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Please suggest a mobo for my Core2Quad Q8200

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August 26, 2011 3:12:32 PM

I m considering replacing my existing mobo DG35EC for a new mobo with PCIe2.0x16 connectors as i m in the market for a new graphics card (HD 6850 ).
CPU : Core2Quad Q8200@2.33GHz ... I might consider OCing my CPU at near future
I could spend around 100 bucks on this , so do help me ..
Thanks in advance :) 

More about : suggest mobo core2quad q8200

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August 26, 2011 3:30:22 PM

1) If I read it correctly, the DG35EC has a X16 2.0 expansion slot already.
Even if it did not, X16 graphics cards are both forward and backeard compatible with 1.0 and 2.0, and the performance difference is nil.
A 6850 should be fine, assuming you have a 500w psu to support it.

2) Regardless, I would not spend anything to upgrade a pc that is several generations old.
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a b U Graphics card
August 26, 2011 3:32:16 PM

To be honest, you would be better off just completely upgrading your computer. Your processor is going to bottleneck anything you will be doing with your new graphics card and its kinda a waste to get a brand new mobo just to upgrade your GPU.

With the new Ivy Bridge processors coming out in the next quarter I would expect to see the Sandy Bridge line drop in price a bit making it very affordable for you to put together an awesome new build for a great price.
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a c 97 V Motherboard
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August 26, 2011 3:37:20 PM

I would assume that the DG35EC would have some sort of 35 series chipset, possibly even the G35 meaning onboard graphics. All the G35/P35 boards have PCIe 1.0. Only the X38 and 45 boards have PCIe 2.0.

I would not spend $100 on a board just to get PCIe 2.0. Total waste. 16x PCIe 1.0 is the same amount of bandwidth as 8x PCIe 2.0, which if fine for CF/SLI use. Set the $100 aside, keep saving for a new build.
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August 26, 2011 3:42:52 PM

Nearly all of the new Core2 boards (what few there are) use DDR3 RAM, so you would need to factor new RAM in the budget. If you cannot find a used P43 or P45 motherboard for $50 - $70, the upgrade does not make economic sense.

There are a few G41 boards available for around $50, but the G41 chipset is a very poor candidate for overclocking a CPU like the Q8200 that has a 333 MHz FSB freq.
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August 26, 2011 3:53:15 PM

4745454b said:
I would assume that the DG35EC would have some sort of 35 series chipset, possibly even the G35 meaning onboard graphics. All the G35/P35 boards have PCIe 1.0. Only the X38 and 45 boards have PCIe 2.0.

I would not spend $100 on a board just to get PCIe 2.0. Total waste. 16x PCIe 1.0 is the same amount of bandwidth as 8x PCIe 2.0, which if fine for CF/SLI use. Set the $100 aside, keep saving for a new build.


I may not be reading this correctly, but intel specs show gen 2.x for that motherboard:
http://ark.intel.com/products/34689/Intel-Desktop-Board...

Moot point,though, I agree on not spending anything to upgrade.
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August 26, 2011 4:06:38 PM

geofelt said:
1) If I read it correctly, the DG35EC has a X16 2.0 expansion slot already.
Even if it did not, X16 graphics cards are both forward and backeard compatible with 1.0 and 2.0, and the performance difference is nil.
A 6850 should be fine, assuming you have a 500w psu to support it.

2) Regardless, I would not spend anything to upgrade a pc that is several generations old.


I was ready to to get the HD6850 until someone out of the blue pointed out that a PCIe2.1 card would have problems when fixed on a 1.0 slot and this would not be the case with a PCIe2.0 card . And when i referred about chipsets in wikipedia i found out that mobos with PCIe2.0 slots started rolling out only from x38 chipsets and my current GPUz bus interface status also proves that my mobo only has PCIe1.O gen slot .
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August 26, 2011 4:14:54 PM

The stuff behind this upgrade is that i might be using my current PC at the most for some 10 months , so i thought of upgrading my mobo in case my current mobo doesnt support the card . And from what ive read and heard there seems to be no problem with the Nvidia cards . Only the ATI cards that sport a PCIe2.1 look creates all sorts of *** . I could not buy any Nvidia cards since they cost high as hell over here . That sums it all..
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August 26, 2011 4:35:00 PM

Where is "over here"? I am surprised that there is a big difference in price anywhere between AMD and Nvidia cards of equivalent capability.

I am also surprised that there are any issues with pci-e 1.0 and 2.0/2.1. They are supposed to be compatible.

Can you refer me to where you saw the issue?

I think it is a good idea to do a graphics upgrade first, assuming you can do so without spending more on parts that can not be carried forward to a new build.
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August 26, 2011 4:51:15 PM

geofelt said:
Where is "over here"? I am surprised that there is a big difference in price anywhere between AMD and Nvidia cards of equivalent capability.

I am also surprised that there are any issues with pci-e 1.0 and 2.0/2.1. They are supposed to be compatible.

Can you refer me to where you saw the issue?

I think it is a good idea to do a graphics upgrade first, assuming you can do so without spending more on parts that can not be carried forward to a new build.

"Over here" - India
Let me llustrate the high pricing with an example :
The 550 Ti costs US$240 here
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a c 266 V Motherboard
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August 26, 2011 5:11:30 PM

scapegoat_44 said:
"Over here" - India
Let me llustrate the high pricing with an example :
The 550 Ti costs US$240 here


By comparison, what does a 6850 cost in India? It is a bit stronger than a GTX550ti.

Why should there be a big difference?
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a b U Graphics card
August 26, 2011 6:34:46 PM

scapegoat_44 said:
"Over here" - India
Let me llustrate the high pricing with an example :
The 550 Ti costs US$240 here


Good...i'm in India too, lucky you. ;) 
I know, graphics is damn expensive. it's sad. But dude, it does not cost that much, you could land yourself a GTX 460 or 560 for that amount. The 550 Ti costs about 8 grand in Delhi (i'm talking rupees), which is a bit much, you should be better off with a 5770 and save about 1.5k in the process. The 6850 is also roughly the same price, maybe around 12k depending on where you are and who you talk to.

Which city are you in? If you're in Delhi/NCR, Nehru Place is the place to go, and i'm sure you already know that if you live here. Try looking at http://ratetorate.in , they have a newegg-like system starting up. They sell at nehru place prices, you'll get an idea of what you'll find, and for how much. You could also check ebay for the same.

Mumbai and Chennai are a bit more expensive i think.

I've a Q8400 with the exact same mobo. Have been thinking about an upgrade too, thought i'd hold off for kepler and the next-gen radeons. Wasn't aware of this issue though. Have a 9600GT, it's running in v1.1. My processor doesn't seem to be a bottleneck at present.

The pdf manual confirms it to be a v1.1 bus. It also says the board has:

"One PCI Express x16 connector supporting simultaneous transfer speeds up to
4 GBytes/sec of peak bandwidth per direction and up to 8 GBytes/sec concurrent
bandwidth."

I don't see any issues with my graphics card, however i must note that i get a data transfer bandwidth of 2.09 GB/s, according to SiSoftware Sandra. Can't tell which's at fault here, the pcie bus or the geforce.

Anyway, there are boards that support the newer chipsets, listed here:
http://processormatch.intel.com/COMPDB/SearchResult.asp...

I have no clue how much of a difference it'll make.

Cheers,
Ojas

p.s. the ratetorate prices may be a bit off for some things, but assume a delta of 2k for the 9-15k price range.


update: Found this on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCIe#PCI_Express_1.1 . It says that 2.0 cards are backwards compatible and should work on the older interface, though max speed of the older one will be half of 2.0. Avoid High-end cards, that's all i can say, the low-end mid range may not be able to saturate the bandwidth (or so i've read somewhere). i'll hopefully be able post bandwidth info for a 5770 on a sandy bridge platform soon, have to rope in a friend for that.



If someone has a GTX 460 (or equivalent card) and comes across this thread, it would be nice (and very helpful) if they could post Sandra's graphics data bandwidth benchmark results here.
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August 27, 2011 4:13:42 AM

@ ojas
Cheers mate . BTW , I m from Coimbatore , Tamilnadu . I can tell you the prices of videocards out here
ATI 5770 - 8k
ATI 6790 -9.5k
ATI 6850 - 10.5k
ATI 6870 - 13k
Nvidia 550 Ti - 11k
450 GTS - 7.5k
So , my inference is that the GTX 460 1gigs should be around 15k , though i havent actually verified it .
Has any of your friends fixed any 2.1 card on a PCIe1.0 slot ?
And when i asked one or two dealers for mobo for my quad they said LGA775 was long gone and it would be kinda difficult to find a new mobo :( 
Anyways , i ll keep it posted on any new development ... :) 
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August 27, 2011 4:20:10 AM

I've heard that 2.1 cards MIGHT have issues in some 1.0 boards, but usually very older ones from what I can gather. A G/P35 board shouldn't have an issue.
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August 27, 2011 4:23:07 AM

geofelt said:
By comparison, what does a 6850 cost in India? It is a bit stronger than a GTX550ti.

Why should there be a big difference?


HD 6850 costs around $225 and i can very well go for that and that is why a sort of inclination towards ATI cards .
HD 6870 costs around $280 , which makes the Nvidia GTX 460 nearly $300 considering 550Ti sells at $240 . I havent enquired about GTX 460 though .
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August 27, 2011 4:27:53 AM

4745454b said:
I've heard that 2.1 cards MIGHT have issues in some 1.0 boards, but usually very older ones from what I can gather. A G/P35 board shouldn't have an issue.

Thats a statement out of sympathy i guess .... jus kiddin dude... ;) 
Anyways , i ll be gettin the HD 6850 most probably by Monday and i ll surely post how the installation went .
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August 27, 2011 9:29:09 AM

ah you're sitting in Coimbatore...well you're in luck then, the GTX 460 and HD 6850 are both available in Chennai for around 10-12k, you could order one online from The IT Depot which is based there. Link: http://www.theitdepot.com/products-Graphic+Cards_C45.ht...

Both cards are equivalent, and if the 6850 is readily available, i say go for it! :D 

Dealers usually keep talking BS. Check the IT Depot. LGA 775 is still available in Delhi...

All my friends have comps from roughly the same time period that i have (or earlier) so they all would have 1.0 or 1.1. the only dude with a 2.0 card has a 2.0 bus.

btw what do you use for cooling your processor? stock fans (like me :(  )? what're your temps like? my CPU idles around 50, with a delta of 5*C...
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August 27, 2011 9:47:10 AM

I have to check more thoroughly for the LGA775 stuff ... and i might be gettin the HD 6850 on Monday if its readily available .
I use the stock cooler and the idle temps for the first two cores are around 40-45'C and for the rem two cores are around 30-35'C
:) 
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a b U Graphics card
August 27, 2011 10:01:07 AM

Coimbatore seems pleasant...temperature is a big prob in delhi...
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August 27, 2011 11:35:02 AM

ojas said:
Coimbatore seems pleasant...temperature is a big prob in delhi...

Have you been here ?
Anyways , thanks for the compliment ;) 
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a b U Graphics card
August 28, 2011 6:22:10 AM

Dad has, i haven't been to Tamil Nadu yet...been to Karnataka and Andhra, i think that's as much of the south i've seen...
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a b U Graphics card
August 30, 2011 3:38:04 PM

Radeon 5770 uses ~4GB/s of PCIe bandwidth, i guess the 6850 would use around 4.5-5.5.
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August 30, 2011 3:53:37 PM

ojas said:
Radeon 5770 uses ~4GB/s of PCIe bandwidth, i guess the 6850 would use around 4.5-5.5.

You bought the card ?
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August 30, 2011 4:12:39 PM

Quote:
Radeon 5770 uses ~4GB/s of PCIe bandwidth, i guess the 6850 would use around 4.5-5.5.


What are you talking about?
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a b U Graphics card
August 30, 2011 7:02:33 PM

^^No asked my friend to benchmark it.

^I'm talking about the Sandra Video Memory Bandwidth bench. It has a graph called Data Transfer bandwidth, which i'm assuming is the volume of data it can push across the PCIe interface, since overclocking/underclocking has no effect on this. My 9600GT always pushes about 2.09GB/s on my DG35EC mobo, my friend's 5770 was doing 4GB/s on a H67 mobo.

Purpose of this was to see if graphics cards can actually saturate the PCIe 1.1 bandwidth available to them.

Is my assumption valid?
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August 30, 2011 7:34:15 PM

First, a synthetic benchmark is mostly meaningless. 5000 "bungholio marks" doesn't mean anything if you only get 20FPS in your games. Second, synthetic apps can stress your system in ways that a real program never would. Who cares if you have 100MBps of bandwidth if a game would never use above 50?

I would say your assumption is wrong. Because you tested with a synthetic app its simply maxing the bus. Because your board has 1.0 slots and his has 2.x, naturally his score is twice as high. I think the 9600GT is a 2.x card, put your card in his system and watch the score go from 2.09 to 4. Just because the bus can handle it doesn't mean the card can draw/demand it.
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a b U Graphics card
September 2, 2011 4:56:09 PM

well, check this out, the GP (general purpose computing) bandwidth on my card was around 6GB/s, and his was around 16GB/s.

For another friend of mine, using a 560M on a sandy bridge platform, the bandwidth for graphics was the same 4GB/s but the GP bandwidth was around 8 or 9GB/s.

Both use PCIe 2.0, one manages 16 and the other 9. I get 6 in the same bench.

And the only game in which i get 20 fps is crysis.
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