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Video Card Problem

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  • Graphics
Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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September 6, 2010 1:02:05 AM

Hello,
I have a 3 1/2 year old CyberPower custom built PC. It has an ASUS P5N-E SLI MB, Core 2 E6700 processor, and Thermaltake Tough Power 850 w PS. Yea, I know I should have built it myself, but I'm not as smart as you guys. It came with a GeForce G8800 GTX, which recently went bad, and I replaced it with a Radeon 5850. The 5850 was fine for almost a month, then one day when I turned on the computer, got no display, and the fan on the Video card was running full out- very noisy- airplane. I replaced the 5850 with an old NVIDEA GeForce 9300 I had available, and the computer and display were fine. So I assumed it was a bad video card and returned it to Newegg for a new one. It came yesterday, and I replaced the old 9300 with the new 5850. Turned on the PC and airplane again. It can't be a bad video card, and the NVIDEA 9300 works fine. I realized that the smaller NVIDEA card didn't need the additional two 6v power connections and the 5850 does. Could it be the power supply?? Any suggestions of how I can diagnose or fix this??

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a b U Graphics card
September 6, 2010 1:15:02 AM

Yes, Theres a possibility it's faulty power supply connections.

Go and clean up your drivers with driversweeper from guru3d and then update your drivers to the lastest ATI CCC drivers, Insert the card at this point and try again. if it still doesn't work try to borrow someones powersupply (500~650w will be sufficient) and then retry.

If it works = PSU if it doesn't = ??? suspected motherboard problems?

Oh and I almost forgot, Does it post? or show anything to do with bios when you load it up?
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September 6, 2010 1:28:00 AM

decode said:
Yes, Theres a possibility it's faulty power supply connections.

Go and clean up your drivers with driversweeper from guru3d and then update your drivers to the lastest ATI CCC drivers, Insert the card at this point and try again. if it still doesn't work try to borrow someones powersupply (500~650w will be sufficient) and then retry.

If it works = PSU if it doesn't = ??? suspected motherboard problems?

Oh and I almost forgot, Does it post? or show anything to do with bios when you load it up?


Thanks for quick reply. I don't know how to check if it is posting. Doesn't the fact that it is working fine with the smaller video card mean it is posting OK. Same with BIOS.

I'll check into the drivers, but when I first installed the original 5850, I still had old drivers for the NVIDEA card installed and the operating system recognized the card OK and booted up with basic drivers. I then installed the correct drivers and it worked OK for a month.
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September 6, 2010 2:04:01 AM

Perhaps I did add that with the NEW 5850 video card, in addition to the load fan noise I have absolutely no video.
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a b U Graphics card
September 6, 2010 2:44:54 AM

Ok well reboot the system with your 5850 in and see if ANYTHING shows on your screen

Anything related to BIO or graphics card information is generally a good sign.
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a b U Graphics card
September 6, 2010 3:35:37 AM

noob_02 said:
Thanks for quick reply. I don't know how to check if it is posting. Doesn't the fact that it is working fine with the smaller video card mean it is posting OK. Same with BIOS.

It's POSTing OK with the smaller card. Does the system POST with the 5850?

I'd look a little more closely at the PSU. PSU capacity is more than you need - a good 550 watt PSU will power your system. The problem is that ThermalTakes are not particularly good PSU's. The TR2 RX-850 has a total of 60 amps on the 12 volt rails when operating normally. That's about what a good 750 should supply.

Work through our standard checklist and troubleshooting thread:
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/261145-31-read-postin...
I mean work through, not just read over it.

Breadboard - that will help isolate any kind of case problem you might have.
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/262730-31-breadboardi...

Breadboard with just motherboard, CPU & HSF, case speaker, and PSU. You do have a case speaker installed, right? If not, you really, really need one. If your case or motherboard didn't come with a system speaker, you can buy one here:
http://www.cwc-group.com/casp.html

You can turn on the PC by momentarily shorting the two pins that the case power switch goes to.

You should hear a series of long, single beeps indicating memory problems. Silence indicates a problem with (in most likely order) the PSU, motherboard, or CPU. Remember, at this time, you do not have a graphics card installed so the load on
your PSU will be reduced.

If no beeps:
At this point, you can sort of check the PSU. Try to borrow a known good PSU of 550 - 600 watts. If you cannot do that, use a DMM to measure the voltages. Measure between the colored wires and either chassis ground or the black wires. Yellow wires should be 12 volts. Red wires: +5 volts, orange wires: +3.3 volts, blue wire : -12 volts, violet wire: 5 volts always on. Tolerances are +/- 5% except for the -12 volts which is +/- 10%.

The gray wire is really important. It should go from 0 to +5 volts when you turn the PSU on with the case switch. CPU needs this signal to boot.

You can turn on the PSU by completely disconnecting the PSU and using a paperclip or jumper wire to short the green wire to one of the neighboring black wires.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FWXgQSokF4&feature=yout...

This checks the PSU under no load conditions, so it is not completely reliable. Then repeat the checks with the PSU plugged into the computer to put a load on the PSU.

If the system beeps:
If it looks like the PSU is good, install a memory stick. Boot. Beep pattern should change to one long and several short beeps indicating a missing graphics card. Silence or long single beeps indicate a problem with the memory.

Insert the video card and connect any necessary PCIe power connectors. Boot. At this point, the system should POST successfully (a single short beep). Notice that you do not need keyboard, mouse, monitor, or drives to successfully POST.

Now start connecting the rest of the devices starting with the monitor, then keyboard and mouse, then the rest of the devices, testing after each step. It's possible that you can pass the POST with a defective video card. The POST routines can only check the video interface. It cannot check the internal parts of the video card.

I'd look a little more closely at the PSU. PSU capacity is more than you need - a good 550 watt PSU will power your system. The problem is that ThermalTakes are not particularly good PSU's. The TR2 RX-850 has a total of 60 amps on the 12 volt rails when operating normally. That's about what a good 750 should supply.
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September 6, 2010 2:38:15 PM

jsc said:
It's POSTing OK with the smaller card. Does the system POST with the 5850?

I'd look a little more closely at the PSU. PSU capacity is more than you need - a good 550 watt PSU will power your system. The problem is that ThermalTakes are not particularly good PSU's. The TR2 RX-850 has a total of 60 amps on the 12 volt rails when operating normally. That's about what a good 750 should supply.

Work through our standard checklist and troubleshooting thread:
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/261145-31-read-postin...
I mean work through, not just read over it.

Breadboard - that will help isolate any kind of case problem you might have.
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/262730-31-breadboardi...

Breadboard with just motherboard, CPU & HSF, case speaker, and PSU. You do have a case speaker installed, right? If not, you really, really need one. If your case or motherboard didn't come with a system speaker, you can buy one here:
http://www.cwc-group.com/casp.html

You can turn on the PC by momentarily shorting the two pins that the case power switch goes to.

You should hear a series of long, single beeps indicating memory problems. Silence indicates a problem with (in most likely order) the PSU, motherboard, or CPU. Remember, at this time, you do not have a graphics card installed so the load on
your PSU will be reduced.

If no beeps:
At this point, you can sort of check the PSU. Try to borrow a known good PSU of 550 - 600 watts. If you cannot do that, use a DMM to measure the voltages. Measure between the colored wires and either chassis ground or the black wires. Yellow wires should be 12 volts. Red wires: +5 volts, orange wires: +3.3 volts, blue wire : -12 volts, violet wire: 5 volts always on. Tolerances are +/- 5% except for the -12 volts which is +/- 10%.

The gray wire is really important. It should go from 0 to +5 volts when you turn the PSU on with the case switch. CPU needs this signal to boot.

You can turn on the PSU by completely disconnecting the PSU and using a paperclip or jumper wire to short the green wire to one of the neighboring black wires.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FWXgQSokF4&feature=yout...

This checks the PSU under no load conditions, so it is not completely reliable. Then repeat the checks with the PSU plugged into the computer to put a load on the PSU.

If the system beeps:
If it looks like the PSU is good, install a memory stick. Boot. Beep pattern should change to one long and several short beeps indicating a missing graphics card. Silence or long single beeps indicate a problem with the memory.

Insert the video card and connect any necessary PCIe power connectors. Boot. At this point, the system should POST successfully (a single short beep). Notice that you do not need keyboard, mouse, monitor, or drives to successfully POST.

Now start connecting the rest of the devices starting with the monitor, then keyboard and mouse, then the rest of the devices, testing after each step. It's possible that you can pass the POST with a defective video card. The POST routines can only check the video interface. It cannot check the internal parts of the video card.

I'd look a little more closely at the PSU. PSU capacity is more than you need - a good 550 watt PSU will power your system. The problem is that ThermalTakes are not particularly good PSU's. The TR2 RX-850 has a total of 60 amps on the 12 volt rails when operating normally. That's about what a good 750 should supply.


Thanks JSC. You have given me a lot to think about and investigate. This morning before I read your message, I investigated my PSU as the source of the problem. It has 4 PCIe 6-pin outputs. I used two new 6-pin PCIe cables to connected the two previously unused PCIe outputs from the PSU to the problem video card (the Radeon 5850). Still no video at all and still very loud video fan (full speed??). It's my understanding, perhaps wrongly, that the voltage for each of these 4 PCIe "rails" is independently generated in the PSU. That coupled with the fact that with the smaller NVIDEA card (not requiring additional 6-pin cables for power) worked fine makes me suspicious that it is not the PSU.

I will keep investigating. Thanks everyone for the suggestions so far.

Something to think about. Why is the fan on the GPU going full speed??? Is there anything besides GPU temperature that could cause that?
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a c 1430 U Graphics card
September 6, 2010 2:42:56 PM

It is normal for the fan to run full speed until windows has loaded the video card drivers which will take control of the fan speed. Have you eliminated driver issues? Specially that you are going between Nvidia and ATI cards.
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September 6, 2010 2:48:36 PM

decode said:
Ok well reboot the system with your 5850 in and see if ANYTHING shows on your screen

Anything related to BIO or graphics card information is generally a good sign.


Last night I downloaded driversweeper from guru3d as you previously suggested. I cleaned out all drivers in safe mode and installed the latest CCC drivers and rebooted with the 5850 card. Still no video at all and loud GPU fan. I have tried rebooting many times- no luck.
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September 6, 2010 2:53:16 PM

rolli59 said:
It is normal for the fan to run full speed until windows has loaded the video card drivers which will take control of the fan speed. Have you eliminated driver issues? Specially that you are going between Nvidia and ATI cards.


Rolli- Look to my reply to decode about drivers.
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September 6, 2010 4:20:32 PM

rolli59 said:
Have you got the latest BIOS (1406) for the board? http://www.asus.com/product.aspx?P_ID=KyHOsOKWujC2QguJ it has AMD VGA fix in it


I'll look into that rolli. The thing is that the original Radeon 5850 card I bought worked fine for a month then just failed to work one day when I turned on the PC. It was actually working fine earlier that day so I doubt it's the BIOS.
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September 7, 2010 1:33:41 PM

NEW DEVELOPMENTS
I flashed the newest BIOS as suggested by rolli. It didn't seem to help with the problem. I also restored the computer to a date before the problems and again used Driver Sweeper to get rid of all remnents of the NVIDEA drivers. I have now the newest ATI CCC drivers for the 5850. Also my BIOS has a "hardware monitor"- it shows the voltages to be within specifications.

The problem now (and maybe it always was) is an intermittant problem. Out of 5 attempts to start computer maybe 1 will be successful. I can tell within 1 or 2 seconds of turning on the power if it is going to successfully boot. The loud fan noise made by the GPU fan is the key. If the loud fan persists more than 2 secs it will not boot. With a successfull boot the loud fan noise will either not be present at all (it is probably a normal GPU fan speed, but it is not noticable over the other fans) from the time I start power or it will cease within 1 or 2 sec. After the computer successfully boots everything works great. I get a display and the computer works fine.

I should also mention that the computer was booting fine every time with the smaller NVIDEA Geforce 9300.

Any ideas about why the computer is having trouble booting with the Radeon 5850?



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September 18, 2010 1:05:40 PM

I was never able to get the Radeon 5850 card to work in my computer. I finally bought an NVIDEA GTX 470 card and it works fine. Boots up every time- no problems.
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September 18, 2010 1:06:36 PM

Best answer selected by noob_02.
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a c 274 U Graphics card
September 18, 2010 5:05:55 PM

This topic has been closed by Mousemonkey
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