First build, advice please!

[thirst]

Hi! This is my first ever desktop im building after coming from two Dell Laptops, Ive decided I want to save some money and still get something pretty powerful (My current Laptop is a Dell Vostro 1720 with a 9600GS and a 2.4ghz core2) Ill list my current build im thinking of but If theres anything cheaper/better Let me know, I lurked the forums here and a few other places and this is what Ive came up with... Im comfortable going over to an ATI card but ive never used any amd cpus before

Thanks!

Approximate Purchase Date: (Some time around Black Friday/Cyber Monday)

Budget Range: (500-850 TOPS)

System Usage from Most to Least Important: (Gaming, Programming, Web Surfing, Movies)

Parts Not Required: (Keyboard, Mouse, Monitor, Hard Drive, Optical Drive)

Preferred Website(s) for Parts: (newegg)

Country of Origin: (United States (Ohio))

Parts Preferences: by brand or type (Leaning towards Intel/Nvidia)

Overclocking: If I can get away with it

SLI or Crossfire: Maybe later

Monitor Resolution: (1680x1050, 1920x1200 - Ill be buying a new monitor later)

Additional Comments: (Id love for it to be quiet, and a case without a window and 9000 LED's )

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Include a list of any parts you have already selected with descriptively labeled links for parts.

Antec Three Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129042 - $60

EVGA P55 LE 123-LF-E653-KR LGA1156 Intel P55 ATX Intel Motherboard
EVGA 768-P3-1360-TR GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) 768MB 192-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.543912 - 325$ (60 MiR)

OCZ Reaper HPC Edition 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Low Voltage Desktop Memory Model OCZ3RPR1600C8LV4GK
OCZ ModXStream Pro OCZ500MXSP 500W ATX12V V2.2 / EPS12V SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Modular Active PFC ...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.545781 - $142 (35 MiR)

Intel Core i5-760 Lynnfield 2.8GHz LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor BX80605I5760
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115067 - $209

Total -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- $736 (After MiR - $641)

 

[MadAdmiral]

You're not getting an Intel/nVidia build for that budget. It's too expensive. Besides, it's not really recommended to begin with as nVidia cards are overly pricey and under performing (unless you absolutely NEED CUDA). As for Intel, the i5 is going to be replaced soon, so you have no upgrade path, making it a bad idea.

Some major problems with those parts. First, that PSU you picked is absolutely crappy. OCZ makes pretty terrible PSUs now days. There's a reason they're basically free.

Second, OCZ RAM sucks. Badly. The sticks require a lot of voltage to run, which Intel CPUs REALLY hate and AMD CPUS mildly hate. Avoid them at all costs.

EVGA's boards are overly expensive and not that great. If you're looking for a budget board, check out ASRock first, then MSI. Of course, Asus or Gigabyte would be the best, but it's a low budget.

Finally, the Antec 300 is decent, but the 300 Illusion is better for roughly the same price (you get two extra fans with it). Other good options are the Rosewill Challenger, Coolermaster Centurion 5 and Coolermaster 690.

Here's what I'd recommend (assuming you only need what's listed, so no HDD):

CPU: X4 955 $153
Mobo: ASRock 870 Extreme3 $100
RAM: G.Skill Eco 2x2 GB 1600 mhz CL 7 $90
GPU: HD 5850 $220 after rebate
PSU: Antec Earthwatts 650W $70
Case: Rosewill Destroyer $45 after promo

Total: $678. Heck, you could even drop in the HD 5870 or HD 6870 and still be under budget...

 

[dave0305]

You're not getting an Intel/nVidia build for that budget. It's too expensive. Besides, it's not really recommended to begin with as nVidia cards are overly pricey and under performing (unless you absolutely NEED CUDA). As for Intel, the i5 is going to be replaced soon, so you have no upgrade path, making it a bad idea.

Some major problems with those parts. First, that PSU you picked is absolutely crappy. OCZ makes pretty terrible PSUs now days. There's a reason they're basically free.

Second, OCZ RAM sucks. Badly. The sticks require a lot of voltage to run, which Intel CPUs REALLY hate and AMD CPUS mildly hate. Avoid them at all costs.

EVGA's boards are overly expensive and not that great. If you're looking for a budget board, check out ASRock first, then MSI. Of course, Asus or Gigabyte would be the best, but it's a low budget.

Finally, the Antec 300 is decent, but the 300 Illusion is better for roughly the same price (you get two extra fans with it). Other good options are the Rosewill Challenger, Coolermaster Centurion 5 and Coolermaster 690.

Here's what I'd recommend (assuming you only need what's listed, so no HDD):

CPU: X4 955 $153
Mobo: ASRock 870 Extreme3 $100
RAM: G.Skill Eco 2x2 GB 1600 mhz CL 7 $90
GPU: HD 5850 $220 after rebate
PSU: Antec Earthwatts 650W $70
Case: Rosewill Destroyer $45 after promo

Total: $678. Heck, you could even drop in the HD 5870 or HD 6870 and still be under budget...

+1, +1,+1,+1,+1,+1,+1,+1,+1,+1,+1,+1,+1,+1,+1,+1
yes i definitly agree, with that budget there is no point getting intel/nvidia based built.
Really nicely picked MOBO ( crossfire capable), CPU (best cpu for the money,+ multipliyer is unlocked) and RAM ( CL 7)
About the 6870, just drop it in straight away it scales really good, especialy in CF.

 

[thirst]

I can extend my budget to 800ish If that helps, Id really like to stay intel/nVidia, Ive never had anything to do with AMD cpus before. I really like your build though, Ill definately keep it in mind!

 

[dave0305]

Well for the 800ish you not going to get as good gaming rig with intel/nvidia then with AMD/ATI. Just because you haven't had anythink with AMD cpu dosen't meen they are bad.There is always time to try out new things.

 

[thirst]

I dont expect to have a monster machine after this is all done but I do want something that will last a good while.

I never said AMD is bad im just a little iffy about going to them, when will the AM3 socket get outdated? I picked the i5 knowing that 1156 was going out the window fairly soon, which is why i dont want to go all out on this PC. How well does nVidia cards play with the AMD mobos, like maybe sli?

Im determined to get an intel config but im still open to that AMD setup MadAdmiral posted

 

[zooted]

AMD and SLI don't work very well because they haven't made any recent boards with newer chipsets that are SLI capable. AMD and AMD(ati) is the way to go.

 

[MadAdmiral]

AMD has said they are not currently planning on replacing the AM3 socket. That means it will likely last through at least the next generation of CPUs. AMD also has a history of extremely good backwards compatibility. Their current set of CPUs work with at least their last socket. It's likely that any new CPUs released on a new socket will work in older ones, making them a great buy for upgrading.

$800 can buy you a pretty fearsome gaming machine. I know for a fact you can easily fit the X4 955, HD 5870, a USB 3/SATA III board and a large case/PSU to allow for Crossfire later.

zooted is right. AMD and nVidia cards don't play well together in SLI. AMD owns ATI, so their boards purposely don't natively support SLI configurations. There are a few nVidia chipset boards out there for AMD, but they are very low quality, expensive and don't have a lot of "necessary" features like USB 3/SATA III support. It's generally a bad idea to try to use SLI with an AMD CPU.

Basically, until you've reached a budget of around $1,000, you won't be getting a good gaming build with Intel. Their CPUs and boards are just too expensive. You can (and should) use that part of the budget on the GPU, since that affects gaming the most. Once you reach that higher threshold, there aren't many upgrades to the GPU that make sense, allowing more to be spent on the CPU.

 

[thirst]

The next time I upgrade Ill probably just use this for a media server and buy something new altogether, so I wont need any upgrade paths, I havent been able to find any convincing benchmarks in games or otherwise to sway me completely from the i5, but I wont not consider it. And I do kind of need CUDA. I can do around 800, but no more than 850, Ill look at some more parts tonight.

 

[MadAdmiral]

The upgrade path keeps you from having to replace the build for longer. For example, with the upgrade options, instead of having to relegate the build to a server in three to four years, if you add a second GPU or replace the CPU, you could keep it as your gaming build for another two years easy.

 

[thirst]

Right, but arent most cpus a bit overkill today? I wont be upgrading for quite some time. How are theses set ups? Noone is complaining about the ocz psu on newegg, but the ram does seem a little sketchy, I wont be buying this till around cyber monday to see if any good deals kick up, and If I go intel i can possibly pick up an i5 for the price of an x4

Heres what I have so far:
AMD
Intel

 

[dave0305]

About the AMD build:
That mobo isnt CF, get this one:
ASUS M4A79T Deluxe AMD 790FX AM3 Motherboard Was: $149.99Now: $114.99
[http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131363R&cm_re=ASUS_M4A79T_Deluxe_AMD_790FX_AM3_Motherboard-_-13-131-363R-_-Product]

GPU: The 6870 beats the gtx 470 and is cheaper, runs cooler and has lower power combustion.
HIS H687F1G2M Radeon HD 6870 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card with Eyefinity $239.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161349&cm_re=6870-_-14-161-349-_-Product

Power supply: I don't know much about Rosewill but i would get this corsair:
CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Compatible with Core i7 Power Supply Was: $139.99Now: $109.99
[http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139006]

Ram: Spot on, keep the ones you picked.

Case+DVD: OK, good branded.

CPU+Cooler: No need for the 470, and that cooler isn't much knowen, get this offer:
1. AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition Deneb 3.2GHz Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor HDZ955FBGMBOX
2. COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 Plus Intel Core i5 & Intel Core i7 compatible RR-B10-212P-G1 120mm "heatpipe direct contact" Long ...
Combo Price: $174.98
[http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.374228]

The intel build has got not good branded RAM+PSU
note: PSU is one of the most important parts for the build.

 

[deadcold94]

About the AMD build:
That mobo isnt CF, get this one:
ASUS M4A79T Deluxe AMD 790FX AM3 Motherboard Was: $149.99Now: $114.99
[http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131363R&cm_re=ASUS_M4A79T_Deluxe_AMD_790FX_AM3_Motherboard-_-13-131-363R-_-Product]

GPU: The 6870 beats the gtx 470 and is cheaper, runs cooler and has lower power combustion.
HIS H687F1G2M Radeon HD 6870 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card with Eyefinity $239.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161349&cm_re=6870-_-14-161-349-_-Product

Power supply: I don't know much about Rosewill but i would get this corsair:
CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Compatible with Core i7 Power Supply Was: $139.99Now: $109.99
[http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139006]

Ram: Spot on, keep the ones you picked.

Case+DVD: OK, good branded.

CPU+Cooler: No need for the 470, and that cooler isn't much knowen, get this offer:
1. AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition Deneb 3.2GHz Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor HDZ955FBGMBOX
2. COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 Plus Intel Core i5 & Intel Core i7 compatible RR-B10-212P-G1 120mm "heatpipe direct contact" Long ...
Combo Price: $174.98
[http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.374228]

The intel build has got not good branded RAM+PSU
note: PSU is one of the most important parts for the build.

+1 very nice build there dave0305

 

[dave0305]

+1 very nice build there dave0305

Thanks

 

[thirst]

Ok thanks, I looked up some benchmarks and the two cards seem neck and neck, with the 470 being more power hungry/ hot.

Ill change the psu in the amd build. How is this one for the intel build?
COOLER MASTER Silent Pro M600 RS-600-AMBA-D3 600W ATX12V V2.3 SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Modular Active ...

As for ram, what is the difference between these?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231180

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231275

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231276

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231274

Some of them have the exact same specs but are priced differently just because?? How important are the latencies on ram?

 

[dave0305]

Ok thanks, I looked up some benchmarks and the two cards seem neck and neck, with the 470 being more power hungry/ hot.

Ill change the psu in the amd build. How is this one for the intel build?
COOLER MASTER Silent Pro M600 RS-600-AMBA-D3 600W ATX12V V2.3 SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Modular Active ...

As for ram, what is the difference between these?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231180

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231275

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231276

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231274

Some of them have the exact same specs but are priced differently just because?? How important are the latencies on ram?

Yes the cards are running neck to neck but because the 6870 is cheaper and runs cooler it wins.

Yh that PSU is looking good...

The rams have all got same speed, the only difference is the CAS LATENCY the lower the better, get this ram it has higher speed and low CAS LATENCY:G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL7D-4GBRM $94.99
[http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231303]

 

[thirst]

Is there a huge difference between a latency of 9 and 8? or 8 and 7?

 

[MadAdmiral]

I don't trust Coolermaster PSUs. Stick to units from Corsair, SeaSonic, Silverstone, Antec and XFX to ensure you get a quality one.

None of those sticks are the same. The $65 ones have CL 9, the $70 ones have CL 8, the $75 ones are also CL 8 but have a slightly faster speed (PC3 10666 vs. 10600) and the $80 set has CL 7.

Latency is the most important spec for RAM. You should not get anything higher than CL 7 if you want to do any overclocking. The exception to this is if you high speed RAM (i.e. above 1600 mhz). The clock speed and latencies are inversely related, so as you increase the speed, you get looser timings (latencies). The sweet spot right now is 1600 mhz CL 7. Since there is rarely a price difference in 1333/CL 7 and 1600/CL 7, you want the faster ones. I'd recommend either of these:

Corsair XMS3 1600 mhz CL 7 $90 (free shipping)
G.Skill Eco 1600 mhz CL 7 $90 (shipping extra)

The Ecos are a touch better because they're low voltage sticks. That means they'll use a little less power and have a lot of headroom for overclocking.

 

[thirst]

Overclocking in general? Or overclocking ram? Thanks for the help so far guys Im learning a lot

 

[MadAdmiral]

Both the RAM and CPU. They are related.

 

[thirst]

So here it is so far, I dont think I can get anything better/cheaper can I? The 750 watt power supply should give me room for SLI later if I want it right? If I wait for cyber monday would I save any more? If it looks okay I might order it this week.

 

[Darkravern]

What about something like this...

COOLER MASTER RC-692-KKN2 CM690 II Advanced Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119216



Western Digital Caviar Black WD5001AALS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136320



ASUS M4A785TD-V EVO AM3 AMD 785G HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131398




Palit NE5TX470F10DA GeForce GTX 470 (Fermi) 1280MB 320-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814261073




APEVIA ATX-AQ700W-BK 700W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready Power Supply
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817148040


AMD Phenom II X4 925 Deneb 2.8GHz Socket AM3 95W Quad-Core Processor HDX925WFGIBOX
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103656


Pixxo MD-W1G5 Black 1 x Wheel 2.4GHz Wireless Laser Mouse
Pixxo KM-2781U Black USB Wired Standard Multimedia Slim Keyboard

Combo
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.540766

CORSAIR XMS3 DDR3 SDRAM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145251

Altogether. $786,... Wait. with 35 bucks of Mail in rebate :O.. Go buy yourself some good Skull candies... you get quad core 2.8... enough for gaming... Then a GTX 470 card. You can OC that to make it cook you dinner and bring you sandwiches while you frag noobs on Ultra quality 500 fps Gameplay.

be happy. AMD is the best you going to get out of 850...

Here it goes...

budgets like 600-1600 gets you super good AMD rigs that could out compete the same budget intel rigs..

1600+ budgets gets you i7 rigs that will out compete anything running for like 5-7 years.

Oh yeah. if you are going to OC... buy a after market heatsink and fan for your CPU

The 700W power supply should be able to take SLI anyday. plus it comes with like 6x 4 pin molex connectors to make your CP extra comfy and cold with fans connected to them. plus the damn thing is like 36 bucks with the rebate.

If you got fans connected to what i posted here, with after market cpu cooolers, you could get atleast 3.7GHz OC stability like childs play. and that should only cost an extra 30 bucks.

 

[MadAdmiral]

^The problem with going with a nVidia card with AMD is that you won't be able to SLI. It's not compatible.

As for the 470 "cooking you dinner", that's because it runs so hot. I'd rather have the roughly equivalent HD 6870 that'll run a hell of a lot cooler and use a hell of a lot less power. Or the better performing HD 5870.

That PSU is absolute crap. Don't touch it, as it will likely take the entire build when it fails (and it will fail, and likely soon).

The X4 925 isn't a good option. Either save the money and get a X3 445 or spend a touch more and get the X4 955. There's really no reason to get something in the middle.

Why the Caviar Black? It's more expensive than the similarly performing Samsung Spinoint F3 500 GB. Heck, for $15 (maybe less, depending on the day), you could get the 1 TB Spinpoint.

 

[thirst]

Thanks for all the help so far guys, Ive learned so much since my first post, I took all your suggestions with psus and such to heart and I have came up with this, I only have a question regarding the ram, Is it ok? And should I even bother getting a board that supports SLI? I wont be upgrading for sandy bridge anytime soon, and the 470 seems like it will hold its own for quite a while, would I be better off looking for a single card board and trying to fit a 480 in this build?

Is PNY any good? its 1600 CAS 8 ram, but its 1.65 volts..

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820178265

 

[MadAdmiral]

I don't know much about PNY, but that price scares me. Generally, you don't want to buy the absolutely cheapest part out there. Nothing in the specs indicate an issue (except the CAS latencies if you want a high overclock).

If you don't want to SLI later, there is no reason to buy a board with a second PCIe 2.0 slot. I'd check out the Asus P7P55D-E LX. It's even in a combo with the i5-760 that will save another $30.

Don't forget to check out other combos, especially with the 470 (or 480). Here's a great PSU with the 470: Corsair 750W Modular for $360 after rebate. There are a lot of combos out there for the 470 and 480 right now.