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Help, poor 460 SLi performance

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August 29, 2010 1:45:33 AM

I posted a recent thread, http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/296647-33-help , where after about a day of trouble shooting I found out I got a faulty SLi bridge. I called up MSI and what do you know, I got a bona-fide person who said; "Really? We'll just have to fix that, address please?" In under 5 minutes they sent me a new one. ( MSI Costumer service rocked ) So I am setting here without a bridge atm, waiting for the one in the mail, but still trying to benchmark compare, the comparisons are to this thread, right here on tom's ( the reason I got to 460 fermi's ) http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-460-sli... and so far, they have been bad... about ten frames less then the 480 on avg and around 20 to the SLi set up in that link I am comparing to.

I built my PC to overclock, normally I don't but to match the threads PC I did,
specs are: 955 Deneb, OC to 4ghz
8gigs ddr3 @ 1600 7-7-7-21
in SLi : GIGABYTE GV-N460OC-1GI GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 <( No OC. )>
MoBo MSI NF750-G55 AM3 NVIDIA nForce 750a SLI HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard

I am getting 20645 in 3dmark, Thomas Soderstrom's Benchmark Results: 3DMark Vantage, gpu score 24642
(link: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-460-sli... )
Dirt 2 I am averaging 77fps in 1920 x 1080 ultra quality 4xaa, Thomas Soderstrom's Benchmark Results: DiRT 2 (DX11) avg 105.4 4xaa
(link: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-460-sli... )
S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Call of Pripyat I received 76.1 in day, 72 in night, rain 76.2, sun shafts 51.4, total avg = 76.1+72+76.2+51.4/4= < 68.92 > 1920 x1080 ultra EFDL (dx11)
Thomas Soderstrom's Benchmark Results: S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Call Of Pripyat (DX11) avg 81.9 Ultra EFDL 1920 x 1080
(link: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-460-sli... )

So I was thinking it's my not having an SLi bridge thats causing me do get poor avg's, just be patient.... Then I read this,
quote
"If you are running drivers 182.xx or newer, the bridge is no longer needed.
That said, who doesn't like the look of the bridge anyway? I like the bridge because it keeps the cards uniform and they don't slouch as much in the slots."
on this thread, (link: http://www.evga.com/forumsarchive/printable.asp?m=10077... )
So since I am running driver version 258.56, I am a little worried lol... I spent $560 on the MoBo and cards and with these results i clearly could have got more bang for my buck...
Bottom line, I am asking if it's the lack of the SLi bridge, or something I am doing wrong?
a little worried here lol.

More about : poor 460 sli performance

a b Î Nvidia
August 29, 2010 4:57:44 AM

then it's time to use that SLI bridge, it won't hurt you to buy a cheap bridge...
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August 29, 2010 6:38:00 AM

Yes the bridge is definitely the problem as PCI-E express slots can only do so much with current generation cards, after a certain point of computational power you just lose performance radically
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August 29, 2010 7:11:57 AM

Sweet, cause I just ran Star Craft II and was getting 20 frames on ultra and that mad me a little sad lol.. and It wasn't even a unit heavy mission... >,<
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a b Î Nvidia
August 29, 2010 9:25:16 AM

hmm,try SLI bridge but SC2 doesn't benefit from either SLI/CF AFAIK.But let us know if you got a FPS boost.
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August 29, 2010 10:17:27 AM

I will, and feel free to coment more anyone~
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a b Î Nvidia
August 31, 2010 9:34:31 PM

Go to any local shop or eBay and get your self a bridge. I did the other day and I got a 4 slot sli bridge and two 3 slot crossfire bridges for a dollar each (got lucky).
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September 2, 2010 12:26:55 AM

Jack64 said:
This is what I get on Vantage with 460's sli'ed using the bridge.

http://service.futuremark.com/resultAnalyzer.action?res...



Here are my results without the bridge, I did one overclocked:





and one with factory preset, no SLi bridge aswell:



On a side note, my CPU OC was only @ 3.8ghz during those benchmarks.

And I would go out and buy a bridge but right now, well long story short and no drama, I really can't afford it right now, so I am just going to wait it out for the replacment in the mail. * I called around and the lowest priced bridge in my area $15.99, couldn't believe it, I may look some up on e-bay or amazon, only found one on newegg and it was like $19.99*
I will re-post my benchmarks, ALL my benchmarks when I have a working bridge, not too many Gigabyte gtx 460 SLi benchmark scores floating around on the net, might as well post mine ^^

btw I read the max GPU temp for the GTX 460 was 105c is that correct? if anyone knows and could provide a link, I would love to know for sure.
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September 2, 2010 12:40:49 AM

Sweet so even with a high overclock these cards run cool, good job Gigabyte. I would love to see some other GTX 460 SLi overclocks! And thank you Helltech for that link! :) 
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September 3, 2010 2:14:12 AM

I got the bridge, and it's working! Will repost all my benchmarks tonight, or tomorrow~ :bounce: 
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September 4, 2010 12:46:09 AM

Oldirty said:
I posted a recent thread, http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/296647-33-help , where after about a day of trouble shooting I found out I got a faulty SLi bridge. I called up MSI and what do you know, I got a bona-fide person who said; "Really? We'll just have to fix that, address please?" In under 5 minutes they sent me a new one. ( MSI Costumer service rocked ) So I am setting here without a bridge atm, waiting for the one in the mail, but still trying to benchmark compare, the comparisons are to this thread, right here on tom's ( the reason I got to 460 fermi's ) http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-460-sli... and so far, they have been bad... about ten frames less then the 480 on avg and around 20 to the SLi set up in that link I am comparing to.

I built my PC to overclock, normally I don't but to match the threads PC I did,
specs are: 955 Deneb, OC to 4ghz
8gigs ddr3 @ 1600 7-7-7-21
in SLi : GIGABYTE GV-N460OC-1GI GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 <( No OC. )>
MoBo MSI NF750-G55 AM3 NVIDIA nForce 750a SLI HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard

I am getting 20645 in 3dmark, Thomas Soderstrom's Benchmark Results: 3DMark Vantage, gpu score 24642
(link: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-460-sli... )
Dirt 2 I am averaging 77fps in 1920 x 1080 ultra quality 4xaa, Thomas Soderstrom's Benchmark Results: DiRT 2 (DX11) avg 105.4 4xaa
(link: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-460-sli... )
S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Call of Pripyat I received 76.1 in day, 72 in night, rain 76.2, sun shafts 51.4, total avg = 76.1+72+76.2+51.4/4= < 68.92 > 1920 x1080 ultra EFDL (dx11)
Thomas Soderstrom's Benchmark Results: S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Call Of Pripyat (DX11) avg 81.9 Ultra EFDL 1920 x 1080
(link: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-460-sli... )

So I was thinking it's my not having an SLi bridge thats causing me do get poor avg's, just be patient.... Then I read this,
quote
"If you are running drivers 182.xx or newer, the bridge is no longer needed.
That said, who doesn't like the look of the bridge anyway? I like the bridge because it keeps the cards uniform and they don't slouch as much in the slots."
on this thread, (link: http://www.evga.com/forumsarchive/printable.asp?m=10077... )
So since I am running driver version 258.56, I am a little worried lol... I spent $560 on the MoBo and cards and with these results i clearly could have got more bang for my buck...
Bottom line, I am asking if it's the lack of the SLi bridge, or something I am doing wrong?
a little worried here lol.






Here are my results with a bridge,
I am getting 21517 in 3dmark, Thomas Soderstrom's Benchmark Results: 3DMark Vantage, gpu score 24642, and it's only about 1000 more than it was before.
Dirt 2 I am averaging 81.4 fps in 1920 x 1080 ultra quality 4xaa, Thomas Soderstrom's Benchmark Results: DiRT 2 (DX11) avg 105.4 4xaa, thats still a pretty big difference, and only a 4.4 difference without the bridge.
S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Call of Pripyat, 88.7 in day, 87.2 at night, 93 in rain 56.1 with sun shafts, new average 81.25, thats a 12.33 difference, and about the same as the benchmarks I compared to by Thomas Soderstrom's thread.
With the AvP I got, Average Frame Time: 18.4ms Average FPS: 54.4, Thomas Soderstrom's results where 46.3. ( I won that one! SWEET. lol >.> )

Now I also posted poor peformance on SCII, I was averaging around 20 frames on the mission "Smash and Grab!" well, I found the "Sweet spot" that was eating up my frames and got it down to 15fps!!!!!
Here are some pics with the FPS,





Now, lets try disabling SLi...





and thats just on the spot of the map, everywhere else I am averaging around 40-50, with SLi disabled.


Also my cards are stock 715 clock, thats faster than Thomas Soderstrom's cards where, Sparkle GeForce GTX 460 1 GB (x2 for SLI) 700 MHz GPU, GDDR5, so thats another thing that makes me go, whaaa? why am I doing so much less than those cards in 3dmark Vantage...


So all in all, I am not to happy with the 460 SLi, if I could go back and buy again, I would have got a GTX 480, bought another one when I could afford it and the newer version of drivers were out lol. I been all over the nvidia website and this performance could be do to bad drivers, and also it's do to the fact that some programs just aren't made for SLi, so far the Blizzard games I play, besides the older ones, run consistently better without SLi, so I am not unhappy with the hardware, at this point I am thinking it's just drivers and software, and I bet this small bout of buyers remorse will go away with some time.
Here is just one thread from nvidia http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=179056&st=... , and if you look around there's quit a few more, again it may just be the drivers, hell it may be my settings, but I overall am not getting what I thought I was going to get. But they are still GREAT CARDS. Don't let my thread and my results hinder your buying or choices to much, it could be user error. They run VERY cool, so over clocking is easy and keeps well under the GPU temp threshold, on my cards at least.
Again most likely it's something I missed in the nvidia control panel, or just some software issue's or maybe the next driver will fix some of the shotty performance in SCII and WoW.


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September 4, 2010 11:10:28 AM

On the nvidia forums someone said maybe one of the PCI-E slots is 8x and causing the lower frames, i bought the board from newegg, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168... , here is just part of the description, the only part containing info on the PCI-E slots,
"" The integrated NVIDIA GeForce 8200 chipset can be augmented with two PCI Express 2.0 x16 graphics cards to achieve SLI-linked performance at a fraction of the price. "" Then when you click on details, it says, PCI Express 2.0 x16: 2.
I went to MSI's site, and it says this,
• 2 PCI Express x16 slots with x16 operation (PCI Express Bus SPEC V2.0 compliant)
• When 2 PCI Express x16 slots are all installed, the PCIE x 16 lanes will auto arrange form x16/ x0 to x8/ x8.
I bought this board on the word of newegg that it was 16x on both in SLi.... wrong >,< Do you think thats a little false advertisement? Idk but I am definitely calling them tomorrow...

*edit for grammar
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a b Î Nvidia
September 4, 2010 3:09:53 PM

No,dual 8x doesn't have much of a difference with dual 16x.
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September 4, 2010 3:26:12 PM

I read around after the post, I am only losing like 2% to 4%, but at this time thats the only thing I can think of. If you have any ideas please reply, I still would like to know why the gpu scores are down from tom's bench's.
Right now I am trying to figure out why I can't up my voltages in MSI Afterburner so I can get theese stable at 900 mhz, theese cards run VERY cool OC ^^
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a b Î Nvidia
September 4, 2010 3:48:17 PM

You might try overclocking your gpu's , your can go right up to 825 core without touching voltage. That should give you a nice bump in performance.
Besides that:

Your not going to like the answer.
TH rig was a overclocked Intel X48 rig, VS your Nvidia chipset, which is probably just not as optimal right now.
Do you have the newest bios and motherboard drivers from the motherboard vendors web site ?
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September 4, 2010 4:23:15 PM

All the drivers are up to date and current, and it could be that < my mobo is a budget mobo >, but why would the gpu scores be higher, can the chipset help out that much and hinder gpu performance? I am always learning here ^^

And my highest OC right now is 850mhz stable, but thanks to some links by OvrClkr on some other posts of mine here at Tom's, I am now updating my v-cards bios to up the 1.087 volt lock to like 1.2... i am never going that high on the volts as I am air cooled, but will be going to try and mimic 920 MHz @1,150v, on my card with stock air cooled they should only reach about 78c max, plus I have a Coolermaster HAF case witch should help keeping these all ready cool cards cooler. At this point I am trying to reach the threads gpu score, at 850mhz the gpu still only scored 23465 in vantage, thats 150 mhz faster than Tom's Sparkles, and still not as high, you think it's the chipset?


*edited for clarification
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September 4, 2010 4:33:34 PM

After reading my warranty I decided not to flash them lol. So for now, I am going to see what I can get with what I have =)
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a b Î Nvidia
September 4, 2010 4:40:07 PM

I would not flash your bios either.
Artifacting is usually your memory clock. The most I can set mine is 1050 or 2100 on the Afterburner slider, stock is 900.
Do you have cool n quiet enabled or disabled in your bios ?
This has happened to a few users, when enabled, the system does not wake from saving energy and does not deliver full performance. You could try disabling that in bios and see if your performed picks up.
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September 5, 2010 3:01:21 AM

It is enabled, I will definitely turn that off, I am at this moment installing 2 new HDD's in raid 0 so I may be a day or two before I get back to tweaking on the GPU's
thank you very much for the tip notty22
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September 5, 2010 3:35:32 AM

Oldirty let us know if that fixed it because i am thinking about doing the gtx 460 in SLI. I have yet to try out any SLI so its a big step for me.
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September 5, 2010 5:18:03 AM

Well I am on the raid setup now, so after tonight I will have my benchmark tools re-installed and will do some more tests with the raid, that will NOT improve gpu scores, but this we will now know for sure, latest drivers, clean install. I am also going to make sure cool n quiet is disabled in the bios when i re-run.
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September 5, 2010 5:37:13 AM

on a side note: lol looking at my times on the posts it took me a little over an hour to completely re-install windows and my drivers ^^
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a b Î Nvidia
September 5, 2010 6:05:13 AM

Ok, I read on another forum about a bug with Starcraft II, gtx 460's are downclocking to 400 during gameplay.
You need to go in to the driver , under 3d settings
manage 3d settings
power management mode
change to
prefer maximum performance
Believe that will help that.
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September 5, 2010 6:45:12 AM

Sweet will check that out after i re-install it
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a b Î Nvidia
September 5, 2010 6:54:05 AM

To backup notty22, I had to do this for a couple games with my GTX260. Once I went SLI my GTX260 would barely ever ramp up to 3D clocks.

You can easily check this with a performance log on GPUZ or MSI Afterburner also.
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September 5, 2010 7:10:31 AM

I had the exact same issue with my Palit gtx 460s. My MSI SLi bridge wasn't working and I read that there were several faulty SLi bridges released by MSI, so I went out and bought an EVGA SLi bridge and had the exact same issue. My issue was a bit different there was really bad screen tearing and not very good performance (No it wasn't a V-sync triple buffer issue). Anyways one of the cards just gave up and wouldn't become recognized or anything, so I refunded them back to Newegg and just bought a gtx 480 :|.
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September 5, 2010 7:21:35 AM

Definitely enabling it to prefer maximum performance. thx again for another tip ^^ I should have SCII re-installed by tomorrow so I will post f it helps that for sure.
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September 6, 2010 12:24:47 AM

Tried SCII with prefer maximum performance enabled, still messes up on smash and grab, disabling SLi atm seems to be the only fix for it, fir me ATM, but i am sure this is probly a temporary software issue. I did find this post however about 5 mins ago on the nvidia forums and will be trying it http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=176006&hl=... there is a beta driver, http://developer.nvidia.com/object/opengl_driver.html , I am going to test it and I will post later.


on a side note : the game still runs pretty good with one card ^^
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a c 172 Î Nvidia
September 6, 2010 12:49:20 AM

This isn't really a "question" thread anymore is it?
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September 6, 2010 12:57:47 AM

Not really lol.. where do I move it and how?
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a c 172 Î Nvidia
September 6, 2010 1:04:35 AM

Oldirty said:
Not really lol.. where do I move it and how?

You won't be able to move it anywhere but either choose a best answer so I can close this thread and you can start another one as a discussion or I can change this one to a discussion but then you won't be able to award a best answer to anyone who has posted.
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September 6, 2010 1:17:02 AM

Change it to a discussion if you could please ^^



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a c 172 Î Nvidia
September 6, 2010 1:19:34 AM

Oldirty said:
Change it to a discussion if you could please ^^

Are you still seeing the option to choose a best answer?
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September 6, 2010 1:31:41 AM

Nope tyvm.
^^
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a c 172 Î Nvidia
September 6, 2010 1:39:49 AM

Oldirty said:
Nope tyvm.
^^

;) 
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September 7, 2010 7:01:11 PM

Dad's been ill in the hospital so I have not been n the cpu much, will re-post how the beta drivers are going when I have a chance.
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September 8, 2010 11:33:54 PM

Okay I tried the beta driver, SCII still got 20 fps in the mission "Smash and Grab" , went back to the old drivers.

Played BFBC2, avg fps is 60, vsync of course, so all good there until mission 2, on the back of the truck, mass stutering, and in mission 3 in the PTB, same thing but even worse, disabling SLi fixed it, but droped my fps to 34-45, and a $250 card... /sigh

heres yet another problem encountered, Dragon Age origins, one of my favorite games, was playing it and avg- 60 fps, sweet.
Now the fun part, scaling is about 50% highest was 51, lowest was a drop to 14% and I even seen one GPU drop to 4% and the other to 0. Last part of the original story line, wel i thought I would drop a few pics,


incase the pics to small, it's 18 frames. Only happened when I got to the castle in the last part of the original game.

Posted that on Nvidia forums, and they got deleted. Idk why ether. No profanity was used, maybe because I had 2 sigs? idk.. but i tried to re-post and when I click post new thread, it just sends me back to the forums...

I feel like posting: Anyone want to buy 2 gtx 460's and a mobo for $500? lol. But I am still hoping it's just driver errors.
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September 10, 2010 7:03:22 AM

Did you contact the manufacture of your video cards after you got the sli bridge? Did you switch cards to see if the problem followed the card? Also in case i missed it what gtx 460's are they?
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September 10, 2010 7:05:54 AM

Oops 1 thing i forget have you tryed to contact blizzard about it? They are pretty good at helping with that kind of stuff. They are pretty nice but be careful they are some real twits (censored) when you call so make sure you have all your information ready for them. I know this is going to sound odd but usually they make sure your video and your SOUND card drivers are up to date. I know it sounds funny but according to them it can effect your pc. Just a heads up.
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September 10, 2010 3:26:13 PM

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

And in my first thread, http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/296647-33-help
i trouble shot the cards, indvidually and on both Pci-e slots to make sure if it was my mobo or cards, and found out it was neither, it was the bridge, msi sent anew one, and it works just fine ^^,
With Blizzard they said they are looking into the issue but pretty much it's a driver issue as they don't support SLi, their solution, disable SLi for now =)
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September 10, 2010 8:49:53 PM

That figures maybe its just the game. Have you tried other games to see if it has a latency problem. I wouldn't be surprised if its game related. What i would do personally is start a thread of SC2 and sli together and see if anyone has the same problems. If you haven't already.
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September 10, 2010 9:23:01 PM

Nvidia forums has ^^ atm I and others are waiting for the new drivers. Depending on how they perform after they come out, I my be putting up an add on craigs list, and going back to ATI lol.
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a c 172 Î Nvidia
September 10, 2010 9:27:36 PM

Oldirty said:
Nvidia forums has ^^ atm I and others are waiting for the new drivers. Depending on how they perform after they come out, I my be putting up an add on craigs list, and going back to ATI lol.

If you're using Vista 64 or W764 there is a 260.52 driver floating about.
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September 10, 2010 11:37:55 PM

I haven't used ATI in a long long while although last time i did it wasnt worth it. Pretty sure you go to the manufacturers website of the video card. Last thing i read was that the Nvidia website has problems with its drivers on some of the new stuff.
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a c 172 Î Nvidia
September 10, 2010 11:46:18 PM

Crazeycaleb said:
Last thing i read was that the Nvidia website has problems with its drivers on some of the new stuff.

Could you clarify that please.
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September 11, 2010 12:44:25 AM

Most people when they think to update their video card go to the nvidia website. Bad idea. Nvidia even suggest that you use the manufactures website. For instance you buy a evga gtx 480, or msi gtx 480, or palit gtx 480 nvidia suggest that you visit those specific manufactures and download the driver from them dirrectly. I know it sounds kind of weird but i was having a problem with nvidias stuff and i contacted one of their customer service reps and they suggested i try the manufactures website first and to get the lastest spec and drives for my particular card. I know some people are going to say that nvidia doesnt have drivers for video cards. Wrong. They sure do because i had them for a long while before i went to EVGA and got the updated drivers. Also even the manufactures suggest that you use there drivers as apposed to microsoft updated drivers for a couple reasons. 1. Because the drivers are usually outdated and dont make use of the new technology. 2. That most of the time the drivers from the manufacturers wql signed anyhow so they are guaranteed to work with windows. 3. Sometimes the old driver from windows say they work with xxxx video card and they may but they lower the performance. The manufacturers also suggest that you dont use any programs that find drivers for you and if you are having problems with your video card dont use beta drivers.
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September 11, 2010 12:48:40 AM

Oldirty said:
Nvidia forums has ^^ atm I and others are waiting for the new drivers. Depending on how they perform after they come out, I my be putting up an add on craigs list, and going back to ATI lol.

What drivers are you using? I just got done reading about possible problems sli may cause. They say that you should try running SLI in a different game. The reason this is because the last time this person tried a game that didnt support SLI the game worked just fine but got choppy and slow and soon as he disconnected his SLI it worked just fine. He contacted the person of the game and comes to find out that its pretty common. Although there are some games that doent support it but you can still make it work. Although not sure which ones or how to. Haven't gotten that far. I will keep you up to date on what i find out.
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!