ATI 5850 or Nvidia GTX 470

[Tex-Twil]

Hello,
the previous thread where I was trying to gather opinion about those two cards was closed and I was asked to start a new one.

Basically, I'm hesitating between those two cards. Here is the information I 've gathered till now.

HD 5850:
- good price
- good performances
- not excessive electricity consumption
- noise seems to be fine
- Does not support PhysX

GTX 470:
- slightly more expensive (30-40€)
- according to some tests faster that the 470
- higher electricity consumption, heat and noise.

I watched those videos which compares PhysX ON and OFF in Mafia II
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONQfbGBtitY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aG4C6ctYwYM

When the setting APEX PhysX is set to OFF, is that what I would get with a 5850 ? If so, it's still quite ok. I actually tried the demo with this setting set to off on my current notebook (nvidia) and the physics are still very good.


The 5850 seems to be the perfect candidate but there are some vidoes showing the cool PhysX effects that I don't want to miss. On the other hand I'm afraid of the noise that the GTX 470 could produce.

Thanks for your opinions.

 

[namelessonez]

This was what I posted in the previous thread:

The feel of actual gameplay cannot be compared to a video on youtube. Youtube may give an 'idea' of the settings, but will not give the finer details qua graphics quality. whereas what you experience while in-game is totally different.

I saw a number of vdeos of prrototype, BFBC2 before buying them. When I saw the videos, it was like "Hmm...ok graphics" but when I played them it was like "WOW graphics!!". You may want to use youtube, etc for reference sake regarding the 'type' of gameplay, rather than 'quality' of gameplay.

Hence, I would suggest you go with what you experience first hand.

On your point of concern over the noise, the 470 'will' make slightly more noise than the 5850 and 'will' run a li'l hotter than the 5850. But there are new drivers from nVidia which take care of, at least, theheat issue. So that's scappered.

As for the noise, like I said previously, the MSI cards will have two fans running, which would result in acceptable noise levels....in any event, the noise won't be like a jet engine about to take off!

I like PhysX. I feel it works in more games than just a few. Also, imho, the 470 is a better bet as against the 5850 overall. Plus, if you were to SLI it in future...wow!!

 

[Tex-Twil]

This was what I posted in the previous thread:

The feel of actual gameplay cannot be compared to a video on youtube. Youtube may give an 'idea' of the settings, but will not give the finer details qua graphics quality. whereas what you experience while in-game is totally different.

I saw a number of vdeos of prrototype, BFBC2 before buying them. When I saw the videos, it was like "Hmm...ok graphics" but when I played them it was like "WOW graphics!!". You may want to use youtube, etc for reference sake regarding the 'type' of gameplay, rather than 'quality' of gameplay.

Hence, I would suggest you go with what you experience first hand.

On your point of concern over the noise, the 470 'will' make slightly more noise than the 5850 and 'will' run a li'l hotter than the 5850. But there are new drivers from nVidia which take care of, at least, theheat issue. So that's scappered.

As for the noise, like I said previously, the MSI cards will have two fans running, which would result in acceptable noise levels....in any event, the noise won't be like a jet engine about to take off!

I like PhysX. I feel it works in more games than just a few. Also, imho, the 470 is a better bet as against the 5850 overall. Plus, if you were to SLI it in future...wow!!

I wanted to answer you in the previous thread but it was already closed

I actually did experience the Mafia II gameplay with the demo (on my current laptop nvidia) and was impressed by the "physics". Only then I realized that "APEX PhysX" was set to "off". Hence my question if that's what I'd get with an ATI card or if the nvidia does more physics even if the setting is turned off.

Thanks for your feedback

 

[namelessonez]

What's your current nVidia model? I have a doubt whether it supports PhysX. If it does support PhysX, did you try the Demo with PhysX on?

The effects that PhysX creates should be noticeable when supported by a GPU/ turned on. At the cost of repetition, PhysX isn't just a gimmick. It does work. A lot of ppl will disagree and say go ATI way because PhysX ain't all that. But chosing an ATI simply because one thinks PhysX is bull, would be wrong in my humble opinion! I for one, have always liked PhysX, so would recommend it. In fact, people go 3-way SLI in which one card is dedicated to only PhysX....now, would that be for the sake of a simple 'gimmick'? I don't think so!

Best test would be if you can see a game with PhysX off and then with off. Check it in the same game with the same config....IF possible. Don't rely too much on online videos....they'll only show you an iota of the actual difference.

 

[Tex-Twil]

I have a nVidia 330m.

 

[Tex-Twil]

.. so it looks like it does support PhysX

 

[namelessonez]

Yup, it does support PhysX. But did you try the game when PhysX was on?

 

[Mousemonkey]

I have a nVidia 330m.

Is that a laptop GPU?

 

[Tex-Twil]

Is that a laptop GPU?

yep. Usually the "m" means mobile GPU.

 

[Mousemonkey]

yep. Usually the "m" means mobile GPU.

So what desktop GPU have you got at the moment? And yes I should have read the thread properly because you did mention using a laptop earlier.

 

[Tex-Twil]

So what desktop GPU have you got at the moment? And yes I should have read the thread properly because you did mention using a laptop earlier.

I have no desktop at all. I want get one that's why I'm looking for a suitable card.

 

[Mousemonkey]

I have no desktop at all. I want get one that's why I'm looking for a suitable card.

You might be better off starting a thread in the systems section and get help putting an entire system together then rather than just getting a graphics card.

 

[Tex-Twil]

You might be better off starting a thread in the systems section and get help putting an entire system together then rather than just getting a graphics card.

well I know exactly what I want for the other components. I'm just hesitating for the graphic card.

 

[notty22]

You might be better off starting a thread in the systems section and get help putting an entire system together then rather than just getting a graphics card.

+1
Its kind of pointless to debate two very good cards with someone that has no point of reference. Does not currently game with a desktop and has no setup to optimize to .

 

[Tex-Twil]

+1
Its kind of pointless to debate two very good cards with someone that has no point of reference. Does not currently game with a desktop and has no setup to optimize to .

In other words, if I do not own a Desktop, I cannot discuss the pros/cons of a card for my new setup ??! I don't really get it.

anyway, if it can help, here is the rest of the setup that I'm planning to get

Intel Core i7 860 4x2.80GHz
ASUS P7P55D Pro
Corsair XMS3 KIT 4GB PC3-12800U DDR3-1600 CL9
Enermax MODU82+ 525W II

 

[Mousemonkey]

With that motherboard I reckon you would be better off with the 5850.

 

[Tex-Twil]

With that motherboard I reckon you would be better off with the 5850.

hmm, isn't it good enough for the 470 ? which one would then be good for the nvidia ?

 

[Mousemonkey]

hmm, isn't it good enough for the 470 ? which one would then be good for the nvidia ?

If I were to use a P55 board with Nvidia cards then I would look to those that had the n200 chipset as that would give a full x16 + x16 rather than the x8 + x8 that the board you have chosen has because I like the idea of the cards having as much bandwidth as possible available (regardless of whether it's used or not) to them and as SLi seems to scale better than Xfire the x8 + x8 would be less of a hindrance to Xfired 5850's than it would to SLi'd 470's.

 

[Tex-Twil]

If I were to use a P55 board with Nvidia cards then I would look to those that had the n200 chipset as that would give a full x16 + x16 rather than the x8 + x8 that the board you have chosen has because I like the idea of the cards having as much bandwidth as possible available (regardless of whether it's used or not) to them and as SLi seems to scale better than Xfire the x8 + x8 would be less of a hindrance to Xfired 5850's than it would to SLi'd 470's.

ok, thanks for the advice. Which for example would you pick ?

Btw, I found an interesting noise test of both cards here. Of course it's difficult guess what it would be in a real usage (with case) but at least it gives and idea how much louder the nvidia 470 is.

 

[Mousemonkey]

Well I've been contemplating a new rig and the only boards that I've been musing over are the X58 ones but a)they're damn expensive and b)we have yet to have any 4 series cards with all cores enabled. As for the noise level I currently use a case that has five 80mm fans all spinning at 100% which would quite easily drown out the fan noise of a quad GTX480 setup! :lol:

 

[Tex-Twil]

Well I've been contemplating a new rig and the only boards that I've been musing over are the X58 ones but a)they're damn expensive and b)we have yet to have any 4 series cards with all cores enabled.

well I told myself that the price for my new pc should be around 1000 € so I don't have much space for a expensive motherboard. Would the P55 be really a bottleneck for the GTX 470 or just a theoretic one ? I do not inted to go SLI anyway

 

[Mousemonkey]

well I told myself that the price for my new pc should be around 1000 € so I don't have much space for a expensive motherboard. Would the P55 be really a bottleneck for the GTX 470 or just a theoretic one ? I do not inted to go SLI anyway

If you are only ever going to use a single card then it won't matter as far as the x8 + x8 restriction goes because a single card will be running x16 and in that case I would go for the GTX470 as I prefer Nvidia cards to ATi ones and the 470 is faster than the 5850 anyway and the noise and heat is about the same between the two cards but the 470 does require a bit more power.

 

[Tex-Twil]

http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/video/geforce-gtx470-sli/palit470_noise.png

Interesting, in your bench the 470 is shown even as more quiet as the 5850.

Other tests show the opposite.

I think I'll go for the 470 and basta

I guess that this Asus is ok.

cheers,
Tex

 

[Mousemonkey]

The noise and heat output seems to have been blown out of proportion somewhat by the ATi faithfull but whilst the Zotac card on that site would probably be even quieter but it just costs too much, I'd go for the cheaper Asus one as well and I have an Asus 7900GT here that still works perfectly after six years of hard service so I can't find fault with them.

 

[AMW1011]

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GTX_480_PCI-Express_Scaling

As you can see you will basically lose NOTHING when using an X8 slot over an X16 slot, so your mobo choice is fine.

Also, the GTX 470 is a good 10-15% faster than the 5850, performs far better with extreme tessellation, and when you add another, the SLI scaling is 15-25% better than crossfire.

It will run hotter, but not by much. It will be noiser, but with a custom fan profile it will only be noisy during games where the sound is turned up. It will consume more power, but nothing too outrageous.

Get the GTX 470, its faster and doesn't cost much more.