Network/Internet 3-Router Issues/Questions

Hello,

Because of the number of computers at various parts of my home, I have resorted to having a network setup with 3 routers. Currently my network is set up in the way shown in the image below, should be easy to understand:


Basically, I have the cable modem connected to a linksys router, then that linksys router is connected to a d-link router and another linksys router.

The inner layer routers. Since the inner routers do not need to really communicate with each other, I have them both set as 192.168.1.1. Of course, the outer linksys router should have a different IP, so I have it as 192.168.0.1.

Here are my problems...
Problem 1: Very often, the internet will cut out. It seems to be very unstable. For my ISP (COX High Speed Internet), it is generally reliable and fast. However it seems inside my home network, it will cut out a lot at random times for maybe period of 1 to 5 seconds at a time. This causes net surfing and uploading issues since it will cut off the transfer and end up corrupting a file in the middle of the transfer.

Problem 2: If there is a short power outage or a change in one of the router settings of any kind, I would have to reset all the routers. Not only that, I have to start them up in a specific order. I have to start the cable modem and the 2 inner routers up and wait for the cable modem to connect to the internet. THEN I can plug in/turn on the outer router. This is the only way that will allow my internet to work.

I've spent a lot of time and money trying to fix this problem, from switching routers, to getting a new cable modem, which seems to make it better. However, before I move on and spend more money into this I've decided to ask around on these forums.

I have read around and found that crossover network cables are required to connect between the routers. However, I think the cables I have connecting the routers right now are just straight through cables. Does routers connected together with straight through cables even work? Or can I assume because my internet somewhat works, that I'm using crossover cables already?

So my questions are, before I start making/buying some crossover cables:
1. Do I need a crossover cable between the cable modem and the outer router as well?
2. If I do not use crossover cables, would the network even work? Or would it just be unreliable like the problem I have now?
3. Do i need crossover cables between a router and a hub? (Currently I have a hub connected to one of the routers as well.)

Greatly appreciated!

Why do you have 2 routers on the same IP network? You can't have IP network 192.168.1.x twice, unless one of the two routers is powered off when the other one is active.

You shouldn't require crossover cables anywhere. Your addressing scheme should definitely cause problems.

Are the inner routers connected to the Linksys router via their Internet port or via a LAN port? If via the Internet port, then they should have a static IP address like 192.168.0.2 and 192.168.0.3. Then it doesn't matter if they have the same network range as long as hosts connected to the inner Linksys router don't need access to hosts on the D-link router. If they do, then use 192.168.1.0/24 and 192.168.2.0/24 and everything will work properly. You will also be able to reset a router without having to worry about the other routers.

Are the routers connected as follows?

Outer Linksys router: Internet port to modem (probably a dynamic IP address)
Inner Linksys router Internet port to Outer Linksys router LAN port (192.168.0.1 static IP address)
Inner D-Link router Internet port to Outer Linksys router LAN port (192.168.0.2 static IP address)

IP addresses 192.168.0.1, 192.168.0.2 and 192.168.0.3 are not in the DHCP range on the Outer Linksys router.

DHCP should be disabled only on the Internet port of the internal routers.

The Internet IP address of the internal routers has to be static; otherwise you'll run into issues when resetting a router. You shouldn't let internal routers acquire an IP address from the outer router.

Note: The internal routers should have IP address 192.168.1.1 as their default gateway.

Ok, got it, so I should disable DHCP for the outer linksys router. From that point on it means I have to manually assign ip addresses in the settings for each inner router?

I guess i don't clearly understand how DHCP works. ^^

So...for the outside router (the one directly connected to the cable modem with IP 192.168.1.1):
- I should disable Local DHCP Server

For the inside routers (the 2 routers connected to the outside router with IPs 192.168.2.1 and 192.168.3.1):
- Enable local DHCP server

Then what? I thought disabling DHCP would require any computer or router connected to it to manually set their IP address for the outer router. In other words, I would have to go into the D-link router settings (192.168.2.1) and manually set its IP to 192.168.1.xxx. Then I would have to do the same for the other inner linksys router settings (192.168.3.1) and manually set its IP to a 192.168.1.xxx IP that is different from the one I just set for the dlink router?

Or is that completely wrong?

It is wrong.

The OP didn't say that no computers are connected to the outer router and DHCP doesn't add to the complexity. All he has to do is make sure that DHCP starts at an IP address higher than 192.168.1.3. I usually start DHCP at 100 or higher.

Thanks sk1939. your reply is finally a straightforward answer on what I wanted to know.

However, GhislainG is right. I sometimes do have computers connected to the outside router. In which case, it would be safe to have the following settings with all DHCP enabled?
Outside Linksys Router - 192.168.1.1 - from .10 to .90
Inside Linksys Router - 192.168.1.2 - from .91 to .170
Inside Dlink Router - 192.168.1.3 - from .171 to .254

After this thread, I don't think I fully understand how DHCP works anymore. lol ><

As of now, my internet is working, although I'm still having some random slowdowns and 1-5 second disconnects. Don't think it's caused by the IP assignment issue, does it?

That's a good point, sk1939.

My routers and modem are actually within 2 feet of each other, the network cables connecting between all 4 of these routers and modems are crossover cables.

In the end, I might just disable DHCP for the outer router like you mentioned earlier. This just means I have to manually set the IP in the PC settings for the PCs that are connected to that router right?

Actually, is this even the reason my internet is cutting a few seconds at a time?


Edit::a more clear example of my problem I'm having. When I submitted this reply, it loaded only the top part of the tom's hardware page, and I had to wait about 10-15 seconds before the rest of the page started loading. At the same time, i was refreshing my yahoo mail page, which also seemed to not load during the same time. I am assuming during this time my internet was cut off again and it was reestablishing the connection to the sites.

I have Cox cable intenet.



I actually took that speed test just now. I've done a few, and every time I've took the test my internet didn't seem to have any problems, which is kinda odd, kinda like my internet knows when to make itself look good and when it doesn't have to care.

Although I think the packet loss for the pingtest is the problem I'm talking about. I ran the test a few times, and the packet loss jumps from 0% up to 3%.

Having a crossover cable between the cable modem and the router won't cause any problems though right? I mean, I'm on the internet now, obviously, posting on this forum after all. ^^

Well, since you mentioned it, yeah, the crossover cables i'm using are hand made. Using the right tools though. Maybe I should try getting some from the store. =/ Other than that, I am really out of ideas.

I'm sure I could try just disconnecting all the outer routers and just have a simple cable modem > router > pc setup with hand made cables and store bought cables and see if I still have the problem.

Thanks sk1939

After a few days of watching my internet closely, I've come to realize it probably isn't a router/modem problem, but my ISP problem all along.

Internet disconnects seem to happen the most at night after 9PM.
Internet disconnects seem to happen during the weekends as well.
It rarely happens during the day on weekdays.

So now my conclusion is, someone on my block is hogging the internet after they get home from work every workday, and hogging all weekend.

Considering switching to Fios internet.