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New graphics card

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September 11, 2010 7:59:35 PM

Hi all,
I am buying someone a new gpu.

There system: biostar am2+ motherboard

Amd phonem 9550 2.2ghz quad

4gb ddr2 800mhz ram

and a power win atx 450w power supply. http://www.power-win.com/en/p/43-switching_power_supply.... this is the link for the psu.

At the moment he is running the onboard gpu ( hd 3200 ) with windows 7 32bit and a 1680x1050 monitor.

the gpus i am looking to get him are radeon hd 3870/ 3850/ 4650

or geforce 8800gt/ 9600 gt

http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/graphics/ati-rad...

As the link above states a 450w will run the 3870 and 3850 gpus but recommended is 550w power supply.

http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/graphics/ati-rad...

The one above state 400w so that will be fine i hope

Both the nvidia cards require a 400w power supply too so they should be ok.

So it is just the 3870 and 3850 and these are the cards i was hoping to get, would they run with this power supply.

Any help is great thanks

More about : graphics card

a c 235 U Graphics card
a c 165 ) Power supply
September 11, 2010 8:17:56 PM

the link to your PSU does not work but a generic 450w PSU will run any of the video cards you mentioned. The 8800GT would be the better of the bunch followed by the ATI 3870 / Nvidia 9600GT.
a b U Graphics card
a b ) Power supply
September 11, 2010 8:24:03 PM

Holy crap. A 9600GT goes for $110 @ NewEgg.com? Might as well get an ATI 5770 or 5750 at that point! LOL

Where do you plan to purchase this video card, and how much is it? Being older generation cards, sometimes the prices on them actually go UP as they fade out of usefulness. I guess my point would be just to make sure you're not paying too much for what you're looking at getting.

Depending on the pricing you're seeing, the ATI 5770 and ATI 5750 both purportedly use less power than the 8800GT, and both outperform it as well. Being current generation GPUs, they'll also have better driver support for the long term. I'd only go with the 5750 though if it's the same price or cheaper than what you're planning on.

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2009/11/06/sa...

ATI 5750 $119
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Related resources
September 11, 2010 8:28:44 PM

http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/video_lookup.php?cpu=...

From this benchmark the hd3870 is just above the 8800gt, but to be honest he likes ati and still uses them in his old system. is there any benifits with the 8800gt over the hd3870.

Regarding to the power supply, what about the ampage, im not up to scratch on ampage or psus at the min. whats your opinion.
a b U Graphics card
a b ) Power supply
September 11, 2010 8:31:07 PM

The total Amps on the +12V rail is what's most important for your Graphics Card. Ultimately, that has a direct impact on the wattage it can supply to the graphics card.
a b U Graphics card
a b ) Power supply
September 11, 2010 8:34:06 PM

Quote:

# Input voltage: 115 / 230 VAC (auto range).
# Input current (rms): 10Amp @ 115VAC; 5Amp @ 230VAC.
# Inrush current: 65A @ 115VAC, 130A @ 230VAC cold start at 25 deg C.
# Efficiency: > 70% typical at full load.


However if you download the PDF, it says the 450W has a MAX 17A on the +12V rail. That means it's capable of a MAX of 204 Watts over the +12V rail. I believe I saw an image earlier today which stated the MAX draw on the ATI 5750 was 86W if I recall correctly. Have to couple that with the CPU's draw (95W), plus degradation in the PSU, and quality factors, DVD/CD Drives, Hard Drives, etc.


Source: http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1105/1/

It could cut it fairly close. I believe the Max Board Power on an 8800GT is 110W, so the ATI 5750 would actually be less demand on the PSU.
a c 235 U Graphics card
a c 165 ) Power supply
September 11, 2010 8:46:08 PM

boden08 said:
http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/video_lookup.php?cpu=...

From this benchmark the hd3870 is just above the 8800gt, but to be honest he likes ati and still uses them in his old system. is there any benifits with the 8800gt over the hd3870.

Regarding to the power supply, what about the ampage, im not up to scratch on ampage or psus at the min. whats your opinion.


its a pretty generic PSU. 17a on the 12v is pretty low for a 450w and with 70% efficiency no less (although not a shock)

the 8800GT is a better card then the 3870 but frankly I would go with the ATI 5670 or 5750 (if he has the money). The ATI 5670 is in the same ballpark as the ATI 3870 & Nvidia 8800GT but much more energy efficient.


here's Toms hierarchy chart for your reference.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-460-rad...
September 11, 2010 8:49:35 PM

All the cards are off ebay, so nothing like a new price card. but i have been buying from the ebay shops with refurbished cards go so much cheaper.

This is what i have found

RADEON HD 3850 Specifications

•Core clock: 670 MHz
•Unified processors: 320
•16 texture units, 16 blending units
•Effective memory frequency: 1660 MHz (2*830 MHz)
•Memory type: GDDR3
•Memory size: 256 MB
•Memory bandwidth: 53 GB/sec.
•Maximum theoretical fill rate: 10.7 gigapixel per second.
•Theoretical texture sampling rate: 10.7 gigatexel per second.
•Two CrossFireX connectors
•PCI Express 2.0 x16
•2 x DVI-I Dual Link, 2560x1600 video output
•TV-Out, HDTV-Out, HDCP support, HDMI adapter
•Power consumption: up to 95 W

95w power consumption. but this is a 256mb and the one i am looking at is 512.

So if i got this card do you think the power supply would be fine

Thanks for all you help so far
a b U Graphics card
a b ) Power supply
September 11, 2010 8:52:36 PM

I agree with ct1615, the 70% efficiency part doesn't help a whole lot. Also have to keep in mind, that PSU's degrade over time. So if this thing is 2-3 years old even, it's 17A max @ 204W may not even be reliable, even regardless of the 70% efficiency issue.

The BEST option all in all, would be to get him a better quality (new) power supply. Minimum, I'd liking the ATI 5750 idea if you can find one cheap, simply because it draws the least power.
a c 235 U Graphics card
a c 165 ) Power supply
September 11, 2010 8:55:37 PM

you will be able to run that card with no issue on the PSU although the ATI 4670 512mb DDR3 will give you similar performance and run cooler (it requires even less power)
September 11, 2010 9:02:57 PM

The system is less than 6 months old and had a shop build it for him, i did say to him that some of the components are value like the ram and power supply and so on.

Ok what do you think to the hd 4650. He is not bothered too much as long as it is better than his onboard hd 3200 lol. the hd 4650 only requires a 400w power supply but can not find the power draw for this card.

I would get him a new psu but i dont have the funds and dont want to end up rebuilding his system. i just decided to get him a gpu that is better than the one he has got, looking at his system i knew i was going to come across some problems like this but i am just trying to find the best that his system would run and still have wattage to play about with.

Thanks again
September 11, 2010 9:06:32 PM

so Would either of you run the hd 3850 on this psu then or go with the 4650 to play it safe
a c 235 U Graphics card
a c 165 ) Power supply
September 11, 2010 9:09:54 PM

that PC is six months old?? if it was bought in North America or England, he got ripped off. the ATI 4650 draws about 50w at load. What is the budget for the card and where are you buying it from? Most of the cards you mention are rather old (in video card years)
a b U Graphics card
a b ) Power supply
September 11, 2010 9:13:20 PM

ct1615 said:
that PC is six months old?? if it was bought in North America or England, he got ripped off. the ATI 4650 draws about 50w at load. What is the budget for the card and where are you buying it from? Most of the cards you mention are rather old (in video card years)


LOL It's certainly not up to date technology, but we don't know how much he paid for it either. :)  Unless I missed that part further above.
September 11, 2010 9:22:36 PM

Yes i live in the uk lol, and yes he got ripped off. i cant remember how much he paid for it but i could of build a better system for what he paid. The cards i am looking at are only about 40-50 pound as they are either refurbished or working second hand off ebay. he dosen't do a lot of gaming but he has been playing some of his games and they are jumping or the shaders are not great as the monitor he is playing them on is 1680x1050.

Yes the cards are old but well out perform the onboard 3200, even his desktop is 3-4 resolutions down something on the lines of 1280x1024 and looks bad. he plays his games on the same resolution or some even lower so thats what the problem is .

Thanks again
a b U Graphics card
a b ) Power supply
September 11, 2010 9:31:25 PM

Yeah, @ 1680x1050 integrated graphics aren't going to cut it for games. LOL
a c 235 U Graphics card
a c 165 ) Power supply
September 11, 2010 9:34:34 PM

i would go with the ATI 4670 if you can find it. the ATI 4650 as a fall back. both would be worlds better then the 3200 chip.
September 11, 2010 9:34:58 PM

lol, so yes that is the main problem.

so would you run the hd 3850 on that psu or would it be better to get the 4650 and be safe. Even the 4650 will be a great improvement on his graphic.

Waht would your opinion be.
September 11, 2010 9:37:07 PM

ok ct1615, the 4670 is a bit out of my price range but may come across one, but out the 2 cards i have mentioned you would go with the 4650, thanks for your help.

what would your choice be jerreece
a c 235 U Graphics card
a c 165 ) Power supply
September 11, 2010 9:38:45 PM

it will run the 3850 but the 3850 draws a lot of power and runs hot for what you get.

if the the Nvidia 9600GT is still an option get that. Its a faster card and uses far less power.


a c 235 U Graphics card
a c 165 ) Power supply
September 11, 2010 9:40:17 PM

boden08 said:
ok ct1615, the 4670 is a bit out of my price range but may come across one, but out the 2 cards i have mentioned you would go with the 4650, thanks for your help.

what would your choice be jerreece


the 4650 is a notch below the 3850 in performance but with the cooler running temps and less power requirement I would go with the 4650.
a b U Graphics card
a b ) Power supply
September 11, 2010 9:41:03 PM

Here, I actually found a Team Fortress 2 benchmark with an ATi 4650!!
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/HIS/HD_4650_iSilence...



You can see the 9600GT beats out the 4650 substantially.

Power wise, the ATI 4650 is probably his best option. The above benchmark was with AA & AF turned up. So he could realistically see better performance than indicated here by reducing settings.
September 11, 2010 9:47:45 PM

the power consumption for the 9600 gt is only slightly more than the hd 4650.

Ok i agree with you both on the 9600 gt, and it should run fine with this psu, i will start searching to find one but if i can not get one in my budget go for the 4650.
a b U Graphics card
a b ) Power supply
September 11, 2010 9:50:09 PM

Actually, the 9600GT is about 95W.

The ATI 4650 was about 48 to 55W.
September 11, 2010 9:53:32 PM

just found a 9600 gt and the new pcd design has reduced the power to 59w from 95. the 95w cards are so much cheaper lol
a c 235 U Graphics card
a c 165 ) Power supply
September 11, 2010 9:54:43 PM

those are the EE cards (59w), they are junk
a b U Graphics card
a b ) Power supply
September 11, 2010 9:56:11 PM

boden08 said:
just found a 9600 gt and the new pcd design has reduced the power to 59w from 95. the 95w cards are so much cheaper lol


If you can get a 9600GT with a 59W TDP, I'd go that way as it should perform better. I guess my biggest concern is just having a low quality PSU with a 70% efficiency rating, that pushes only 17A (204W) on the +12V. I wouldn't want to stretch it so it's running at 100% capability all the time.

The ATI 4650 is the SAFE option, and looks like it should play Team Fortress 2 @ 1680x1050 as long as he doesn't go crazy with AA/AF settings. The 9600GT would be his performance option, and if you can find a cost effective 59W designed unit, that'd be the smart choice I think all things considered.
a b U Graphics card
a b ) Power supply
September 11, 2010 9:57:25 PM

ct1615 said:
those are the EE cards (59w), they are junk


Have not seen reviews on those. Do they perform poorly?
a c 235 U Graphics card
a c 165 ) Power supply
September 11, 2010 9:58:27 PM

jerreece said:
If you can get a 9600GT with a 59W TDP, I'd go that way as it should perform better. .


those EE cards are under clocked compared to the standard versions and often have more hardware issues.
a c 235 U Graphics card
a c 165 ) Power supply
September 11, 2010 10:01:25 PM

jerreece said:
Have not seen reviews on those. Do they perform poorly?


they tend to have more issues, last year there where a good amount of people complaining about their 9800GT EE and 9600GT EE cards not running well.
a b U Graphics card
a b ) Power supply
September 11, 2010 10:03:19 PM

ct1615 said:
those EE cards are under clocked compared to the standard versions and often have more hardware issues.


Ah ok. That makes sense that they'd simply underclock the GPU to accomplish a lower power overhead. :(  That sucks. Cheaper than redesigning the GPU architecture itself I suppose. :na: 

So that being said, I guess I'd lean toward the ATI 4650. It will accomplish the goal, and is the safest bet with the current power supply. Not the BEST performance wise, but for a budget and PSU concerned person, it'll get the job done.
September 11, 2010 10:04:50 PM

Yes the ee cards are not great, but the 9600 gt still uses 95w of power and they are great cards. i think it is best to play it safe and go with the hd 4650.

He wouldn't know what aa/af is lol.

Belive me or not he has been playing crysis with his hd 3200 card on low settings and it jumps a bit but it can still play. quite funny to see really.

so yes i dont like his psu and not a great brand. the case they put the system in has so many led 80mm fans and led tubing that i am best to play it safe with the hd 4650, but it is still a lot better than his hd 3200.

Just want to thank you guys you have been great. your the reason i come on these forums ( just so damm helpful ) lol.

Thanks again both of you
a b U Graphics card
a b ) Power supply
September 11, 2010 10:12:54 PM

LOL NO problem.

I'm laughing about the LED fans & Neon tube lights. Hilarious the kind of crap that can be put into a low end desktop PC to make it seem so cool. Wonder what the power draw is on neon tubing. Never bothered playing with that shtuff.
September 11, 2010 10:19:24 PM

It sells tho, stupid enough. If it look good people buy it, thing is it is not my taste and to put a value psu in there and using the resources from the psu is not funny. people that dont know anything about computers, is either going to get ripped off or blow there system by adding a gpu.

Thats where you guys came in, at least i have sense to ask. lol

Thanks again both of you, made things so much easier for me and saved me money.
September 12, 2010 7:45:12 AM

probably you should change the psu and look for latest cards. like many before even i say 5770 or 5750, you could also go for a gtx 460 or the gtx 260 the 200 series have got cheaper and the 460 has a raesonable price for performance. for psu's you can go for silverstone or antec both make cheap and reliable ones, especially silverstone. a 750w should be just fine

i think you shouldnt go for gpus which are 3 generations old instead try and amke the system last longer by buying newer, decent gpus
September 13, 2010 11:34:47 AM

Ok,

I have spoke to the bloke and he said he is willing to upgrade his power supply himself.

I am looking to get the hd 3870 or 9600gt. what sort of power supply am i looking to get with this.

Like i said above he has got a phenom ii 9550 quad and will be having the hd 3870 in his system, at the moment his psu is a 450w but with only 17a with the 12v+ rail with a total of 204w.

What i ned to know what wattage and ampage on the 12v am i looking for.

Thanks
a c 235 U Graphics card
a c 165 ) Power supply
September 13, 2010 6:36:59 PM

a 450w+ from antec, seasonic, corsair with 30a+ (360w) on the 12v will do

September 14, 2010 12:16:10 PM

ok 30a+ on the 12v, thats great thanks

sorry to bother you again but i have found some that have dual rails.

how does that work then. for example the ones i have found have 18av1 and 18av2 so do you add both of these together to get the total ampage on the 12v so 432w in total or is it done differently.

Thanks again
!