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Samsung 120g SSD as boot drive and srt for HDD

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February 3, 2013 6:05:01 PM

I was wondering if it is possible to have a SSD as a boot drive and use intel smart response for the hard drive.
a c 179 G Storage
February 3, 2013 6:17:19 PM

Possible? Yes.

Good to do? probably not.

My take is to buy a suitably large ssd to hold the os and your normal complement of apps or games. That is probably 120gb or larger.

Use the hard drive to store large files such as video's and backups.

SRT(hard drive cacheing) might be useful if your workload is very specific with two characteristics.
1. You would need to access the same subset of data repeatedly to be able to find it in the srt cache.
But then, why not keep that data on the ssd in the first place?
2. The second requirement that would make srt a good thing would be when that referenced subset of data will change from time to time.
That way, the data could be loaded into the cache and read and reread to good effect.


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a c 159 G Storage
February 3, 2013 6:20:38 PM

While you should be able to do it(but it may take some work as the "array" for SRT has to be made in windows).

You will get a better experience just using the full 120 gigabyte SSD(leave some space for wear leveling to work) for windows/games and putting less essential programs as well as all your personal files on the hard drove.

Documents/Videos/Music/ect just do not need the SSD speed(mostly sequential reads something hard drives are still not bad at).

And what you install on the SSD will ALWAYS be fast while taking lets say 64gigabytes of SSD for cache and leaving whats left for windows would leave you very little room.
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a c 307 G Storage
February 3, 2013 6:32:08 PM

With modern 3rd generation SATA 3 6Gb/s solid state drives readily available an ssd cache is not necessary.

Here is a copy of my standard comment that I posted to numerous threads about ssd caching several years ago:

"There is a lot of misunderstanding about caching. Intel developed caching for clients and businesses that could not afford a large capacity ssd. Back when the concept was on the drawing board, Intel hoped clients and businesses would purchase a small 10Gb or 20GB for about $100.00. Microsoft Windows 7 and all software applications would remain on hard disk drives. The cache only produced a minor boost in performance. Intel hoped that once clients saw the slight performance boost they might be inclined to purchase a larger ssd.

Intel also researched the size of the cache. Intel determined that a 60GB ssd was the point where it made no sense to use the ssd as a cache for a hard drive. Instead if you have a 60GB or larger capacity ssd, then Windows 7 and software applications should be installed on the ssd to take full advantage of the ssd capabilities.

Since you are thinking of purchasing a large capacity ssd, it makes more sense to install Windows 7 and your software applications on the ssd. The ssd performance boost is much higher than the hard disk drive performance increase."

In addition to the comments I repeatedly posted, there was an additional comment posted by Christian Wood an official Intel representative:

"Will the Intel SRT (Smart Response Technology) give you a performance boost with a smaller SSD? yes it will. With that performance increase reach the level of a SSD as a boot drive? no it won't."
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February 3, 2013 9:03:56 PM

nukemaster said:
While you should be able to do it(but it may take some work as the "array" for SRT has to be made in windows).

You will get a better experience just using the full 120 gigabyte SSD(leave some space for wear leveling to work) for windows/games and putting less essential programs as well as all your personal files on the hard drove.

Documents/Videos/Music/ect just do not need the SSD speed(mostly sequential reads something hard drives are still not bad at).

And what you install on the SSD will ALWAYS be fast while taking lets say 64gigabytes of SSD for cache and leaving whats left for windows would leave you very little room.


So what you are saying that it can be done? If it can, is it possible to reserve a speacific amount of space that can be used for caching the hard drive?
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a c 159 G Storage
February 3, 2013 10:49:34 PM

The Intel RST(Rapid Store Technology) software allows you to set the amount of the SSD to use, What is left is able to be used as you see fit.

The catch here is the software runs once in windows. So my guess is it would be interesting to setup.

I could try it just before my Win8 trial expires(currently on a 64gigabyte SSD I had purchased for SRT. Honestly it worked well enough) as messing that up would not hurt things :) 

I was always guessing it would be more easy to set it up on another computer as Intel raid volumes carry over when moving drives from system to system. Then install windows on the extra space made available.

I just have never tried it and with a larger SSD, my FIRST option would always be to install windows on it.

What are you using the HDD for anyway?

My media center has a 128gigabyte M4 + 1tb HDD(5400 rpm notebook drive) and this system works very well for my use(I do have some games installed on this system.).

Keep in mind of course if you are MASSING games, then you would either have to move games off to the hard drive OR pic what games you want the speed on.

SRT would have to deal with the same issue. less played games would not get the cache performance boost.

You can actually install ALL games on the hard drive then create a folder on the SSD(Lets say c : \ games \) and use a junction("mklink" or "Link Junction Magic" among many other programs available to make this VERY easy) to make a link and copy(its a simple copy + paste then make the link) to games(or programs) you are wanting speed from. Then when you are not playing it any more, you can just break the junction and copy it back to the hard drive.

All this time windows will THINK the games(or even programs) are on the HDD, but they will perform like they are on the HDD.

I have made LOTS of use of junction points with my HDD/SSD setups and made a quick guide to show users how to do it. This should be enough to get anyone started. I still have lots of junctions just to keep all my steam games evenly across my SSD's on my other system(it used to keep the current ones on the SSD when I had SSD + HDD).

This approach lets YOU control what gets the speed, but should NOT be used to move parts of windows from drive to drive(for clear stability reasons).

I posted a link from another forum member as well(it is the second link in my guide right above "Why would I want to do this? ") to move the full USERS folder to the hard drive. This can save SSD space and also reduce unwanted write cycles.

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/294557-32-guide-move-...
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February 3, 2013 11:11:08 PM

nukemaster said:
The Intel RST(Rapid Store Technology) software allows you to set the amount of the SSD to use, What is left is able to be used as you see fit.

The catch here is the software runs once in windows. So my guess is it would be interesting to setup.

I could try it just before my Win8 trial expires(currently on a 64gigabyte SSD I had purchased for SRT. Honestly it worked well enough) as messing that up would not hurt things :) 

I was always guessing it would be more easy to set it up on another computer as Intel raid volumes carry over when moving drives from system to system. Then install windows on the extra space made available.

I just have never tried it and with a larger SSD, my FIRST option would always be to install windows on it.

What are you using the HDD for anyway?

My media center has a 128gigabyte M4 + 1tb HDD(5400 rpm notebook drive) and this system works very well for my use(I do have some games installed on this system.).

Keep in mind of course if you are MASSING games, then you would either have to move games off to the hard drive OR pic what games you want the speed on.

Ok. I will use the hard drive for main storage"pictures, videos, music, etc" and install Microsoft office on the hard drive, I don't really care for speed with Microsoft Office, and the ssd is going to have Windows, web browsers, games, Sony Vagas, and the hardware drivers.
SRT would have to deal with the same issue. less played games would not get the cache performance boost.

You can actually install ALL games on the hard drive then create a folder on the SSD(Lets say c : \ games \) and use a junction("mklink" or "Link Junction Magic" among many other programs available to make this VERY easy) to make a link and copy(its a simple copy + paste then make the link) to games(or programs) you are wanting speed from. Then when you are not playing it any more, you can just break the junction and copy it back to the hard drive.

All this time windows will THINK the games(or even programs) are on the HDD, but they will perform like they are on the HDD.

I have made LOTS of use of junction points with my HDD/SSD setups and made a quick guide to show users how to do it. This should be enough to get anyone started. I still have lots of junctions just to keep all my steam games evenly across my SSD's on my other system(it used to keep the current ones on the SSD when I had SSD + HDD).

This approach lets YOU control what gets the speed, but should NOT be used to move parts of windows from drive to drive(for clear stability reasons).

I posted a link from another forum member as well(it is the second link in my guide right above "Why would I want to do this? ") to move the full USERS folder to the hard drive. This can save SSD space and also reduce unwanted write cycles.

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/294557-32-guide-move-...


I going to use the ssd for windows, hardware drivers, and a few games. The Hard drive is going to be used for mutimedia and a few arcade games. I will also install microsoft office on the hard drive, because I really don't really care for speed on Microsoft Office.
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a c 159 G Storage
February 3, 2013 11:19:51 PM

Then why do you want to run SRT on the hard drive if you do not need the speed? more free space on the SSD will just help it manage the flash write cycles better.
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February 4, 2013 12:07:10 AM

nukemaster said:
Then why do you want to run SRT on the hard drive if you do not need the speed? more free space on the SSD will just help it manage the flash write cycles better.


Well I really just wanted to know if it is possible to have a boot ssd and use the same ssd for hard drive cache, because I think it can be usfull at some point in time, I can't think of a senerio example, but I think it can be usfull for something.
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a c 159 G Storage
February 4, 2013 12:25:19 AM

It would be interesting to say the least, but you would almost have to try it(I am almost sure any attempt would have to be made on another SRT computer first then the 2 drives transferred over and windows installed on the extra section of drive.) to see what it does.

I have never tried it that way.

Any time you remove SRT or ADD it, the SSD is erased or at least it is in the normal configuration just like building an array(that is basically what it is).
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February 4, 2013 12:37:54 AM

1988048,4,140342 said:
With modern 3rd generation SATA 3 6Gb/s solid state drives readily available an ssd cache is not necessary.

Here is a copy of my standard comment that I posted to numerous threads about ssd caching several years ago:

"There is a lot of misunderstanding about caching. Intel developed caching for clients and businesses that could not afford a large capacity ssd. Back when the concept was on the drawing board, Intel hoped clients and businesses would purchase a small 10Gb or 20GB for about $100.00. Microsoft Windows 7 and all software applications would remain on hard disk drives. The cache only produced a minor boost in performance. Intel hoped that once clients saw the slight performance boost they might be inclined to purchase a larger ssd.

Intel also researched the size of the cache. Intel determined that a 60GB ssd was the point where it made no sense to use the ssd as a cache for a hard drive. Instead if you have a 60GB or larger capacity ssd, then Windows 7 and software applications should be installed on the ssd to take full advantage of the ssd capabilities.

Since you are thinking of purchasing a large capacity ssd, it makes more sense to install Windows 7 and your software applications on the ssd. The ssd performance boost is much higher than the hard disk drive performance increase."

In addition to the comments I repeatedly posted, there was an additional comment posted by Christian Wood an official Intel representative:

Quote:
What I ment was that I will be installing Window 7 on the ssd and I plan to use a section of the free space on My ssd for srt to speedup some programs that I might have on the hard drive.
"Will the Intel SRT (Smart Response Technology) give you a performance boost with a smaller SSD? yes it will. With that performance increase reach the level of a SSD as a boot drive? no it won't."
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