Where's the AMD mobos w/PCI Ex. 3.0 promised would be here by now?

[josejones]

Where's the AMD motherboards with PCI Ex. 3.0 support promised would be here by now?

August 3, 2010

PCI Express 3.0: On Motherboards By This Time Next Year?
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/pci-express-3.0-pci-sig,2695.html

I'm specifically interested in motherboards for AMD. I've not even heard AMD mention PCI Express 3.0 - why not?

What is the hold up?

 

[jaquith]

The new AMD 9XX chipset clearly doesn't support PCIe 3.0, and the only AMD PCIe 3.0 upcoming offering, supposedly, are the HD 7000 series GPUs. My best observation is that the AM3+ won't offer PCIe 3.0, and supposedly the 2nd generation Socket FM2 will offer PCIe 3.0.

The Opteron 4200 and Opteron 6200 are slated in 2012 to have PCIe 3.0 controllers, but no other info is available.

If you want PCIe 3.0 then ALL components MUST support it: GPU, MOBO/Chipset and CPU. The quickest path to get ALL 3 is the SB-E on LGA 2011, 32-lanes of PCIe 3.0, with a 'new' PCIe 3.0 GPU; the release dates are October/November 2011. Until the current GPUs are considerably faster 1.5X~2.0+X the PCIe 3.0 will offer little to no benefits. Currently, the GTX 580 barely saturates 8x PCIe 2.x much less 16x PCIe 2.x or translated 4x PCIe 3.0 much less 8x PCIe 3.0 and forget 16x PCIe 3.0x.

PCIe 4 rumor mill -> http://www.tomshardware.com/news/pci-express-pcie-3.0-4.0,13022.html

 

[josejones]

Good post, jaquith.

I was disappointed with the 990 mobos as they're still stuck in PCI 2.0 and Hyper-transport 3.0 with only a few having rev 3.1. I figured HT 4.0 would've been out by now too. I guess I'll be waiting for the 10xx mobo's?

"If you want PCIe 3.0 then ALL components MUST support it"

Yep, that's what I want - a "true" or complete next generation platform. My system is okay for now but gaming is't. I simply refuse to waste my money on stuff that will soon be obsolete. I'd rather wait. My PC will last me another couple years.

I had heard that PCI started working on PCI 4.0, which is good to know. Of course, it'll be 5 years or so before we see it.

So, AMD's Bulldozer ... Opteron 4200 and Opteron 6200 will be released September 26, 2011

http://www.cpu-wars.com/2011/08/amd-to-launch-next-generation-opteron.html

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2390410,00.asp

 

[jaquith]

I quickly glanced and saw "C2012" for Opteron 4200 and "G2012" for Opteron 6200 and my 'mind' saw 2012 vs the socket.

The upgrade we need the most is 'SATA4' the current SSD's have fully saturated the SATA3 bandwidth, and PCIe based SSD's are the only choice for a single solution.

 

[josejones]

I just wanted to add to the record here ... I just looked it up and according to the 'HyperTransport Consortium' website HT 3.0 has been out since 2006 and rev. 3.1 has been out since 2008.

http://www.hypertransport.org/default.cfm?page=Technology

Plus, PCI Ex 2.0 has been around since Jan of 2007.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express#PCI_Express_2.0

It really is time for HT 4.0 and PCI Ex 3.0.

But, you're right, we certainly need SATA 4. I just found some news at SATA you may find interesting ...

http://www.sata-io.org

SATA + PCI Express = SATA Express
http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/sata_pci_express_sata_express

I guess SATA 3 has been out since 08 or so.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_ATA

 

[josejones]

I'm curious to find out if the new XBox 720 console will include a mobo with PCI Express 3.0? Surely the XBox 720 would include USB 3.0?

 

[trogdor796]

Don't count on it Jose. I wouldn't expect Microsoft(any console manufacturer for that matter) to spend extra money including stuff like that. Chances are if you asked most console gamers/users what USB 3.0 or PCI Express 3.0 is most wouldn't even know.

 

[jaquith]

Don't know, but it'll bomb unless it has Blu-Ray. The 'next' Xbox won't even be unveiled until 2012. I just hope the damn thing runs cooler...

 

[trogdor796]

If mircosoft doesn't include Blu-Ray then they honestly don't deserve to earn any money from it. Their choice to not include it with the 360 was horrendous, I'd like to know what those companies who supported HD-DVD are thinking now lol.

 

[jaquith]

Microsoft 'was' a backer of 'HD-DVD' with HDi instead of Sony's BD-J -- oopsy! IMO - had the Xbox 360 shipped with an internal 'HD-DVD' then BR might have been the Betamax instead it's visa-versa. Similarly, I think Nintendo was dumb with that mini-DVD and later with the WII lack of DVD movie support short of a Wii homebrew hack. --- All examples of shortsighted pencil pushers vs visionaries.

There are only few 'Console' games that get my attention and then only where there's no PC counterpart. IF Sony came up with a few crazy good PS3/PS4 only games that could really do harm on the 'next' Xbox. --- it's what I would do

 

[josejones]

Thanks trogdor796. Scary thought but, you may be right. That would really suck if the new XBox did not include PCI 3 & USB 3 - because including them would simply be apart of a new, next generation platform, right? That's what I'm most interested in is a true, fully next generation platform.

"Out with the old, in with the new"

You really think XBox will bomb if it doesn't include Blu-Ray? That's not really as important to me since I don't have any Blu-Ray DVD's. Or, are you just talking about the capability for Blu-Ray? It certainly would be sweet if it would at least play Blu-Ray.

 

[trogdor796]

I'm talking about the capacity for Blu-Ray, but also the ability to play the discs. You might now care about it, but think of the millions out there who have a full library full of Blu-Ray discs, only to be told the next xbox wont support it.

And with the graphics for games getting better and better, the capacity of Blu-Ray is more important. Look right now at some of the games for xbox360 that are on multiple discs because it can't fit on one. This is never the case with PS3 due to Blu-Ray.

But I would think Microsoft would use it. There's no other logical format that they would use.

 

[josejones]

Well, you're absolutely correct:

"...with the graphics for games getting better and better, the capacity of Blu-Ray is more important....some of the games for xbox360 that are on multiple discs because it can't fit on one."

Just seems like basic common sense at this point. Who'd be silly enough to buy a new XBox 720 for $500 if it doesn't include Blue-Ray capabilities? Might as well just stick with the 360.

 

[jaquith]

Don't know, but it'll bomb unless it has Blu-Ray. The 'next' Xbox won't even be unveiled until 2012. I just hope the damn thing runs cooler...

No arguments from me! Since Microsoft will be eating crow that typically translates into $ money, and probably expalins why the Xbox hasn't come out with a new Console for quite some time. Sony costs vs Microsoft's 'retail'

I assume it will support 3D and other newer technologies.

 

[josejones]

I'd like to see some quad-core GPU's with PCI Express 3.0 in the near future.

What are the chances of the new XBox 720 having a serious GPU?

 

[killkillkill]

Is there actually any pci-e 3.0 graphics cards out yet?

 

[jaquith]

^Nope. I'm certain they're in the works but I haven't seen an PCIe 3.0 GPUs for sale - neither gaming or professional.

The closest I've heard of are the AMD HD 7000 series GPUs coming out this year to coincide with the MOBO's with PCIe 3.0, but I'm certin there's some nVidia e.g. 'GTX 600 series' - http://news.softpedia.com/news/Nvidia-GTX-600-to-Be-Released-in-Q4-2011-Using-28nm-Manufacturing-Node-Rumors-Say-180025.shtml

 

[killkillkill]

So in that case it matters not thata there are no boards with pci-e 3.0 out yet. Until there is theres no point to a pci-e 3 board.

I reckon when the boards come out with it on, then we will see cards supporting it come along.

 

[josejones]

That article came out in January, 2011. It appears that the Kepler, Nvidia GTX 600-series GPU's are already delayed a couple months and may not be out until 2012.
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvidia-gpu-kepler-fermi-update,13188.html

Here are the newist GPU's I'm aware of ... they're both dual-core but, the 6990 is only PCI 2.1 while the 590 is still just PCI 2.0. Are they even trying?

GeForce GTX 590 vs Radeon HD 6990
http://www.hwcompare.com/9822/geforce-gtx-590-vs-radeon-hd-6990/

I wonder how long it will take them to come out with a quad-core GPU with PCI Express 3.0 capabilities??? By the time they do, I suppose DirectX 12 might be out? My guess is 2020 - LOL with all the set backs and delays over the last couple years.

There won't be any PCI Express 3.0 products until motherboards are equipped with PCI gen 3. So, they need to get cracking on the new next generation mobos.

 

[jaquith]

Release Dates - the only guarantee is the day you can buy one. I recall the LGA 2011 release date debate - I happened to be correct and some very good members insisted 2012 - neither of us knew for sure and relied on our sources

If you read or reread my first post and other posts I've had on this subject -- the BIG gains & benefits to PCIe 3.0 are not the GPUs themselves but the Chipsets and peripherals performance. The 'shared' bandwidth 'today' is a big problem with 'Swiss-Army' MOBO for USB, SATA, add-on Chips, etc and to a much lesser degree the 'GPU' itself. {if eSATA this then SATA that is disabled or Marvell SATA with x1 PCIe on SATA3 delivering 360~380MB/s vs ~600MB/s as 'expected'.

IMO - I expect very little to no GPU improvement by PCIe 2.x vs PCIe 3.0 alone. Not to be confused with a Faster GPU being Faster regardless to PCIe type. I mean if you example had: GTX 590 (PCIe 2.1) on a PCIe 2.0 x16 compared to GTX 590 (PCIe 3.0) on a PCIe 3.0 x16 = same performance and any differences would be <1%~0% and otherwise within a 'Margin of Error'. The reason is simple, the GTX 590 barely saturates the x8 and cannot saturate x16 PCIe 2.0.

What we needed 'yesterday' is 'SATA4' or whatever name sticks; the SSD's are and have been fully saturating the SATA3. Yes, I've seen the 'SATA Express' from 'SATA I-O'.

 

[josejones]

"the BIG gains & benefits to PCIe 3.0 are not the GPUs themselves but the Chipsets and peripherals performance."

Yes, I'm with ya. This isn't really about GPU's, for me, it's simply about a new, next generation platform. I agree with you on 'SATA 4' too.

Looky what I just found:

AMD Radeon HD 7000 GPU Series to Feature PCI Express 3.0 Support

That article was written back in July, 2011, but I never heard anything about it. I would have to assume that PCIe 3 motherboards are in the making if AMD's Radeon 7000 GPU's are already set to feature PCIe 3 and are coming out in just a few more months ???

 

[josejones]

Well, the news above pretty much guarantees that the new XBox 720 will use PCIe 3 as a new, next generation platform. It would be utterly absurd not to - equal to if not worse than not including Blue-Ray capability.

The new AMD Radeon HD 7000 Series GPU's are said to begin becoming available in Q4 2011 starting in October. While the new Bulldozer CPU is said to come out Sept 26th.

 

[jaquith]

The HD 7000 release is lining-up with the SB-E/LGA 2011 at least so it seems.

 

[blazorthon]

We already have PCI-E 3.0 motherboards. We don't have any PCI-E 3.0 card for it but MSI does have PCI-E 3.0 Z68 motherboards right now.

http://www.msi.com/product/mb/Z68A-GD80--G3-.html

 

[jaquith]

We know.

The topic is "I'm specifically interested in motherboards for AMD" with PCIe 3.0.

Frankly, the PCIe 3.0 Z68 out now are pretty much useless, the PCIe is limited to the GPU lanes which requires both a PCIe 3.0 GPU and CPU. So sure buy the MOBO and toss your CPU and GPU and even then the high-end PCIe 2.1 GPU's barely saturate x8 lanes of PCIe and aren't even close to touching x16 now.

The 'real' advantage to PCIe 3.0 are to the peripherals {Chipset, add-on chipset(s), SATA, USB, etc} and to a much lesser degree the GPU.

But if you look-up a couple posts ago I already spelled it out...