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MSI GTX 470 problem (under powered??)

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a b Î Nvidia
August 16, 2010 8:51:47 PM

I recently got an MSI GTX 470 (the one with the stock cooling and SF4 graphics on the box), and am having problems with it. Card installs fine boots ok and will work for an hour or 2 then the display freezes and a CTRL ALT DELETE locks the system and I have to hit the reset switch. After reset it boots back up but will freeze almost immediately or not making it past the windows loading screen.

I have read alot of conflicting things on power requirements for this card and suspect this might be the culprit, but the symptoms don't seem to me like that of a power problem. I've had cards before that the power supply couldn't handle, and the result was either a warning led on the card and it wouldn't even post or boot, or the PSU got hot after a while and shut itself down. In this case the PSU is blowing cold air the whole time and never seems overloaded. I have a cheap old 585w PSU with 19w and 20w 12v rails so it's pretty borderline considering some of the GTX 470s claim to need 38w on the 12v rails, but again, my symptoms do not fit what I think they would be if power was the issue. The card did run hot when gaming (85c or so) but not hot enough to crash it, and after some use it crashes even when not under load just sitting there looking at the desktop.

One issue I had was when I ran MSI afterburner that came with the card it was giving me #s that made no sense to me. Card is advertised to have a 607 core clock and 837 mhz memory, but without me messing with any setting afterburner was displaying 1599 mhz core clock and 801 mhz memory (I know these seem reversed, they are not)

I really don't want to spend close to $100 bucks on a new power supply only to find out that's not the issue, can anyone tell me if it sounds like I need a power supply or if it's the card? The card was open box, I'm guessing this is why, but I want to be sure before I decide to RMA the thing since I can't replace it for what I paid so I don't really want to return it.

a b Î Nvidia
August 16, 2010 9:32:34 PM

cheap power supplies rarely provide the power they list. Often those listings where taken in colder then real life conditions.

having a solid PSU is a good idea regardless if it's causing an issue.

$53 budget PSU, 37a on the 12v + bronze certified is plenty enough for the GTX 470
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

options under $75
40a on the 12v and bronze certified
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

same PSU as above (different brand name) with some cheaper caps and 80+ certified
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
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a b Î Nvidia
August 16, 2010 10:13:27 PM

^ I'm seeing 2 22a 12v rails on the first one, where did you get the 37a from? Thanks for the advise, I guess I should get a new PSU regardless, I'm just really cheap and hate to replace things that aren't broken. This card was really more than I wanted to spend in the first place but I didn't want to pass it up on open box special for $235.

Anyways I forgot my system specs before

POS Zotac motherboard (610i/7050)
e8500 not oced
4 gb corsair xms2 800mhz ddr2
windows xp 64
old saphire radeon 3870 (that I wouldn't have bothered trying to replace if I knew it would still run SC2 on ultra, good old card) pending gtx 470
cheap arse 585w HEC power supply
LG blu-ray drive
Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 250gb boot drive
purdy black case with a bunch of mesh and some shiny blue fans.




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a b Î Nvidia
August 16, 2010 10:59:14 PM

I've got the same video card (except it has the Jet sticker instead of the stupid SF4 sticker thank God! They've released it with both sticker options). Anyhow, mine works like a champ (albeit it runs pretty warm!).

But I'm using an Antec TPQ-850 power supply. :) 

ct1615's recommendations are good. A solid power supply can make a world of a difference. I'm not familiar with the SeaSonic brand PSU, but Antec's units are always true to their specs. Quality components from a long time quality company.
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a b Î Nvidia
August 16, 2010 11:13:16 PM

Thanks for the link, good info. So how do you know what the total power on the 12v rail is? I don't see that listed anywhere.

Aside from that though do you see my symptoms as being indicative of an overloaded power supply? My experience and everything I've read is that when a power supply gets overloaded it overheats and shuts down.
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a b Î Nvidia
August 17, 2010 12:31:53 AM

jerreece said:

ct1615's recommendations are good. A solid power supply can make a world of a difference. I'm not familiar with the SeaSonic brand PSU, but Antec's units are always true to their specs. Quality components from a long time quality company.


seasonic makes excellent units as well as providing many PSU sold under the name of Antec, Corsair, XFX, and PC Power & Cooling.
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a b Î Nvidia
August 17, 2010 12:33:10 AM

benski said:
Thanks for the link, good info. So how do you know what the total power on the 12v rail is? I don't see that listed anywhere.

Aside from that though do you see my symptoms as being indicative of an overloaded power supply? My experience and everything I've read is that when a power supply gets overloaded it overheats and shuts down.


not always, it actually depends on the PSU itself and what components it has in it.

I showed you the equation for amps in my post above, the amps themselves are not always listed on a PSU
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a b Î Nvidia
August 17, 2010 2:04:13 AM

^where did you come up with the 444 watts on the 12v rail? I didn't see that anywhere in the specs.
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a b Î Nvidia
August 17, 2010 3:03:34 AM

on the back of the PSU there is a sticker stating amps on the 5v, 3.3v, 12v, etc.,. on the sticker, it states 12v max load 444w
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a b Î Nvidia
August 18, 2010 8:14:51 PM

wow nice price, its cheaper then the 520w
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August 18, 2010 8:45:57 PM

I think I've got a very simular problem (http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/295807-15-weird-nvidia-gtx470-randomly-crashes-system-black-screen-corruption), although my card is not from MSI but from Point of View.

I've got an Antec EA-650 EC, which is declared to be a reliant and good PSU (http://dealnay.com/271529/antec-earthwatts-650-watt-atx-cpu-power-supply.html):
  1. "A very good power supply" The Antec EA650 built by Delta is a very good power supply unit. This is one PSU I would recommend if you were to buy a PSU at a local B&M store. They also go on sale sometimes on Bestbuy.com. This was on sale for $74.99 not too long ago. It has 2 x PCI-E connectors. 1 is a 6 pin and the other is a 8pin(6+2pin). So, you should have no problem connecting a Radeon HD4890 video card. It has 45A(540W/12V = 45A) on the +12V rail which is more than enough to handle any single high end video card right now. The 120mm internal fan is also quiet. The price/performance is very good considering you can get this on-sale at a local retail store. This allows you to exchange or refund if something is wrong with your unit. Rating: 5 (by HardwareGuru, 2009-09-20)


The guy named 'HardwareGuru' says that it should be able to power each single high end video card right now... While assembling the computer, first I was worried there was only one connector with "PCI-E" characters on it, the 8/6-pin connector. Then I saw a connector with "P4" characters on it, resembling just like the PCI-E connector (but now only 6-pin, not 8/6-pin). After googling a bit I found that the PCI-E + P4 connectors are suitable for the 2x 6-pin PCI-E power slots of the GTX470...

Maybe that's the reason of my problem, and if so, it could also be yours?
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a b Î Nvidia
August 18, 2010 8:50:00 PM

the P4 is a 4-pin CPU power connector (the PCI-E connector is either 6 pin or 6+2 pin) and should not be used to connect to a video card. if you lack a second PCI-E connector, use the adapter that comes with the video card or buy one of newegg, tigerdirect, etc.,

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
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a b Î Nvidia
August 18, 2010 11:12:28 PM

Yeah my current PSU only had one 6 pin PCI-E so I had to use the molex adapter for the other one. I don't think the connectors was a problem for me because I don't think these cards will even post or boot without the power connected to them.
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a b Î Nvidia
August 18, 2010 11:24:21 PM

ct1615 said:
seasonic makes excellent units as well as providing many PSU sold under the name of Antec, Corsair, XFX, and PC Power & Cooling.


Good to know! So many companies these days sell products they don't actually manufacture. :( 
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a b Î Nvidia
August 19, 2010 12:27:18 AM

jerreece said:
Good to know! So many companies these days sell products they don't actually manufacture. :( 


most PSU brand companies don't make PSU. my corsair is actually made by Channel Well Tech, seasonic makes several other corsair PSU. Antecs are made by Delta (they make some DELL PSU), Seasonic, Channel Well Tech, FSP, and Enhance. OCZ also uses Channel Well Tech, and FSP, among others. The list goes on and on....
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August 19, 2010 6:50:58 AM

ct1615 said:
the P4 is a 4-pin CPU power connector (the PCI-E connector is either 6 pin or 6+2 pin) and should not be used to connect to a video card. if you lack a second PCI-E connector, use the adapter that comes with the video card or buy one of newegg, tigerdirect, etc.,

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...


The weird thing is that the connector with "P4" characters on it, isn't a white 4-pin connector, but it's a black 6-pin connector. The second image on this site is the connector named "P4" on my PSU. So the adapter is built in?

So, you say that that black 6-pin connector is suitable as a second PCI-E power connector? You're certainly true because I can boot, post, and even play high demanding games, BUT sometimes it just crashes (black screen+reboot or screen corruption).
Maybe my problem is only related to my graphics card, not the PSU?
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a b Î Nvidia
August 19, 2010 2:10:07 PM

that's not a P4 connector so I don't know why your PSU would call it one. Very odd.
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a b Î Nvidia
August 19, 2010 7:17:58 PM

Eliasvan said:
The weird thing is that the connector with "P4" characters on it, isn't a white 4-pin connector, but it's a black 6-pin connector. The second image on this site is the connector named "P4" on my PSU. So the adapter is built in?

So, you say that that black 6-pin connector is suitable as a second PCI-E power connector? You're certainly true because I can boot, post, and even play high demanding games, BUT sometimes it just crashes (black screen+reboot or screen corruption).
Maybe my problem is only related to my graphics card, not the PSU?


ok i checked out the pics of your PSU. Antec labeled the cable as "P4" probably for internal reasons, P1 is the 24 pin cable, P2 is the 8pin 12v, etc., By the way you should have 2 x PCI-E cables. A 8 pin and 6-pin

1 x Main connector (20+4Pin)
1 x 4 Pin ATX 12V
1 x 8 Pin EPS 12V
6 x Peripheral
6 x SATA
1 x Floppy
2 x PCI-E (1 x 6-Pin, 1 x 6+2-Pin)
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August 20, 2010 8:53:57 AM

ct1615 said:
ok i checked out the pics of your PSU. Antec labeled the cable as "P4" probably for internal reasons, P1 is the 24 pin cable, P2 is the 8pin 12v, etc., By the way you should have 2 x PCI-E cables. A 8 pin and 6-pin

1 x Main connector (20+4Pin)
1 x 4 Pin ATX 12V
1 x 8 Pin EPS 12V
6 x Peripheral
6 x SATA
1 x Floppy
2 x PCI-E (1 x 6-Pin, 1 x 6+2-Pin)


You're right, this url listens all connectors very clearly, you can see there's only one 6-pin connector (besides the 6+2-Pin connector). That connector is referred as 6 Pin PCI-E on the Antec website.
But on this site (scroll to about the middle of the page) you can see clearly an image of a 6-Pin connector with "P4" on it. However below that image they say it's another PCI-E connector. I can believe this because my graphics card works(besides the crashes :(  ), but admit that those "P4" characters are a bit strange.

So, I may be sure my PSU is not the reason of my problems? However I hope Benski's new PSU will at least solve HIS problems...
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a b Î Nvidia
August 21, 2010 3:51:39 PM

Well I installed the new PSU last night and no joy, same problems as before, except now after uninstalling and reinstalling drivers a few times it got to where I coulnd't even boot in anything other than safe mode, if I did I just got a screen that looked like I had a dirty nintendo game plugged in.

I think I'm going to try and different O/S since MSI's site doesn't have any drivers for XP 64 and the ones from the NVidia site don't seem to work for me. I'm about 99% sure at this point that there is something wrong with the card but I want to exhaust all options before dealing the the manufacturer for a replacement.
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a b Î Nvidia
August 21, 2010 3:58:37 PM

Yeah that kind of sounds like there's an issue with the video card. Safe Mode boots up at like 800x600 resolution and doesn't use video drivers. It just uses the most basic VGA hardware in the card itself so far as I know.

Have you contacted MSI yet? Might have to RMA the card perhaps.
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August 21, 2010 6:20:23 PM

Oh man, i hate it it didn't solve your problem. Not only for you but also for me, I think we've got the ~same problem, and the most irritating of all is, that I've got a graphics card from "Point of View", not from "MSI"... :(  I'm confused: does the problem lay by the GTX470 gpu or by the card manufacturers (that would be rather a coincidence)?? :? :??:  ?: ?

Changing your OS can bring some clarity in this problem, although in my case, I've tried many different versions both of OS (Linux: knoppix 5, knoppix 6, fedora 12 and fedora 13) and of nvidia drivers (stable: 195.36.31 and latest: 256.35), and nothing bothered :(  ...
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a b Î Nvidia
August 22, 2010 3:09:05 PM

^I think there is a pretty high failure rate for that chip, I don't think it's exclusive to any one manufacturer. Anyways Point of View appears to have the same 3 year warranty that MSI does. I think I'm just going to return the card to newegg and get a 460 or 465, I don't feel paying to ship this thing to taiwon and dealing with the manufacturer, and maybe it was just this particular card, but I wasn't really comfortable with having a card that idles around 70 degrees without fan adjustments.
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August 23, 2010 8:40:35 AM

Maybe I should follow your decision...
Are you planning to do the return very soon? If so, let me know if it fixes your problem.

Thanks for the advice.
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a b Î Nvidia
August 23, 2010 2:50:20 PM

I'm attempting to deal with MSI today before giving up and sending it back to newegg. So far I haven't been able to reach anything other than an answering machine, and I there ridiculously long online help request form didn't give me alot of hope. I'll let you know how it goes.
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August 23, 2010 9:03:54 PM

Ok, I bought my card from 4launch.nl, which has good support for RMA and warranty (2y). If I return the card, I'll buy a Club3d GTX460 OC, they seem to be as fast as my current one and costs about 50 bucks less.
I think(/hope) there are less errors on that chip... :sweat: 
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September 2, 2010 2:34:31 PM

Ok, I sent my card back for RMA and the manufacturer confirmed the card was broken.
Now, I bought a MSI PCI-e GeForce GTX470 Twin Frozr II 1.28GB, let's hope it will do better...
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a b Î Nvidia
September 8, 2010 11:57:08 PM

Best answer selected by Benski.
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a b Î Nvidia
September 8, 2010 11:58:38 PM

Yup, mine too. I ended up getting a Palit GTX 465 for 183 bucks after I returned the 470 and I am very happy with it.
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a c 172 Î Nvidia
September 8, 2010 11:59:28 PM

This topic has been closed by Mousemonkey
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