Can these mobos do x8 x8?

[reaper2794]

I checked the MSI site, nada...

MSI Z68A-GD55 (B3) LGA 1155

MSI P67A-GD55 (B3) LGA 1155

 

[jaquith]

I'm certain edit: BOTH MOBO's are x16, x8/x8; ALL SLI have to have a minimum of x8 otherwise nVidia won't grant the BIOS key.

 

[reaper2794]

BIOS key...?

 

[jaquith]

Nvidia SLI Licensing keys in the BIOS, last I looked the fee was $5/MOBO, call it what you will. Crossfire can work if there's any free PCIe slot x16, x8, x4. Both SLI/CF are limited to 4 GPU cores. edit: In contrast AMD/ATI doesn't License or limit Crossfire - anything goes - if there's a PCIe and the GPU fits in it then poof run it. nVidia wants the money and quality control.

Search -> http://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1GPEA_en___US371&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=Nvidia+SLI+Licensing

 

[reaper2794]

Alrighty, so where can I see that these mobos have the SLI Licensing Key?

From what I understand, you're telling me they only grant this if you can do x8 x8 or x16 x16, where AMD is fine with x4 x8 and x16 even though x4 basically kills the performance of your video card, am I correct?

 

[jaquith]

Yep! AMD allows CF in x16 + x4 or any permutation you can think of, and the scaling isn't as horrible as you might imagine; see -> http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GTX_480_PCI-Express_Scaling/1.html Don't get me wrong I'm never going to advise anyone to CF x16 + x4 with a $200+ GPUs.

SLI = Y scan down the details towards the bottom. Since there's no NF200 add-on chipets the P67/Z68 is x16 = 1 GPU and x8/x8 = 2 GPU(s).
MSI Z68A-GD55 (B3) -> http://us.msi.com/product/mb/Z68A-GD55--B3-.html#?div=Basic
MSI P67A-GD55 (B3) -> http://us.msi.com/product/mb/P67A-GD55--B3-.html#?div=Basic

 

[reaper2794]

So it says Y next to SLI, meaning it supports x8 x8...

and what's an NF200 chipset do exactly?

 

[jaquith]

Yep you'll get x8/x8 on either MSI you listed.

The NF200 chipset adds x16 lanes 'on top' of the CPU/Chipset's native lanes. Even with an NF200 the maximum is 3-WAY SLI on P67/Z68. In reality the additional lanes are 'funneled' into the native x16 lanes of the P67/Z68,and the NF200 adds a measure latency whereas the native P67/Z68 are directly to the CPU with no latency. Things 'may' change with the PCIe 3.0 which due out later this year in the SB-E & LGA 2011 and Q1 2012 with Ivy Bridge & LGA 1155 new chipsets.

Examples P67/Z68 with NF200:
GA-Z68X-UD7-B3 (rev. 1.0) - http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3847#sp
GA-P67A-UD7-B3 (rev. 1.0) - http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3761#sp
Maximus IV Extreme P67 B3 - http://usa.asus.com/Motherboards/Intel_Socket_1155/Maximus_IV_Extreme/#specifications
P8P67 WS Revolution P67 B3 - http://usa.asus.com/Motherboards/Intel_Socket_1155/P8P67_WS_Revolution/#specifications

 

[reaper2794]

So is SB-E, and Ivy Bridge diff?

How will the sockets on that stuff work, which ones will be using which sockets, and when will they all come out (even rumored dates are fine, I just wanna learn more)

Bulldozer, Ivybridge, SB-E, what are their features and sockets, release dates, etc etc

 

[jaquith]

Yes, the Sandy Bridge-E 32nm is LGA 2011 and offers: Quad Channel, 32-lanes of PCIe 3.0, and the primary difference with Ivy Bridge 22nm LGA 1155 is 16-lanes of PCIe 3.0. I don't really track AMD too much I'm more interested in Intel and nVidia.

Sandy Bridge-E - est ETA November 2011 {Q4 2011}
Ivy Bridge - est ETA March 2012 {Q1 2012}
Bulldozer - est ETA {Past Due} latest is September 2011

Good links:
Sandy Bridge - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Bridge
Future Processors - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_future_Intel_microprocessors
SB-E leaked slides - http://www.donanimhaber.com/islemci/haberleri/Ozel-Haber-intelin-en-hizli-islemcisi-Core-i73960Xin-ilk-test-sonuclari.htm
LGA 2011 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGA_2011
LGA 2011 MOBO - http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/motherboards/2011/06/02/intel-lga2011-motherboard-showcase/1 and http://www.eteknix.com/forum/general-hardware/intel-x79-lga2011-motherboard-3746/
Ivy Bridge + Panther Point (Z77) chipset - http://www.anandtech.com/show/4318/intel-roadmap-ivy-bridge-panther-point-ssds/2

Bulldozer - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulldozer_(processor)

 

[chillin15]

To find out whether P67/Z68 mobos can do 8x/8x, look at this thread:

http://www.overclock.net/intel-motherboards/916189-complete-official-intel-p67-z68-motherboard.html

Most but not all of the boards are listed in that sheet.

 

[jaquith]

I use that link for vCore

 

[chillin15]

lol...Whenever I read a mobo review that boasts about phases, you come to mind

 

[jaquith]

Yeah probably because I actually OC the crap out of everything to know better.

 

[reaper2794]

Wow thank you for all the links... awesome man

If Im not mistaken those insane i7 SB-E CPUs are like in the $1000 range??

Will ALL Ivy Bridge CPUs be using Z77 chipset?

Do you know what advantages the Z77 brings? or features?

Whats a GOOD amount of phases to have in a motherboard? The more the better you can OC right?

 

[jaquith]

The information that I've read the Ivy Bridge can run on P67/Z68 but you'll loose the PCIe 3.0. No one 'knows' the prices of the SB-E, initially there's 3 so 'guessing' $400/$500-$1000 for the Core i7-3960X.

The Z77 offers PCIe 3.0 which is double the bandwidth of the P67/Z68.

Phases - it's all about how well the MOBO Mfg employs them, I prefer the 12+2 and higher phase MOBOs. That overclock.net link illustrates a good correlation between phases and vCore. MOBO's I like - the ASUS P8P67 Pro - Pro lines including Deluxe, but 'for myself' I prefer the Gigabyte UD5/UD7; the UD7 is a 3-WAY and it's more about the 3-WAY than it's 24 phases.

 

[reaper2794]

Im gonna be waiting for the Ivy Bridge CPUs and mobos to upgrade, right now I have a P55 mobo with an i5-750

Do you think Ivy Bridge CPUs will be even easier to OC than Sandy Bridge, or just more efficient?

 

[jaquith]

I've read where they're '20%' faster, and I'd fall off my rocker if you couldn't OC them higher; 22nm vs 32nm - improved efficiency = lower temps and faster bandwidth if done right; less resistance. Skylake/Skymont is 10nm.

If what you have now does the job then you're only wasting money. Kinda like 150FPS on a 60Hz (60 FPS) monitor.

 

[reaper2794]

Hmm, are you saying I shouldnt upgrade from i5-750 to the Ivy Bridge CPUs then?

also, does a 60Hz monitor limit you you 60 FPS max then? Is this really the case..?

Because Im hoping to use FRAPS once I get a 6970 and max out BF3 as much as possible and record without lag, so Im guessing thats a reason why you want a card that can do over 60 FPS even if you have a 60Hz monitor, since recording brings your FPS down

I know that the 6970 wont provide 60 FPS on BF3, I am planning on crossfiring that with another 6970 or upgrading to 7xxx most likely then crossfiring later

Reason I wanna upgrade my mobo is because it can only CF x16 x4 or x1 or something which is terrible so yeah /:

 

[sykozis]

Hmm, are you saying I shouldnt upgrade from i5-750 to the Ivy Bridge CPUs then?

also, does a 60Hz monitor limit you you 60 FPS max then? Is this really the case..?

Because Im hoping to use FRAPS once I get a 6970 and max out BF3 as much as possible and record without lag, so Im guessing thats a reason why you want a card that can do over 60 FPS even if you have a 60Hz monitor, since recording brings your FPS down

I know that the 6970 wont provide 60 FPS on BF3, I am planning on crossfiring that with another 6970 or upgrading to 7xxx most likely then crossfiring later

Reason I wanna upgrade my mobo is because it can only CF x16 x4 or x1 or something which is terrible so yeah /:

The refresh rate is essentially the maximum number of frames the monitor can display per second. So, if your refresh rate is 60hz, you have a maximum of 60fps displayable. All frames beyond that are wasted.

 

[reaper2794]

How bout this the human eye being able to see only 50 FPS stuff, is that all hooey?

 

[sykozis]

Some "researchers" claim the human eye can only see 14fps....some claim higher. I'd suspect the results would have more to do with the testing method and subject being tested seeing as how the human eye doesn't "see" in "frames per second"....

 

[jaquith]

IF your system 'feels' like it's performing 'good', all subjective to a point, then there's no 'reason' to upgrade. It's time to upgrade when those 'feelings' aren't being fulfilled or your PC is somehow inadequate. In my case, I have 3 HD 120Hz monitors in 3-WAY SLI so at 'my' resolution there are indeed times when I 'need' more performance.

When the feelings are gone the Ivy Bridge, but until then invest in a better GPU if that's your issue.

On my 120Hz vs 60Hz monitors I'd be lying if I said I can see the frames, but I can 'sense' the smoother feeling of 120Hz. I have a few 3D Vision games and like it...until the glasses get to me anyway.

'Lagging' especially with online games isn't always about your PC it's often about your network and its' lag. You need to Ping the gaming servers; Verizon FIOS is pretty good. Don't get me wrong, there's nothing 'bad' about >FPS there's a smoothness that comes with it.

You can get a lot more FPS with a better GPU(s) then with faster RAM + CPU combined - it all does work together, but a i5-750 isn't a POS CPU or really too much of a bottleneck. IMO look at a GTX 570/580. Also, IMO on your current system 8GB adds a little spice to the FPS -> http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ram-memory-upgrade,2778-8.html

 

[chillin15]

The information that I've read the Ivy Bridge can run on P67/Z68 but you'll loose the PCIe 3.0. No one 'knows' the prices of the SB-E, initially there's 3 so 'guessing' $400/$500-$1000 for the Core i7-3960X.

The Z77 offers PCIe 3.0 which is double the bandwidth of the P67/Z68.

Phases - it's all about how well the MOBO Mfg employs them, I prefer the 12+2 and higher phase MOBOs. That overclock.net link illustrates a good correlation between phases and vCore. MOBO's I like - the ASUS P8P67 Pro - Pro lines including Deluxe, but 'for myself' I prefer the Gigabyte UD5/UD7; the UD7 is a 3-WAY and it's more about the 3-WAY than it's 24 phases.

heretic, it's all about the phases, wtf are you talking about

Back to the OP, waiting for technology is a losing game....current video cards don't even saturate PCIe2 so PCIe3 is kind of overkill...

 

[jaquith]

How bout this the human eye being able to see only 50 FPS stuff, is that all hooey?

Depends if you're a Borg, but low refresh rates are a strain and some argue what you can perceive. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_rate amongst other studies.

As I said I can tell the difference between a LCD/LED 120Hz monitor and 60Hz - in the day of CRT I hated anything below 100Hz.