up in this discussion is 'Why UT?',
and
quite frankly I think it's because the parent (YOU!) wants to play UT!
That's not really what parenting is all about :p  How much I enjoy
watching
boxing or K1 on the telly, I go play with my son's toys or read him a
book
instead of inviting him to the TV sofa. On the other hand, I really
hope I'll
be able to watch boxing and playing UT(2010?) with my sons when they've
grown up a bit, so they also can enjoy such wonderful entertainment
(ehm...).

(Can't say I feel like I'm so successful in bringing the boys up,
though,
damn they just don't listen do they!)

/impslayer, ye peaceful fragger
Anonymous
August 18, 2005 5:12:54 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament (More info?)

goPostal wrote:
>
> "Bishman" <jonathan.bishop@btinternet.com> wrote in message
> news:D e00u0$p0f$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
>> Hmmm.
>>
>> Ok so I am going to go against the majority of the posts here and say I
>> let my 6 year old play and have no issues at this point in time.
>>
>> I sort of go along with the Cartoon comment made in a previous response. I
>> believe my son is inteligent enough to diferentiate ( even at this early
>> age) the difference between real life and an artifiacial environment. He
>> enjoys driving the vehicles and exploring the worlds and yes shooting the
>> enemies. He doesnt carry this shooting / combat / war theme into other
>> areas of his non computer game and role play. My wife and I have talked
>> through whether we should be allowing him to play and agreed that the
>> moment we observe behavior that we believe has been brought about through
>> playing UT2004 we will cut it out imedietley.
>>
>> The key I think is the child itself, and the rest of the upbringing they
>> receive. I dont believe UT2004 as part of a balanced diet is automatically
>> a bad thing.
>>
>> Jon
>
> By that same reasoning you should let him drink beer too, as long as he
> won't get drunk. Be a parent dude. A six year old kid can not distinguish
> reality from fiction to any great degree. He still thinks a fat guy comes
> down the chimney (you probably don't have anyway) and leaves him gifts,
> along with the little fairy taking his teeth from under his pillow and
> leaving money.
> There is not one single study that says it is OK for kids to play violent
> video games in any amount without a lasting negative effect. If you doubt
> me, then look him right in the eye this evening and say "I'm thinking of
> fragging your mother this evening with the lightning gun. Do you think I
> should use the impact hammer instead so that her gibs will go all over the
> hallway?" If he has such a wonderful sense of reality he will know you are
> joking. After all, it's just a game to him.
>
> Isn't it?
>

Hey goPostal,

No disrespect, but how many kids you got?

I only ask because it always seems that it's the childless folks who are
always underestimating my kids grasp on reality. My kids watch, as did my
wifes kids and my older kids. All my buddies' kids have watched and
played. No body has ever had a problem except those (non-parents) who've
tut-tutted us and told us how to raise our kids. My kids have also tried
beer as well as spirits (they mostly don't like them, except for my 18
year old daughter who wanted more absolut after her first taste off my
finger at about two years old. She just made the Dean's list at Stevens,
on a full scholarship in case you're wondering.)

I guess what I'm trying to say is "Yeah, putting them down in front of
war and violence and blood and gibs would be a bad thing if there was
no other context." I don't know any parents who do that, though.
Bringing up kids consists of a lot more than just controlling what they
watch. I've never censored my kids, except for hard core pornography and
that mainly because it's just too embarrassing for me, but I've always
been there to explain and answer questions.

Anyway, no flame, just another point of view.

--
{AGUT}DeadMan
loyalty above all, save honor
Anonymous
August 18, 2005 5:12:55 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament (More info?)

"{AGUT}DeadMan" <oldman1961@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:p gRMe.13221$VZ6.4580@fe03.news.easynews.com...
> goPostal wrote:
> Hey goPostal,
>
> No disrespect, but how many kids you got?
>
> I only ask because it always seems that it's the childless folks who are
> always underestimating my kids grasp on reality. My kids watch, as did my
> wifes kids and my older kids. All my buddies' kids have watched and
> played. No body has ever had a problem except those (non-parents) who've
> tut-tutted us and told us how to raise our kids. My kids have also tried
> beer as well as spirits (they mostly don't like them, except for my 18
> year old daughter who wanted more absolut after her first taste off my
> finger at about two years old. She just made the Dean's list at Stevens,
> on a full scholarship in case you're wondering.)
>
> I guess what I'm trying to say is "Yeah, putting them down in front of
> war and violence and blood and gibs would be a bad thing if there was
> no other context." I don't know any parents who do that, though.
> Bringing up kids consists of a lot more than just controlling what they
> watch. I've never censored my kids, except for hard core pornography and
> that mainly because it's just too embarrassing for me, but I've always
> been there to explain and answer questions.
>
> Anyway, no flame, just another point of view.
>
> --
> {AGUT}DeadMan
> loyalty above all, save honor

No disrespect taken dude. I have learned far more in my life from people
I've disagreed with than ones I didn't.

I don't want to come across as one of those bible-thumpin', Christian
Coalition, right wing conservative dullards. Parenting is all about setting
limits and creating moderation. There is absolutly no good that can come
from desensitizing a 5 or 6 year old kid with repetitive person-on-person
violence. Kids that age are like a sponge. They absorb everything, taking
very little time to "process" information into it's proper place. That's why
they dream so heavily and vividly. Part of the "wiring" of the brain is
being completed about this time too. Don't you remember when your kids
started to learn to read? It was like one day they couldn't then *BAM* it
seemed a week later they were doing sentences out of their primer. To about
the age of seven the average child learns faster than they ever will for the
rest of their life.

My parents were real Bohemian about my upbringing and I was glad for that. I
hunted with my Pop almost out of diapers. Still, the gore of cleaning an
animal came with a lecture about conservationism and man's proper place in
things. This gave perspective to the things I was exposed to. Letting a kid
play a violent, bloody game like UT has no mitigating factors like that.

There was a quite interesting study done of US Marine soldiers that
subsequently became policemen. The ones involved in shootings were found to
be way too quick to pull the trigger in a confrontation. This was traced
back to the marine training (sometimes years earlier) to fire quickly (and
multiply) at a target in order to kill it efficiently. The marines
eventually had to institute a "deprogramming" if you will of the small-arms
training in order to make it less "permanent". And these are adults. The
same type of programming occurs with UT. How many threads have we all
laughed through when people "see" skaarj around corners at work, or think
about clearing a lane of traffic with a 'deemer out of the blue? How many
games have you played where you came off the comp breathing hard or pumped
up about a victory? After a while the mind starts to accept the game as a
sort of reality, much like a hypnosis. Hell, everyone has jumped at a scary
movie. You did know it wasn't real, but for a time reality was suspended by
your mind. Kids do it all the time with play. That's why violent games are
so damn dangerous to kids. They will accept them as a perverse sort of
reality if they are exposed enough. Study after study confirms this. You
can't "good parent" your way around this.

I do applaud your sense of fairness for your kids. I think it's great to be
honest to kids. Just today we were at a petting zoo and a couple of rams
were mounting a ewe in front of everyone. Most of the parents tried to keep
their kids away and hide it. There were a couple that stood like me and
explained to our kids what we were watching and that it was a natural thing
we were seeing. Kids are curious creatures. They will fill in the blanks for
you if you don't.

Oh, and I have three kids. (And TONS of mistakes with raising them.)
Anonymous
August 19, 2005 2:17:31 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament (More info?)

Ok I sort of see your point however, UT2004 is set in worlds that simply do
not have a parrallel in the 'real wordl'.

How many tanks do you see driving along a beach ? How many people do you
know that carry rocket launchers when they go out ?. Where do hovering
vehicles feature in your daily commute to work ? If my son wants to re-enact
the "killing" of a vischious looking clown, which one of the "weapons" in my
house do you think relate to any one of the weapons in UT2004 ( and by the
way I am English so we dont have firearms in our houses.)

My point is there is no comparison between UT2004 and real life. It is total
detached fantasy plain and simple. I will however not let him play the Grand
Theft Auto series of games (I dont have them for one ), because they are
directly related to the world we live in . The characters are recognisable
as people you may see in the street. That game is designed to be like real
life, with real life scenarious, violence and images and therefore totaly
unsuitable for a young child.

JB


"goPostal" <none@this.net> wrote in message
news:mbPMe.7246$F_7.3406@fe06.lga...
>
> "Bishman" <jonathan.bishop@btinternet.com> wrote in message
> news:D e00u0$p0f$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
>> Hmmm.
>>
>> Ok so I am going to go against the majority of the posts here and say I
>> let my 6 year old play and have no issues at this point in time.
>>
>> I sort of go along with the Cartoon comment made in a previous response.
>> I believe my son is inteligent enough to diferentiate ( even at this
>> early age) the difference between real life and an artifiacial
>> environment. He enjoys driving the vehicles and exploring the worlds and
>> yes shooting the enemies. He doesnt carry this shooting / combat / war
>> theme into other areas of his non computer game and role play. My wife
>> and I have talked through whether we should be allowing him to play and
>> agreed that the moment we observe behavior that we believe has been
>> brought about through playing UT2004 we will cut it out imedietley.
>>
>> The key I think is the child itself, and the rest of the upbringing they
>> receive. I dont believe UT2004 as part of a balanced diet is
>> automatically a bad thing.
>>
>> Jon
>
> By that same reasoning you should let him drink beer too, as long as he
> won't get drunk. Be a parent dude. A six year old kid can not distinguish
> reality from fiction to any great degree. He still thinks a fat guy comes
> down the chimney (you probably don't have anyway) and leaves him gifts,
> along with the little fairy taking his teeth from under his pillow and
> leaving money.
> There is not one single study that says it is OK for kids to play violent
> video games in any amount without a lasting negative effect. If you doubt
> me, then look him right in the eye this evening and say "I'm thinking of
> fragging your mother this evening with the lightning gun. Do you think I
> should use the impact hammer instead so that her gibs will go all over the
> hallway?" If he has such a wonderful sense of reality he will know you are
> joking. After all, it's just a game to him.
>
> Isn't it?
>
August 19, 2005 2:17:32 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament (More info?)

On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 22:17:31 +0000 (UTC), "Bishman"
<jonathan.bishop@btinternet.com> wrote:

>Ok I sort of see your point however, UT2004 is set in worlds that simply do
>not have a parrallel in the 'real wordl'.
>
>How many tanks do you see driving along a beach ? How many people do you
>know that carry rocket launchers when they go out ?. Where do hovering
>vehicles feature in your daily commute to work ? If my son wants to re-enact
>the "killing" of a vischious looking clown, which one of the "weapons" in my
>house do you think relate to any one of the weapons in UT2004 ( and by the
>way I am English so we dont have firearms in our houses.)

Hmm, (not to start any flame wars here), but does anybody find it kind
of ironic that you native Englishmen have more faith in your
children's emotional maturity level than your government has in you?

Sorry, that last sentence there just struck me as kind of pathetic.
Anonymous
August 19, 2005 2:17:33 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament (More info?)

"thumper" <thumper@magpage.com> wrote in message
news:5gbag1l0i9dm20ugdte0frcg3nldm9vfh7@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 22:17:31 +0000 (UTC), "Bishman"
> <jonathan.bishop@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>>Ok I sort of see your point however, UT2004 is set in worlds that simply
>>do
>>not have a parrallel in the 'real wordl'.
>>
>>How many tanks do you see driving along a beach ? How many people do you
>>know that carry rocket launchers when they go out ?. Where do hovering
>>vehicles feature in your daily commute to work ? If my son wants to
>>re-enact
>>the "killing" of a vischious looking clown, which one of the "weapons" in
>>my
>>house do you think relate to any one of the weapons in UT2004 ( and by the
>>way I am English so we dont have firearms in our houses.)
>
> Hmm, (not to start any flame wars here), but does anybody find it kind
> of ironic that you native Englishmen have more faith in your
> children's emotional maturity level than your government has in you?
>
> Sorry, that last sentence there just struck me as kind of pathetic.

Actually it's pretty interesting that the opinions are falling where they
are. Me being American, the world home for violence and guns in society, and
having an anti-gaming for children stance while the European contingent has
a safer general society with much less guns being generally pro-gaming for
kids is surprising.

I know it is by no means scientific, but would the lurkers chime in with a
simple where you live (nationality) and whether you think it is OK for kids
to play FPS? I'm really quite interested in how people feel around the
world. Obviously we have an older than normal demographic that hangs around
here (no jab intended :)  so the opinions are pretty valuable as most of us
have children.

Besides it's nice to have an honest discussion in here!
Anonymous
August 19, 2005 4:10:47 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament (More info?)

goPostal wrote:
....
>
> I know it is by no means scientific, but would the lurkers chime in with a
> simple where you live (nationality) and whether you think it is OK for kids
> to play FPS? I'm really quite interested in how people feel around the
> world. Obviously we have an older than normal demographic that hangs around
> here (no jab intended :)  so the opinions are pretty valuable as most of us
> have children.
>
> Besides it's nice to have an honest discussion in here!

I was just thinking about it myself, where people actually came from
and if that would be clearly visible in their opinions...

Well, anyway, I'm from Sweden, where I'd say we're very cautious in
regards to weapons normally. Very few have their own weapons, it's
relatively hard to get a permit for it (for hunting etc). Obviously,
the criminals can be armed, but I think it's still rather few crimes
with firearms involved (being used, anyway, all sorts of replicas and
the like have been used to scare people though).

And as I stated earlier, I'm against letting children play games in the
UT genre. Kids are 4.5 and 2 yo.

/impslayer, ye younge fragger

(Did very few manual linebreaks in this post, let's see how Google will
handle that, as my previous post looked ugly...)
Anonymous
August 19, 2005 5:43:48 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament (More info?)

"Bishman" <jonathan.bishop@btinternet.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:D e31dr$nui$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
> Ok I sort of see your point however, UT2004 is set in worlds that simply
> do not have a parrallel in the 'real wordl'.
>
> How many tanks do you see driving along a beach ? How many people do you
> know that carry rocket launchers when they go out ?. Where do hovering
> vehicles feature in your daily commute to work ? If my son wants to
> re-enact the "killing" of a vischious looking clown, which one of the
> "weapons" in my house do you think relate to any one of the weapons in
> UT2004 ( and by the way I am English so we dont have firearms in our
> houses.)
>
> My point is there is no comparison between UT2004 and real life. It is
> total detached fantasy plain and simple. I will however not let him play
> the Grand Theft Auto series of games (I dont have them for one ), because
> they are directly related to the world we live in . The characters are
> recognisable as people you may see in the street. That game is designed to
> be like real life, with real life scenarious, violence and images and
> therefore totaly unsuitable for a young child.
>
> JB
>
And where would you draw the line? What about mods like Tactical Ops,
Infiltration, Red Orchestra, etc.? I'm sure (well I hope) you don't have any
of this weapons in your house either, but these weapons are not so
unrealistiv that they wouldn't exist. I think the point of this discussion
is not if kids are able to differentiate between computer games and real
life but if they are in danger to learn violence as a method of solving
problems which it is - I hope everyone here agrees on this - definitely not!
I don't share the opinion that childs turn into monsters just because they
play violent games. Everyone has to know his children and there are no two
children who equal each other, but generally speaking FPS are not for little
children. You wouldn't let a 5yo drive your car although he might be able to
handle everyday situations. The questionable situations are not the everyday
ones but the exceptional ones.
Anonymous
August 19, 2005 5:43:49 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament (More info?)

"Ralf Glauberman" <ralfglauberman@gmx.de> wrote in message
news:D e36bf$fot$1@svr12.m-online.net...
The questionable situations are not the everyday
> ones but the exceptional ones.
>


That's a really good way of simplifying it Ralf.
August 19, 2005 5:53:52 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament (More info?)

"goPostal" <none@this.net> wrote in message
news:SDaNe.235$WO2.71@fe06.lga...

| Actually it's pretty interesting that the opinions are falling where
they
| are. Me being American, the world home for violence and guns in
society, and
| having an anti-gaming for children stance while the European
contingent has
| a safer general society with much less guns being generally
pro-gaming for
| kids is surprising.
|
| I know it is by no means scientific, but would the lurkers chime in
with a
| simple where you live (nationality) and whether you think it is OK
for kids
| to play FPS? I'm really quite interested in how people feel around
the
| world. Obviously we have an older than normal demographic that hangs
around
| here (no jab intended :)  so the opinions are pretty valuable as most
of us
| have children.
|
| Besides it's nice to have an honest discussion in here!
|
|

First, Thumper's post was way off base, and I have no intent to launch
a gun control law debate, as there are pro's and con's to both sides.
The irony is that anyone would make such a cheap jab at someone asking
a serious question or making a considered commentary on an interesting
topic such as "FPS games for little ones, is it good or bad".

As to goPostal's query, I'm a US (Midwest) resident, and have to say,
in my experiences with the little ones, and I have one of my own
(though she's not old enough yet for any puter fun), I think each
child should be evaluated individually in regard to their ability to
experience and/or cope with "imaginary violence". I recall as a kid
we were exposed to countless acts of violence. For example, have you
ever watched Bugs Bunny or Road Runner cartoons?, or the 3 stooges? or
Space Ghost (now I'm dating myself)? Such television programming
designed for kids is quite violent, yet my generation had no stronger
a propensity to violence than earlier generations (at least I think
this is so, no data to back up my statement, but I'm a 60's experience
kid, and what a time that was, peace, love and plenty of anti-war
protest violence). In fact, the extreme violence in children seems to
me to emanate from other more serious problems, such as a bad home
life, poor parenting, isolation or insecurity problems, and other
"light" mental health maladies.

I do not for a minute "buy in" to these preposterous legal defenses
asserted by some lawyers that "the teen who committed a horrible crime
learned such heinous acts by playing the GTA games", that's all
poppycock. Why his lawyer did not also assert the "Road Runner"
defense or the "bugs bunny" defense is beyond me, because these are
certainly as applicable as the GTA defense, iow, hey, the Road Runner
does this type of violence to good ole Wiley Coyote, so my client
thought it was OK to do the same to others. I simply would never "buy
in" to such a preposterous argument. Of course, circumstances can be
extreme, and an isolated child who is not exposed to regular normal
society might believe such violence is acceptable.

Now, as to kids playing FPS games, well, I would be reluctant to let 5
or 6 year olds play such games, but beyond age 8 or so, the harm would
probably be minimal if not non-existent given the violent content
exposure that a child experiences with television programming. By age
8, all the other kids at school have passed the word on Santa and the
Easter Bunny, and the tooth fairy, so imaginary fantasy characters
have pretty much been placed in perspective by the children.

The important role of a parent in this situation, in my humble
opinion, is to make certain the child properly distinguishes fantasy
from reality. If there is even the slightest hint that the child is
more prone to confuse fantasy and reality, then FPS games could
present a negative impression or cause a negative reaction. For
example, any of us who have immersed ourselves in some good old UT
action have probably had at least one dream of playing the game, I
have any way. Such dreams might be harmful to kids, but I cannot be
certain, since I'm not a psychologist or psychiatrist.

Just a few of my thoughts on the topic, which are neither right or
wrong, and I'll be the first to admit I would lean toward keeping FPS
games away from kids as long as possible, though I'm an avid fan of
such games. OK, I'll fess up, I'm 48 and we have a 15 month old
child. So I got married a bit late (age 40), and the wife is 13 years
younger, so yes, I'm a cradle robber also, hehe.
--
Best regards,
Kyle
Anonymous
August 19, 2005 8:05:04 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament (More info?)

Duffguy wrote:
> Hi
> I am Swiss, 38yrs old and have no children so far.
> Almost all adult men in this country have their army weapons
> (with ammo) at home. Surprisingly, there is only a few abuse
> known.
>

Hey Duffguy! I remember playing you a couple of years ago! So that was
what the '66' stood for... I'm a 66er myself too, birthday late in
november so I'm still
38 too :) 

/impslayer
Anonymous
August 19, 2005 4:28:44 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament (More info?)

Hi
I am Swiss, 38yrs old and have no children so far.
Almost all adult men in this country have their army weapons
(with ammo) at home. Surprisingly, there is only a few abuse
known.

If I had children, I would only let them play violent games,
when I were 100% sure this wouldn't harm them. Every character
is different, so some are able to handle it early, some are never...

When I was about 14, in Switzerland was a discussion about violent
movies. Some politicians wanted to ban these films from cinemas.
I, and many of my friends liked to watch gory movies. I thought that
it is clear for everyone, these stories are unreal and plain fantasy.
I found this arguments against these movies ridiculous.
My opinion got adjusted, when there was Mad Max shown in theatres.
Afterwards we had some kids in school behave like 'clan leaders'. Gang
wars were fought (sp?), and we had a lot of (mostly harmless) conflicts.
This was never a serious thing though. But I found out, some people have
'learned' their bad behaviour, just by watching a movie.

I am still against censorship. But when it comes to confront children
with problematic content, one should be very cautious. We all have the
responsability to prepare our children as good as it get for the real
life. This includes teaching them the rules to live in a community, but
also to have fun in virtual gunfights. I got told from my parents a good
proverb: 'Your freedom ends there, where someone else's freedom begins'

duffguy66
August 20, 2005 1:20:08 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament (More info?)

On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 01:53:52 -0500, "Kyle" <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>First, Thumper's post was way off base, and I have no intent to launch
>a gun control law debate, as there are pro's and con's to both sides.
>The irony is that anyone would make such a cheap jab at someone asking
>a serious question or making a considered commentary on an interesting
>topic such as "FPS games for little ones, is it good or bad".

Pfft, make an innocent observation.

Typical modern American liberal "let's don't do anything to offend
anyone" answer as to be expected though.

No wonder the rest of the world dumps all over us lately.
Anonymous
August 21, 2005 6:36:18 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament (More info?)

Am Wed, 17 Aug 2005 18:50:40 +0000 (UTC) schrieb Bishman:

> Hmmm.
>
> Ok so I am going to go against the majority of the posts here and say I let
> my 6 year old play and have no issues at this point in time.
>
> I sort of go along with the Cartoon comment made in a previous response. I
> believe my son is inteligent enough to diferentiate ( even at this early
> age) the difference between real life and an artifiacial environment. He
> enjoys driving the vehicles and exploring the worlds and yes shooting the
> enemies. He doesnt carry this shooting / combat / war theme into other areas
> of his non computer game and role play. My wife and I have talked through
> whether we should be allowing him to play and agreed that the moment we
> observe behavior that we believe has been brought about through playing
> UT2004 we will cut it out imedietley.
>
> The key I think is the child itself, and the rest of the upbringing they
> receive. I dont believe UT2004 as part of a balanced diet is automatically a
> bad thing.
>
> Jon


Though these are my favorite games. I dont think thats a game for a six
year old child. never ever.
Well, i played cowboy vs. indians in that age, but this is something
different.
*But* we played that in reality. Many of these children grow up in a world
of digital extremes and really dont know the real world any more. watch
these fat potatoe kids. that never existed 25 years before. Have u seen
discovery channel about todays children? 75 percent not been able to stand
on one leg?
I like these games, but keep the childs away from them as long as u can,
and if u cant, go out with them on the playground or kindergarden and train
them there.

SCNR HTH sry my english
Anonymous
August 21, 2005 7:02:57 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament (More info?)

Am Thu, 18 Aug 2005 18:36:28 -0700 schrieb goPostal:

> "Ralf Glauberman" <ralfglauberman@gmx.de> wrote in message
> news:D e36bf$fot$1@svr12.m-online.net...
> The questionable situations are not the everyday
>> ones but the exceptional ones.
>>
>
>
> That's a really good way of simplifying it Ralf.

No, thats not to simplify this. if u could read and turn the brain on, u
would have understood. the root is about children, not u.

well IIRC i was 13 when playing my first playing pong or tank wars, but
this was so completely different from these realistic games today, btw i am
39 now, but no children, but i sometimes care about them to help their
mothers.
I dunno understand your attitude, play the game, but dont let childs play
that.

HTH
Anonymous
August 21, 2005 7:10:15 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament (More info?)

Am Thu, 18 Aug 2005 20:58:52 -0400 schrieb thumper:

> On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 22:17:31 +0000 (UTC), "Bishman"
> <jonathan.bishop@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>>Ok I sort of see your point however, UT2004 is set in worlds that simply do
>>not have a parrallel in the 'real wordl'.
>>
>>How many tanks do you see driving along a beach ? How many people do you
>>know that carry rocket launchers when they go out ?. Where do hovering
>>vehicles feature in your daily commute to work ? If my son wants to re-enact
>>the "killing" of a vischious looking clown, which one of the "weapons" in my
>>house do you think relate to any one of the weapons in UT2004 ( and by the
>>way I am English so we dont have firearms in our houses.)
>
> Hmm, (not to start any flame wars here), but does anybody find it kind
> of ironic that you native Englishmen have more faith in your
> children's emotional maturity level than your government has in you?
>
> Sorry, that last sentence there just struck me as kind of pathetic.

Sorry, due to the lack of a tracing proggi, (new system), i dunno whether u
r an englishman or an american.

americans (plz dont bite me) tend to be more cruel than europeans in games
(i mean the childs).
this is not a political statement, just an excursion into six years of
Unreal Tournament...

SCNR
Anonymous
August 21, 2005 8:00:29 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament (More info?)

Please, really please, learn how to quote. The Net ist full of infos and
soft about that.

> First, Thumper's post was way off base, and I have no intent to launch
> a gun control law debate, as there are pro's and con's to both sides.
> The irony is that anyone would make such a cheap jab at someone asking
> a serious question or making a considered commentary on an interesting
> topic such as "FPS games for little ones, is it good or bad".

I agree, thats a serious question

> As to goPostal's query, I'm a US (Midwest) resident, and have to say,
> in my experiences with the little ones, and I have one of my own
> (though she's not old enough yet for any puter fun), I think each
> child should be evaluated individually in regard to their ability to
> experience and/or cope with "imaginary violence". I recall as a kid
> we were exposed to countless acts of violence. For example, have you
> ever watched Bugs Bunny or Road Runner cartoons?, or the 3 stooges? or
> Space Ghost (now I'm dating myself)?

Yup, I even recall BugsBunny, Daffy Duck, Tom and Jerry, even Stan and Olli
were quite crucial, but thats not the topic.

> Such television programming
> designed for kids is quite violent, yet my generation had no stronger
> a propensity to violence than earlier generations (at least I think
> this is so, no data to back up my statement, but I'm a 60's experience
> kid, and what a time that was, peace, love and plenty of anti-war
> protest violence). In fact, the extreme violence in children seems to
> me to emanate from other more serious problems, such as a bad home
> life, poor parenting, isolation or insecurity problems, and other
> "light" mental health maladies.

Full ACK. thats what i told some posts before

> I do not for a minute "buy in" to these preposterous legal defenses
> asserted by some lawyers that "the teen who committed a horrible crime
> learned such heinous acts by playing the GTA games", that's all
> poppycock. Why his lawyer did not also assert the "Road Runner"
> defense or the "bugs bunny" defense is beyond me, because these are
> certainly as applicable as the GTA defense, iow, hey, the Road Runner
> does this type of violence to good ole Wiley Coyote, so my client
> thought it was OK to do the same to others. I simply would never "buy
> in" to such a preposterous argument. Of course, circumstances can be
> extreme, and an isolated child who is not exposed to regular normal
> society might believe such violence is acceptable.

It seems, u live in the US? here in Europe we dont have these strange
behavior of the Rights-System...

> Now, as to kids playing FPS games, well, I would be reluctant to let 5
> or 6 year olds play such games, but beyond age 8 or so, the harm would
> probably be minimal if not non-existent given the violent content
> exposure that a child experiences with television programming.

Now, its getting stranged. U wanna justify this by work?


Sorry rest snipped.

SCNR ant HTH
Anonymous
August 21, 2005 8:00:30 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament (More info?)

Am Fri, 19 Aug 2005 21:20:08 -0400 schrieb thumper:

> Typical modern American liberal "let's don't do anything to offend
> anyone" answer as to be expected though.
>
> No wonder the rest of the world dumps all over us lately.

Cool thx
Anonymous
August 21, 2005 8:00:30 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament (More info?)

U understand the difference between u and a 6 year old one?

Oh no, how dumb? cant get this into my head. U dont wanna understand the
problematics about?

Huh...
Anonymous
August 21, 2005 8:00:30 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament (More info?)

Am Tue, 16 Aug 2005 18:15:03 GMT schrieb Blondie:

> And primetime tv is appropriate for a 5 yr old?
>
> Speaking as a parent of 4 children who has credentials in child development
> and am a
> UT playing freak...find a more appropriate age level game for a 5 year old
> to share with your son. I'm sure
> he'll get enough violence in the real world while growing up...no point in
> desensitizing him at such a young age.
>
> I have no problem with older teens playing this game...but it's not for
> small children...and I understand that there are some ppl who don't believe
> this...but that's usually because they're either too young, uneducated about
> the subject, or desensitized themselves.
>
> Blondie
>

Hey whats the borderline? 15? I tent to 16, that might be ok shure.

Moinsen
August 23, 2005 5:35:44 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament (More info?)

"thumper" <thumper@magpage.com> wrote in message
news:p c0dg1d6oe1m7pvh63632j360lgvh4468j@4ax.com...
| On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 01:53:52 -0500, "Kyle" <me@privacy.net> wrote:
| >
| >First, Thumper's post was way off base, and I have no intent to
launch
| >a gun control law debate, as there are pro's and con's to both
sides.
| >The irony is that anyone would make such a cheap jab at someone
asking
| >a serious question or making a considered commentary on an
interesting
| >topic such as "FPS games for little ones, is it good or bad".
|
| Pfft, make an innocent observation.
|
| Typical modern American liberal "let's don't do anything to offend
| anyone" answer as to be expected though.
|
| No wonder the rest of the world dumps all over us lately.
|

The discussion was centered on a particular topic, is that too
difficult for your comprehension level? You made no "innocent
observation", but rather what appeared to me to be an inflammatory and
insulting comment, and in my estimation, intended to elicit a negative
response. Maybe it was merely a tongue in cheek comment, or a bit of
humor or a little jab at our friends in the UK, or perhaps it was with
malice, only you know for certain.

FYI, the appropriate tag would be "politically correct" in describing
statements that sidestep or dodge controversial issues. I would avoid
describing a liberal as one who refrains from making statements that
might offend, as such a characterization is very much astray from
reality. From here, you can only imagine the offensive commentary I
typed in this post, then deleted, in the interest of brevity.

--
regards,
Kyle
August 23, 2005 11:18:46 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament (More info?)

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 01:35:44 -0500, "Kyle" <me@privacy.net> wrote:

>
>
>"thumper" <thumper@magpage.com> wrote in message
>news:p c0dg1d6oe1m7pvh63632j360lgvh4468j@4ax.com...
>| On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 01:53:52 -0500, "Kyle" <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>| >
>| >First, Thumper's post was way off base, and I have no intent to
>launch
>| >a gun control law debate, as there are pro's and con's to both
>sides.
>| >The irony is that anyone would make such a cheap jab at someone
>asking
>| >a serious question or making a considered commentary on an
>interesting
>| >topic such as "FPS games for little ones, is it good or bad".
>|
>| Pfft, make an innocent observation.
>|
>| Typical modern American liberal "let's don't do anything to offend
>| anyone" answer as to be expected though.
>|
>| No wonder the rest of the world dumps all over us lately.
>|
>
>The discussion was centered on a particular topic, is that too
>difficult for your comprehension level? You made no "innocent
>observation", but rather what appeared to me to be an inflammatory and
>insulting comment, and in my estimation, intended to elicit a negative
>response. Maybe it was merely a tongue in cheek comment, or a bit of
>humor or a little jab at our friends in the UK, or perhaps it was with
>malice, only you know for certain.
>
>FYI, the appropriate tag would be "politically correct" in describing
>statements that sidestep or dodge controversial issues. I would avoid
>describing a liberal as one who refrains from making statements that
>might offend, as such a characterization is very much astray from
>reality. From here, you can only imagine the offensive commentary I
>typed in this post, then deleted, in the interest of brevity.

Yah, I like taking jabs at our friends in the UK whenever possible.

And other places (like the US) that have stupid "politically correct"
(liberal?) policymakers in charge.

Um, and BTW, be careful that you don't get into trouble screwing
around on Usenet when you should be working instead.

And thanks for not posting a bunch of "offensive commentary." Saves
me the time of not having to learn to use my Bozo filter.
Anonymous
August 31, 2005 5:34:33 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament (More info?)

Steve Johnson wrote:

> How graphic is the violence in this game? I would like to play
> with my 5 year old son (he mostly watches) and did not know how
> bloody the game is.
>
> Also, I have a home network and would like to play "cooperative"
> with him
> against the computer bad guys. Is that possible and what would I
> need to do?

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/08/31/gaming_jail/

Anyone we know?

(just kidding of course)

Ursa..
Anonymous
September 8, 2005 2:25:37 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament (More info?)

I think you can turn the gore down somewhere....
and the Taunts can be turned off too.


"Steve Johnson" <stevedjohnson@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:o 7MEe.16232$0f.4840@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> How graphic is the violence in this game? I would like to play with my 5
> year old son (he mostly watches) and did not know how bloody the game is.
>
> Also, I have a home network and would like to play "cooperative" with him
> against the computer bad guys. Is that possible and what would I need to
> do?
>
> Thanks.
> Steve
>
May 14, 2006 7:58:24 AM

If you still want to play at least play Invasion in 2004. There is a diference between killing monsters and killing people.
And in DM or other modes the anouncer actualy sais Holy S**t.
You can turn off anouncements gore level and taunts from Options.

By the way I'm 14 years old :mrgreen:
!