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Bootable CD-ROM drive

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December 24, 2004 4:21:12 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Can someone advise the differences between bootable CD-ROM drive and CD-ROM
drive and how to identify them from spec. Is bootable CD-ROM a standard
device or brand specific?

Thanks,

Ray

More about : bootable rom drive

Anonymous
a b D Laptop
December 24, 2004 4:21:13 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

There is no difference. The only difference is in the BIOS, the drive
itself is unchanged.


Ray wrote:
> Can someone advise the differences between bootable CD-ROM drive and CD-ROM
> drive and how to identify them from spec. Is bootable CD-ROM a standard
> device or brand specific?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ray
>
>
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
December 24, 2004 4:21:13 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Most portable CD drive these days should be the USB variety. If your
BIOS says u can boot from a USB device, then yer golden.
Related resources
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
December 24, 2004 11:06:14 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Heres a Q.. Has anyone ever been able to enable USB in dos using the
Cypress driver and boot from a USB device on a machine that does not
support USB boot in BIOS.. I think not but I'm not a software GURU..
Curious??? Thanx in advance.. AND MERRY CHRISTMAS!!
December 24, 2004 1:06:26 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Barry,

If just the bios of drive, the bootable drive should not be so expensive,
i.e., Sony CD-ROM.

Ray

"Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:41CB2A7D.4040507@neo.rr.com...
> There is no difference. The only difference is in the BIOS, the drive
> itself is unchanged.
>
>
> Ray wrote:
>> Can someone advise the differences between bootable CD-ROM drive and
>> CD-ROM drive and how to identify them from spec. Is bootable CD-ROM a
>> standard device or brand specific?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Ray
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
December 24, 2004 1:06:27 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

No, it's the BIOS of the laptop.
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
December 24, 2004 1:06:27 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

It's just the bios that makes a CD bootable or not. There is nothing at
all in the drive itself. All the drive does is read data from the CD
and present it to the software (which, for purposes of booting, is the
bios).


Ray wrote:

> Barry,
>
> If just the bios of drive, the bootable drive should not be so expensive,
> i.e., Sony CD-ROM.
>
> Ray
>
> "Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:41CB2A7D.4040507@neo.rr.com...
>
>>There is no difference. The only difference is in the BIOS, the drive
>>itself is unchanged.
>>
>>
>>Ray wrote:
>>
>>>Can someone advise the differences between bootable CD-ROM drive and
>>>CD-ROM drive and how to identify them from spec. Is bootable CD-ROM a
>>>standard device or brand specific?
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>
>>>Ray
>
>
>
December 24, 2004 1:59:41 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Bobb,

Now, the latest desktop and notebook computers are equipped with boot to USB
device but you need bootable device before you can boot to recovery disk.
For example, most of CD-ROM drive-less notebook pc of Sony and Toshiba need
USB bootable FDD or CD-ROM drive, not just USB FDD or CD-ROM drive. That is
the source of my questions.

Ray

"bobb" <None@NoWhere.com> wrote in message
news:ftums0p7bjm8oklcj4fjjafkjjc5dprbj8@4ax.com...
> No, it's the BIOS of the laptop.
>
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
December 24, 2004 1:59:42 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Ray <NoSpam-Ray282828@Yahoo.com.HK> wrote:

> Now, the latest desktop and notebook computers are equipped with boot
> to USB device but you need bootable device before you can boot to
> recovery disk. For example, most of CD-ROM drive-less notebook pc of
> Sony and Toshiba need USB bootable FDD or CD-ROM drive, not just USB
> FDD or CD-ROM drive. That is the source of my questions.

Barry and Bobb are correct, all FDD and CD drives are bootable, it's simply
a matter of whether or not the machine's BIOS supports it and whether or not
the media is bootable.

--
Regards,

James

Checkout the NEW Thinkpad Forums: http://forum.thinkpads.com
December 26, 2004 4:21:00 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

James,

I am afraid we are talking about different things. Your statement is right
to be applied to desktop machines or notebooks with built-in internal or
external CD-ROM drive, but not always right for notebook computers.

I assume why you did not recognise BOOTABLE floppy drive and CD-ROM drive in
existence probably you did not use notebook computers without built-in
internal or external CD-ROM drive. BIOS support is the first requirement
and almost all latest notebooks have supported it without problem but
booting from non-bootable floppy drive or CD-ROM drive is still a rare case.
Please correct me if my knowledge is outdated.

Ray


"JHEM" <James@ESAD_SPAMMERS.thinkpads.com> ¼¶¼g©ó¶l¥ó·s»D:mKNyd.8567$rL3.7359@trnddc03...
> Ray <NoSpam-Ray282828@Yahoo.com.HK> wrote:
>
>> Now, the latest desktop and notebook computers are equipped with boot
>> to USB device but you need bootable device before you can boot to
>> recovery disk. For example, most of CD-ROM drive-less notebook pc of
>> Sony and Toshiba need USB bootable FDD or CD-ROM drive, not just USB
>> FDD or CD-ROM drive. That is the source of my questions.
>
> Barry and Bobb are correct, all FDD and CD drives are bootable, it's
> simply
> a matter of whether or not the machine's BIOS supports it and whether or
> not
> the media is bootable.
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> James
>
> Checkout the NEW Thinkpad Forums: http://forum.thinkpads.com
>
>
>
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
December 26, 2004 4:21:01 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

There is no such thing as a "non bootable" floppy drive or CD-ROM drive,
however there most certainly is such a thing as lack of BIOS support for
booting of any number of devices. It's not the device (floppy or CD-ROM
drive) that makes the device non-bootable, it's the lack of software
support in the laptop's bios.


Ray wrote:

> James,
>
> I am afraid we are talking about different things. Your statement is right
> to be applied to desktop machines or notebooks with built-in internal or
> external CD-ROM drive, but not always right for notebook computers.
>
> I assume why you did not recognise BOOTABLE floppy drive and CD-ROM drive in
> existence probably you did not use notebook computers without built-in
> internal or external CD-ROM drive. BIOS support is the first requirement
> and almost all latest notebooks have supported it without problem but
> booting from non-bootable floppy drive or CD-ROM drive is still a rare case.
> Please correct me if my knowledge is outdated.
>
> Ray
>
>
> "JHEM" <James@ESAD_SPAMMERS.thinkpads.com> ¼¶¼g©ó¶l¥ó·s»D:mKNyd.8567$rL3.7359@trnddc03...
>
>>Ray <NoSpam-Ray282828@Yahoo.com.HK> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Now, the latest desktop and notebook computers are equipped with boot
>>>to USB device but you need bootable device before you can boot to
>>>recovery disk. For example, most of CD-ROM drive-less notebook pc of
>>>Sony and Toshiba need USB bootable FDD or CD-ROM drive, not just USB
>>>FDD or CD-ROM drive. That is the source of my questions.
>>
>>Barry and Bobb are correct, all FDD and CD drives are bootable, it's
>>simply
>>a matter of whether or not the machine's BIOS supports it and whether or
>>not
>>the media is bootable.
>>
>>--
>>Regards,
>>
>>James
>>
>>Checkout the NEW Thinkpad Forums: http://forum.thinkpads.com
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
December 26, 2004 1:12:30 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Barry,

Thanks for your advice which is new to me.

However, it contradicts to my experience that I use a Sony bootable floppy
drive to work with Sony, Toshiba, Gateway and IBM successfully. I do not
understand if they will write the BIOS to support their competitors. Some
normal Sony, IBM, Mitsumi floppy drives readily available on the market ARE
NOT working as a bootable device.

I am unsure how to prove your statement.

Ray



"Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com>
???????:41CDFDC0.3070203@neo.rr.com...
> There is no such thing as a "non bootable" floppy drive or CD-ROM drive,
> however there most certainly is such a thing as lack of BIOS support for
> booting of any number of devices. It's not the device (floppy or CD-ROM
> drive) that makes the device non-bootable, it's the lack of software
> support in the laptop's bios.
>
>
> Ray wrote:
>
>> James,
>>
>> I am afraid we are talking about different things. Your statement is
>> right to be applied to desktop machines or notebooks with built-in
>> internal or external CD-ROM drive, but not always right for notebook
>> computers.
>>
>> I assume why you did not recognise BOOTABLE floppy drive and CD-ROM drive
>> in existence probably you did not use notebook computers without built-in
>> internal or external CD-ROM drive. BIOS support is the first requirement
>> and almost all latest notebooks have supported it without problem but
>> booting from non-bootable floppy drive or CD-ROM drive is still a rare
>> case. Please correct me if my knowledge is outdated.
>>
>> Ray
>>
>>
>> "JHEM" <James@ESAD_SPAMMERS.thinkpads.com>
>> ¼¶¼g©ó¶l¥ó·s»D:mKNyd.8567$rL3.7359@trnddc03...
>>
>>>Ray <NoSpam-Ray282828@Yahoo.com.HK> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Now, the latest desktop and notebook computers are equipped with boot
>>>>to USB device but you need bootable device before you can boot to
>>>>recovery disk. For example, most of CD-ROM drive-less notebook pc of
>>>>Sony and Toshiba need USB bootable FDD or CD-ROM drive, not just USB
>>>>FDD or CD-ROM drive. That is the source of my questions.
>>>
>>>Barry and Bobb are correct, all FDD and CD drives are bootable, it's
>>>simply
>>>a matter of whether or not the machine's BIOS supports it and whether or
>>>not
>>>the media is bootable.
>>>
>>>--
>>>Regards,
>>>
>>>James
>>>
>>>Checkout the NEW Thinkpad Forums: http://forum.thinkpads.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
December 26, 2004 1:12:31 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Ray <NoSpam-Ray282828@Yahoo.com.hk> wrote:
>
> However, it contradicts to my experience that I use a Sony bootable
> floppy drive to work with Sony, Toshiba, Gateway and IBM
> successfully. I do not understand if they will write the BIOS to
> support their competitors. Some normal Sony, IBM, Mitsumi floppy
> drives readily available on the market ARE NOT working as a bootable
> device.

This is, simply put, nonsense. You can use ANY floppy drive to boot ANY
device that supports booting from the port the drive is connected to.

The same applies to CD drives, there's no restriction based on using one
manufacturer's CD drive connected to another manufacturer's machine.

--
Regards,

James

Checkout the NEW Thinkpad Forums: http://forum.thinkpads.com
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
December 27, 2004 10:28:30 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

It's still software support in the BIOS (or lack of such support) that
keeps some devices from working.

The devices that work adhere to a common interface standard, and more
importantly, they adhere to the SAME interface standard that was used by
whoever wrote the BIOS (and note, many "different" brands of laptops use
BIOS' from the same 3rd party, such as Phoneix, AMI, Award, etc. -- that
is, the bios of a Toshiba and Gateway and Dell may all use the same code).

Any USB floppy drive is capable of reading any floppy diskette, all of
it (every sector). The same is true for any USB CD-ROM drive. But for
the drive to be able to boot on a specific computer, that computer's
bios will have to "talk to" that drive WITHOUT THE USE OF ANY DRIVERS
(since drivers can only be installed AFTER the operating system is booted).

It's absolutely possible to write a BIOS that does this for any given
drive, but different drives are different, and different BIOS' are
different, consequently, by no means will every BIOS (laptop) work with
every drive. But it's the incompatability of the BIOS (lack of support
for the specific drive type) that keeps it from working, not any
inherint inability of the drive to read the boot tracks.


Ray wrote:

> Barry,
>
> Thanks for your advice which is new to me.
>
> However, it contradicts to my experience that I use a Sony bootable floppy
> drive to work with Sony, Toshiba, Gateway and IBM successfully. I do not
> understand if they will write the BIOS to support their competitors. Some
> normal Sony, IBM, Mitsumi floppy drives readily available on the market ARE
> NOT working as a bootable device.
>
> I am unsure how to prove your statement.
>
> Ray
>
>
>
> "Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com>
> ???????:41CDFDC0.3070203@neo.rr.com...
>
>>There is no such thing as a "non bootable" floppy drive or CD-ROM drive,
>>however there most certainly is such a thing as lack of BIOS support for
>>booting of any number of devices. It's not the device (floppy or CD-ROM
>>drive) that makes the device non-bootable, it's the lack of software
>>support in the laptop's bios.
>>
>>
>>Ray wrote:
>>
>>
>>>James,
>>>
>>>I am afraid we are talking about different things. Your statement is
>>>right to be applied to desktop machines or notebooks with built-in
>>>internal or external CD-ROM drive, but not always right for notebook
>>>computers.
>>>
>>>I assume why you did not recognise BOOTABLE floppy drive and CD-ROM drive
>>>in existence probably you did not use notebook computers without built-in
>>>internal or external CD-ROM drive. BIOS support is the first requirement
>>>and almost all latest notebooks have supported it without problem but
>>>booting from non-bootable floppy drive or CD-ROM drive is still a rare
>>>case. Please correct me if my knowledge is outdated.
>>>
>>>Ray
>>>
>>>
>>>"JHEM" <James@ESAD_SPAMMERS.thinkpads.com>
>>>¼¶¼g©ó¶l¥ó·s»D:mKNyd.8567$rL3.7359@trnddc03...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Ray <NoSpam-Ray282828@Yahoo.com.HK> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Now, the latest desktop and notebook computers are equipped with boot
>>>>>to USB device but you need bootable device before you can boot to
>>>>>recovery disk. For example, most of CD-ROM drive-less notebook pc of
>>>>>Sony and Toshiba need USB bootable FDD or CD-ROM drive, not just USB
>>>>>FDD or CD-ROM drive. That is the source of my questions.
>>>>
>>>>Barry and Bobb are correct, all FDD and CD drives are bootable, it's
>>>>simply
>>>>a matter of whether or not the machine's BIOS supports it and whether or
>>>>not
>>>>the media is bootable.
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>Regards,
>>>>
>>>>James
>>>>
>>>>Checkout the NEW Thinkpad Forums: http://forum.thinkpads.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>
Anonymous
a b D Laptop
January 1, 2005 6:46:14 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Barry Watzman wrote:

> It's still software support in the BIOS (or lack of such support) that
> keeps some devices from working.
>
> The devices that work adhere to a common interface standard, and more
> importantly, they adhere to the SAME interface standard that was used by
> whoever wrote the BIOS (and note, many "different" brands of laptops use
> BIOS' from the same 3rd party, such as Phoneix, AMI, Award, etc. -- that
> is, the bios of a Toshiba and Gateway and Dell may all use the same code).
>
> Any USB floppy drive is capable of reading any floppy diskette, all of
> it (every sector). The same is true for any USB CD-ROM drive. But for
> the drive to be able to boot on a specific computer, that computer's
> bios will have to "talk to" that drive WITHOUT THE USE OF ANY DRIVERS
> (since drivers can only be installed AFTER the operating system is
> booted).
>
> It's absolutely possible to write a BIOS that does this for any given
> drive, but different drives are different, and different BIOS' are
> different, consequently, by no means will every BIOS (laptop) work with
> every drive. But it's the incompatability of the BIOS (lack of support
> for the specific drive type) that keeps it from working, not any
> inherint inability of the drive to read the boot tracks.

A point which nobody has brought up is that the stumbling block for
USB-attached devices is not the drive itself but the USB-to-whatever bridge
on the drive--that bridge would be what creates the situation in which a
drive boots on one machine but not on another, both of which in principle
support booting from a USB-attached diskette drive or CD. One would hope
that any BIOS would support at least the more popular bridge chips and that
some effort would be made on the part of the chip designers to keep them
fairly well standardized in terms of command set and timings and whatnot,
but what one would hope and what happens in the real world are not always
the same. And of course with older machines produced when USB was new they
may only support some first-gen bridge chip that was pathologically
different from any current standard.

> Ray wrote:
>
>> Barry,
>>
>> Thanks for your advice which is new to me.
>>
>> However, it contradicts to my experience that I use a Sony bootable
>> floppy
>> drive to work with Sony, Toshiba, Gateway and IBM successfully. I do not
>> understand if they will write the BIOS to support their competitors.
>> Some normal Sony, IBM, Mitsumi floppy drives readily available on the
>> market ARE NOT working as a bootable device.
>>
>> I am unsure how to prove your statement.
>>
>> Ray
>>
>>
>>
>> "Barry Watzman" <WatzmanNOSPAM@neo.rr.com>
>> ???????:41CDFDC0.3070203@neo.rr.com...
>>
>>>There is no such thing as a "non bootable" floppy drive or CD-ROM drive,
>>>however there most certainly is such a thing as lack of BIOS support for
>>>booting of any number of devices. It's not the device (floppy or CD-ROM
>>>drive) that makes the device non-bootable, it's the lack of software
>>>support in the laptop's bios.
>>>
>>>
>>>Ray wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>James,
>>>>
>>>>I am afraid we are talking about different things. Your statement is
>>>>right to be applied to desktop machines or notebooks with built-in
>>>>internal or external CD-ROM drive, but not always right for notebook
>>>>computers.
>>>>
>>>>I assume why you did not recognise BOOTABLE floppy drive and CD-ROM
>>>>drive in existence probably you did not use notebook computers without
>>>>built-in
>>>>internal or external CD-ROM drive. BIOS support is the first
>>>>requirement and almost all latest notebooks have supported it without
>>>>problem but booting from non-bootable floppy drive or CD-ROM drive is
>>>>still a rare case. Please correct me if my knowledge is outdated.
>>>>
>>>>Ray
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"JHEM" <James@ESAD_SPAMMERS.thinkpads.com>
>>>>¼¶¼g©ó¶l¥ó·s»D:mKNyd.8567$rL3.7359@trnddc03...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Ray <NoSpam-Ray282828@Yahoo.com.HK> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Now, the latest desktop and notebook computers are equipped with boot
>>>>>>to USB device but you need bootable device before you can boot to
>>>>>>recovery disk. For example, most of CD-ROM drive-less notebook pc of
>>>>>>Sony and Toshiba need USB bootable FDD or CD-ROM drive, not just USB
>>>>>>FDD or CD-ROM drive. That is the source of my questions.
>>>>>
>>>>>Barry and Bobb are correct, all FDD and CD drives are bootable, it's
>>>>>simply
>>>>>a matter of whether or not the machine's BIOS supports it and whether
>>>>>or not
>>>>>the media is bootable.
>>>>>
>>>>>--
>>>>>Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>>James
>>>>>
>>>>>Checkout the NEW Thinkpad Forums: http://forum.thinkpads.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
!