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Random map Generator

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April 12, 2004 8:37:48 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament2003 (More info?)

I know that they will never be able to come up with a map generator that can
build levels like humans can but I wish they would at least make one.

One method would be to make a RMG that would just randomly attach pre made
rooms. This would be less flexible but would give the best looking results.

Another method would be to randomly build maps that could them be modified
by humans to give them that polished look. The time it would save in map
building to have something to start with would allow many maps to be made in
shorter times.

I would also like to have the option of playing the existing maps with
random item placement. This would add a new twist to the old maps.


--
Kilowatt@charter.net Put "private" in the subject line.

More about : random map generator

Anonymous
April 12, 2004 10:42:24 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament2003 (More info?)

"Kilowatt" <kilowatt@charter.net> wrote:
>I know that they will never be able to come up with a map generator that can
>build levels like humans can but I wish they would at least make one.

There's a random map generator for HalfLife, but it ends up being
really boring after the first half-dozen levels you build with it.

--
William Smith
ComputerSmiths Consulting, Inc. www.compusmiths.com
April 12, 2004 11:05:56 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament2003 (More info?)

On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:37:48 GMT, "Kilowatt" <kilowatt@charter.net>
wrote:

>I know that they will never be able to come up with a map generator that can
>build levels like humans can but I wish they would at least make one.

That might make sense for Counterstrike type games, but would make for
very dull levels for UT style gameplay.

>I would also like to have the option of playing the existing maps with
>random item placement. This would add a new twist to the old maps.

There is a mutator for that I believe.
--
Andrew. To email unscramble nrc@gurjevgrzrboivbhf.pbz & remove spamtrap.
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
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April 12, 2004 11:37:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament2003 (More info?)

> That might make sense for Counterstrike type games, but would make for
> very dull levels for UT style gameplay.
Do you make maps? I never tried one for UT but I use to make them for Doom
and then Quake.

Doom had a random map generator. It made some pretty good maps and after
you come in and add a wall here and move something there it made great maps.

I made only 2 for Quake and they took me for ever. Just coming up with the
shell lay out and putting in the lighting and stuff took me more time than
it did to make an entire Doom map.

I don't expect any RMG to make anything special but the time it could cut
off making the shell would make a RMG very useful IMO


> There is a mutator for that I believe.
What is a mutator?

"Andrew" <spamtrap@localhost> wrote in message
news:cgml70t1otbuoju75quvorurtgv0duvjdt@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:37:48 GMT, "Kilowatt" <kilowatt@charter.net>
> wrote:
>
> >I know that they will never be able to come up with a map generator that
can
> >build levels like humans can but I wish they would at least make one.
>
> That might make sense for Counterstrike type games, but would make for
> very dull levels for UT style gameplay.
>
> >I would also like to have the option of playing the existing maps with
> >random item placement. This would add a new twist to the old maps.
>
> There is a mutator for that I believe.
> --
> Andrew. To email unscramble nrc@gurjevgrzrboivbhf.pbz & remove spamtrap.
> Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
> please don't top post. Trim messages to quote only relevent text.
> Check groups.google.com before asking a question.
April 13, 2004 4:49:15 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament2003 (More info?)

> There's a random map generator for HalfLife,

Was it done from the people that make HalfLife or an add on?
I really would like to have one for UT.
My guess is much less work would be required to fix what ever was boring
about it than it would be to start from scratch.


<William P.N. Smith> wrote in message
news:4p6m70d2jf46ibuge6bog5uq3cmpuoop4j@4ax.com...
> "Kilowatt" <kilowatt@charter.net> wrote:
> >I know that they will never be able to come up with a map generator that
can
> >build levels like humans can but I wish they would at least make one.
>
> There's a random map generator for HalfLife, but it ends up being
> really boring after the first half-dozen levels you build with it.
>
> --
> William Smith
> ComputerSmiths Consulting, Inc. www.compusmiths.com
Anonymous
April 13, 2004 5:16:07 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament2003 (More info?)

"Andrew" <spamtrap@localhost> wrote in message
news:cgml70t1otbuoju75quvorurtgv0duvjdt@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:37:48 GMT, "Kilowatt" <kilowatt@charter.net>
> wrote:
>
> >I know that they will never be able to come up with a map generator that
can
> >build levels like humans can but I wish they would at least make one.
>
> That might make sense for Counterstrike type games, but would make for
> very dull levels for UT style gameplay.

Ok for Counterstrike? I'd say exactly the opposite, in CS the map layout is
incredibly important - having choke points in the right areas, places with
good fields of fire for snipers, balanced paths to the objectives from both
spawn areas. Random maps in CS just wouldn't work.

Rich
April 13, 2004 5:16:08 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament2003 (More info?)

Do you both agree that a human could fix what ever was wrong with either one
easier than building a level from scratch? You could throw away 50
unworkable levels faster than you could come up with a good one from
scratch.

"Richard Wingrove" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:c5fbg4$140q5$1@ID-129461.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> "Andrew" <spamtrap@localhost> wrote in message
> news:cgml70t1otbuoju75quvorurtgv0duvjdt@4ax.com...
> > On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 16:37:48 GMT, "Kilowatt" <kilowatt@charter.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >I know that they will never be able to come up with a map generator
that
> can
> > >build levels like humans can but I wish they would at least make one.
> >
> > That might make sense for Counterstrike type games, but would make for
> > very dull levels for UT style gameplay.
>
> Ok for Counterstrike? I'd say exactly the opposite, in CS the map layout
is
> incredibly important - having choke points in the right areas, places with
> good fields of fire for snipers, balanced paths to the objectives from
both
> spawn areas. Random maps in CS just wouldn't work.
>
> Rich
>
>
Anonymous
April 13, 2004 5:56:43 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament2003 (More info?)

"Kilowatt" <kilowatt@charter.net> wrote in message
news:wBzec.11962$K_.381423@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> I know that they will never be able to come up with a map generator that
can
> build levels like humans can but I wish they would at least make one.
>
> One method would be to make a RMG that would just randomly attach pre made
> rooms. This would be less flexible but would give the best looking
results.
>
> Another method would be to randomly build maps that could them be modified
> by humans to give them that polished look. The time it would save in map
> building to have something to start with would allow many maps to be made
in
> shorter times.
>
> I would also like to have the option of playing the existing maps with
> random item placement. This would add a new twist to the old maps.
>
>
> --
> Kilowatt@charter.net Put "private" in the subject line.
>
>

Tribes 2 has a random terrain generator. The maps are generally outdoors and
have no glass walls. You can grab a vehicle and fly in any direction for as
long as you want. Of course that's boring, but at least there are no glass
walls.

Actually a better analogy is probably artificial music generators. There,
like map making, making things random is not the problem -- making things
correlated is the problem. Uncorrelated note selection sounds terrible, so
you need to base their selection on some aesthetic principle.

The maps I like best have a coherent theme which often depends on an
artistic vision abstracted from the real world. Plus the map maker has to
anticipate how the gameplay will go. I've never made a map because I think
it would be too hard to make a good one. But writing a program to generate
good maps -- 8o.

A more reasonable goal might be a map making program which filled in a lot
of details for you based on very high level input; e.g.: "I want a Gothic
castle motif with lots of mountains and pine trees". Rules like "make CTF
maps symmetrical" and "make it risky to get the best goodies" could be
applied automatically. Then you would have to move things around to satisfy
various aesthetic and gameplay requirements. Sign me up for a copy after you
write it. :) 

--
Cycho{HHR}
http://home.rochester.rr.com/cyhome/
April 13, 2004 7:23:55 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament2003 (More info?)

"Cy Edmunds" <cedmunds@spamless.rochester.rr.com> wrote in message
news:vNHec.12870$1U2.659@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
> "Kilowatt" <kilowatt@charter.net> wrote in message
> news:wBzec.11962$K_.381423@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > I know that they will never be able to come up with a map generator that
> can
> > build levels like humans can but I wish they would at least make one.
> >
> > One method would be to make a RMG that would just randomly attach pre
made
> > rooms. This would be less flexible but would give the best looking
> results.
> >
> > Another method would be to randomly build maps that could them be
modified
> > by humans to give them that polished look. The time it would save in
map
> > building to have something to start with would allow many maps to be
made
> in
> > shorter times.
> >
> > I would also like to have the option of playing the existing maps with
> > random item placement. This would add a new twist to the old maps.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Kilowatt@charter.net Put "private" in the subject line.
> >
> >
>
> Tribes 2 has a random terrain generator. The maps are generally outdoors
and
> have no glass walls. You can grab a vehicle and fly in any direction for
as
> long as you want. Of course that's boring, but at least there are no glass
> walls.
>
> Actually a better analogy is probably artificial music generators. There,
> like map making, making things random is not the problem -- making things
> correlated is the problem. Uncorrelated note selection sounds terrible, so
> you need to base their selection on some aesthetic principle.
>
> The maps I like best have a coherent theme which often depends on an
> artistic vision abstracted from the real world. Plus the map maker has to
> anticipate how the gameplay will go. I've never made a map because I think
> it would be too hard to make a good one. But writing a program to generate
> good maps -- 8o.
>
> A more reasonable goal might be a map making program which filled in a lot
> of details for you based on very high level input; e.g.: "I want a Gothic
> castle motif with lots of mountains and pine trees". Rules like "make CTF
> maps symmetrical" and "make it risky to get the best goodies" could be
> applied automatically. Then you would have to move things around to
satisfy
> various aesthetic and gameplay requirements. Sign me up for a copy after
you
> write it. :) 
>
> --
> Cycho{HHR}
> http://home.rochester.rr.com/cyhome/
>
>


Well you won't get me to volunteer to write it but if I post the idea here
often enough and enough show interest then someone with the know how might
just give it a try.

I am not asking for a RMG that makes good maps. All I am asking for is some
help in making levels. A randomly generated shell would be a good start.
Give us some bricks and mortar and throw in some lights and we can paint it.
April 13, 2004 11:03:35 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.unreal.tournament2003 (More info?)

William P.N Smith enlightened us with:
> There's a random map generator for HalfLife, but it ends up being
> really boring after the first half-dozen levels you build with it.

I guess we need a random generator for random map generators ;-)

MeltDown
--
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be
a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
For all your UT2003 questions visit http://www.unrealtower.org/faq.php
!