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Considering S2 Pro

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Anonymous
January 5, 2005 2:00:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Someone is selling an S2 Pro body for $750. I could probably get $600 for my
EOS300D (Digital Rebel) & 18-55 lens if I sold it--and I am particularly
considering this because my Rebel required a $130 repair to it for secondary
mirror issues--plus I've always been a Nikon fan, and of course the S2 Pro
is based largely on Nikon technology & even uses its lens mount.

On top of that, I used to be a Nikon N80 35mm SLR shooter, and naturally I'd
feel right at home with the Fuji S2. I have very little glass on either the
Canon or Nikon side.

The main thing that may cause me to NOT do this would likely be RAW usage; I
used RAW on the DR a lot, and it hardly slowed it down, at least in burst
mode; it didn't tie up the camera much, I could take the next RAW photo
within 1 1/2 seconds even if I had filled up the buffer. Apparently with the
Fuji this would extend to 8 seconds, although you could take 7 in the buffer
as opposed to just 4 with the Canon.

I don't need sports-photography type of speed, I just want to not be tied up
for long periods if I fire up, say, 2-3 RAW photos consecutively; I'd like
to be able to take another one a second or two later. Would this be possible
with the S2 Pro (again, in this case I would NOT have filled up the buffer
with 7 images, only 2-3).

Then also of course I suppose I'd have to have Fuji's software for handling
the RAW files, too--Nikon's wouldn't work? (I already have a Nikon CP5700
and it shoots RAW, and I've got software for all that.)

The other disadvantage would be its dual battery system--which would only
matter if you use the pop-up flash apparently, but I imagine I would quite a
lot. Has no rechargeable alternative to the CR123As still not been
developed?

Also--do any of you use the 12 MP mode, and what advantages does it offer?
(Apparently it's not a "true" 12MP like the new S3 uses, but would be a lot
like 9MP; that still would be cool, I'd guess--at least in "non-burst"
modes.)

I really am tempted overall to do this, just need some S2 Pro users out
there who can comment on their usage of the camera.

PS--the S3 Pro is not an option, I'm just a hobbyist & not a professional, I
could even begin to justify a camera like that, as great a camera as I have
no doubt the S3 is.

LRH

More about : pro

Anonymous
January 5, 2005 5:08:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Larry R Harrison Jr" <noone@noone.com> writes:

> Someone is selling an S2 Pro body for $750. I could probably get $600 for my
> EOS300D (Digital Rebel) & 18-55 lens if I sold it--and I am particularly
> considering this because my Rebel required a $130 repair to it for secondary
> mirror issues--plus I've always been a Nikon fan, and of course the S2 Pro
> is based largely on Nikon technology & even uses its lens mount.
>
> On top of that, I used to be a Nikon N80 35mm SLR shooter, and naturally I'd
> feel right at home with the Fuji S2. I have very little glass on either the
> Canon or Nikon side.

I've had an S2 for just over 2 years now, and I've been very VERY
happy with it (it's the only digital SLR I've owned; I've played with
Nikon D1 and Canon D30, D60, and 10D fairly briefly that belong to
friends). I'm not following the used marked carefully, but that
sounds to me like a very good price.

> The main thing that may cause me to NOT do this would likely be RAW
> usage; I used RAW on the DR a lot, and it hardly slowed it down, at
> least in burst mode; it didn't tie up the camera much, I could take
> the next RAW photo within 1 1/2 seconds even if I had filled up the
> buffer. Apparently with the Fuji this would extend to 8 seconds,
> although you could take 7 in the buffer as opposed to just 4 with
> the Canon.

It takes a long time to write a RAW image to the card (they're 12MB
images, and the card writing is fairly slow). But having writes in
progress does not interfere with taking additional pictures -- unless
you run out of buffer space. The S2 will shoot a sequence of 7 RAW
images exactly as fast as it shoots a sequence of 7 fine jpeg images.
However, it takes much longer to write each one to the card. (In
fact, it will shoot a sequence of *8* jpeg images, because while the
buffer is only 7 shots, during the time it shoots the last 6 it's able
to write one to the card, freeing up one more slot in the buffer;
whereas the RAW files, being 6 times as big, take 6 times as long to
write to the card.)

So for shooting, RAW isn't TOO much of an issue, unless you're
exceeding the card write speed consistently.

There's another problem area, though -- you can't *review* images
while it's writing to the card. If you shoot a quick sequence of RAW
images, you have to wait for them to be written to the card before you
can view them on the LCD, or view anything else on the LCD. This has
sometimes been an annoyance for me.

> I don't need sports-photography type of speed, I just want to not be
> tied up for long periods if I fire up, say, 2-3 RAW photos
> consecutively; I'd like to be able to take another one a second or
> two later. Would this be possible with the S2 Pro (again, in this
> case I would NOT have filled up the buffer with 7 images, only 2-3).

Yes, the S2 Pro will do that perfectly happily. (I just hauled mine
out and tried it, to be *really* sure.) So long as there is space in
the buffer, it will let you take the picture.

> Then also of course I suppose I'd have to have Fuji's software for
> handling the RAW files, too--Nikon's wouldn't work? (I already have
> a Nikon CP5700 and it shoots RAW, and I've got software for all
> that.)

If you have Photoshop CS, the Fuji RAW format is handled by their RAW
open plugin. If you buy a normal US S2 package (I know you're buying
used, so who knows what you'll get!), the Fuji RAW converter EX (the
good one) is supposed to be included in the package. So it's worth
checking with the seller, you may be getting the Fuji converter from
him already.

> The other disadvantage would be its dual battery system--which would
> only matter if you use the pop-up flash apparently, but I imagine I
> would quite a lot. Has no rechargeable alternative to the CR123As
> still not been developed?

I keep hearing rumors, but I haven't followed them up too
aggressively, and confirmation hasn't just fallen into my lap.

The camera will run *without* CR123As in it. I use it that way most
of the time. Using it that way disables the pop-up flash (which I've
never cared for anyway), and somewhat reduces the AA battery life.

Also, when the CR123As are exhausted in use, the camera locks up. Not
fatally; but you need to physically *remove* the dead CR123As and then
turn the camera back on. The camera runs fine with *live* CR123As,
and it runs fine with *no* CR123As, but it absolutely refused to run
with *dead* CR123As. I think you could fairly describe this is a bit
weird!

If you need the pop-up (and I admit that I'm probably under-using its
potential as fill flash, in particular), then you need live CR123As in
there. I've also seen places where you could get them for less than
$3 each in bulk (and they have a long storage life), but I haven't
taken advantage of that myself and don't remember exactly where now.

At least if your CR123As die on you and you don't have replacements,
you *can* keep shooting without the built-in flash. (I carry an
SB-80dx in the bag pretty much all the time, and tend to put that on
if I want flash).

> Also--do any of you use the 12 MP mode, and what advantages does it
> offer? (Apparently it's not a "true" 12MP like the new S3 uses, but
> would be a lot like 9MP; that still would be cool, I'd guess--at
> least in "non-burst" modes.)

No, I don't. I haven't tested really carefully; but reading articles
and testing a *little* my conclusion is that nearly all the gain in
apparent resolution is that it captures horizontal and vertical lines
better than a square grid, and diagonal lines less well. And
resolution charts use almost exclusively horizontal and vertical
lines.

Remember, in RAW mode the resolution is chosen later, all the RAW
files are the same size. You pick what size to convert it to in the
conversion tool. So this means they all take the same amount of time
to write, too.

> I really am tempted overall to do this, just need some S2 Pro users
> out there who can comment on their usage of the camera.

I'm very happy with mine. It'll do what you say you need with RAW
shooting bursts (but you'll have to wait a while to review the
pictures after that). The noise at high ISOs is not bad at all -- I
mean, it's bad, but it's far better than film at those speeds. And
it's much better under tungsten light than high-speed film is. (I
spend a LOT of time shooting under dim tungsten lights). (I seem to
shoot mostly under low light conditions, or with flash, on-camera or
studio; not nearly so much outside natural light.)

And I've got a *really gorgeous* 16x24 inch print from a shot I took
with the S2 under studio lighting. 6x7 film would do better, but my
experiences with 35mm film enlarged that big are uniformly kinda grim.

> PS--the S3 Pro is not an option, I'm just a hobbyist & not a
> professional, I could even begin to justify a camera like that, as
> great a camera as I have no doubt the S3 is.

Yeah, me too. I can't possibly consider upgrading the S2 any time
soon; it was rather an extravagance for me when I bought it, 2 years
ago. Although I must say that the sum of the money I've earned with
it (I do a certain amount of semi-pro work) plus the film and
processing costs I've avoided have far more than paid for the camera
body already. Given my financial situation during some of that time,
I'd have had to take a lot fewer pictures if I were paying for film
and processing.

Nearly all the pictures in the last two years in my "photo" and
"snapshot" web sites below were shot with the S2. The more recent
ones still have the EXIF data intact and can display it when viewed
over the web, even. If you want to poke at a bunch of examples of S2
photos. (URLs in my .sig).
--
David Dyer-Bennet, <mailto:D d-b@dd-b.net>, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/&gt;
RKBA: <http://noguns-nomoney.com/&gt; <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/&gt;
Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/&gt; <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/&gt;
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/&gt;
Anonymous
January 5, 2005 8:39:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Larry R Harrison Jr wrote:
> Someone is selling an S2 Pro body for $750. I could probably get $600 for my
> EOS300D (Digital Rebel) & 18-55 lens if I sold it--and I am particularly
> considering this because my Rebel required a $130 repair to it for secondary
> mirror issues--plus I've always been a Nikon fan, and of course the S2 Pro
> is based largely on Nikon technology & even uses its lens mount.
>
> On top of that, I used to be a Nikon N80 35mm SLR shooter, and naturally I'd
> feel right at home with the Fuji S2. I have very little glass on either the
> Canon or Nikon side.
>
> The main thing that may cause me to NOT do this would likely be RAW usage; I
> used RAW on the DR a lot, and it hardly slowed it down, at least in burst
> mode; it didn't tie up the camera much, I could take the next RAW photo
> within 1 1/2 seconds even if I had filled up the buffer. Apparently with the
> Fuji this would extend to 8 seconds, although you could take 7 in the buffer
> as opposed to just 4 with the Canon.
>
> I don't need sports-photography type of speed, I just want to not be tied up
> for long periods if I fire up, say, 2-3 RAW photos consecutively; I'd like
> to be able to take another one a second or two later. Would this be possible
> with the S2 Pro (again, in this case I would NOT have filled up the buffer
> with 7 images, only 2-3).
>
> Then also of course I suppose I'd have to have Fuji's software for handling
> the RAW files, too--Nikon's wouldn't work? (I already have a Nikon CP5700
> and it shoots RAW, and I've got software for all that.)
>
> The other disadvantage would be its dual battery system--which would only
> matter if you use the pop-up flash apparently, but I imagine I would quite a
> lot. Has no rechargeable alternative to the CR123As still not been
> developed?
>
> Also--do any of you use the 12 MP mode, and what advantages does it offer?
> (Apparently it's not a "true" 12MP like the new S3 uses, but would be a lot
> like 9MP; that still would be cool, I'd guess--at least in "non-burst"
> modes.)
>
> I really am tempted overall to do this, just need some S2 Pro users out
> there who can comment on their usage of the camera.
>
> PS--the S3 Pro is not an option, I'm just a hobbyist & not a professional, I
> could even begin to justify a camera like that, as great a camera as I have
> no doubt the S3 is.
>
> LRH
>
>
If you buy a S2 Pro check the serial number. They had a bad batch of
CCDs about a year and a half ago that were failing after 12 to 18 months
of service. They are aware of the problem and were fixing them at no
charge up to 6 months out of warranty. Mine failed at 16 months and was
repaired in November at no cost to me. The serial numbers that seemed to
have the problem started with A31 and A32. Mine was an A32.
Related resources
Anonymous
January 6, 2005 3:36:10 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Don B" <buroker@charter.net> wrote in message
news:41DC7AB1.9080908@charter.net...
>
>
> Larry R Harrison Jr wrote:
>> Someone is selling an S2 Pro body for $750. I could probably get $600 for
>> my EOS300D (Digital Rebel) & 18-55 lens if I sold it--and I am
>> particularly considering this because my Rebel required a $130 repair to
>> it for secondary mirror issues--plus I've always been a Nikon fan, and of
>> course the S2 Pro is based largely on Nikon technology & even uses its
>> lens mount.
>>
>> On top of that, I used to be a Nikon N80 35mm SLR shooter, and naturally
>> I'd feel right at home with the Fuji S2. I have very little glass on
>> either the Canon or Nikon side.
>>
>> The main thing that may cause me to NOT do this would likely be RAW
>> usage; I used RAW on the DR a lot, and it hardly slowed it down, at least
>> in burst mode; it didn't tie up the camera much, I could take the next
>> RAW photo within 1 1/2 seconds even if I had filled up the buffer.
>> Apparently with the Fuji this would extend to 8 seconds, although you
>> could take 7 in the buffer as opposed to just 4 with the Canon.
>>
>> I don't need sports-photography type of speed, I just want to not be tied
>> up for long periods if I fire up, say, 2-3 RAW photos consecutively; I'd
>> like to be able to take another one a second or two later. Would this be
>> possible with the S2 Pro (again, in this case I would NOT have filled up
>> the buffer with 7 images, only 2-3).
>>
>> Then also of course I suppose I'd have to have Fuji's software for
>> handling the RAW files, too--Nikon's wouldn't work? (I already have a
>> Nikon CP5700 and it shoots RAW, and I've got software for all that.)
>>
>> The other disadvantage would be its dual battery system--which would only
>> matter if you use the pop-up flash apparently, but I imagine I would
>> quite a lot. Has no rechargeable alternative to the CR123As still not
>> been developed?
>>
>> Also--do any of you use the 12 MP mode, and what advantages does it
>> offer? (Apparently it's not a "true" 12MP like the new S3 uses, but would
>> be a lot like 9MP; that still would be cool, I'd guess--at least in
>> "non-burst" modes.)
>>
>> I really am tempted overall to do this, just need some S2 Pro users out
>> there who can comment on their usage of the camera.
>>
>> PS--the S3 Pro is not an option, I'm just a hobbyist & not a
>> professional, I could even begin to justify a camera like that, as great
>> a camera as I have no doubt the S3 is.
>>
>> LRH
>>
>>
> If you buy a S2 Pro check the serial number. They had a bad batch of CCDs
> about a year and a half ago that were failing after 12 to 18 months of
> service. They are aware of the problem and were fixing them at no charge
> up to 6 months out of warranty. Mine failed at 16 months and was repaired
> in November at no cost to me. The serial numbers that seemed to have the
> problem started with A31 and A32. Mine was an A32.
>

Have had my S2 since August 2002, and have taken more than 14,000 images
with the camera.
It has behaved faultlessly.

I agree the dual battery system is a nuisance. I did have a look for
rechargeable CR123A and found a UK based company. Unfortunately the
company's internet ordering system insisted that Scotland was not part of
the UK and tried to apply a £20 or so postal charge. They did not reply
to any of my enquiries, so I just order my Cr123as in bulk from 7DayShop.

I always use the camera on 12MP mode, and normally set it for fine JPG
output. For situations where I think I may need to get the absolute best
out of the image, then I use RAW mode. Just did a quick test a few
minutes ago, and I can get 7 RAW shots in 12MP mode in 6 seconds. After
that, the camera will continue to take more pictures, but at reduced rate.
Even so, as the buffer begins to clear, you can keep taking pictures leaving
the camera storage system to catch up. I have never run out of capacity,
but then I don't go in for sports photography. Basically, 99% of my
images are in fine jpg at 12MP mode, and I regularly make prints up to A3
size for camera club competition entries. In 12MP mode, you actually get an
image of 4256x2848 so it does output 12Mp files. It does this with the
aid of some black-art electronics from a sensor with 6M receptors.
Cheating....yes perhaps, but it seems to work. I have no complaints

The S2 comes with finepix viewer software, and this has a trimmed down RAW
file converter. The full blown RAW converter is available at additional
cost, but is probably not worth the expense.

There is a forum for Fuji S2 users at
http://www.theswampbbs.com/forums/
They are a friendly bunch, and I am sure you would get all your questions
answered there.

Regards
Dennis
Anonymous
January 6, 2005 1:15:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Don B wrote:
>
>
> Larry R Harrison Jr wrote:
>
>> Someone is selling an S2 Pro body for $750. I could probably get $600
>> for my EOS300D (Digital Rebel) & 18-55 lens if I sold it--and I am
>> particularly considering this because my Rebel required a $130 repair
>> to it for secondary mirror issues--plus I've always been a Nikon fan,
>> and of course the S2 Pro is based largely on Nikon technology & even
>> uses its lens mount.
>>
>> On top of that, I used to be a Nikon N80 35mm SLR shooter, and
>> naturally I'd feel right at home with the Fuji S2. I have very little
>> glass on either the Canon or Nikon side.
>>
>> The main thing that may cause me to NOT do this would likely be RAW
>> usage; I used RAW on the DR a lot, and it hardly slowed it down, at
>> least in burst mode; it didn't tie up the camera much, I could take
>> the next RAW photo within 1 1/2 seconds even if I had filled up the
>> buffer. Apparently with the Fuji this would extend to 8 seconds,
>> although you could take 7 in the buffer as opposed to just 4 with the
>> Canon.
>>
>> I don't need sports-photography type of speed, I just want to not be
>> tied up for long periods if I fire up, say, 2-3 RAW photos
>> consecutively; I'd like to be able to take another one a second or two
>> later. Would this be possible with the S2 Pro (again, in this case I
>> would NOT have filled up the buffer with 7 images, only 2-3).
>>
>> Then also of course I suppose I'd have to have Fuji's software for
>> handling the RAW files, too--Nikon's wouldn't work? (I already have a
>> Nikon CP5700 and it shoots RAW, and I've got software for all that.)
>>
>> The other disadvantage would be its dual battery system--which would
>> only matter if you use the pop-up flash apparently, but I imagine I
>> would quite a lot. Has no rechargeable alternative to the CR123As
>> still not been developed?
>>
>> Also--do any of you use the 12 MP mode, and what advantages does it
>> offer? (Apparently it's not a "true" 12MP like the new S3 uses, but
>> would be a lot like 9MP; that still would be cool, I'd guess--at least
>> in "non-burst" modes.)
>>
>> I really am tempted overall to do this, just need some S2 Pro users
>> out there who can comment on their usage of the camera.
>>
>> PS--the S3 Pro is not an option, I'm just a hobbyist & not a
>> professional, I could even begin to justify a camera like that, as
>> great a camera as I have no doubt the S3 is.
>>
>> LRH
>>
>>
> If you buy a S2 Pro check the serial number. They had a bad batch of
> CCDs about a year and a half ago that were failing after 12 to 18 months
> of service. They are aware of the problem and were fixing them at no
> charge up to 6 months out of warranty. Mine failed at 16 months and was
> repaired in November at no cost to me. The serial numbers that seemed to
> have the problem started with A31 and A32. Mine was an A32.
>
I transposed the digits on the serial numbers, it should have been 31A
and 32A
!