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CPU + Motherboard Compatability

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January 19, 2011 2:50:17 AM

Sorry for possible rambling, but I want to lay out my story in as much detail as possible.

I am trying to upgrade an eMachines T3990. The computer came outfitted with a socket 478 D865GVHZ Hazelton Motherboard. You can see a diagram of the

board at this link: http://dexplor.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7747553 (the second image). It came with an Intel Celeron D 335

@2.8GHz w/ 533MHz FSB and a 256Kb L2 Cache. According to Intel, this processor is not necessarily compatible with the machine. Since my board is revision

101 (it's printed on the board) this: http://www.intel.com/support/motherboards/desktop/d865g...

official chart from Intel says that the Celeron D 335 may not be supported by the revsion 101 board. It also shows the the higher end Pentium 4 chips may not

be supported either. Other sources have claims that the boards is limited only to Celeron D processors with a 400MHz FSB, one of which was eMachines

technical support. Deeming these unreliable, I have researched further into other third party and more trustworthy sources, one of which being the Intel page,

which I doubt is incorrect. Seeing that eMachines outfitted the T3990 with a motherboard/CPU combo that does not necessarily function togother, it seems that

it can be concluded that the processors listed as compatible with later board revisions may not be incompatible with the 101 revsion, but simply unconfirmed as

working with every board. It would be hard to believe that eMachines would make a mistake tha drastic (although the value of their technical support seems to

suggest otherwise...). I gleaned much info from other sources, some of which coming from the earlier link I posted. The poster is obviously high ranked and I

have seen many knowledgable posts from him, so I am inclined to believe his information. I find it odd, however, that he calls the Pentium 4 3.4GHz/1M

older (are the Celeron D's better?). He also notes how the BIOs upgrade opens the door to new processor options. I believe that although some of Intel's info

may not actually match up, the BIOs will in fact let me use any processor listed on the Intel page (except possibly the Extreme Editions).

The is the root of my question: I want this computer to be a mild gaming machine for LAN play. I want it to be able to run older game or low resource game on

high or max settings, ie, Warcraft 3, Halo CE, League of Legends, etc, and potentially be able to run newer ones at extremely low settings. I have installed a

Radeon X1550 PCI video card, the best PCI card available. I am also going to upgrade to a new PSU, 2 gigs of PC-3200 DDR ram, as well as a WD VelociRaptor 10000rpm

74 gig HDD, and install XP, as it would take up less power than 7 (vista is out of the question lol). All of this will help squeeze out as much performance as I can

from this rig, but I dont want the CPU to lag behind. Based on the information provided, which CPU should I purchase: The possibly unsupported Pentium 4

3.40E GHz with 800MHz FSB and 1M cache, the more likely supported Pentium 4 with the 512K cache, or if for some reason it is better, the Celeron D 345 at

3.06GHz with 533MHZ FSB and 256K cache (if supported). The Pentiums also tend to be expensive, with the 3.2GHz models of each tending to be significanty

cheaper, so I may get those. The main difference in the Pentiums is the L2 cache size, and I don't know what the E means in the better one. I don't want to

overspend buying a CPU that is not supported or spend to much on the 3.4GHz, but also don't want a CPU that I am unsatisfied with. I believe cache sizes only

impact noticeably processor heavy activities, which doesn't really include older games, but I don't want it lagging behind on newer ones. After all, a 512K is tiny

by today's standards, and the 1M barely qualifies as bare minimum. I am also worried that the .2GHz clock difference may have significant affect on newer

games as well. What I need to know is what is the best processor my board will support to the best of your knowledge (the Pentium with the 512K, 1M, or the

Celeron) and is it worth the saving to buy a 3.2GHz Pentium over a 3.4GHz.

Thansk for reading wall of text, no TL;DR included. Sorry I don't know how to hyperlink. Also, don't tell me that I should save my money for a better PC, I

already have the base components for this one and wish to upgrade this one, as cases and motherboards tend to be the most expensive components.
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January 19, 2011 3:02:40 AM

Wow. Good luck ... you're gonna need it.

Sorry about the non-helpful post, but I just had to say that, and one more thing:

If you can't find reliable info on your board and what it supports, you really would be better off replacing it.
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January 19, 2011 5:25:51 AM

Simple fact: 478 is a dead socket. Any components you can find for it will probably be expensive, to the point where you can pick up something 10 years newer for more or less the same price. I strongly advise you to look at low end AMD Socket AM3 or Intel i3 options. You could even go Socket 775 / Core 2 and still get MUCH better value for money than upgrading that old rig.
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January 19, 2011 2:12:20 PM

I quit reading your book after the 5th line.........

Anyways you could get a new modern 45nm dual core and a motherboard for less than $100, so why bother?
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January 19, 2011 4:41:20 PM

It's better to post a short message with very specific questions rather than write a full story (without some space between paragraphs)

But to stay on topic: I never heard of a socket 478, and when i looked it up, i saw that it came out in 2000 (which is a LONG time ago!)

Computers may need to be replaced every 3-4 years to keep up with technology...
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January 20, 2011 12:50:28 AM

So, no one actually has any advice on the effects of L2 caches and minor CPU frequency variations, you're all just going to post useless "buy a new computer" advice like I see so many times on forusm liek this. And here I thought it was actually worth coming here. Not that I expected great advice in only a day, but with thsi many posts, you'd think more people would be willing to read all the way or at least not make "old computers are worthless" generalizations.
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January 20, 2011 1:12:17 AM

Charlemagne_3 said:
So, no one actually has any advice on the effects of L2 caches and minor CPU frequency variations, you're all just going to post useless "buy a new computer" advice like I see so many times on forusm liek this. And here I thought it was actually worth coming here. Not that I expected great advice in only a day, but with thsi many posts, you'd think more people would be willing to read all the way or at least not make "old computers are worthless" generalizations.


Sorry that the truth hurts. I'm running the exact setup you are looking to upgrade to. P4 Prescott 3.2ghz 800mhz FSB 3gb pc-3200 ram, 74gb raptor, etc.etc.etc. Its a dog. FLASH based games lag on this PC. Don't even think of using a stock cooler with this monster, I have almost two pounds of copper and a 120MM cpu fan and it runs hot enough for me to not need a space heater in my bedroom.

Your system with a 3.4ghz Pentium E edition is computationally equivalent to an ATOM 330 1.6ghz. Seriously, thats a fact.
I'd keep your system the way you have it. It runs, putting money into an ancient platform that is sketchy to begin with (e-machines) and questionable comparability, don't do it.

The bigger L2 cache will be an improvement in processes that run back to back, which is what my processor does just loading XP sp3. and .2 ghz increase won't be noticeable in any modern game.

Your system probably has AGP 4x, not even 8x, and most of those cards could barely do DirectX 9, let alone even considering 10, or 11.

I'm not even going to insult my 6 yr old by giving him this computer, I'm going to build him a $300 pc that will completely outdo mine by a shameful mile.

Your questions about cache and ghz are good questions. You can keep the case, PSU, HDD, ODD, etc. Get a dual core AMD and MB for $100, ram for $40, and a video card for $80-100 and you have a machine that will run XP or 7, all of those old games at max, and newer ones at a frame rate that is livable.
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Anonymous
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January 20, 2011 3:06:36 AM

478,
the best it supports is a P4 so I'd go with everyone else's advice
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January 20, 2011 5:50:22 AM

Charlemagne_3 said:
So, no one actually has any advice on the effects of L2 caches and minor CPU frequency variations, you're all just going to post useless "buy a new computer" advice like I see so many times on forusm liek this. And here I thought it was actually worth coming here. Not that I expected great advice in only a day, but with thsi many posts, you'd think more people would be willing to read all the way or at least not make "old computers are worthless" generalizations.


I did read though your entire post, and paid attention while doing it. And no, I'm not going to change my advice. Sinking money into a system that old is a waste of effort, period.
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Anonymous
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January 20, 2011 10:20:14 AM

Herr_Koos said:
I did read though your entire post, and paid attention while doing it. And no, I'm not going to change my advice. Sinking money into a system that old is a waste of effort, period.


Exactly, I have a socket 775 which I've been doing ton's of research on whether it's worth upgrades- I'm also a teenager, so I don't have much money.

But a socket 478 is way too old, although I do hate it when people just say buy a new computer, this is definitely a place where it makes sense to say so, and clock rates don't matter any more, would a Pentium D (which is like a dual-core P4) @ 4GHz be able to beat a dual core processor like the i3 or even the Core 2 Duo?
Hell no.
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January 20, 2011 4:18:50 PM

why do you hate buying a new computer? Everything dies bro, that's life...
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January 20, 2011 5:29:07 PM

Sometimes the truth hurts and people don't want to hear it.

Putting $1 into a p4 system is a total waste of money. Besides, like I said, you could upgrade to a s775 dual core wolfdale that's highly overclockable if your into that thing and a cheap Intel G41 motherboard for about $100 for both and it would be twice as fast as any Pentium D dual core setup, run A LOT cooler, and use A LOT less power.

Don't berate people for helping you and giving you good advice.
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January 21, 2011 12:33:02 AM

Theres a reason I specifically said I am only interested in this machine. I already have a computer with a quad core zeon at 3.00GHz, 4 gigs of RAM, and a GTX 260 GPU. Im using this as a secondary machine, and it will be cheaper to upgrade this since I already have many parts. It will suit my purposes with whats available for it.

Thanks for the advice someone, but Im not exactly lookign to run modern games. Older ones sure, but I am only interested in it running anything from the past 5 years at bare miniumum.
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January 21, 2011 12:45:31 AM

wow i think i just stripped one of those machines to put my rig in it till i can find a case :p 

if its the same you are not gonna find anything to fit in that socket thet mobo is ancient. and i can't see any suplier still stocking the old pentium's

does that board support ddr? i'll have to dig mine out and see. i chucked the mobo in a corner somewhere.

you could upgrade it to a dual core system for really cheap. if your just using it as a spare rig for lan party's the truth is i'll be amazed if you can find those processors anywhere. i wish you the best of look but suggest you look into getting a cheap mobo for a cheap dual core cpu.

if the old pentiums are around there probably going at stupid prices as retro gear :p .
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January 21, 2011 12:56:58 AM

ahh mine seems to be a slightly older version, its rocking AGP graphics oh yeah! same processor though.
different mobo by the looks of it mine has the asrock P4i65G 478 socket. 256mb ddr ram :p 
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January 21, 2011 5:39:37 AM

Charlemagne_3 said:
Theres a reason I specifically said I am only interested in this machine. I already have a computer with a quad core zeon at 3.00GHz, 4 gigs of RAM, and a GTX 260 GPU. Im using this as a secondary machine, and it will be cheaper to upgrade this since I already have many parts. It will suit my purposes with whats available for it.

Thanks for the advice someone, but Im not exactly lookign to run modern games. Older ones sure, but I am only interested in it running anything from the past 5 years at bare miniumum.



You might have told us that from the start...
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Anonymous
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January 21, 2011 6:18:45 AM

Charlemagne_3 said:
Theres a reason I specifically said I am only interested in this machine. I already have a computer with a quad core zeon at 3.00GHz, 4 gigs of RAM, and a GTX 260 GPU. Im using this as a secondary machine, and it will be cheaper to upgrade this since I already have many parts. It will suit my purposes with whats available for it.

Thanks for the advice someone, but Im not exactly lookign to run modern games. Older ones sure, but I am only interested in it running anything from the past 5 years at bare miniumum.


OK, then the best CPU for that socket IS the Pentium 4 Extreme Edition at 3.4GHz, this isn't my opinion, it's a fact. Try to get one off ebay or something. People still sell it expensive when it can't even beat the Pentium D, but there you go, that's the best for that socket.
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January 21, 2011 12:00:55 PM

Charlemagne_3 said:
Theres a reason I specifically said I am only interested in this machine. I already have a computer with a quad core zeon at 3.00GHz, 4 gigs of RAM, and a GTX 260 GPU. Im using this as a secondary machine, and it will be cheaper to upgrade this since I already have many parts. It will suit my purposes with whats available for it.

Thanks for the advice someone, but Im not exactly lookign to run modern games. Older ones sure, but I am only interested in it running anything from the past 5 years at bare miniumum.


So your going to spend what, say $100 on a Pentium D or some crap? Still makes no sense when you can get a new motherboard and a cpu that's 2-3 times faster for the same price. I think your just not listening to reason.
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Anonymous
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January 21, 2011 2:59:07 PM

Yeah, I just checked on the prices of these old processors and they are being sold as if they are ancient master pieces, it goes like this;

A brand new car costs $20,000
A 5 year old car costs $14,000
A 15 year old car costs $5000
A 90 year old car is an antique master piece so it costs $200,000

So the same goes for the processor, these processors are becoming considered antiques, so malmental and GeekApproved are correct,
They have reached the level of oldness that the cost actually begins to rise!
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January 27, 2011 11:35:22 PM

Quote:
OK, then the best CPU for that socket IS the Pentium 4 Extreme Edition at 3.4GHz, this isn't my opinion, it's a fact. Try to get one off ebay or something. People still sell it expensive when it can't even beat the Pentium D, but there you go, that's the best for that socket.


I didnt list that one, Im looking for an affordable CPU, either a 3.4GHz with 512K L2 or 256K L2, or 3.2GHz with 512K L2 or 256K L2. I want to know whether the more expensive ones listed are worth the money. Furthermore, I dont know where some of you are getting these prices, but the cpu's i listed arent 100 dollars, and they are well worth their price. As I said, I only want to know how big a difference I will seee from the slight variations in cpu specs.
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January 28, 2011 1:25:15 AM

Quote:
That cpu you mentioned is supported by that board. It listed almost at the bottom of the page Celeron D. But there's no upgrade path from there.


No, it isnt. My board revision does not have support for that CPU; however, it is installed, which leads me to believed that other "non compatible" CPU's will work. Id like to know if anyone has succeeded in anything like this.
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Anonymous
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January 28, 2011 8:24:54 AM

Oh, I almost forgot!, BIOS updates!, damn!
Check the Intel BIOS updates that add support to new processors.
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January 29, 2011 5:59:13 AM

Quote:
Oh, I almost forgot!, BIOS updates!, damn!
Check the Intel BIOS updates that add support to new processors.


So if the bios supports the CPU it will work? Board revision doesnt matter?
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Anonymous
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January 29, 2011 7:26:51 AM

Depends on what the BIOS update is for, read what it adds support to, a better way is to e-mail the manufacturer, I always do that and they always give me answers.

Ask them what processors it will support after updating your BIOS, the BIOS update usually says what it's for and what support it adds to your motherboard.

I have never done a BIOS update so wait for someone else to clarify.
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January 31, 2011 2:02:35 PM

The bios update will be for the motherboard, not the processor. It may allow other processors to run, but they will update the compatiability list and say these processors supported after bios revision (insert number here)
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Anonymous
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February 1, 2011 8:54:00 AM

Yeah, thats what I meant.
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February 7, 2011 8:33:06 PM

Quote:
Yeah, thats what I meant.


So according to that link I have up top, my motherbaord supports n 800mhz fsb and up to a 3.4ghz cpu. Why would the revision i have not be compatible with the 1M L2 cache? Or is it, seeing as the celeron that came with the board is apparently not compatible with my specific revision. Im asking this because I decided to go with the P4 3.2GHz/1M/800
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Anonymous
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February 8, 2011 1:51:46 PM

Honestly, I'm not sure, ask the other guy
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!