5.0 Ghz Intel Gulftown, 6 cores, 6 GB RAM, $$$X?

[AllanCameron]

I need to ask some expert advice from this section of the forum.

I've been staring at this overclocked 5.0 GHz Intel Gulftown, 6 cores, 6 GB RAM, 1 TB Hard drive, 128 GB SSD.

Before I show a link to it and the current asking price, I am wondering what do you guys think a system like this is worth?

Keep in mind this was built by a company, they have to ship it and offer a warranty, stuff like that.

So, what would you guys be willing to pay to own a system like that?

 

[voltaic1008]

Well, if you're in the market for a gulftown that's 5GHz, I'd probably just build your own system.

Are you buying it and reselling it? If so, I'd probably just use common sense and sell it for more than I paid for lol

 

[AllanCameron]

Such wisdom

No, I saw it for sale for the shocking price of $6300 on Amazon.com but the company that is producing them have a special "buy it direct" price of $5000 through the end of October.

http://www.amazon.com/Trinity-Light...GTL6BK21ZRP9&s=generic&qid=1287175747&sr=1-5]

It's about $166 per GHz for $5000, which is pretty good.

 

[Mousemonkey]

Are you selling it or thinking of buying it?

 

[AllanCameron]

I am trying to get people's input before my company does buy one. I am the "resident expert" (unfortunately for them, ha!) so I figure I would ask the highly reputable people on this site before I do something stupid, like recommend to them to buy a $6300 system if someone on here says: "You can build one for $2000"

It seems like everybody on here can do things cheaper than anyone else who has a price in mind or an estimate for a system build, so this is the perfect place to ask the experts!

 

[Mousemonkey]

Rather than posting what looks like an advert here, you might be better off pricing a system up over in the homebuilt section.

 

[AllanCameron]

Oh, sorry, was not meaning it to be!

 

[Mousemonkey]

I almost deleted as an advert when I first saw it.

 

[AllanCameron]

Well I am glad you let it stick around.

Does anyone here know how to overclock such a box to 5.0 GHz?

In your opinion, is the (very fast already) Gulftown capable or reaching that speed without melting through the core of the earth? It must get hot as blazes at 5.0 GHz, so the cooling solution they have rigged up must be something else! Could that account for the high price?

I'd like to know peoples' opinions of this. If it is "easy" to do, as some of you might say, I'd sure be interested in how. If not, does the price seem reasonable, given the extreme speed?

Sorry for so many questions. You just don't see 5.0 Ghz being offered anywhere!

 

[megazeroexe]

There is literally no real application for this. Most programs use 2 cores at most, and there's not a significant performance gain once you get past the 4.3ghz threshold in a system regardless of what anyone else tells you. This is a complete waste of cash made for someone who wants a bigger 'e-peen'.

You can get a great Xeon 6 core processor for 1k and change, or if you get a dual CPU motherboard such as the SR-2, get two decent Xeons for 1.3k and change and get much better performance. Overclocking any processor above 3.9 ghz requires tons of testing and planning, plus a good liquid cooling solution, in my opinion (some say you can stably and safely overclock to 4.2 on i7 and Xeons on air, but I wouldn't risk it).

For the price this computer is, you can save a lot of money building it yourself, plus get much more out of it. Only 1TB for 6300 dollars? A waste. If you really want a custom built six core with a fair price, I reccomend DigitalStorm.

Also, since you asked, it's a vapor cooling system, which is a giant pain in the butt, and since the 5ghz overclock is really useless in real life application, for a business, it's completely unnecessary.

Any other questions, feel free to ask.

 

[AllanCameron]

Wow.

I can't believe somebody could be so wrong megazeroexe!

Once you get past 4.3 GHz, there's not a significant performance gain?

How about the one hundred quadrillion data points my company analyzes in a simulation of a tall building they wish to implode safely? These simulations run for about 36 hours in a program called LS-DYNA, even on the 12 threads of a stock Gulftown.

Are you going to tell me that at 5.0 Ghz x 6 cores it won't be any faster than 4.3 GHz?

The time savings over what we have in place would be 36 - [(3.3/5.0) x 36] = about 12 and a half hours.

12.5 hours x the number of architects waiting on the data x the number of managers involved in the project x the number of demolition experts involved at about $2000/hour total salaries = $25,000 in labor.

That's 5 times the price of the system, and that's just one project we're talking about!

A vapor cooling system is a "giant pain in the butt"?? Sounds like you have no experience with them.

Our engineers talked to the company selling them. They've seen videos of it during startup, and during operation. They run for weeks at a time, no problem, and they are covered under an 18 month warranty should anything go wrong.

If there was a way to vote for WORST ANSWER EVER PROVIDED, I would click that button for your reply.

 

[sportsfanboy]

1) In order to overclock to 5.0 you will need a multiple rad water cooler, or phase change cooling.

2) Except for bragging rights, you absolutely do not need a gulftown chip at 5.0ghz. The stress your putting that chip through at that speed just isn't worth it. You will most definitely be over recommended specification for voltage with that overclock. Not very practical for business or home use, for 24/7 operation. A much more modest overclock of around 3.6-4.0, will crush anything you throw at.

3) And yes you can build a comparable computer for probably less than 2000.

4) Lots of people here can help you with a build like that if you ask nicely

 

[AllanCameron]

I agree with point 1) -- they are using Vapor Phase Change Cooling in their rig.

I disagree with point 2) -- you are perhaps used to "consumer applications" and not "business applications." The simulations we are running do quadrillions of calculations. 1 quadrillion = 1000 x 1000 x 1000 x 1000 x 1000. There is no way for computers to "crush" this, all of the simulations we do still run for about 36 hours, some much longer. Any speed increase we get has tremendous savings.

As for point 3) -- I don't know how to respond to "probably" based on some of what you wrote prior. If you think a 3.6 GHz machine will "solve the need" then you don't understand what it is we are trying to do, so you "probably" could not build a solution that would work.

This is NOT a gaming machine. This is NOT something we are using to run Microsoft Word faster.

We have a massively-parallel piece of simulation software that can use all 6 cores and task them fully. Even 6 processors running 24x7 take about 36 hours to finish one of our LS-DYNA simulations on a stock Gulftown.

So, I guess my question is still unanswered.

Is there a way to build a 5.0 GHz Gulftown system for under $5000?

If there is, I'd like to hear about it, but so far all I have heard is "I can build a 4.3 GHz system for $2000" with nothing backing it up.

By the way, it's perfectly fine for you guys to say "I can't build a 5.0 GHz system", in which case, you are helping!

If nobody can build one, then we go with the only solution being offered that is out there.

 

[sportsfanboy]

1) you didn't fully read or comprehend what I said in point 2. I never said 5.0 isn't faster- What I said was you will be "overvolting" the chip. That means, at 5.0 you will be doing damage to the processor, hence not practical for business, since business computers, especially the one you are proposing, is being used at a pretty high capacity for long periods of time. Your just looking for a failure, and last time I knew, a work machine doesn't work well with a bad processor. Electron migration will be the killer here, you can look that one up. What you should be looking for is a server/workstation class computer, not an overclocked single chip.

And yes again, You can probably, most likely build a comparable, computer for around 2000. That that doesn't mean it comes at 5.0 out of the box. That means you can buy the same parts for around that much.

 

[megazeroexe]

I literally said running two Xeon's at a comparable price would get you much higher performance than a Gulftown; sure, it will be slightly faster at 5.0 compared to 4.3, but two six cores mildly overclocked > an insanely overclocked six core, AND the stress you're putting on the 5.0 chip is ridiculous. Like I said, this absolutely isn't worth it.

If you gave me advice in my other thread saying how overpriced and underpowered it was, you should be able to realize this is the same situation.

 

[sportsfanboy]

Well here is your 2000 dollar computer with 12gb of ram capable of reaching 5.0, with the right overclocking know how.

 

[sportsfanboy]

Forgot the hard drives, but you can save money if you subtract 6 gigs of ram, i made the build with 12gb. Or for around 2300, with 12gb an ssd and a 1tb drive

 

[megazeroexe]

Depending on what you're doing, a better graphics card for GPU computing can help. I don't know much about business application.

By the way, I didn't mean to sound snarky or anything earlier, no hard feelings

 

[sportsfanboy]

It sounds like he's going to be using the cpu for crunching exclusively, but not a 100 percent on that.

 

[AllanCameron]

Forgot the hard drives, but you can save money if you subtract 6 gigs of ram, i made the build with 12gb. Or for around 2300, with 12gb an ssd and a 1tb drive

Great post!

RE: 12 GB - I was told getting all 12 GB to work with such a high overclock is nettlesome. It is relatively easy to get 6 GB to behave comparatively speaking.

RE: Overvoltage at 5.0 GHz - Not a problem, the voltage delta is not as severe as you might think. All well within spec, and they have systems installs with several months longevity at 24x7 so far. Nothing longer than that because the technology is relatively new.

RE: complete parts list - I am checking it all out now, THANKS 1000 x 1000!

I'm sure there's quite a bit more to it than that, but I'll let you know how it turns out, whatever the company ultimately decides.

 

[sportsfanboy]

Ok cool gl

 

[sportsfanboy]

Forgot to add, you will have to do some insulating on the mother board for that phase change setup, or you will have condensation problems. You don't want to fry any components. There are tons of guides online to help you out in that regard. I'm sure there are some guru's here too, but I'm not one of them.

 

[AllanCameron]

Thanks for the tip, and yes, I was vaguely aware of stuff like the condensation issues. I have been reading everything I can on here.

Our company may need to buy several of these things, so I'm a bit nervous if they ask me to build them all!

I might request that they buy the one online already made, and spend some money on the parts you listed, and I'll try an build one. If they're happy with the one they buy, I won't try too hard to upstage it. If it turns out to be a dog like everyone is supposing, or not worth the money, then time will tell and I will report this too.

Thanks again for all of your help and good advice.

It's a long shot, but one the company will have to take, either way.

 

[sportsfanboy]

LOL another thing... Most cases aren't setup to receive a phase change cooler. You might have to cut a hole in the bottom or the side of the case, with a metal hole saw.

 

[AllanCameron]

I'm good at that, I punch holes in walls with a sledgehammer for a living