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LGA 1155 Motherboard

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September 20, 2011 5:40:36 PM

Im upgrading my rig w/ the core i5 2500k and i was wondering which motherboard i should buy?
I plan on overclocking this cpu

Im interested in the ASrock Extreme4 p67, but im confused on which to buy. out of these 2 which is the latest/best?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

:sweat:  whats the difference??? :pfff: 

And are they xfire/sli ready?

Anyone recommend I buy a different board? Can I get a better motherboard for about the same price??

More about : lga 1155 motherboard

a c 121 V Motherboard
a b K Overclocking
September 20, 2011 5:52:43 PM

I would suggest not going with an ASRock board...

Asus, Gigabyte (and more recently) MSI are going to be a much better quality board, that are going to be more stable, and last longer.

The big difference between the 2 ASRocks is that the GEN3 board offers 2 PCIe x16 lanes, instead of 1 @16x So for SLI it is better (although not necessary.)
Related resources
a c 75 V Motherboard
a b K Overclocking
September 20, 2011 6:08:32 PM

I does appear that both boards are SLI/Crossfire ready. After checking out both boards the ASRock P67 Extreme4 GEN3 has 2 PCI-e 16x slots while the ASRock P67 Extreme4 has 3 PCI-e 16x slots. So if you need the extra slot that is why you go with the ASRock P67 Extreme4.

Christian Wood
Intel Enthusiast Team
September 20, 2011 6:11:14 PM

Which is best for overclocking and gaming

z68 or p67
September 20, 2011 6:12:46 PM

jaquith said:
If you have plans for a high OC >4.5GHz then I'd consider the ASUS P8Z68-V PRO -> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Here's an average of 10 MOBO of each:
Extreme4 4.68GHz 1.394v

P8Z68-V PRO 4.8GHz 1.371v


thanks for the suggestion but im looking for something around $100-160
September 20, 2011 6:14:08 PM

IntelEnthusiast said:
I does appear that both boards are SLI/Crossfire ready. After checking out both boards the ASRock P67 Extreme4 GEN3 has 2 PCI-e 16x slots while the ASRock P67 Extreme4 has 3 PCI-e 16x slots. So if you need the extra slot that is why you go with the ASRock P67 Extreme4.

Christian Wood
Intel Enthusiast Team


so why does one say b3 and the other says gen 3?
a c 715 V Motherboard
a b K Overclocking
September 20, 2011 6:25:39 PM

The cheapest high OC Z68 is the ASUS P8Z68-V PRO.

The PCIe revision 3.0 is useless unless you have an Ivy Bridge and a PCIe 3.0 GPU and IMO a GTX 590 killer i.e. 40%+ faster.
September 20, 2011 6:39:10 PM

They both have 3 PCIe slots, and they both run in 8x/8x when in SLI/Crossfire, the 3rd slot is 4x.

But the GEN3 has support for PCI3.0!! It is the newer model of the two and definitely the one to go for.
It looks better as a bonus :) 


There is no difference between OC with the P67 or Z68, they are both unlocked, unlike the H67. The Z68 has additional features such as Integrated Graphics, SSD-caching & Intel Virtu.
September 20, 2011 6:54:08 PM

Actually in that particular model, the Z68 has V8+4 power phase design so it would be better for overclocking.

Oh and to your original question, no you probably wont find a better one for the same price. ASRock are relatively cheap considering their features. But I've heard good things about them.

I've read reviews of the Z68 extreme4 hitting 5Ghz no problem.
Depending on what your using it for it may be worth going to that model for the additional features and better power.
September 20, 2011 7:11:46 PM

Im looking for 3 things:

reliability/stability
overclocking
decently priced
a c 715 V Motherboard
a b K Overclocking
September 20, 2011 7:34:57 PM

JayBob said:
Actually in that particular model, the Z68 has V8+4 power phase design so it would be better for overclocking.

Oh and to your original question, no you probably wont find a better one for the same price. ASRock are relatively cheap considering their features. But I've heard good things about them.

I've read reviews of the Z68 extreme4 hitting 5Ghz no problem.
Depending on what your using it for it may be worth going to that model for the additional features and better power.

It would be nice if that were all so true, but it's not. Every MOBO OC's differently and there's a good correlation to LOW vCore to HIGH Phase. Just look at the averages for vCore I posted above. High vCore = High Temps ; High Temps = Higher instability and Lower obtainable and stable OC. High Temps = Thermal Limit, note your Tmax for your CPU.

It is extremely difficult to obtain a 5GHz OC on the current 2500K/2600K CPUs.

Again, the PCIe 3.0 for GPU PCIe lanes means ZERO with both and Ivy Bridge CPU AND PCIe 3.0 GPU. Per the example above, the GTX 590 saturates the x8 PCIe 2.0 barely and won't touch the x16 PCIe 2.0. SO IF you can afford to 2-WAY SLI 'quad' the GTX 590 and when it comes in PCIe 3.0 flavor AND you eBay your 2500K/2600K CPU then yep the PCIe 3.0 'GEN 3' will indeed help.

However, I am much more interested in PCIe 3.0 compliant 'clean' chipsets to offset the 'shared' bandwidth of other devices that today need it more. PCIe 3.0 compliant 'clean' is several months away especially since INTEL screwed-up on the LGA 2011/SB-E :fou:  hint - wink - wink - Chris
a c 715 V Motherboard
a b K Overclocking
September 20, 2011 7:36:47 PM

destram25 said:
Im looking for 3 things:

reliability/stability
overclocking
decently priced

DEFINE 'overclocking'? What OC? Need a number in GHz.

DEFINE 'Total Budget'? I assume you want to game...

Another note Lower vCore = Longer CPU Life and Stability...
September 20, 2011 7:42:58 PM

I am running an asrock P67 extreme4 Mobo B3.

I have an i5 2500k sandybridge chip.

I have acheived max sustainable (prime tested) OC of 4.8 GHZ

I run a 24/7 4.5Ghz oc with my cooling done by Antec H20 [out of the box water solution]

I run 2x AMD 6850's in cross fire

I HAve never had a problem wit this board.. I was a noob OC'er.. but followed the tips on this forum to get nice overclocks and the board never held me back.

your biggest problem getting to higher oc's will be how you take care of heat dissipation as the stock i5 cooler will NOT handle the extra heat that OC'ing produces.

Member 4ryan6 used an Asrock extreme4 Mobo [ same as mine as the newer Gen3 board and Z68 boards were not out at the time] to get overclocks exceeding 5.0Ghz; although he used custom watercooling to take care of the heat issues that arise from running the 2500k processor at such speeds.

So my advice from experience is go with the Asrock extreme4 as it does the job with no problems.

Regards
Lex
September 20, 2011 10:01:57 PM

My goal is to stablely overclock the 2500k to 4.5ghz and my budget is around $150ish
a c 715 V Motherboard
a b K Overclocking
September 20, 2011 10:24:59 PM

Here's the problem, again, higher vCore = Higher Temps = More $ to cool.

So if you're willing to spend +$50~+$100 to cool the CPU then sure the ASRock, but otherwise spend the few bucks more for a good MOBO.

It's a balancing act, and 'I get budgets' -- I'm trying seemingly an uphill battle to convince you to spend a little extra for a better quality MOBO. I 'wish' they were all the same, it would make it really easy to decide.

ASUS P8Z68-V PRO - http://usa.asus.com/Motherboards/Intel_Socket_1155/P8Z6...
16 Phase (12-phase for CPU, 4-phase for iGPU)

ASRock P67 EXTREME4 (B3) - http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.asp?Model=P67%20Extre...
8 + 2 Power Phase Design

Keep in mind ASUS owns ASRock, the ASRock's are a stripped-down versions of ASUS.

I'm long past caring about 'Best Answer' I've got about 580+ so it makes ZERO difference to me which you buy. IF I didn't have the vCore data then I'd be guessing -- that's not the case.

IMO - Search CPU-z Validation data for whatever MOBO's your considering, note the OC in GHz and the vCore.
a c 715 V Motherboard
a b K Overclocking
September 21, 2011 12:07:04 AM

IF you don't care about any of the Z68 doodads then the ASUS P8P67 PRO ~$175.
September 21, 2011 12:19:42 AM

jaquith said:
It would be nice if that were all so true, but it's not. Every MOBO OC's differently and there's a good correlation to LOW vCore to HIGH Phase. Just look at the averages for vCore I posted above. High vCore = High Temps ; High Temps = Higher instability and Lower obtainable and stable OC. High Temps = Thermal Limit, note your Tmax for your CPU.

It is extremely difficult to obtain a 5GHz OC on the current 2500K/2600K CPUs.

Again, the PCIe 3.0 for GPU PCIe lanes means ZERO with both and Ivy Bridge CPU AND PCIe 3.0 GPU. Per the example above, the GTX 590 saturates the x8 PCIe 2.0 barely and won't touch the x16 PCIe 2.0. SO IF you can afford to 2-WAY SLI 'quad' the GTX 590 and when it comes in PCIe 3.0 flavor AND you eBay your 2500K/2600K CPU then yep the PCIe 3.0 'GEN 3' will indeed help.

However, I am much more interested in PCIe 3.0 compliant 'clean' chipsets to offset the 'shared' bandwidth of other devices that today need it more. PCIe 3.0 compliant 'clean' is several months away especially since INTEL screwed-up on the LGA 2011/SB-E :fou:  hint - wink - wink - Chris


Im not sure I understand what you are trying to argue. That every MB is different so there is no gaurantee 8+4 phase power design will be better than 8+2??? Thats a bit fresh, I think you just like to argue. GENERALLY they will have cleaner power and be able to OC better.

Here is my source Re: reaching 5Ghz(nice review on the board as well)
http://www.vortez.net/articles_pages/asrock_z68_extreme...

You can also find many examples in various forums of users with this Board reaching 5Ghz, and the MB does not hold them back.

ATM PCIe3.0 means nothing because there are no PCIe3.0 boards or Ivy Bridge, but at least it is compatible with them both for when they do come out. How is there a downside?!?
Either way, both boards run PCIe(16x) or SLI/Crossfire(8x/8x) so there is no difference, just added support for later.

Get the GEN3.
a c 715 V Motherboard
a b K Overclocking
September 21, 2011 1:03:08 AM

The Phase to the CPU is what's important; you might want to look at the spreadsheets and in particular the 2nd where the vCore is listed -> http://www.overclock.net/intel-motherboards/916189-offi...

While 1.45v is barely acceptable {it's HOT}, the ASUS P8P67 Pro can do it with 1.32v~1.34v which is significantly better, cooler and would be more stable.

Again, the biggest improvement for the PCIe 3.0 vs PCIe 2.x will be the bandwidth gains on the chipset side vs the GPU's for a long period of time. Example if you took the best and most expensive GPUs in SLI and simply made both PCIe 2 and 3 versions of the same GPU the FPS gain would be 0~2FPS. The reason the GPU's simply are not saturating the x8 lanes of the PCIe 2.0, forget PCIe 2.0 x16, and it's laughable with the PCIe 3.0 x16.

By the time the PCIe 2.0 x16 same as PCIe 3.0 x8 are saturated from ANY GPU there will be a new generation of Intel CPU's -- past the Ivy Bridge -- if we're lucky the Haswell series.

So the PCIe rev 3.0 for (GPU) is not going to be helping you/me or anyone for years to come. Sure the GPU's will be faster but just not saturating the PCIe lanes. Excellent article on saturation -> http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GTX_480_PCI-E... and another x8/x8 vs x16/x16 -> http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/p67-gaming-3-way-sl...

No - "I think you just like to argue" I really hate arguing -- but I dislike misinformation. I understand your 'logic vs reality' assumptions.
September 21, 2011 1:25:12 AM

I was talking about the z68 v p67 in the extreme4 model as per my OP when I was comparing OC so maybe I misunderstood your post. They are nearly identical so you would assume the z68 with 8+4 would be better??

Correct me if I'm wrong but the spreadsheet only shows 1 result for the Extreme4 Z68 model, pretty hard to go off that, chances are it's the chip.
The other Extreme4 results are for the P67 which has 8+2, not 8+4, kind of supporting my arguement in the first place.

I have not really looked into the P8P67 Pro boards but they may entirely different. There are over 10 results for that board in the spreadsheet, and only 2 hit 5Ghz around that temp, both with 2600k's.
I would require further research to make better judgement.

Thanks for the info regarding saturation etc, some interesting reading.

I didnt mean to come across rude to start with I think we just misunderstood each other.
a c 715 V Motherboard
a b K Overclocking
September 21, 2011 1:34:13 AM

I'm 'trying' to recommend a different MOBO because of vCore and OC'ing.... ;) 

The 8+2 vs 8+4 the differences are to the iGPU, and since the OP is looking at discrete GPU(s) the iGPU phases are more less meaningless.

I'm NOT basing what I know on (1) set of spreadsheets. As I said it makes ZIP impact to me what the OP chooses - I 'get' $. I also 'get' value for what you need. If the OP only wanted 4.0GHz~4.2GHz then sure get the ASRock. I've recommend the Extreme4 series plenty of times, but I have to be honest with what I know and have seen.

We're cool! :) 
September 21, 2011 1:36:22 AM

Actually, 4 of 13 hit 5+ at under 1.35v! I missed two of them :p 

That's awesome!

That board is a more expensive than the Extreme4 here in Oz, the P67 Asus is more expensive than the Z68 ASrock.

I guess you get what you pay for in the end :) 

I have heard real good things about ASRock though, I have an Extreme4 Gen3 & 2500k on the way, hopefully be here tomorrow :) 
September 21, 2011 1:45:42 AM

So your certain the +2 difference is irrelevant to the CPU?

I thought it still had some impact but I'll look into it further.

This is good, learning new stuff. Although we have totally hijacked the OP's thread lol. At least he has something to think about.

Nice Futurama Avatar too "This Saturday will now be known as Fryyyday" Lol
a c 715 V Motherboard
a b K Overclocking
September 21, 2011 2:08:08 AM

Yep irrelevant. The example 8+2+2 on a Z68 typically means 8 Phases to CPU, 2 Phases to RAM and 2 Phases to iGPU. Most good Z68's are, if equipped, 4 Phases to iGPU -- many Gigabyte Z68's have no iGPU i.e. not support Virtu.

It would be nice to cherry-pick but you need to play the odds and average vCore to GHz. Also, no (2) SB CPU's are alike either so OC instructions including vCore may work flawlessly on one and fail miserably on another.

Good Luck! :) 
September 21, 2011 2:15:22 AM

so get the asrock extreme4 gen3?
September 21, 2011 2:33:46 AM

If it is out of the original 2 boards, I would get the Gen3.

If you are willing to pay $45 extra(as per Newegg) then get the board suggested by Jaquith, especially if you plan on OCing.

September 21, 2011 9:30:58 AM

destram25 said:
My goal is to stablely overclock the 2500k to 4.5ghz and my budget is around $150ish


Then get an Asrock and big Air

Jaquith has been talking about vcore and heat; he is right that the higher the vcore voltage required to maintain a stable overclock the more heat you produce. And the more heat you produce the less efficient ur CPU becomes so it can be a pain.


I can not disagree with Jaquiths figures on differences between MOBO efficiency in respect of vcore requirements, but note that he is using averages over 10 boards.

I can tell you that my board and CPU set up on air achieved the following on AIR but it was running at an average of 80C over the 4 cores and too close to TJ for my comfort: [Click the banner below]



To be honest 4.3Ghz 24/7 solution would be tops for my set up on anything but top end aircooling solution... Thats why I went to AntecKuhlerH20920.Once I got that then heat problems reduced and it took less vcore to maintain stability at any given Ghz rating. So heat and vcore kind of wrap around each other like snakes.. it seems the hotter it gets the less efficient the CPU is and therefore the more voltage that you require to maintain a stable overclock. Conversely the cooler you can keep the CPU the more efficient it seems to be and the less voltage you need to maintain the same speed overclock.



regards
Lex
a c 715 V Motherboard
a b K Overclocking
September 21, 2011 3:29:04 PM

I recently had a l-o-n-g post OC'ing a ASUS P8P67 WS Revolution equipped with an 18 Phase VRM, cheap HSF Xigmatek Gaia SD1283, and it was a mother to get a 4.5GHz in the 70's on air. Further, the OP required a 24-hour Prime95 + Blend to be considered stable for the OP purposes. What was learned was to ignore the complex OC'ing Guides {VRM/LLC}, at least for ~mid 4GHz's, and focus on manually setting the vCore with as little other changes as possible; KISS method. The reason I mention this is because those other settings also added additional heat.

One of the best OC Guides is Clunk's -> http://www.clunk.org.uk/forums/overclocking/39184-p67-s...

Now if you want higher OC then be prepared to look at water if you want hours of game play or whatever long term 'load' to the CPU.

ASUS P8P67 WS Revolution i5-2500K @ 4.5GHz
AI Overclock Tuner: Manual
By All Cores: 45
BCLK/PEG Frequency:100
EPU Power Saving: Disabled
CPU Manual Voltage: 1.36
/Updated BIOS - Phase Control: Standard ; BIOS Default Extreme
/Manually setting RAM: Frequency, CAS Timings, DRAM Voltage

Choosing averages to me seemed to be the most honest approach rather than looking at vCore highs or lows.

Again, the above is (1) one case, and the next ASUS WS might be completely different. The major reason I don't post in the OC'ing section is because there's no one size fits all.

I also mentioned the ASUS P8P67 PRO ~$175.
September 21, 2011 8:25:52 PM

jaquith said:
I recently had a l-o-n-g post OC'ing a ASUS P8P67 WS Revolution equipped with an 18 Phase VRM, cheap HSF Xigmatek Gaia SD1283, and it was a mother to get a 4.5GHz in the 70's on air. Further, the OP required a 24-hour Prime95 + Blend to be considered stable for the OP purposes. What was learned was to ignore the complex OC'ing Guides {VRM/LLC}, at least for ~mid 4GHz's, and focus on manually setting the vCore with as little other changes as possible; KISS method. The reason I mention this is because those other settings also added additional heat.

One of the best OC Guides is Clunk's -> http://www.clunk.org.uk/forums/overclocking/39184-p67-s...

Now if you want higher OC then be prepared to look at water if you want hours of game play or whatever long term 'load' to the CPU.

ASUS P8P67 WS Revolution i5-2500K @ 4.5GHz
AI Overclock Tuner: Manual
By All Cores: 45
BCLK/PEG Frequency:100
EPU Power Saving: Disabled
CPU Manual Voltage: 1.36
/Updated BIOS - Phase Control: Standard ; BIOS Default Extreme
/Manually setting RAM: Frequency, CAS Timings, DRAM Voltage

Choosing averages to me seemed to be the most honest approach rather than looking at vCore highs or lows.

Again, the above is (1) one case, and the next ASUS WS might be completely different. The major reason I don't post in the OC'ing section is because there's no one size fits all.

I also mentioned the ASUS P8P67 PRO ~$175.


I agree with jaquith -OC'ing by its very nature can not be nailed down to a one size fits all solution - performance variables between actual CPU's of the same ilk - differences in the efficiencies of cooling solutions - geographical climate differences (are trying to OC in an outhouse in alaska in the middle of winter.. or is your site located in the middle of the sahara desert) all contribute to how your particular machine will operate.

In fact my purpose here is to share my experience (and I state right here that this build was my first ever attempt at either a build or an OC experiment); It is not my purpose to disagree with jaquith or score points.. I note on re reading my posts it may seem that I have been taking jaquith on, that was not my intent, but in the event that I have created such an impression.. I honestly apologise.


I did read the OC guide written by Clunk; if i remember correctly it was based on an Asus or Gigabyte board. 4Ryan6 wrote a guide in this forums advising on the same fixed voltage (set vcore to a fixed sum manually through bios) method of OC'ing and I tried this initially. Eventually I switched to using a method that required the manipulation of the offset voltage level and the max turbo volt setting. I did this because when the machine is at idle (1600Mhz) i do not have my CPU bombarded with 1.34v charges, but instead only use charges of between 0.980v and 1.08v. I believe this lets my CPU run cooler during non strenuous tasks and hope to extend the chips life.

I agree that most other things can be left alone... but advise that on the ASrock board, there was an advantage to manipulating the vdroop controller to ensure that the system did not automatically over volt the CPU when trying to compensate for vdroop when entering turbo mode.

Regards
Lex
a c 715 V Motherboard
a b K Overclocking
September 21, 2011 9:12:09 PM

@Lex - no I didn't feel we had anything but the same intentions :)  We seem to be totally on the same page.

I agree that different guides are driven by MOBO's. The 4.5GHz+~5.0GHz is where all hell breaks loose and you're needing to turn-on everything power related and in a 'Forum' it's nearly impossible to advise people. You run into Thermal Limits, vDroop, Phase Control, VRM/LLC, not to mention the CPU itself one better than another.

The ASUS P8P67 PRO and P8Z68-V PRO both have Phase and LLC {Load-Line Calibration}. Sometimes it's like a dog chasing its' tail LLC <-> vCore which became a problem at least for 4.5GHz.

The reality of the situation and something to think about is 'how often are 'we' at 100% load' and so what settings are better for 'your real environment.'

This is why I avoid the OC section like the plague. I'd have a very flat head ;) 
September 22, 2011 1:31:48 AM

Cheers Friend :sol:  . You are right about real world use - For me 1600Mhz most of the time LOL - I use my com for business during week - in the weekend i might do some gaming for fun - probably could have built something with an intel 2300 locked multiplier cpu that would have done the job for me;but I am a bit of an experimenter and wanted to see what I could do.
!