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Advice on any guide for building second new

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October 5, 2011 10:32:36 PM

Greetings all,

To cut to the point, I recently built a new PC. I went to an ATX platform simply because 1. I was told *i* damaged my first Mobo and also, I admit I made a bad decision on the first case, and the dealer have me credit.

The Current Built, (using the G1. Guerilla) i7 990x and I upgraded the 24GB of RAM which was Corsair DDR3 1333 PC3-10600 GHz to 24GB of Corsaire CMZ8GX3M2A1600C9B Vengeance PC3-12800, DDR3-1600MHz, 9-9-9-24 CAS Latency, Intel XMP Ready, Unbuffered. It's in the current build working great except that during the BIOS load it reads 1333 MHz. The reason for going back to the XL ATX is when it was running, it ran my Linux VMware better, fast indexing and Web Services. Again, to make a long story short, the store really messed up bad, which resulted in a full credit of $225 for my i7 960 in exchange for an i7 990x at a $0. My plan is this:

1. Gigabyte confirmed I did nothing to my G1.Assissan. and that THEIR CPU socket was defective. It's been fixed and should be sent out UPS ground tomorrow.
2. I already found what I believe to be an excellent XL ATX Case for $120, the Coolmaster XL ATX. (this time I opened it up at the store and tested how easily Opticals, Drives etc. can be installed as well as cable management and cooling options). It's not plastic, except some of the hooks, but not the case.
3. I am putting the i7 990x into the new build and using my current Corsair H70 Cooler I have set up in the current build.
4. The updated 24GB of Corsaire CMZ8GX3M2A1600C9B Vengeance Desktop Memory Kit - 8GB (2x 4GB), PC3-12800, DDR3-1600MHz, 9-9-9-24 CAS Latency, Intel XMP Ready, Unbuffered is a concern, since I have not changed any settings and the BIOS screen shows 1333MHz in the current G1.Guerilla ATX Board. (does this make sense? Should it not show up as 12,800?)

That said, the adice I need is as follows:

a. What Video Card? I only need one with dual monitor capality. For some odd reason, the 580 I have in there boots off the second monitor I have connected to DVI. It's an old 19" square. My Main monitor is a 32" LED Flat Panel with HDMI output 1.4. I suppose I could go back to Radeon I did have a 6790, but in my opinion as a beginner, the Catalyst software sucks. The NVIDIA is smooth and no issues. Maybe they are waiting to fix it with their rumored new GPU cards comingout Oct end or November. Any suggestions? Should I go back to ATi, if so, which model and should I simply allow windows to install the driver for now?

b. current build has a nice modular 650 Watt. They are running rather cheap, so I may go to 850 Modular Corsair. Who knows, perhaps someday when work is done I may want to put in a few more cards using x-Fire and actually play a game other than PacMan.

c. Lastly, my HD's are a pain in the ass. Both G1 Mobos have only 2 Sata 3 60GB/s. Granted this is all I need, I am running the Vertex 3 240 GB ISOP 60,000 for my C:\ Drive and (with two opticals which I plan to replace with one Blue Ray DVD/CD) my second drive also running Sata 3 is the WD 650 GB VelociRaptor. I have had my share of problems by doing two simple things. Redirecting the Outlook .PST folder to the Raptor (using the registry) and simply moving the Desktop. If I pull the Raptor, it seems to piss off something claiming all different error messages, about the F:\ drive.

Is it better to simply move the 10GB of Outlook .PST's to the F:\ drive and since this will be a new build, install Outlook with the Internet pulled (so it does not create a new one on the C:\ and start downloading duplicate messages, as opposed to doing the registry redirect and should I simply bite the bullet and
NOT relocate my desktop to the F:\ and simply set up a default folder to save everything to, which when opened will be of course the F:\ drive?
(or is there a solution to do the same folder thing and emulate a desktop?) I do realize what I have been doing ARE accepted methods, but they cause issues and I don't care what MS says.

Two final questions:

1. Can anyone direct me to a good "how to build a new PC link that would be similar to what I will be doing above?"

2. Once I take apart my old newly build PC a little over a month old, I will have a Corsair 600T (I admit I love this case), I purchaseds an i7 950 chip because it was on sale for $200 and I paid $154 for the case and will have 24 GB of the 1333 GHZ 10600 RAM which I found on sale for about $120. I will have a nice OCZ Modular Power Supply 650 wt I paid $70.99 for,. but received a $30 rebate, so $50. Total so far: $524.

Is it advisable to rebuild that PC which would require me to purchase a new OEM builders copy of Windows (back up to $149) for Home Premium Edition. I would need to pay 89.00 to upgrade to Win 7 Pro, since I would not sell anyone a machine with Home Premium. I would put both my current Multidrive Opticals in it (no idea what I paid, those are from a while back). So, $0 on those. Lastly:

I would have to decide on a drive and although I could add a VelociRaptor 600 GBs, I am a firm believer C:\ drives should be an SSD. But that's me. And since there are two Sata 3 Ports, I'm not sticking in a Sata 2 SSD to save on cost. Or, shall I simply put in a VelociRaptor and just do the build with one drive and allow the buyer to decide what to do? That total would cost me the $524 + $149 + $89 + say $200 for the Raptor = $962 + $60.13 Taxachusetts = $1,022.13 plus to buyt the 3 year warranty on everything but the opticals would be about another $250-$300. So, $1,322.13 with the 3 year warranty. I have seen people pay for PC's on eBay that are not even 1/2 what this would be. But, will they know and could I take a chance to sell a custom build on eBay? Thoughts?

Better to build and put it on eBay or sell the Case, CPU, RAM and Power Supply on eBay? Sorry for the long email, but give me 5 months and I'll be answeing questions for payback on some answers I have already been given here.

I only started this a few months ago. Thanks all.

Dean Poulos



More about : advice guide building

October 5, 2011 11:47:31 PM

to start with your ram... most memory wich is XMP at 1600 will not run stock at 1600. MB's require you to turn on XMP wich is generaly in the cell or over clocking menu, then it will run at 1600. second you want unbuffered, all normal desktop consumer line ram is unbuffered. power PC macs used buffered ram as to some servers.

so one of your DVI ports is dead on your 580? if thats the case then fine try to RMA the card. if the computer will only display one screen on post then just use the other port for your 32" and put a secondary on the other. you can easily use a DVI to HDMI adapter, the 580 is pinned to send audio through that.
If you want to buy a new card then either card works, if you plan to do 3d rendering work buy a nvidia (its more compatible). if you want to use 3d get nvidia, if you want to run dual video cards get nvidia. if none of this appilies then it does not matter what mfg you get. just buy on price and performance. i prefer 3dguru to base cards.

a 650W is fine for a single card, if you want to go dual then sure upgrade.

You should set the default directory for your outlook files to the F drive. dont save any of it to the C drive. i assume you do ALOT of email and have many 2GB pst files wich is why you want to move it off your small C drive. dont try to redirect just place it all there and set it as default.

you can move your librarys out to your raptor but in the end i would just put shortcuts on your desktop. if you are talking about large video files or internet downloads just make a download folder on your F drive.
Why are you removing your raptor? its a hell of a drive to use as an external.
there is no need to place a raptor on a sata3, they dont even use the bandwidth of a sata2. if you ever get to the point of needing more sata3 ports then go grab a PCI-E raid card.

why not sell a comp with home prem? 90% of basic comp users wont need anything over home prem. if you plan to use it for your self then you can buy the upgrade for pro and install that instead. it will not activate when you first install it but then if you reinstall over itself it will register as having a previous windows install and then it will activate. ive done this hundreds of times for people on budgets to save a bit of cash.

as for comp building, youtube is a great place. look up videos for the individual components. such as cpu install and MB install. some tips:
1.) make sure you have risers installed in the case. some cases have these formed as part of the back panel. the MB should be raised off the side of the case and be squar with teh back of the case.
2.) when appilying the thermal compound make sure you dont put to much on. place a small amount on the CPU when its installed and use a credit card to spread it around eavenly. it should be a paper thin coating covering the entire CPU with minimal drop off the sides.
3.) always have one hand on an unpainted part of the case to ground your self. do not build on carpet and wear rubber soled shoes.
4.) when these CPU's are installed make sure you do it on its side. if you do this while the MB is vertical they can slide down a bit and not make full contact with the socket. its common (i lost my trian of thought here as i was afk to replace a tie rod...)

dont buy a velociraptor.. they are junk. they dont hold up against ANY SSD cheap or not and they are only marginaly better than a standard 7200 high cache drive and the price is just to much.

what are you buying that your optical drives are 250??? a blueray burner is only 60 bucks. a reader is around 50

if you want to sell it then buy a standard HD with a dvd burner and call it a day. spend 60 bucks on that...

edit: why dont you want to use a sata 2 SSD? a higher end sata 2 is 4 times the speed some sata drives, there is no reason to hold out for a more expensive sata 3 unless you have money to burn and are going to use it for your self. anyone on ebay will be happy for a ssd sata 2.
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October 6, 2011 1:44:07 AM

“to start with your ram... most memory wich is XMP at 1600 will not run stock at 1600. MB's require you to turn on XMP wich is generaly in the cell or over clocking menu”
Agreed. My concern was the 1,600 was running at 1333 and not 12,800 and I have not made any adjustments or done any OC’ing yet. I debated putting that part in about the memory and video card, since I did not wish to obfuscate my objectives which really are:
1. The best way to handle a current build which works great, but does not suit my needs.
2. The fact I intend to go back to the original build (the XL ATX form factor, Mobo, i.e., the G1. Assassin)
“so one of your DVI ports is dead on your 580?”
No, I was not clear. The card had Two Dual Link DVIs and mini HDMI. I called NVIDIA and although I have an HDMI monitor the second monitor is DVI. By default ALL NVIDIA cards use the DVI monitor to show the BIOS start-up and black out the HDMI monitor. My large 32” remains dark for the time the BIOS screen is up and only appears with the Windows Start-up Logo. It’s not a big deal and in fact, I placed a doggle (HDMI to DVI) on my 32” HDMI plugged in to both DVI’s and doggled the second monitor DVI to HDMI, plugged it in to my HDMI and the BIOS booted on my main screen and the square monitor hooked in to the HDMI via a Doggle was dark. NVIDIA was correct. Once you put any second monitor in any of the DVI in’s (even doggled DVI to HDMI on both the card and DVI monitor, connected with an HDMI cable the BIOS is back on the second monitor). It’s a quirky thing. Why the BIOS would not simply boot up in Clone mode (on both) like every other card I’ve used over the years on both screens is a puzzle and never once happened on any ATi card I have used. I admit, it’s not a big deal, but my second monitor is a 19” square HP L1950g for a specific work related reason. It’s nice to be able to work in the BIOS on a large screen. Sorry I did not explain this.
I should have used my better judgment and not even brought up the memory issue and the Video card. My apologies.
“You should set the default directory for your outlook files to the F drive. dont save any of it to the C drive. i assume you do ALOT of email and have many 2GB pst files wich is why you want to move it off your small C drive. dont try to redirect just place it all there and set it as default.”
Not any that large, I cut them off at 1GB or less. Just MANY, MANY .PST’s. about 11GBs in total. By redirect, I assume you mean, do not change the registry, just move the files to my F:\ and with a clean install, I think (not sure) during the Outlook Install if I do not hit finish, (since the PST’s are not MAPI syncing with a server), I may be able to simply redirect the POP email to the other drive (no registry messing needed!)
“you can move your librarys out to your raptor but in the end i would just put shortcuts on your desktop. if you are talking about large video files or internet downloads just make a download folder on your F drive.”
I was afraid you would say that. All I have done is move the Desktop to F:\ to make it easy to drop files and have all my folders visible. I like everything about Windows 7 except in XP Partitioning your C:\ Drive and creating a D:\ or using two drives and moving the My Documents folder was a piece of cake. I’m certainly not going to move the entire (don’t even know what they call it, but it has my name on it when I named the PC and all the media, desktop, etc) which is what MSFT suggests. The problem: The invisible Apps folder. If I move that, what the hell is the benefit of my C:\ Drive SSD?
“Why are you removing your raptor? its a hell of a drive to use as an external/”
I am not. I use the WD Raptor as my file drive the F:\ drive. The 600 GB Raptor is Sata 3 6.0 GB/s. I only brought up the Raptor as a possible solution when I try to sell my first build.
“there is no need to place a raptor on a sata3, they dont even use the bandwidth of a sata2. if you ever get to the point of needing more sata3 ports then go grab a PCI-E raid card.”
This I don’t understand. Granted, I have only benched (once) My Vertex 3 SSD 240 GB and the result were something like 522/538. Although I never benched the Raptor, my external “file backup drives” are internal WD Caviar Black 1TB (with the 64 Cache). I use eSata (AHCI) enclosures. When I backed up my files from the Raptor to the Caviar Black it was moving at 250-300 MB/s. When I switched to another enclosure (same WD 1TB) USB 3.0 I barely held 150-180 MB/s. I assumed that was because I was using the eSata Marvel AHCI in an eSata enclosure called a Max 5G Thermolite that “supports Sata 3).
Again, I am new at this stuff and as you can see, have lots to learn.
“why not sell a comp with home prem? 90% of basic comp users won’t need anything over home prem. if you plan to use it for your self then you can buy the upgrade for pro and install that instead.”
My own prejudice, because of what I do. You are absolutely correct. I’m assuming everyone uses VMware. :-)
“as for comp building, youtube is a great place. look up videos for the individual components. such as cpu install and MB install.”
Thank you!
“ some tips:
1.) make sure you have risers installed in the case. some cases have these formed as part of the back panel. the MB should be raised off the side of the case and be squar with teh back of the case.”
Oh yes!!!!! And not plastic ones either!

“2.) when appilying the thermal compound make sure you dont put to much on. place a small amount on the CPU when its installed and use a credit card to spread it around eavenly. it should be a paper thin coating covering the entire CPU with minimal drop off the sides.
3.) always have one hand on an unpainted part of the case to ground your self. do not build on carpet and wear rubber soled shoes.
4.) when these CPU's are installed make sure you do it on its side. if you do this while the MB is vertical they can slide down a bit and not make full contact with the socket. its common (i lost my trian of thought here as i was afk to replace a tie rod...)”
Thanks again!
“dont buy a velociraptor.. they are junk. they dont hold up against ANY SSD cheap or not and they are only marginally better than a standard 7200 high cache drive and the price is just to much.”
That I have to look into more, only because of experience. I would absolutely agree on the Raptor Sata 2 3.0 GB/s, but I’m not too sure about the Sata 3. Easy way to find out if hook it up to one of my sata 2’S and copy the same files and see if I get the same 250-300 MB/s speeds.
“what are you buying that your optical drives are 250???”
A TYPO. :-)
“if you want to sell it then buy a standard HD with a dvd burner and call it a day. spend 60 bucks on that...”
That may be a good idea. I like the WD Cav Black 1TB.
“edit: why dont you want to use a sata 2 SSD? a higher end sata 2 is 4 times the speed some sata drives, there is no reason to hold out for a more expensive sata 3 unless you have money to burn and are going to use it for your self. anyone on ebay will be happy for a ssd sata 2.”
For one thing, I don’t know how many apps they want to dump on it. And, do I try to explain to someone on eBay how to use two drives? However, you have saved me $95 on the pro upgrade and $150 on the Raptor vs. the 1TB WD Cav Black!
You’re also correct, if I could guess what they would want to use for space, anyone on eBay would be blown away with a sata 2 SSD. My first one was a 120 Velocity sata 2 and when I saw 224/238 I was blown away. Problem is I do intensive indexing of a 30 GB file that only grows with updates and then use software which is part web services (keeps my bookmarks and stuff I build saved, while partially running part of the Application in the Cloud and also On-Premise) all the while I am trying to pull citations from the 30GB index file, which is really about 11,000 digital books.
Perhaps a second mortgage on my house and I can pick up one of these (then again, my wife has access to sharp objects).
http://netherlands.emc.com/collateral/demos/microsites/...
Turn down sound > select 3D TAB and then “Master” and “Segment.”

Thanks again for your help.
Dean
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October 6, 2011 5:11:24 AM

SSD's vs raptors have a main issue here. SSd's are the same access time across the drive, raptors have physical limitation. A raptor on a decent onboard sata 2 port will not max it. perhaps in a linier transfer it could reach 250... MAYBE but that is still 125MB below the sata 2 cap. a random read or a read from a fragmented drive will only be around 40MB or less, i doubt you would even get 50. I run 3 80GB X25 intel sata 2 SSD's they clear 1GB/s reads and are close to 700MB/s writes. randoms are 200-500MB/s sata 2 drives can push the data but it comes down to your controller card when you reach that much space. the iop on the SSD's can over load and bottle neck some cards.

Windows 7 calls then 'libraries' its your doc, desktop, music, ect. you can relocate them if you want. i believe there is a built in windows option to do this. im sure google has the answer on that one.

I have always prefered ATI when using HDMI, the CCC and audio options on the radeons is why i got a 5870 vs a 480 or what ever it was back when i built this comp.
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October 7, 2011 9:07:50 PM

NCC, the more I considered this, the more you it is making sense and I need to make a decision.

"I run 3 80GB X25 intel sata 2 SSD's they clear 1GB/s reads and are close to 700MB/s writes."

How did you accomplish these speeds? The configuration on face value to me, sounds like a simple RAID 0 3 80GB SSd's.

However, what are you controlling them with? I am limited on board by the Marvel for Sata 3 and I only have 2.

All the other stuff becomes window dressing when I see speeds like this, but I have been also told of the risks with configuring an SSD RAID.

May I ask if I am correct, how you handle backup of you C:\? Image? Acronis perhaps (weekly)???

Thanks.

- Dean
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October 8, 2011 1:48:27 AM

areca controller card with 2GB cache DDR2. pcie 8X

i don't backup my C drive. i make an image with ghost 11 when i finish installing my drivers/updates and that's it. I store all my data and info on my storage drive of 9 2TB WD greens in raid-5. the only data that is on my C drive is installed programs. I put my drive backup and a linux/bartpe/hirens 10/mem86 USB drive wich i use to restore my backup and repair any issues i have. i also keep original bios for my video cards and MB with flash utilities on it just in case. I use a thermaltake kandalf LCS case and it has a built in drawer in a 5.25" bay so i keep my 32GB jump drive in there.

I keep all over clocking utilities installed on my usb drive as well as a dos partition for my mem86 and spinrite. all in all i have dos, winxp, linux ubuntu, and the windows 7 64 install disk all on this drive along with my ghost image. I also keep Ambrosiasw.com - Escape Velocity Nova on this drive so i can play a game while i wait for the install to finish. I slip stream my MB drivers into both linux and bartpe so i have full system functionality while booted off the jump drive.

I got my SSD's for 100 bucks each through intel retail edge. I zero the drives with linux every 6 months to reset trim usage since trim does not function in raid and i format them in 16kb clusters with a 16kb strip. i have found this to be the fastest combo for the type of work i do on my drives.
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October 9, 2011 3:32:55 AM

ncc

"I don't backup my C drive. i make an image with ghost 11 when i finish installing my drivers/updates and that's it."

Agreed, this is why I asked "C:\? Image? Acronis perhaps (weekly)???"

You create an image exactly as I do, except you use Norton Ghost. I'm not certain if NG creates a bootable disk image, which is why I selected Acronis, but I could be wrong, or perhaps you do not create a clone as I do, just a restorable image. Either way, it seems the only difference is that I go beyond the updates and drivers and install Office and those updates as well and stop right there. I don't touch that image, and in an emergency, I can quickly restore and have access to Outlook and the rest of Office.

In any case, this and much of the other stuff I posted was for learning purposes, but window dressing.

I have only been at this since June so most of your paragraph 2 would be like me typing my questions in ancient Greek. While I understand it makes sense to keep OC unilities on a bootable USB (I do that for other utilities with Linux and being a beginner have found the Ubuntu distro easy for that purpose). You lost me with the rest, however, be that as it may, I have never lost data in 30 years, so I've been lucky.

Here is what I need to know if it's even possible:

1. I have a 240 Gb Vertex Sata 3 60K IOPS and I've told you my bench rounded is 550/550 MB/s. I'd love to get to 700/700 MB/s, but capacity is more urgent.

2. I would not need the Raptor as a File drive if I had a 400-500GB SSD C: My build is done and I have decided to take your advice, put the Raptor in a Thermolite enclosure and made it my main important file back-up drive, e.g, .PST's, indexes, and VMware settings.

I have a bunch of WD 1TB Black Cav Drives to store a client's data once I have completed a migration and preped the data to now be moved from CNC to Thin client.

Big question:

What do I do about increasing the capacity of my C: drive from a 240 GB SSD to a 480? Is there any way to make this work with only two Sata 3 ports and the Mavel controller? Or, must I get a PCI card? And how do I increase capacity in the way in which this is accomplished by adding a rack to a server? More speed? All the better.

Or, am I toast and do I need to purchase a larger SSD? Thanks.

- Dean


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October 9, 2011 4:13:26 AM

The only way to get higher read speeds would be RAID.

my second paragraph are tools and utilities for hardware diags and recovery tools. hundreds of tools. just to make sure all components are functioning properly.

If you are suggesting to make your raptor an external HD i would not do this. raptors are very hot and sensitive. they need good cooling and are more fragile than a standard HD.

you can take 2 240GB SSD's and raid-0 them. this will give you double the speed with 480GB of space. however... and this is a very large however, you will need alot of CPU power to handle that much data, all those iops and random read/writes. if you have a i7 then fine, i suppose the CPU can handle it but your onboard controller will get slammed. also unless you run sandy bridge with the SSD cache MB's then your SSD's have no cache. this is another performance drop. thirdly, SSD's have trim, trim is used to read and write data evenly across the HD. thus prevents single sections of the HD from getting over use while the rest stays empty. in RAID this is disabled... your performance will degrade with use. now i re image my C drive (3 80GB intel X25 2nd gen SSD's) every 6 months, i do it this often as i also do a full system rebuild to clean my water blocks and refill my 3/4 gallon Liquid cooling system.

if you use your comp alot then you should do this with a raid in SSD's, at least every year. also you should remove your temp internet file location off the SSD's, disable windows search and indexing and your swap file if you can (this depends on the amount of ram you have). the goal is to minimize the amount of frivolous read/write programs on the drives. I use a 100MB ram drive for my temp firefox files, this has the benefit of greatly increasing page load speeds.

I would recommend a PCI-e 4X card for your SSD's one with at least 256MB of cache. while this is not required you will remove the load from your CPU and get faster speeds due to the cards processing off load/cache.

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October 9, 2011 8:39:18 PM

Gotta read this in more detail, but a dugh moment. RAID 0 Stripe, vs. mirrow doubles capacity. Brain is going foggy.

I am running the i7 990 Extreme, cooled with the Corsair H-70. I read something I cannot recall about a driver coming out soon which will allow Trim in RAID.

Also, my Marvel Controller is Sandybridge. It's the X58 + Marvell 88SE9182. Only controls the two Sata 3 ports.

My Sata 2 Connectors are Controlled by the Intel ICH10R "South Bridge "

The specs read:

eSATA Controller (JMicron JMB362 Chip, eSATA Connectors)
Enables or disables the SATA controller integrated in the JMicron JMB362 chip. (Default: Enabled) eSATA Ctrl Mode (JMicron JMB362 Chip, eSATA Connectors)
Enables or disables RAID for the SATA controller integrated in the JMicron JMB362 chip or configures the SATA controller to AHCI mode.
IDE Disables RAID for the SATA controllers and configures the SATA controllers to IDE mode. (Default)
RAID Enables RAID for the SATA controllers.
AHCI Configures the SATA controllers to AHCI mode. Advanced Host Controller Interface (AHCI) is an interface specification that allows the storage driver to enable advanced Serial ATA features such as Native Command Queuing and hot plug.

GSATA3 6_7/IDE Controller (Marvell 88SE9182 Chip, GSATA3_6 and GSATA3_7 Connectors)

Enables or disables the SATA controller integrated in the Marvell 88SE9182 chip. (Default: Enabled) GSATA3 6_7/IDE Ctrl Mode (Marvell 88SE9182 Chip, GSATA3_6 and GSATA3_7 Connectors)

Enables or disables RAID for the SATA controller integrated in the Marvell 88SE9182 chip or configures the SATA controller to AHCI mode.

IDE Disables RAID for the SATA controller and configures the SATA controller to IDE mode. (Default)

RAID Enables RAID for the SATA controller.
AHCI Configures the SATA controller to AHCI mode. Advanced Host Controller Interface (AHCI) is an interface specification that allows the storage driver to enable advanced Serial ATA features such as Native Command Queuing and hot plug.


In the Sandy Bridge controller is an option in the BIOS config called Cache Mode: Write Back is default. Is that what you mean?

Thank you.
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a c 716 V Motherboard
October 9, 2011 9:07:50 PM

This is like reading a book!

The Cooler Master HAF-X XL-ATX has horrible hot-swap bays.
Don't use 2x4GB kits, and especially do NOT use XMP in the BIOS.

(a) Don't use HDMI unless you also want the sound going to that monitor. You can change the 1<->2 in the nVidia control panel.
(b) If the plan is to OC the CPU and GPU then you will need an 850W PSU.
(c) Put the OCZ Vertex 3 on the Marvell 9182 by itself. The others on the Intel SATA2 and RAID as needed. I noted - http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/296993-30-plug-fries-...

(1) How to Build, Part 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPIXAtNGGCw ; Part 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_56kyib-Ls ; Part 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxaVBsXEiok
(2) Generally, I keep, sell or repurpose an old build and rarely take 'parts' from one to rebuild.

From above, use AHCI on everything. Never RAID via software, RAID 5 needs to be on a Dedicated RAID Card so either use RAID 10 (non-parity RAID) or get a Card.

I'm sure I skipped over a few things -- typical for a L-O-N-G post.
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October 9, 2011 11:49:05 PM

onboard cards are not very good with raid 5, they tend to run slower than with a dedicated card. on that i agree with jaquith.

HDMI is fine if you do or dont want audio, you can simply change your default audio device. no reason to not use HDMI just because you dont want audio. plus you cant go over 60hz on DVI

the OCZ on the secondary raid controller with AHCI would work fine.

there is no reson to not use XMP, 9 out of 10 times XMP will properly function so long as the ram is designed for your chipset. i.e. using newer 1.5v ram for 1155 vs 1.65 older ram that was built for the 1156. XMP changes voltages, timings, frequencies, and VTT voltages. this is why you need to check things after turning on XMP.

you do need a large PSU if you want to OC. once you OC your power saving goes away and you jump from using 200w to 400 before you even start ot boost speed.

there is no reason to not use 2X4GB kits, these are better vs a 4X2GB kit as you can clock 2 sticks of ram higher than 4 sticks of ram and you have the option to upgrade ram later with out throwing out sticks. so long as you buy the same ram you can combine 2 2X4 kits with out issue to get 16GB of ram.

seriously look into buying a PCI-E controller card if you want to run raid-5
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October 10, 2011 6:15:24 AM

Everything went smooth except I should have seen jaquith's comment about what I would call those hot plugable drive trays in the case!

I thought I knew what to run to the PSU, but it's definately the cable. I forgot the spelling, "Moalar" cables? That's what I think powers that bay.

I would be interested in understanding why you said do NOT use those bays. They seem to work perfect except I need to get a different type of cable for power. The drives show up fine hooked up traditionally, but putting the 2-240GB SSD's in those bays using 0-RAID was 5 minutes away if I had power.

I do not use XMP, the RAM is 1.5 volts for my x58 1366.

The audio stuff has me a bit confused. Yes, the monitor has audio, as does the card, but I have no audio issues, I run an optical cable into a reciever 5.1 surround, with Creative on-board. Works very well.

As to RAID 5 or any other RAID, because I use Acronis and my objective was RAID'ing the 2-SSD's for my C:\ drive this allows me to put everything on the C:\ and keep a drive in one of the bays for quick daily .PST and File backup. Until I hear for certain about these drivers which are supposed to allow Trim in Win 7, I will continue to reformate quarterly.

The PSU's have dropped so I pulled the 600 OCZ and will move to the 950 and that damn cable better work with those trays.

jaquith, can you tell me about your reaction to the bays? Thanks guys!

Dean

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October 10, 2011 7:39:34 AM

well even with out XMP make sure your getting the most from your ram. if its XMP at 1600 then manually clock it up to 1600 vs sitting down at 1333

there is no issue with your audio, how you have it is fine. HDMI wont mess with anything and you did it right.

its worth noting that SPDIF wont transmit 7.1, for that you need HDMI
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a c 716 V Motherboard
October 10, 2011 3:27:58 PM

mxgasdvr said:
Until I hear for certain about these drivers which are supposed to allow Trim in Win 7, I will continue to reformate quarterly.
jaquith, can you tell me about your reaction to the bays? Thanks guys!

Dean

Scrub through video 2 minutes; since you are questioning what 'I' say:


RAID does not support TRIM - period. As far as a PST/OST on the SSD it's fine - I do and sure if your email is not backed-up aka POP then sure back it up. I don't baby my SSDs, and most of those 'tweaks' IMO are useless. I do reduce the Pagefile to 2GB and not 0 and though I could move it I don't, and I do use Sleep and allow Hibernation so I do have the 'hiberfil.sys' on the SSD.

OCZ also makes horrible PSU's - see the video further though. The 'Client' in that video posted here, I told him all these problems BEFORE he hired David, and what components to use and not to use: MOBO, SSD, Case, PSU, Water, etc -- for the most part he didn't listen and the video prior to this illustrates both the problems and the returns needed.

I build simulr to David Truby, but I do not run into David's whirlwind of problems - measure twice and cut once - do your research ;) 
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October 19, 2011 4:20:42 PM

@jaquith

"Scrub through video 2 minutes; since you are questioning what 'I' say:"

My friend, I would not question you or anyone else here. I am way too new at this. I did mean the question in that way and on fact, I learned the hard way, although at times bad things lead to good outcomes.

Your posts and NCC's had forced me to do a great deal of research and I changed everything out. Perhaps you'll both agree for a beginner this was the best choice.

The store finally took back the G1.Assassin and I purchased a G1.Guerilla. Although I have only tried an ASUS Mobo and had a Paragone (I think) before I built my forst PC this past June, I could be wrong, but there is something about the BIOS in the G1 Mobos. Turns out not much of a difference than the XL ATX and this in turn enabled me to trade in the Cooler Master for the Corsair Obsidian 800D.

I love that case, with an ATX, when I completely done, I am getting a different Video Card, I need to know how you did that snapshot. There is not one cablee exposed.

Also, your warning was correct. The stupid dock broke one of my Vertex 3 240's. Luckly they like me at the store, since I was able to swap BOTJH Vertex SSD's for something else.

I did not make the connection between something second nature being in the IT industry, namely Hardware RAID vs. BIOS enabled RAID. (or fake RAID as some call it, although I do not see an issue with it for a home system). A Server yes, but, but now a home system. What I ended up with I am only keeping for a day, since I am returning it for the 480GB version. Below is why, that is if it worked. If not, no biggie. 1.6 GB/s Read 1.3 GB/s Write. Now I am trying to work with Acronis who does claims you can image 0-RAID and restore it, but I explained to them it is not software RAID.

NCC I have a copy of Norton Ghost 14 I never used, Would I be better off using that to image Dynamic Disks?

Thanks Guys,

- Dean




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a c 716 V Motherboard
October 19, 2011 5:09:42 PM

I use the Corsair 800D, and my feelings are the same - one of the great cases.

I assume the "bench" is a OCZ RevoDrive. However, if you're thinking of one then the OCZ RevoDrive 3 X2 which supports TRIM - http://www.ocztechnology.com/ocz-revodrive-3-x2-pci-exp... and then on a supported MOBO (take note of the known issues) - http://www.ocztechnology.com/displaypage.php?name=revod...

I'm not going to argue about RAID, do it your way -- I do it my way with an LSI ;) 
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October 23, 2011 3:18:03 AM

I only use a software raid in linux as they have some amazing software for that. hardware raid is all around better but is harder to recover from if it fails. I use a areca controller card but LSI is also a good brand.

I have used ghost and achronis on SSD's in raid before with mixed results. i find if i ghost from one SSD raid to another it tends to work fine, however if i ghost from platters to SSD's it generally fails.

You can use what ever ghosting program you want, i just prefer ghosts interface and there easily browsable images.

my old intel SSD's with sata2 get about 1.1GB/s read and 750MB/s write. with your vertexes i would have thought you could break 2GB/s but i have not worked with them yet so im not sure what kind of performance is able to be squeezed out of them. I would recomend testing different cluster sizes on your SSD raid. default windows cluster size is 4096bytes. I found that a 16KB cluster size increases the data through put with a 16K strip by almost 300MB/s with the file sizes i work with.

I used HDD tune and a flash drive with a win 7 install to test and bench my drives while i used the command line diskpart to change cluster sizes in windows setup. this is not required but if you want to pull all you can out of your HD it might not be bad to take a day and play with this.

also make sure your partition is properly aligned, most of the time this will be the case but ive had windows format misalign my parts from time to time.
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October 30, 2011 12:45:20 AM

"I have used ghost and achronis on SSD's in raid before with mixed results. i find if i ghost from one SSD raid to another it tends to work fine, however if i ghost from platters to SSD's it generally fails."

You're kidding right? I'm of course being sarcastic. Trouble and I are very close this past week. (Mr. Mixed results as well).

Acronis took up 2.5 hours of my time Tuesday, since they insisted RAID is not a problem, in fact, the second person (called Top support) who actually did know the difference between HW and SW RAID yet told me:

"You do NOT even need Acronis Plus Pack" which is really (WinPE). OK, makes me question his knowledge claim. Anyway:

After I explained to him PE does not work, I tried that second, he tells me they are going to submit a trouble ticket to create a "customized Linux recovery disk."

I stopped him and said, no you're not, I explained the darn thing does not even work in windows. I tried that last and it did an "EAT AWAY" of all my apps and the Native Windows Apps. What do they call that, when you see everything in your Programs Folder and your start menu consists of only the note pad and command prompt? You then launch Word and it says, "please wait while MS Office is installing."

They still can't figure it out, so they took about 9 snapshots of my system 5 or so of the BIOS and what Acronis looks like in restore mode using Linux and Windows and claims I'll have an answer.

You may be right. I very well may need to stick a few drives in the bays and create and array, to backup my C:\ drive RAID.

I'll let you know if they figure out what they advertize as the "Premium Solution for backup and Restoring to Disparate Drives. works"

Someone needs to learn how to clone an array.

It should not be as difficult as creating a "square circle." :-)
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