MSI GeForce GTX 460 HAWK gets uncovered - reaches 1 GHz

notty22

Distinguished


I agree, its very impressive. First mention of 1ghz that I've read that sounds reasonably possible for the enthusiast.
Amazon put the o/c top direct cu on sale, it went from immediate shipping to two weeks in a matter of hours.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003WUXNPO/ref=oss_product?tag=atmlinr-20
 

Asus for GPu... only if you want problems. Worst maker IMO now. It's nowhere the Asus we have known during the Thunderbird days.
 

AMW1011

Distinguished
And I...
I_jizz_in_my_pants_by_HOLIMOUNT.jpg

...in my pants

I must say, this damn GTX 460 thing is making it hard for me to wait for SI for an upgrade!
 

ares1214

Splendid
AMD needs to either hurry up and lower prices, release a new card to go against the 460, maybe a 5790, only spot left :lol: , or to hurry up and release SI. With OC's like this, this card covers about every spot on the reasonable market. Looks like a great card though. Although i wish MSI video cards were as good looking as their motherboards :( :lol:
 
I dont know where AMD/ATI are targeting with the SI cards i heard it wasnt a top to bottom thing and just a couple of cards would be released.
If they are looking at this area then i just dont see how they can price a card or where they can put it ??

Mactronix
 
What do you mean "how they can price a card or where they can put it?"
They can release it at whatever price they think makes sense and will make them money. Just look at the GTX 460 itself. The card's price/performance made no sense in the context of a lineup that already had the GTX 465 but Nvidia released it anyway.
 
Oh I think you are clever enough to know exactly what I mean. Just to be clear I think that within the price/performance structure of what AMD/ATI have out now and adding to that where Nvidia have placed the 460 that its going to be very tricky to find a price/performance point to target a card that would for arguments sake say perform above a 5770 and below a 5850.

The important thing to stress in this post is that im saying within the price/performance structure AMD/ATI have now.
If they want to start cutting prices then its a different kettle of fish. They haven't exactly been falling over themselves to react price wise to the 460 though have they ? So I cant see them bringing in a new tech at a lower price than the older tech when they wont drop the price of the older tech.

So that leaves them trying to place a card that is dearer than a 5770 and would probably perform at a guess around the 5830 area, so thats a similar card to the 460 then.
Of course it all depends on exactly what they bring to the table, and some will just blindly buy either Red or Green so having two very similar cards at the same price/performance isn't necessarily a bar to making sales.

Until we find out whats coming, and so far the rumours are saying its not that special. We can only go on what we know and what I know is that the 460 is one hell of a card at one hell of a price, it overclocks like a demon and covers a huge performance area. On the other hand ATI cards are dearer than they could/should be, the performance isnt bad, far from it. Unfortunatly as of late they have been very specific with the performance range of the cards, so if they keep to the practice of keeping the cards to a definate performance window then the performance range will be small compared to the 460.

I hope im wrong and I hope AMD/ATI put out a stella card that blows the 460 away, just dont see it though :(

Mactronix
 
Hmm. I just don't know why you would think that is a valid way to look at a company introducing a new series of cards. The new cards aren't really meant to the compete with their current lineup, they are meant to replace them. Just like the HD5750/HD5770/HD5830 replaced the HD4850/HD4870/HD4890. There's no reason to think ATI is worried about selling less of their current series because people are buying their new series. Their new series is what they want to sell and they will position in a price/performance ratio that is attractive to the consumer compared to the Nvidia lineup while phasing out the older cards and/or lowering their prices. This is what happens every generation.
 
Come on you know there is never a direct replacement, the new gen overlaps with the old gen somewhere and the pricing of the new gen has nothing to do with selling to the consumer. They price the new gen where they want it and jack up the price of the older gen to make the newer cards look more atractive. Phasing out and lowering the prices dosent work in reality either the 4 series cards are still out there and took an age to come down in price.

Mactronix
 
That only happened with the last series because Nvidia dropped the ball for a while and ATI had no competition really. Now they actually have something on the market from another company to compete against and if you think they aren't going to price the cards competitively then I guess all I can say is I think you are incorrect.
ATI has a real opportunity to twist the screws on Nvidia right now imo. The HD5000 series actually is overpriced. Not for their performance compared to the Nvidia cards but compared to the actual manufacturing costs. If they drop the prices on the HD5000 cards while introducing new, better cards than what Nvidia is offering at the same price points Nvidia will have to respond by cutting prices when their margins are supposedly very small as it is.
 

ares1214

Splendid
actually, IMO, the vast majoirty of the 5xxx series isnt over priced. The only parts that are/were over priced were made over priced due to the release of the gtx 460. With a price drop of $20-40 on both the 5850 and 5830, this problem is more or less fixed, and the 460 loses all the hype going with it. Everything is overpriced for its manufacturing cost, they have to make money too!!! :lol: Also, its not very fair to compare the costs to manufacturing costs. If the i7 costs $120 to make, that doesnt mean intel should sell it for $150, they sell it based on competition. Of course previous generation series of cards "overlap" with newer ones, but they dont really want that. ATI did a very good job with filling all the holes in the budget sectors, possibly least with the 200-250$ sector, where they later released the 5830, and nvidia perfectly placed the 460. Yes, the 4890 held the spot, but they intend to entirely replace every previous card with a new card of greater or equivalent performance. Forward progress, eh?
 
When they released the 5770 it was priced at $159 and a 4870 was $135 give or take a few bucks. Where is the price now ? Well a quick look on New egg shows the 5770 between $174 and 155 and the 4870 still available a full 10 months after the 5770 launch at $160-135.
So no movement at all there then, except both cards have crept up slightly. Why is this ? cant be supply and demand because just about everything they have moved since the 5 series was listed has been a DX11 part according to the sales figures.
What ATI did was a very clinical job of filling in the performance sectors by killing any performance gains that the end user might get from overclocking the cut down cards by slashing either the SP/s or the bus.

The 5770 has always been hidiously over priced by about 20% on a purely performance basis, ATI were banking on the feature set to sell the extra cost to the buyer. Problem is the feature set needs the power of the 5850 + to be effective and so they were basically charging what they could get away with based on Nvidia not having an answer. When Nvida did this sort of thing back with the 8800 cards they were called all sorts of names but it seems people want to make excuses for ATI.
The 5850 and 5870 were a different performance segment and were well priced but the 460 has changed that.
ATI have had the chance to compete on price and chose not to. They cant now compete on performance so that leaves them in the position that so many have sneered at Nvidia over the years for being in, that position being relying on fan boys to buy their mid range cards.
And all this posting is coming from an ATI fan who has never used a Nvidia GPU in his life.

Mactronix {edit for spelling}
 

notty22

Distinguished



Good post.
Ati engineered the 5830 to not be successful, because imo, they never wanted to be in position to have to use a potential 5850/5870 to fill 5830' orders, if the card developed a popular following. As being a fast cheaper alternative to the 5850.
Its sort of the opposite problem stemming from having the gpu based on their large gpu.

So will ATI be working on a Juniper replacement ? To compete against the G104, its going to have to be bigger :)
 

ares1214

Splendid
The 5770 is about $140-150, the 4870 is about $130-140. The 5770 runs 10-20 C cooler, uses a lot less power (50-75 less watts), is almost 1.5" shorter. I forget overclocking, but id assume the 5770 OC's higher as well. Not to mention nice little features like eyefinity (which like you said, the 5770 wont game well with eyefinity) and DX11, which isnt out much, but still. I think all those put together make the 5770 worth the extra 10 or 20 bucks.