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PC Desktop as cheap as possible, max 1000$

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September 20, 2010 1:28:18 AM

Approximate Purchase Date: between 30-60 days, depends on how the comments/opinions help me =)


Budget Range:
max 1k, I want it to be as cheap as possible, I am a student.


System Usage from Most to Least Important:
Daily Usage (Office, browsing, some programming but not heavy like matlab, some design programs for engineers)
Gaming (Currently I only play WC3, but planning to buy SC2 after I graduate >.< and Diablo3 when it come out, and I want to be able to play racing games such as GT smoothly.. I dont play FPS)
I think that's it...

Parts Not Required:
keyboard, speaker, mouse, speaker, OS, and probably monitor, I have a 17" one right now, but an upgrade can wait


Preferred Website(s) for Parts: newegg.com most likely for the combo deal, or amazon
microcenter has cheap parts, do they need memberships?

Country of Origin: USA


Parts Preferences: Intel i5-760/i7-930/i7-870


Overclocking: Maybe yes


SLI or Crossfire: Maybe not


Monitor Resolution: Using 1280x1024 now, going to upgrade to 1080p/1200p whenever a great deal on IPS monitor kick in...


Additional Comments:
I currently use a laptop and I use it for almost 3 years and I don't want to upgrade it. However, my dad's old pentium 4 desktop broke, so I suggested him to use my laptop and I buy a new one, and he accepted it... YAY!
So, I want a PC that last long, 5 years at least.. I am confused about the upgrade capability of the sockets on LGA1156 and LGA1366... I dont think I will upgrade my processor in a few years since I dont see any needs to upgrade my laptop now other than SC2...
It is very possible though to upgrade my graphic card, so I want the upgrade capability on the graphic card maybe in 2-4 years time range, depends on the games that come out later hehehe
I want a cheap HD too, the capacity is not a problem as I am using 80gb HD and I still have like 20gb space left... I am thinking of upgrading to a SSD perhaps next year, so no need to get great performing HD, I just need great reliability...
I want it to be around 800 if possible, 1000 max after taxes shipping etc...

Thanks before!


edit:
I forgot to mention that I already read other posts before I post this thread, I believe i5-760 is the best bang for the bucks for me, I only want to know the upgrade capability if I want to change the processor/gpu unit in the next few years.. I am not really fond with how to determine if a gpu will match a MB or not... please help me if anyone know...

More about : desktop cheap max 1000

a b B Homebuilt system
September 20, 2010 2:08:53 AM

sayurann said:
So, I want a PC that last long, 5 years at least.. I am confused about the upgrade capability of the sockets on LGA1156 and LGA1366... I dont think I will upgrade my processor in a few years since I dont see any needs to upgrade my laptop now other than SC2...

Both LGA1156 and LGA1366 will be discontinued within the next year. LGA1156 will be discontinued with the introduction of Sandy Bridge in Q1 2011. If you want, you can read up on Sandy Bridge here:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3871/the-sandy-bridge-pre...

If you plan to overclock, there will basically be no need to upgrade your processor; an I5-760 or I7-930 can easily be overclocked to frequencies and thus performance levels much higher than those of the upscale processors on each of their respective sockets, the i7-860/870 on LGA1156 and the i7-950/960 on LGA1366 (these processors are the same just with higher multipliers, stock frequencies). Since no new redesigned processors will be coming out on these sockets, it will never make a lot of sense to upgrade (you could upgrade to a 6 core i7-970/980X on LGA1366 but they will likely always be prohibitively expense, they are over $800 right now).

Comparable Sandy Bridge processors will likely be ~20% faster and will come with better integrated graphics, for what it's worth. You will not be able to overclock the standard retail Sandy Bridge processors, however. There will be a couple enthusiast class processors unlocked for overclocking, but they will likely be prohibitively expensive.

If you don't really ever want to overclock, you might get a better deal waiting for Sandy Bridge to come out. Otherwise, the overclocking capability of the Intel processors on the market today still makes them a great deal.

sayurann said:
It is very possible though to upgrade my graphic card, so I want the upgrade capability on the graphic card maybe in 2-4 years time range, depends on the games that come out later hehehe

You should consider an SLI or Crossfire ready motherboard so that you can just add a second graphics card once the model you've chosen becomes cheaper. All modern motherboards use PCI-Express 2.0 so just switching out your graphics card for a new one won't be a problem; it sounds like 3.0 is coming out at the end of next year but the new cards should be backwards compatible.

The Radeon 6XXX series cards is about to be released. They won't offer a monumental improvement over the 5XXX cards (they are manufactured on the same 40nm scale), but they should help to bring prices down.

sayurann said:
I forgot to mention that I already read other posts before I post this thread, I believe i5-760 is the best bang for the bucks for me, I only want to know the upgrade capability if I want to change the processor/gpu unit in the next few years.. I am not really fond with how to determine if a gpu will match a MB or not... please help me if anyone know...

All new standard PCI-E graphics cards will work with basically all new motherboards (only some small mini ITX motherboards lack a PCI-E slot). You only need to worry about which motherboard you choose if you want to add a second graphics card later, for that you will need an SLI/Crossfire ready motherboard.

sayurann said:
I want it to be around 800 if possible, 1000 max after taxes shipping etc...

You have a lot of choices with this budget. You could fit an i7-930 and Radeon HD 5850 into it now for around $900 (after shipping & rebates but before taxes). You can get an i5-750/760 and GeForce GTX 460 1GB build for as low as $700 (after shipping & rebates but before taxes).

An i7-930 build will cost you about $150 more than a comparable i5-750/760 build when all is said and done (more costly processor, motherboard, and memory).
September 20, 2010 2:55:50 AM

I think I will set aside the socket problem since I dont think I am going to upgrade my processor... Usually the bottle neck of the system performance is on the HDD or RAM, not in processor, in my case...
The sandy bridge came out on Q1 next year, I will have to negotiate with my dad if he has to wait for that long.. I will think about it...

So, for the GPU, GTX 460 or HD5850 will fit my bill?

So, processor 200-300$
GPU 250-300$
Memory ~100$
HDD ~50$
PSU ~100$
Case ~50$
Total 750$-900$

HMM....
if you were me, do you think the 150$ upgrade worth it? I can buy SSD or a new monitor with that money hahaha
btw, do u know anything about microcenter? do I need a membership to buy in that store?
Related resources
a b B Homebuilt system
September 20, 2010 3:39:42 AM

You don't need a membership to shop at Micro Center; you just have to be lucky enough to live by one. You might want to use in-store pickup; the Intel processors sometimes sell out because of their ridiculously low prices.

While you're there you should probably pick up a Samsung Spinpoint F3 hard drive. You can get a 500GB for $45 or a 1TB for $60. You can get everything else you need cheaper in combo deals online from newegg.

The main advantage to the i7-930 is that you get a better motherboard. The PCI-E bus on LGA 1156 motherboards has half the bandwidth. It isn't a problem if you only install one graphics card, but if you want to add a second one, there may be a bottle-neck. LGA 1156 motherboards also have fewer PCI-E x16 slots in general so you might not be able to add more USB 3.0 ports (even maybe Lightpeak ports) later using an expansion card.

If you don't plan on running a high end Crossfire or SLI setup, the i5-760 is a better deal.
September 20, 2010 7:23:58 AM

I am going to check out microcenter this weekend hopefully... If they got 930, I am leaning to 930...

which gpu/psu/MB do u recommend? for 760 and for 930?
what do you think of crossfire 5750 than a 460 or a 5850?
U got a lot of choices over there and I am confused... lol

this is a good reference... where you also replied on the TS new thread...
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/295337-31-1000-budget...
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/295422-31-gaming-buil...
a b B Homebuilt system
September 20, 2010 10:20:20 AM

For an i7-930 build I would go with:

OCZ 6GB (3 x 2GB) DDR3 1600 CL7 RAM
GIGABYTE GA-X58A-UD3R LGA 1366 Intel X58 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
$314 after a $30 rebate
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite...

XFX Radeon HD 5850 1GB w/Lifetime Warranty
CORSAIR CMPSU-850TX 850W ATX Power Supply (Powerful enough for two HD 5850s)
$321 after $35 in rebates
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite...

or

Gigabyte GTX 460 1GB
CORSAIR CMPSU-650TX 650W ATX Power Supply (High Quality, just enough power for two GTX 460s)
$255 after $30 in rebates
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite...

Antec 300 Case
Lite On 24X SATA DVD Burner Retail
$76
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite...

+Processor and HDD from Micro Center



for an i5-760:

MSI P55A-G55 LGA 1156 Intel P55 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard (Dual PCI-E x16 slots at 8x/8x)
$128
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...


4GB OCZ DDR3 1600 CL7
$82 after a $20 rebate
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

or

4GB G.Skill Eco DDR3 1600 CL7 1.35v Ram
$97
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...


XFX Radeon HD 5850 1GB w/Lifetime Warranty
CORSAIR CMPSU-850TX 850W ATX Power Supply (Powerful enough for two HD 5850s or GTX 470s)
$321 after $35 in rebates
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite...

or

Gigabyte GTX 460 1GB
CORSAIR CMPSU-650TX 650W ATX Power Supply (High Quality, just enough power for two GTX 460s)
$255 after $30 in rebates
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite...


Antec 300 Case
Lite On 24X SATA DVD Burner Retail
$76
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite...


+Processor and HDD from Micro Center



or with a higher end case

MSI P55A-G55 LGA 1156 Intel P55 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard (Dual PCI-E x16 slots at 8x/8x)
$128
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...


4GB OCZ DDR3 1600 CL7
$82 after a $20 rebate
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

or

4GB G.Skill Eco DDR3 1600 CL7 1.35v Ram
$97
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...


Antec Nine Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
XFX Black Edition 750W Power Supply (Very highly regarded, Excellent 80 Plus Silver Efficiency, Modular)
$201 after a $15 rebate
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite...


XFX Radeon HD 5850 1GB
$240 after a $15 rebate
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

or

Gigabyte GTX 460 1GB
$200 after a $20 rebate
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...


Lite On 24x SATA DVD Burner Retail
$20
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...


+Processor and HDD from Micro Center
a b B Homebuilt system
September 20, 2010 10:34:26 AM

sayurann said:
which gpu/psu/MB do u recommend? for 760 and for 930?

I put together some example builds.

The PSU you need is entirely dependent upon the graphics setup you choose.

Any single graphics card: 500W should be plenty.
Two HD5750s or HD5770s: at least 550W with two or more PCI-E connectors
Two GTX 460s or HD5830s: at least 650W with 4 or more PCI-E connectors
Two Radeon HD 5850s: at least 750W with 4 or more PCI-E connectors
Two Radeon GTX 470s: 850W with 4 PCI-E connectors

sayurann said:
what do you think of crossfire 5750 than a 460 or a 5850?
U got a lot of choices over there and I am confused... lol

Two HD 5750s in crossfire will be faster now, but you won't be able to upgrade later. I generally recommend getting one more powerful graphics card so that you can add a second one later when games are more graphically demanding and the current graphics cards have become outdated, cheaper.
September 20, 2010 10:57:28 AM

For programming and office work you want to run 2 threads on a single core. Only the i7-930/i7-870 has hyper-threading support. I would only suggest the i5 760 for gaming only. Even with gaming at some point they will get optimized for 8 threads making the i7's a better deal.

If your want an AMD GPU I suggest you wait for the 6770 or if Nvidia is your choice the 460 1G is the best of their offerings.

The Antec 300 isn't the best case anymore. The Antec Three Hundred Illusion is the better choice. I suggest this combo deal.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite...

Gigabyte has a very good mobo for the i7 930. This is a great combo deal.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite...

I would suggest getting the i7 930 with a H&S combo. With this H&S you have a chance of hitting 4GHz.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite...

These are the items you upgrade the most so I focus on cutting costs on these.

WD black 640 with promo code for $59.99.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
3GB gskills.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

DVD LG Burner.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

This build should get you under your 1k limit.

For a monitor I suggest Acer X233HZBD Black 23.6". Its on a deal till 9/22 for 154.99.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
a b B Homebuilt system
September 20, 2010 12:35:43 PM

Stop the insanity! Wow, the guy says "as cheap as possible," and way overkill GPUs are being recommended...
Okay, after reviewing some benchmarks, an i5/760 seems reasonable. Many of your tasks could be performed well on an i3, but SC2 in particular needs a fast (probably overclocked) CPU to get decent results, and a cheaper i3 (or AMD) wouldn't cut it here. It was a little harder to find benchmarks for racing games, but I did find a couple for GRiD and two others for DiRT 2.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/dirt-2-performance-...
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/4830-radeon-crossfi...
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/GPU/113
http://www.pcgameshardware.com/?menu=browser&article_id...

(I found a couple others, but they required a lot more extrapolation because of the parts used)

Given your current resolution, get one HD5770 now, but get a Crossfire motherboard. AFTER you upgrade your monitor, if the drop in performance is not acceptable, then add another HD5770; many things may not need even that upgrade, especially if you're willing to lower a setting or two, but the option will be there. In the meantime, your father will appreciate that you're not trying to milk him for all he's worth just so you can play games.

To allow for the eventual Crossfire, get a 650W-750W PSU. Select one with full range active PFC (no little voltage switch) and 80+ [bronze or higher] certification. With a great deal, you'll probably spend a minimum of $80 on it, and $110-$120 would not be unreasonable. Antec, Corsair, Seasonic, and Enermax are among the better brands; XFX has some decent models at that wattage, and a few of the OCZ (ModXtream, but probably not StealthXtream) are okay too. This is not the place to skimp, as the stability, long term health, and longevity of your rig all depend on a quality PSU.

a b B Homebuilt system
September 20, 2010 12:44:32 PM

Allow your living arrangements to influence your case choice. If you're in an apartment with your own room and lots of space, it may not matter, but if you're in a dorm, with roommates, find something quieter and possibly smaller. As a student, you're not going to risk your expensive and only system with mad overclocks, so you won't need howling coolers, and should not exclude a Micro-ATX system merely on the basis of limiting your overclock because of lesser cooling.
September 20, 2010 3:36:17 PM

The guy says "as cheap as possible" and also says "I want a PC that last long, 5 years at least". A 16GB maxed out 1156 mobo wouldn't even get near the memory standard of 5 years. The 24GB limit on the 1366 is the only mobo even remotely possible for filling this request. The i5 760 shouldn't even be considered. He will also make much better use of the 8 threads on either of the i7's over 5 years.

Suggesting a 5770 with the 6750 and 6770 coming soon is a bad ideal. The 5770 is sure to drop some $40 then the next gen launches.
a b B Homebuilt system
September 20, 2010 4:34:19 PM

Nonsense. A "mere" 2GB will handle MOST things today; 4GB often makes a difference in overall system performance, but isn't a requirement. I'd be surprised if 4GB is "insufficient" in five years, even if 8GB may have become the norm.
Threading benchmarks I've seen show notable improvements going from one core to two (duh...) and from two cores to three, but beyond that returns diminish rapidly. I wouldn't buy less than four and expect longevity, but again I doubt four will be insufficient in five years [with any additional requirements not handled by GPGPU].
I am not suggesting that the i7 isn't the better performer, or won't last longer. In fact, I started a thread quite some time ago in which I suggested that the i5 didn't seem to have a place. While I think any number of my points may still be relevant, changing prices AND the OP's "as cheap as possible" show where the i5 (on LGA1156) is a perfectly valid choice. I'm still running a Q9450, and I do not believe that lack of performance will be a significant justification if I upgrade in the next year or three. I probably will, and what I get will no doubt be faster, but that will just be because time marches on, not because I specifically need the boost.
As to his GPU choice, since the time frame is at least a month in advance, certainly it would make sense to re-evaluate at that time. As far as how much GPU he needs, a HD5770 (or equivalent) seems sufficient. If, next month, he can get a GTX460 or HD5830 for the same price, and a HD5770 is only $25 less, well then a different choice might make more sense, but not today.
September 20, 2010 5:55:10 PM

On the memory just knowing Moores law you would know it doubles ever 18 months. In 4.5years your 2GB now would need 16GB to be equal. The 3GB I suggest for him today would mean 24GB need in 4.5years. The OP's requirement for 5 years isn't an or requirement. He wants both and if CPU cores climb at the same rate as Moore's law the 4 thread limit on the i5 would be taxed far more than the 8 thread i7's.

Currently the OP wants a system for
Quote:
Office, browsing, some programming
but not heavy like matlab, some design programs for engineers) Currently I only play WC3

The OP has most likely a year till graduation with only 1 old game he plays. The i7's would be best for his Office, programming, matlab, and design programs for engineers that he currently need this build.

On the GPU I think your trying to say 460GTX today or wait till next month for the 5770 price drop. It really make no sense buying a GPU today you know is going to be replace by the next gen in a month. If you want a system to last a good long while you really have to learn at what rate tech increases and minimize most short falls in the design. Short falls being number of threads for the CPU, how much memory the motherboard will hold, and time till the next gen 6770 comes out. In a month if the 5770 is around $119 then it would be the best bang for the buck. Currently tho the 460GTX is the best bang for the buck.

If the OP want to save a bit more money I suggest dropping down to the 460GTX 768MB version. At the 460GTX 768MB price it kills the 5770.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite...
At only $10 more it beats the 5770 up and at times give the 5830 a hard time.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-460-gf1...
a b B Homebuilt system
September 20, 2010 6:30:49 PM

Moore's Law isn't about increasing requirements, it's about increasing density of transistors on a chip. There are many 5+ year old machines in use today with 1GB of RAM, definitely slow, but still able to run increasingly bloated office software.
And no, I'm not saying GTX460 today; I said HD5770, but if in a month when he buys, a GTX460 costs what a HD5770 does today, and the HD5770 is only $25 cheaper, it may be worth getting the stronger card. Maybe, he'll need to re-evaluate at that time.
Back to the CPU, the OP's current needs would be met by an i3. Only adding SC2 and possible other future applications raises that, and I don't think to the level of i7. In any case, with Sandy Bridge and Bulldozer coming out, and likely at least one or two more new product cycles in five years, buying today and expecting it to keep pace in five years is absurd. People with five-seven year old P4s would LOVE to have an Athlon II, even though technically the old CPU is still getting the job done. In five years, the same may be true of that i7, but I doubt it, especially with five years of GPGPU development time, that may make today's Athlon II still enough, as long as you have a GXT760 or HD9000 to go with it. Five years is way too far to see with any clarity in this business, especially with the economy likely to collapse as the producers are placed under heavier and heavier burdens by the parasites. Who knows what we'll be able to buy then, or what money we'll have to do it?
a b B Homebuilt system
September 20, 2010 8:29:01 PM

Onus said:
Five years is way too far to see with any clarity in this business, especially with the economy likely to collapse as the producers are placed under heavier and heavier burdens by the parasites. Who knows what we'll be able to buy then, or what money we'll have to do it?

:??: 

I agree that the applications we're talking about aren't very CPU intensive except for SC2. An i5-750 should be plenty powerful for years to come, especially if it's overclocked.

When you live next to a Micro Center, an i7-930 build doesn't cost you that much more, though. None of the Intel processor deals on Newegg (even the combos) come close to being as good of a value as the i7-930 for $200 at Micro Center.

An HD 5770 will be plenty powerful at 1280x1024, but it would already be overwhelmed by games 1080p. I guess it depend on how soon you plan on getting that new monitor, Sayurann.

I expect that both the HD 5770 and GTX 460 will drop by about $15-25 when the Radeon 6XXX cards are released in the next couple months. If you can, wait for that.
September 20, 2010 9:08:45 PM

waw, thank you all for the replies... a lot of different opinions...

first, I agree with jtt, I dont think I will need i7-930 HT but if I can get it for 200$ in microcenter, i dont see why I shouldnt get it... and, as a student, I dont want to risk my investment by overclocking it, I am very considering to get my parts at least have 3 years warranty too... XFX got a lifetime warranty, it is very tempting to get ATI over Nvidia, if I buy it later than a month from today, probably I will wait for the 6 series to came out so i can get the 5 series cheaper... do u guys have any idea when the 6 series will come out? I am also not a heavy gamer and asking for very high quality system... with 1000$ max, ofc I cant ask my system to run everything on high quality or highest resolution... I am willing to run my game at lower resolution rather than lower quality though if it really helps...

for the memory capacity, I am currently using 2gb memory and I dont see any needs to upgrade it to 4gb, but when I do gaming later, probably 4gb is the minimum.. as of the future, I believe 16 gb is much more than enough since I dont see myself doing heavy programming or photo editting...
and for the case, I prefer to have a very quiet case, with less or no fancy light if possible... ofc it has to get decent cooling ability..

edit:
I will upgrade my monitor max 3 months after I buy a new system, most likely i will buy dell's e-IPS monitor at around 250$... It is ridiculous to run a 800$ desktop on a 17" monitor... that's a complete waste of my investment...
for the 5 years thing, I am more to have a system that can still run in the next 5 years... more like reliability issue rather than technology issue... I want it to be able to run all the basic applications (new office, new flash maybe, or new designing program for engineers) in the next 5 years at least.. I will not ask my system to run a game that is launched 3 years from now and getting a high quality on 1k pc that i bought 3 years ago...

September 20, 2010 9:10:25 PM

If you have MC they often have the AMD hexacores and a mobo for ~230$ total.
a b B Homebuilt system
September 20, 2010 9:19:55 PM

If you can get an i7 for the price of an i5, that's a great deal. Just remember you'll need to buy triple channel RAM to go with it.
I would not worry about a HD5770 being inadequate; especially for non-FPS titles. If you played shooters, yeah it might be a little weak, but you said you don't, so I think it will likely turn out to be enough. If not, you'll always be able to add another one in Crossfire, or sell it and get a stronger single card.
Some of this may be moot, as you'll need to re-evaluate based on price and availability in a month or two when you're actually going to build this.
a b B Homebuilt system
September 20, 2010 10:03:28 PM

sayurann said:
waw, thank you all for the replies... a lot of different opinions...

first, I agree with jtt, I dont think I will need i7-930 HT but if I can get it for 200$ in microcenter, i dont see why I shouldnt get it... and, as a student, I dont want to risk my investment by overclocking it, I am very considering to get my parts at least have 3 years warranty too... XFX got a lifetime warranty, it is very tempting to get ATI over Nvidia, if I buy it later than a month from today, probably I will wait for the 6 series to came out so i can get the 5 series cheaper... do u guys have any idea when the 6 series will come out? I am also not a heavy gamer and asking for very high quality system... with 1000$ max, ofc I cant ask my system to run everything on high quality or highest resolution... I am willing to run my game at lower resolution rather than lower quality though if it really helps...

The 6XXX series cards will come out starting with the 67XX cards in the next month or two.

sayurann said:
for the memory capacity, I am currently using 2gb memory and I dont see any needs to upgrade it to 4gb, but when I do gaming later, probably 4gb is the minimum.. as of the future, I believe 16 gb is much more than enough since I dont see myself doing heavy programming or photo editting...

Gaming isn't very memory intensive, either. You will miss out on the performance benefit of triple channel memory that the i7-930 has if you install memory piecemeal.

and for the case, I prefer to have a very quiet case, with less or no fancy light if possible... ofc it has to get decent cooling ability..

sayurann said:
I will upgrade my monitor max 3 months after I buy a new system, most likely i will buy dell's e-IPS monitor at around 250$... It is ridiculous to run a 800$ desktop on a 17" monitor... that's a complete waste of my investment...
for the 5 years thing, I am more to have a system that can still run in the next 5 years... more like reliability issue rather than technology issue... I want it to be able to run all the basic applications (new office, new flash maybe, or new designing program for engineers) in the next 5 years at least.. I will not ask my system to run a game that is launched 3 years from now and getting a high quality on 1k pc that i bought 3 years ago...

Any on the new cards will play games and run your applications. If you want to save money, the HD5750 and HD5770 are unbeatable as entry level cards. You definitely won't be able to run games at high quality with only one of them and the latest games may not be playable at 1080p. If that's ok, go with it. Higher end cards will never be as good of a value; graphics card prices increase exponentially with performance.

You can also get XFX HD 5770s and 5830s with the lifetime warranty.

XFX Radeon HD 5770 1GB w/lifetime warranty
$135 after a $20 rebate
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

XFX Radeon HD 5830 1GB w/lifetime warranty
$170 after a $20 rebate
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Gaming performance with an HD 5830 at 1920x1200 with AA turned off is better than that of a GTX 460 1GB for $40 less.

http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/2010-gaming-graphics...
a b B Homebuilt system
September 20, 2010 11:08:11 PM

All well and good, until...
wielander said:
...If you want to save money, the HD5750 and HD5770 are unbeatable as entry level cards. You definitely won't be able to run games at high quality with only one of them and the latest games may not be playable at 1080p.

I call BS. Remember, he doesn't play shooters. I don't either, and my games do quite nicely with a HD5770 at 1920x1080; many of them can play at that res on a HD4850; only Dragon Age: Origins isn't maxed on the HD4850. The recent reviews of SC2 show it looking pretty darn good on Medium settings.
a b B Homebuilt system
September 20, 2010 11:28:51 PM

Onus said:
All well and good, until...

I call BS. Remember, he doesn't play shooters. I don't either, and my games do quite nicely with a HD5770 at 1920x1080; many of them can play at that res on a HD4850; only Dragon Age: Origins isn't maxed on the HD4850. The recent reviews of SC2 show it looking pretty darn good on Medium settings.

How is that contrary to what I'm saying; remember we're talking about over the next three years. SC2 isn't a graphically intensive game, but most DX11 games (FPS or not) will max out an HD5770 at 1920x1200.
a b B Homebuilt system
September 20, 2010 11:35:23 PM

Newegg is offering some ridiculous deals on the Antec Nine Hundred Two case. The build quality and cooling performance are very respectable. The case isn't very flashy, and you can probably clip the LEDs on the fans.
$65 after a $30 rebate
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

a b B Homebuilt system
September 21, 2010 12:20:25 AM

Shooters will make it cry, but racing games will likely remain playable. Anyway, my point is that with the OP's concern over saving money, a single HD5770 will suit his current resolution, and if it isn't enough for when he gets a 1920x1080 monitor, he can always add another one.
September 21, 2010 12:38:08 AM

Onus said:
Moore's Law isn't about increasing requirements, it's about increasing density of transistors on a chip. There are many 5+ year old machines in use today with 1GB of RAM, definitely slow, but still able to run increasingly bloated office software.
And no, I'm not saying GTX460 today; I said HD5770, but if in a month when he buys, a GTX460 costs what a HD5770 does today, and the HD5770 is only $25 cheaper, it may be worth getting the stronger card. Maybe, he'll need to re-evaluate at that time.
Back to the CPU, the OP's current needs would be met by an i3. Only adding SC2 and possible other future applications raises that, and I don't think to the level of i7. In any case, with Sandy Bridge and Bulldozer coming out, and likely at least one or two more new product cycles in five years, buying today and expecting it to keep pace in five years is absurd. People with five-seven year old P4s would LOVE to have an Athlon II, even though technically the old CPU is still getting the job done. In five years, the same may be true of that i7, but I doubt it, especially with five years of GPGPU development time, that may make today's Athlon II still enough, as long as you have a GXT760 or HD9000 to go with it. Five years is way too far to see with any clarity in this business, especially with the economy likely to collapse as the producers are placed under heavier and heavier burdens by the parasites. Who knows what we'll be able to buy then, or what money we'll have to do it?

The requirements and increasing density goes hand in hand. Why this is true is because programs have to push the tech limits so they will last. Crysis wasn't made to run well on systems the year it came out. Point is what tech limits are developers today shooting for? Most develops are shooting for tech limits about 1.5 years down the road. Developers do this to keep their software from being replace easy.

Now today the GTX460 768MB outperforms the HD5770 and only cost $10 more. The 5770 need to fall in price by about $40 to compete just check the benchmarks.

Quote:
for the 5 years thing, I am more to have a system that can still run in the next 5 years... more like reliability issue rather than technology issue... I want it to be able to run all the basic applications (new office, new flash maybe, or new designing program for engineers) in the next 5 years at least.. I will not ask my system to run a game that is launched 3 years from now and getting a high quality on 1k pc that i bought 3 years ago..

With the 1366 mobo with 24GB's in 5 years you would be lucky running the newest OS. Simple way to look at this is 5 years ago we had single core FX57 CPU and the motherboard was at the very best a 939 with a limit of 4GB's. Windows 7 recommends 4GB's today and that is the RAM limit of the old 939 motherboards. In 3 years you will need 8~12G to run windows 8 or 9. Microsoft really likes to push the tech limits with there OS.
a b B Homebuilt system
September 21, 2010 1:50:03 AM

elbert said:
Now today the GTX460 768MB outperforms the HD5770 and only cost $10 more. The 5770 need to fall in price by about $40 to compete just check the benchmarks.


If you factor in rebates you can get a quality HD 5770 for $125, but the cheapest GTX 460 768MB is $164.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

The HD 5770 may drop to around $105 at the lowest with the release of the 67XX cards; it can't drop below the price of the HD4870.

elbert said:
With the 1366 mobo with 24GB's in 5 years you would be lucky running the newest OS. Simple way to look at this is 5 years ago we had single core FX57 CPU and the motherboard was at the very best a 939 with a limit of 4GB's. Windows 7 recommends 4GB's today and that is the RAM limit of the old 939 motherboards. In 3 years you will need 8~12G to run windows 8 or 9. Microsoft really likes to push the tech limits with there OS.


This is off topic, but I disagree. Windows isn't updated every year. We get one big update every 5 years or so (Windows XP 2001, Windows Vista 2006). Windows 7 is really just Windows Vista SP3 (the Vista brand was poison so they killed it off), and it still won't be replaced for years.

Computers were memory starved for a long time. I remember running out of ram back when I had 128MB, 256MB, and 512MB; it didn't seem to have anything to do with the particular OS of the time. 4GB isn't necessary now for running Windows 7 or for general computing. My old laptop ran the Windows 7 Beta fine with 512MB (better than XP) as long as I didn't open up a dozen applications or a hundred browser tabs; the OS itself doesn't use very much ram.
September 21, 2010 11:06:04 AM

Quote:
If you factor in rebates you can get a quality HD 5770 for $125, but the cheapest GTX 460 768MB is $164.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6814102873
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6814127512

The HD 5770 may drop to around $105 at the lowest with the release of the 67XX cards; it can't drop below the price of the HD4870.


A drop to $105 without rebates is what the 5770 needs and without rebates this would be about the $40 I said. Most 5770 are around the $149 mark.
If you factor in combo deals the 460GTX 768MB is $149.99.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite...

If you factor in the combo and rebate the 460GTX 1GB is $179.99.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite...

Also each of these have $20 off SC2.
So counting this $129.99 for the 768MB and $159.99 for the 1GB as this game is directly 1 thing the OP talked about.

Don't get me wrong im no fan of nvidia. My son has the XFX5770 which it came with dirt2 free and it was purchased about 7 months ago when it was an amazing deal for $159. Its a good chance ill be suggesting the 6770 next month.

Quote:
This is off topic, but I disagree. Windows isn't updated every year. We get one big update every 5 years or so (Windows XP 2001, Windows Vista 2006). Windows 7 is really just Windows Vista SP3 (the Vista brand was poison so they killed it off), and it still won't be replaced for years.

Computers were memory starved for a long time. I remember running out of ram back when I had 128MB, 256MB, and 512MB; it didn't seem to have anything to do with the particular OS of the time. 4GB isn't necessary now for running Windows 7 or for general computing. My old laptop ran the Windows 7 Beta fine with 512MB (better than XP) as long as I didn't open up a dozen applications or a hundred browser tabs; the OS itself doesn't use very much ram.

I Have to disagree this is on topic as it relates the OP's requirement of his system lasts for 5 years. Xp at first would run on 98MB's and with a few services turned off about 75MB's. This is leaving out a bit as XP on SP2 required really 256MB's before services turned off. Your also skipping over 64bit XP. Our updates of OS comes more often than you think. By server pack 2 of windows 7 it may well require 4GB's and recommend 6~8GB's. Think your either mixing in the 32bit version or left out xp mode as the 64bit windows 7 requires 2GB's for the xp mode and recommends 4GB's. Windows 8 has been in the works for a while now so forget about 5 years. Windows 8 could be as early as the end of next year.
http://windows8news.com/2010/06/29/windows-8-release-da...
September 21, 2010 2:03:31 PM

thought about eyefinity or 3D surrounding setup?
September 21, 2010 6:22:10 PM

hey, I just come out with some technical question..
for SLI/xfire to work, does the gpu has to be from the same manufacturer/brand? or i can use mis with xfx as long as it has the same chipset?

yeah, eyefinity is a possibility if I have enough monitor, I only have 1 now, and going to buy another one... but I dont think 1k pc can do eyefinity in high quality... so, If my system cant, i wont be surprised...

I am going to go with a GPU around 200$, I dont want to buy a gpu that is more expensive than my gpu... maybe it sounds stupid, but that is my preference since I didnt do gaming that bad, i think it's a bad investment...
also, how is your gpu doing for these years, did they ever fail you? if it did, then i would really prefer to get XFX one... does xfx warranty cover overheat or only when it DOA or it freeze or whatever else than overheat?

for the RAM memory, how much the CAS affect the performance?
I am thinking of buying triple channel of 3gb, to save some money, probably get the best one if possible for less than 100$... the 6gb cost almost twice of the 3gb... then by the time I want to upgrade to 6gb or 12 gb, perhaps the price will be at the difference between the 3gb and 6gb now..

and yes, ofc I want my pc to be able to run the latest OS, but as you can see now,a lot of people are still using XP that is 9 years old? and its fine, so i think i should be fine if my pc runs win7 smoothly...
September 21, 2010 6:29:34 PM

I don't think same brand is needed for SLI/CF.
a b B Homebuilt system
September 21, 2010 7:49:45 PM

sayurann said:
hey, I just come out with some technical question..
for SLI/xfire to work, does the gpu has to be from the same manufacturer/brand? or i can use mis with xfx as long as it has the same chipset?

The GPU does not have to be from the same brand. If one of the cards is factory overclocked higher than the other, they will both default to the speed of the slower one.

sayurann said:
yeah, eyefinity is a possibility if I have enough monitor, I only have 1 now, and going to buy another one... but I dont think 1k pc can do eyefinity in high quality... so, If my system cant, i wont be surprised...

Yeah, I wouldn't bother with an eyefinity setup. Unless all three monitors are the same, it will look silly, and I wouldn't invest in another low resolution lcd.

sayurann said:
I am going to go with a GPU around 200$, I dont want to buy a gpu that is more expensive than my [CPU]... maybe it sounds stupid, but that is my preference since I didnt do gaming that bad, i think it's a bad investment...
also, how is your gpu doing for these years, did they ever fail you? if it did, then i would really prefer to get XFX one... does xfx warranty cover overheat or only when it DOA or it freeze or whatever else than overheat?

I know a few people that have had GPUs that failed. All of their GPUs failed for a reason, though (overclocked, reflashed, overheated). Graphics cards today seem better designed (much better cooling solutions) and more stable than they were a few years back, though.

The XFX warranty is going to cover basically any type of failure. If it fails because it overheated (and it wasn't overclocked), that would be covered.

sayurann said:
for the RAM memory, how much the CAS affect the performance?
I am thinking of buying triple channel of 3gb, to save some money, probably get the best one if possible for less than 100$... the 6gb cost almost twice of the 3gb... then by the time I want to upgrade to 6gb or 12 gb, perhaps the price will be at the difference between the 3gb and 6gb now..

You should be fine for now with 3GB for office, browsing, and gaming apps.

The CAS latency that your memory runs at is just as important for its performance as its frequency. Higher performance ram doesn't make as much of a difference as it used to, though. This article covers the subject better than I can:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2792/10

sayurann said:
and yes, ofc I want my pc to be able to run the latest OS, but as you can see now,a lot of people are still using XP that is 9 years old? and its fine, so i think i should be fine if my pc runs win7 smoothly...

It will run Windows 7 smoothly. It should run Windows 8 (whatever it's called) smoothly. It will take at least two or three years for i7-930 level performance to trickle down to the mainstream market.
September 21, 2010 9:48:11 PM

sayurann said:

I am going to go with a GPU around 200$, I dont want to buy a gpu that is more expensive than my gpu... maybe it sounds stupid, but that is my preference since I didnt do gaming that bad, i think it's a bad investment...
also, how is your gpu doing for these years, did they ever fail you? if it did, then i would really prefer to get XFX one... does xfx warranty cover overheat or only when it DOA or it freeze or whatever else than overheat?


Wielander did an excellent job on your questions so ill just add my experiance with my sons XFX.

My sons GPU is the XFX HD-577A-ZNFC Radeon HD 5770 and they are an amazing GPU. He didn't OC and it has run flawlessly for 7 months. He plays mostly COD4, WOW, and not sure what else. His PSU is an Antec 430 Watt which handles one GPU very well.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
September 22, 2010 7:34:13 AM

ohh, thanks for the info...
I got other question... for the gigabyte MB, can it fit those 2 ati 5830 cards? i read on the feedback that the card is very long and big... also, some mobo cannot fit two cards even though they can technically because the top card will be over heated by the bottom card? something like that, cmiiw...

also, is there any other brand with lifetime warranty other than evga and xfx? i see sparkle offer a lifetime warranty too... personally i prefer nvidia more than ATi since i never have an ATi before, haha.. but there is always a first time for everything... =)

a b B Homebuilt system
September 23, 2010 1:21:08 AM

sayurann said:
ohh, thanks for the info...
I got other question... for the gigabyte MB, can it fit those 2 ati 5830 cards? i read on the feedback that the card is very long and big... also, some mobo cannot fit two cards even though they can technically because the top card will be over heated by the bottom card? something like that, cmiiw...

also, is there any other brand with lifetime warranty other than evga and xfx? i see sparkle offer a lifetime warranty too... personally i prefer nvidia more than ATi since i never have an ATi before, haha.. but there is always a first time for everything... =)

It probably wouldn't be a good idea at least with two cards using the reference cooling design. There isn't an extra space between the two PCI-E x16 slots on the UD3R so the second graphics card would sit right on top of the first. Gigabyte recommends that you use the two PCI-E x16 slots for a dual graphics card setup even though the board has four PCI-E slots, but you might be able to use the two slots running at 8x so that the cards would be farther apart.

I don't know of any other brands that offer a lifetime warranty. :( 
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