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New Build - What Ram To Select?

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September 20, 2010 7:44:48 PM

Hi making my first computer and I have finally decided on the what motherboard and cpu I want:


CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition
http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=4...

MOTHERBOARD: Asus Crosshair IV Formula Socket AM3
http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=2...



Hard part comes now for me what RAM do I choose? I talked with a computer salesman at my local store and they recommended Corsair is best choice for RAM. But is RAM just RAM?

Well anyways I looked at the approved list in the motherboard manual for memory. I found this one works in the board:

Corsair XMS3 Dominator 6GB (3x2GB) DDR3 1866MHz CL9 DIMM w/DHX+ and Fan, Optimized for Core i7 Extreme Edition (TR3X6G1866C9DF)

http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=2...


My main concern is this ram good and is there something better I can get for cheaper?

I plan to primarily use this computer for high end gaming and casual web browsing.

Can anyone help me as I really really not sure at this point what ram to select.


I also found these other memory modules which are supported as well for the board that i can buy. If its not too much trouble can someone take a look at them and tell me if there is a better choice in the list i can purchase?

CORSAIR

http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=2...

http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=2...

GSKILL

http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=2...

http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=2...

http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=2...

http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=2...

http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=2...

http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=2...


KINGSTON

http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=2...

http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=2...

http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=2...

http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=2...


MUSKIN

http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=2...

OCZ

http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=2...

http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=2...

PATRIOT

http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=2...

http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=2...

More about : build ram select

September 20, 2010 8:04:56 PM

tripple channel dont work with amd.. u need doble channel...

get g.skill ripjaws 1600mhz cl7 4gb ddr3

procesor the 955 its the same

and motherboard u dont need that.... its very overkill and looks like u will not be overcloking and use all teh features of that motherboard...

i recomend the asus m4a89gtd pro/usb3

and if ur gaming the most important things is the gpu... i recomend ati 5870 or cheaper 5850.. but with that last one there will be some games that u will cant play
September 20, 2010 9:05:27 PM

So with the AMD Phenom 965 I have selected and the motherboard I can't overclock the processor?????

Can you explain to me why you have said that the the corsair ram I have selected won't for me? I just ask this because the motherboard I have selected states in the manual this memory module is supported.


I'm pretty keen on getting this crosshair board just because of the reviews I read about it and the features that come on the board.

Just give some info as well this is what I want the system to do:




APPROXIMATE PURCHASE DATE: Wish to build and assemble within 1 month after proper research has been done & recommendations have been given.

BUDGET RANGE: $1000 to $1500 - Would like to keep this in the $1000 dollar range with taxes if possible but can stretch to $1500 or even a

bit more ($1700 to $2000) if it makes sense to spend more on a part or component. Example why purchase a AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition

(125W) Quad Core Socket AM3, 3.2GHz, 8Mb Cache, 1800MHz HT, 45nm for $159.99 when you can get a AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition (125W)

Quad Core Socket AM3, 3.4GHz, 8Mb Cache, 1800MHz HT, 45nm for $179.99 and get an extra 200Mhz of processing speed.



SYSTEM USAGE FROM MOST TO LEAST IMPORTANT:

This is what I would like to do on this system

Single Bootable System (Windows XP Professional or Windows XP Home Edition or Windows 7 Professional Edition)
Duel Bootable System (Windows 98 & Windows XP Professional) - Not even sure if this is possible on a 64 bit chip
Duel Bootable System (Linux Fedora & Windows XP Professional)
Duel Bootable System (Linux Fedora & Windows 7) - Considering buying Windows 7 at this time as Market seems to be changing
Internet Explorer Browsing
High End Graphic PC Gaming
Microsoft Word, Powerpoint, Access, Excel
Outlook Express Email
Regular Email (Example: google, yahoo, etc)
Downloading/Uploading Streaming Video

Music Player
Computer Programming (Visual Basic, C++, Java, Perl, HTML/XHTML)
Viewing youtube videos
Flash player capable
MSN/AOL Messenger
Ventrilo
Games to be played on System: Counterstrike 1.5, Counterstrike Source, Bad Company 2, Any high graphic end first person shooter game that
comes out later in future. Would like to make certain that this system will be able to play any future games.
Antivirus/Firewall Capable (Use to use Nortons, It was a bottle neck on the system I have. Had to remove it)
Server Capabities (Later on would like to use this a server for home network or set up as a counterstrike server room for friends for online

play)

PARTS NOT REQUIRED: Monitor, keyboard, mouse, speaker, Operating System (Win 98, XP, Fedora)


PARTS REQUIRED:

CPU
Motheboard
Graphics Card
Sound Card (Not sure if i need one)
Memory
IDE Hard Drive
Power Supply
Computer Case & Fans
Heat Sink
DVD/CD Burner
Floppy Disk (If possible - Yes I know its not used anymore but would hope for it)
Cables to connect all parts together? I hear usually nowadays this all comes with the parts you buy.


PREFERRED WEBSITE(S) FOR PARTS: www.canadacomputers.com - Or any other website that has good prices to order from for Canadian dollar.

COUNTRY OF ORIGIN: Canada, Ontario

PARTS PREFERENCES: AMD

OVERCLOCKING: Yes

SLI OR CROSSFIRE: Yes if it would help save money or improve performance.

MONITOR RESOLUTION: Using a SyncMaster 931w with 2000:1 Dynamic contrast. Using windows XP Pro with the following settings at 1152 x 864

ADDITIONAL COMMENTS:

Computer needs to be able to do multi-tasking with multiple windows open without freezing or clogging.
Ablility to ALT TAB out quickly launch or access programs
Ability to quickly use Fast User Switching Mode on Windows XP
Computer Fans Need to be quiet (Friend has a computer and sounds like a vacuum cleaner/airplane combo when turned on - don't need this)
Low to moderate power consumption if possible
Something that will suit my needs and will continue on in future for quite sometime.
Any addition items that would prove to be useful please list them that should be considering when making a computer.
Ability to easily upgrade or replace parts as newer components hit the marketplace.
Related resources
September 21, 2010 3:54:33 AM

chrisbek said:
So with the AMD Phenom 965 I have selected and the motherboard I can't overclock the processor?????

Yes, you can. No worries. The Phenom II 955 is a better value than the 965 because they're exactly the same except for their stock frequency; they both have unlocked multipliers for overclocking so all you have to do is increment the multiplier on a 955 to turn it into a 965.

chrisbek said:
Can you explain to me why you have said that the the corsair ram I have selected won't for me? I just ask this because the motherboard I have selected states in the manual this memory module is supported.

The memory you linked is triple channel 3x2GB; triple channel kits are meant for Intel LGA1366 builds. The AMD processors use dual channel memory. That kit should work, but it doesn't make sense. You want a 2x2GB kit so that your memory is in a matched pair; it will perform better that way. 4GB of ram should be plenty for gaming and your other applications.
September 21, 2010 9:46:55 AM

While not entirely true, the 955 does offer a slightly higher perf/$. The 965 is binned higher and therefore a slightly better piece of silicon, but that's not a big deal because the hexacores are significantly nicer if you're going to spend the money.
September 21, 2010 5:58:25 PM

Ok thanks for all the help everyone. I understand that if I am going to use the AMD 965 processor that I need to have a dual channel memory and that triple channel is intended for an intel CPU. So in order to get the best out of the processor I will stick with dual channel


Now I did a bit more research and found the following:

CORSAIR

http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=2... - Triple Channel - Can't use even tho documentation says I can

GSKILL

http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=2... - 7-8-7-24 DUAL CHANNEL

http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=2... - 9-9-9-24 DUAL CHANNEL

http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=2... - 9-9-9-24 (TRIPPLE CHANNEL - CAN'T USE THO MOBO SAY YOU CAN)

http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=2... - 8-8-8-24 DUAL CHANNEL

http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=2... - data unavailable DUAL CHANNEL


KINGSTON

http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=2... - data unavailable DUAL CHANNEL

http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=2... - data unavailable DUAL CHANNEL

http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=2... - Triple Channel
http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=2... - data unavailable - Tripple Channel Ram???


MUSKIN

http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=2... - Checked MOBO Documentation again and this RAM is not supported

OCZ

http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=2... - (Triple Channel - Can't use tho mobo supports it) - 8-8-8


PATRIOT

http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=2... - Triple Channel 9-9-9-24

http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=2... - 7-7-7-20


Now my main question is from this list is:

1) Which Qualified Vendor Approved RAM Would you Choose
2) Can you use non-qualified vendor ram?
3) If you can which RAM would you suggest?
4) Does anyone have this mobo? What are you using for ram?
September 21, 2010 8:33:15 PM

You may want to wait, look for the Phenom II X4 970. It was just released today. It is manufactured on a different process than the 955 and 965 and appears to overclock better (up to ~4-4.1 GHz instead of ~3.9-4 for the 955 or 965).

chrisbek said:
Now my main question is from this list is:

1) Which Qualified Vendor Approved RAM Would you Choose

Out of those choices I would go with the G.Skill Eco Ram. It has some of the lowest latencies of those you listed. It's rated at a lower voltage (1.35v) than the other memory kits. While the voltage doesn't make as much of a difference for an AMD build, it is still a sign of higher quality ram. G.Skill also makes some of the most reliable, most recommended ram.

http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=2... - 7-8-7-24 DUAL CHANNEL

chrisbek said:
2) Can you use non-qualified vendor ram?

Yes, you absolutely can, but the kits that are most often recommended are already among those you listed.

There are some really good deals on Mushkin DDR3 1600 CL7 memory at Canada Computers. Mushkin is also one of the highest quality brands. I think it is a better deal at $80 (after a rebate) or $85.

http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=2...
http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=2...
September 21, 2010 8:49:31 PM

It's definitely not on a different process, it's still a Deneb core built on the same process.
September 21, 2010 9:27:49 PM

sp12 said:
It's definitely not on a different process, it's still a Deneb core built on the same process.

They improved the manufacturing process.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/phenom-ii-x6-1075t-...

"Our experience with the Phenom II X4 970 is slightly different. Our first sample was able to hit 3.9 GHz through multiplier-based overclocking, which is about what we expect to achieve with a Phenom II X4 965. However, we also have a Phenom II X4 970 on hand that benefits from an AMD process improvement.

The newer revision can be identified with the letters “AACDC” on the lid, as opposed to the previous sample that read “AACAC.” AMD's representative assures us that the newer revision is the only one that will make it to retail channels."
September 21, 2010 9:39:30 PM

But that's still a not a different process at all, it's still a 45nm Deneb made without high-K/SS like the Thubans. It's not even differentiated by a stepping revision, and the change from the C2 to C3 steppings (which was large enough to deserve a namechange) was typically less than 100mhz different.

I'll quote: Both CPUs are revision RB-C3 and Stepping 3
September 21, 2010 9:53:56 PM

sp12 said:
But that's still a not a different process at all, it's still a 45nm Deneb made without high-K/SS like the Thubans. It's not even differentiated by a stepping revision, and the change from the C2 to C3 steppings (which was large enough to deserve a namechange) was typically less than 100mhz different.

I'll quote: Both CPUs are revision RB-C3 and Stepping 3


The process has been improved; it is different. You can argue semantics if you want, but who cares.

ChrisBek wants the best processor he can get. AMD is arguing and there has been empirical evidence that the Phenom II X4 970 overclocks better than the 965 and 955 because of an improvement in the manufacturing process.
September 21, 2010 10:04:11 PM

I disagree on empirical, my friend's 955 hits 4.3 at 1.475 volts. 3 processors do not a valuable dataset make.

And no, process is very strictly the physical means used to produce the processor (manufacturing node, metals, lithography). If you're going to spend the cash on the 970 with hopes of overclocking (emphasis on overclocking) get the 95 watt 1055t for the same price. http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/ite...

The process improvements (as well as a full 2 steppings/30 watt lower heat output) on that part are significantly more impressive than the sub-stepping changes made for the 970.
September 21, 2010 10:37:05 PM

sp12 said:
And no, process is very strictly the physical means used to produce the processor (manufacturing node, metals, lithography).

Tell this to AMD and Tom's Hardware I guess :p ; they say that there has been some form of improvement in the means used to produce the processor. How do you know that they are wrong?

sp12 said:
I disagree on empirical, my friend's 955 hits 4.3 at 1.475 volts. 3 processors do not a valuable dataset make.

sp12 said:
If you're going to spend the cash on the 970 with hopes of overclocking (emphasis on overclocking) get the 95 watt 1055t for the same price. http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/ite...

The process improvements (as well as a full 2 steppings/30 watt lower heat output) on that part are significantly more impressive than the sub-stepping changes made for the 970.

I completely agree. For the same reason I think it's a little silly to spend more on the 965 than the 955.
September 23, 2010 5:44:55 PM

I thank everyone for their help very much

I just have a few questions about the RAM

I am reading the APPROVED QUALIFIED VENDOR LIST FOR RAM FOR THIS ASUS BOARD

In the manual it has the following headings

1) Vendor Part No
2) Size
3) Voltage
4) Timing Lable (BIOS)
5) DIM SOCKET SUPPORT: DIMM 1, DIMM2, DIMM4


I understand what the PART NO is
What the size means


But what does Voltage, Timing Lable and DIM SOCKET SUPPORT MEAN?


What ram do you choose based on these things?

I hear that timing should low. The lower the better?

Some of the rams don't have timings listed in the Approved list. Is this a bad thing?
Is Higher Voltage better or lower voltage? I would like to overclock the ram maybe somepoint so do you need higher voltage ram?


Also some of the timings just have 1 numerical value. What does this mean?

Also would like to ask what is the best ram from this list to choose?


APPROVED VENDOR RAM

GSKILL

http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=2... - F3-12800CL7D-4GBECO - 7-8-7-24 - VOLTAGE UNKNOWN -

DIMM1, DIMM2, DIMM3

http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=2... - F3-12800CL8D-4GBRM - 8-8-8-24 - VOLTAGE 1.6 - DIMM1,

DIMM2, DIMM3

http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=2... - F3-12800CL7D-4GBRH - 7-7-7-24 - VOLTAGE 1.65 - DIMM1,

DIMM2, DIMM3

http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=2... - F3-12800CL9D-4GBECO - 9-9-9-24 - VOLTAGE 1.35 - DIMM1,

DIMM2, DIMM3

http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=2... - F3-12800CL9D-4GBRL - UNKNOWN LATENCY - 1.6 - DIMM1,

DIMM2




PATRIOT

http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=2... - PVS34G1600LLK - 7-7-7-20 - VOLTAGE 1.9 - DIMM1, DIMM2



OCZ
http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=2... - OCZ3P1600LV4GK - 7-7-7 - VOLTAGE 1.65 - DIMM1



KINGSTON

http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=2... - KHX1600C9D3K2/4G - UNKNOWN - VOLTAGE 1.7~1.9 - DIMMS

UNKNOWN

http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=2... - KHX1600C8D3K2/4GX - 8 - VOLTAGE 1.65 - DIMM1, DIMM2,

DIMM4




CORSAIR

http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=2... - 8 - VOLTAGE 1.65 - DIMM 1, DIMM2, DIMM4

http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=2... - CMX8GX3M4A1600C9 - 9-9-9-24 - VOLTAGE 1.65 DIMM1, DIMM2

http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=2... - CMX4GX3M2A1600C9 - 9-9-9-24 - VOLTAGE 1.65 DIMM1,

DIMM2, DIMM3
September 24, 2010 3:08:22 AM

the third g.skill...
September 24, 2010 6:40:49 AM

All of these memory kits are rated for a certain frequency, voltage, and CAS latency; your retailer just didn't bother to look them up.

Lower latency ram is higher performance. The latency of a ram kit is just as important for performance as the frequency it is run at. You can run any set of ram at any speed and latency combination that it is capable of. Higher performance ram should run at lower latencies then lower performance ram at any frequency they are both capable of bearing. For example DDR3 1600 CL7 can often be run at and performs similarly to ram specified as DDR3 2000 CL9 or DDR3 1333 CL5/6.

You want lower voltage ram because it gives you more headroom. You overclock ram (increase the frequency it operates at) by decreasing the latencies (as necessary) and increasing the voltage (as necessary). If the ram is specified to run at a lower voltage that means that you can safely use a higher voltage increase (from the specifications). For example, if you run the G.Skill Eco ram which is rated for 1.35v at 1.65v, like some of the other sets, you should be able to overclock its frequency higher without changing the latencies.

The first G.Skill set is very good ram. It's actually 1.35v. The third set might be better for overclocking, but there isn't really any other ram that can match the specs of G.Skill Eco, low latency and super low voltage.

!