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Strictly 4 gaming

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February 8, 2011 1:15:27 AM

Hi all, :) 
I am planning to upgrade my cpu, my current specs are as following:-

CPU-Athlon ii x4 635(2.9ghz) :D 
Mobo-Gigabyte s-series M68M-SP2(AM3 ready-updated bios)
2gb-kingston 800mhz ram-single stick
500gb(seagate)+320gb(western) :??: 
Psu-ATEK600Watts :pt1cable: 
GPU-Sapphire ATI Radeon hd5770 DDR5 1GB :sol: 
Monitor-Samsung sync master 17inches(Maximum resolution 1280x1024) :sweat: 

I either want to buy Phenom ii x4 965be or Phenom ii x6 1090t(be)
(Pls dont advise intel -strictly not interested)

My Question is how much these two cpu's are better than my current processor

Percentage wise, i mean by what margin?

For-example if i am getting 35fps with my current settings in highest settings(GTA-4) then how much would i be getting with each one of these(With DRR-3 Memory)


Please help me.... :heink:  i am very much unsure which one to pick..

I hope i will see heavy difference if i compare it with my current cpu(athlon2) :ange:  :ange: 



Thanks in advance to all of you. :hello: 

More about : strictly gaming

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February 8, 2011 2:32:11 AM

Here is the benchmark between the Phenom II x4 965 BE and the Phenom II X6 1090t with GTA 4.Virtually identical showing no difference in performance.
http://www.behardware.com/articles/789-10/amd-phenom-ii...

It's looks as if it is optimized for just 4 cores and any more cores show little to no improvement.
You can read the rest of that review and compare benchmarks.
There are very few games that use more than 4 CPU cores as of now just a hand full I think.I know Microsoft Flight Simulator is one of them (can use up to 32 CPU cores).About 2 or 3 dozen games optimized for quad core CPU's so far.

Other wise you can try here for various benchmarks.
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/CPU/2
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February 8, 2011 3:56:08 AM

So..you're saying its not worth buying at this time?? ,,,,so its better to buy either 965/975??
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February 8, 2011 4:00:19 AM

jj463rd said:
Here is the benchmark between the Phenom II x4 965 BE and the Phenom II X6 1090t with GTA 4.Virtually identical showing no difference in performance.
http://www.behardware.com/articles/789-10/amd-phenom-ii...

It's looks as if it is optimized for just 4 cores and any more cores show little to no improvement.
You can read the rest of that review and compare benchmarks.
There are very few games that use more than 4 CPU cores as of now just a hand full I think.I know Microsoft Flight Simulator is one of them (can use up to 32 CPU cores).About 2 or 3 dozen games optimized for quad core CPU's so far.

Other wise you can try here for various benchmarks.
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/CPU/2



according to this benchmark, it shows its slightly better than 1090t....is this benchmark accurate??

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/102?vs=146


and how much faster is this cpu than mine?
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February 8, 2011 4:08:12 AM

Dude, if your CPU is adequate, upgrading it won't improve your in-game performance. Overclock it to make sure it can handle games if you're worried. But if you have $230 to spend on a CPU, instead spend $230 and get a Radeon HD 5870--That will have a HUGE boost to your gaming experience.
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February 8, 2011 4:08:17 AM

Your motherboard supports up to 95W CPU's. Which isn't saying much if you want to upgrade to Phenom II. You mine as well just wait for Bulldozer and see if its worth ditching your CPU/Mobo for a new platform.

Or go Intel.
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February 8, 2011 4:18:42 AM

well i said....i'd be switching to ddr-3 memory...so i'd be changing my mobo as well.. as it doesnt support ddr-3....it's an am2+ mobo.
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February 8, 2011 4:44:10 AM

Well if you really want to upgrade go with a 965. The six core would really only be useful if you are into some hardcore stuff or benching. Depending on what games you play, the 965 won't even be close to justify new CPU/Mobo/RAM.

A quad core is still a quad core. Plenty of people are still using older quads and are able to keep up with mostly everything. Even benching they do alright. Sure they are lower but they are still on the boards.

If you do more than gaming and use your PC enough. Go for it. Otherwise its really not worth the investment at all.
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February 8, 2011 4:48:45 AM

I do agree with BohleyK's advise if you're are going to change the motherboard,RAM and CPU.I didn't see at first your motherboards maximum CPU TDP rating.Indeed it is rated at 95 watts max.There is a definite noticeable improvement in performance with a more powerful and faster Phenom II however with such a large change in system components you are much better off with waiting for a few months for AMD's Bulldozer Zambezi to be released as it should have a much larger significant performance improvement than with AMD's current CPU lineup.It's perhaps best to keep your current system as a nice secondary gaming PC and just have a completely new custom build around the Bulldozer Zambezi platform since you don't want a Intel system.
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February 8, 2011 4:52:50 AM

You said, "Strictly 4 Gaming". That means--you should get a new GPU and mabye overclock your CPU (A whole thread in these forums on its own). Overclocking the CPU is only necessary if you are scoring lower than benchmarks posted online and in reviews.

The best use of your money, by far, is a Radeon HD 5870 right now. And if you get a second one next Black Friday along with a new motherboard or build (maybe i5-2500K), your new machine will be awesome.
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February 8, 2011 10:20:14 AM

jj463rd said:
I do agree with BohleyK's advise if you're are going to change the motherboard,RAM and CPU.I didn't see at first your motherboards maximum CPU TDP rating.Indeed it is rated at 95 watts max.There is a definite noticeable improvement in performance with a more powerful and faster Phenom II however with such a large change in system components you are much better off with waiting for a few months for AMD's Bulldozer Zambezi to be released as it should have a much larger significant performance improvement than with AMD's current CPU lineup.It's perhaps best to keep your current system as a nice secondary gaming PC and just have a completely new custom build around the Bulldozer Zambezi platform since you don't want a Intel system.

Hmmm.... i see...fair enough..

but still my only question is......is it x3 times better than my current cpu??
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February 8, 2011 10:23:08 AM

dalauder said:
You said, "Strictly 4 Gaming". That means--you should get a new GPU and mabye overclock your CPU (A whole thread in these forums on its own). Overclocking the CPU is only necessary if you are scoring lower than benchmarks posted online and in reviews.

The best use of your money, by far, is a Radeon HD 5870 right now. And if you get a second one next Black Friday along with a new motherboard or build (maybe i5-2500K), your new machine will be awesome.



Unfortunately....i dont know how to overclock and i find it little risky.......lol :p 

factory clock settings have always satisfied me to some extent. :-/
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February 8, 2011 10:36:21 AM

Thit is an old motherboard, is it AM2+? Why not upgrade that to one that has SLI/Crossfire and down the road add another GPU. A "better" CPU will add about 3 Fp/s
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February 8, 2011 10:42:10 AM

CsG_kieran_2 said:
Thit is an old motherboard, is it AM2+? Why not upgrade that to one that has SLI/Crossfire and down the road add another GPU. A "better" CPU will add about 3 Fp/s

I dont crossfire....dedicated single gpu user. :-/

Why i am not upgrading my card....cuz i am waiting for ATI's 23nm cards.

And i have maximum resolution of 1280x1024 and my card runs everything smooth without AAA/Anistrophic(or maybe at aaax4/some anistrophic)

i easily get 60+ fps in most of the games...

except GTA4(very unstable framerates--sometimes 60+..sometimes 45fps....avg 30+34+) and crysis(high settings---35-45--unstable).

otherwise other modern games they run pretty smooth.....so i am not going to change my gpu unless...either i dont get a bigger monitor or until ATI's 23nm cards dont come in the market.
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February 8, 2011 11:17:00 AM

asiarules said:
Hmmm.... i see...fair enough..

but still my only question is......is it x3 times better than my current cpu??


No one here knows (still a mystery as no one has as of yet seen any benchmarks).


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February 8, 2011 9:36:07 PM

NO CPU--even Bulldozer on AM3+ will give you a x3 times improvement. Your 5770 bottlenecks you on games more than an Athlon x4 635. Yes, you'd get mabye +3 fps with a 955 (or 965), but you won't get 50 fps when your CPU just isn't bad.

What you should do is:
1) Tell us what you've got (what you already did)
2) Tell us what you want to do that your computer can't already do.
3) Tell us how much you're willing to spend.

And to be honest, your monitor is the worst part of your build.
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February 8, 2011 10:33:58 PM

Even if you upgrade your CPU you won't get much of an increase, if you get anything at all, because that 5570 is going to be the limiting factor. If you're waiting for the next generation of ATI cards you're going to be waiting till October if not later. So this is what you can do now

1) get a second stick of RAM. GTA4 is a memory hog so the extra RAM will help. Also running the two sticks in dual channel will give you a measurable boost in performance.

2) overclock your CPU. That CPU is a decent overclock and a CPU cooler to overclock is alot cheaper than a new CPU :D .

3) get a 6850. It's about what you would have spent on a PII X4 965 and it will increase your performance by alot more than upgrading your CPU. It should be enough for a while at that resolution and will allow you game now rather than waiting till next year
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February 8, 2011 11:29:05 PM

megamanx00 said:
3) get a 6850. It's about what you would have spent on a PII X4 965 and it will increase your performance by alot more than upgrading your CPU. It should be enough for a while at that resolution and will allow you game now rather than waiting till next year
He already has a 5770 and a 6850 is barely an upgrade (Roughly 40%?). It's only worth buying a 6850 if he sells his 5770--otherwise he should plan on crossfiring a second 5770 down the line so that he isn't just chucking a perfectly good 5770 out the window. And with the prices you see nowadays, I'd say go with a 5870 if you must use a single card configuration.

I'd say buy a versatile CPU cooler (fits many sockets) and overclock your existing CPU and graphics. Wait a couple months before making a purchase because new generations of CPUs and GPUs are just coming out.

Do get that second stick of RAM though.
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February 8, 2011 11:51:30 PM

Love your Ski Free Avatar dalauder.That brings back fun memories (Windows Entertainment Pack) with Windows 3.1.
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February 9, 2011 1:38:48 AM

dalauder said:
NO CPU--even Bulldozer on AM3+ will give you a x3 times improvement. Your 5770 bottlenecks you on games more than an Athlon x4 635. Yes, you'd get mabye +3 fps with a 955 (or 965), but you won't get 50 fps when your CPU just isn't bad.

What you should do is:
1) Tell us what you've got (what you already did)
2) Tell us what you want to do that your computer can't already do.
3) Tell us how much you're willing to spend.

And to be honest, your monitor is the worst part of your build.



1)I am not about this question.....pls elaborate.
2)Full anti-aliasing and want smooth gaming even with GTA4 and Crysis(Ethusiast settings)
3)Budget is not a problem...but appreciate if you could help me save money(y to waste)
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February 9, 2011 1:40:54 AM

megamanx00 said:
Even if you upgrade your CPU you won't get much of an increase, if you get anything at all, because that 5570 is going to be the limiting factor. If you're waiting for the next generation of ATI cards you're going to be waiting till October if not later. So this is what you can do now

1) get a second stick of RAM. GTA4 is a memory hog so the extra RAM will help. Also running the two sticks in dual channel will give you a measurable boost in performance.

2) overclock your CPU. That CPU is a decent overclock and a CPU cooler to overclock is alot cheaper than a new CPU :D .

3) get a 6850. It's about what you would have spent on a PII X4 965 and it will increase your performance by alot more than upgrading your CPU. It should be enough for a while at that resolution and will allow you game now rather than waiting till next year



1)How about switching to ddr-3 channel???
2)Never did overclocking in my whole life.
3)I've heard its equivalent in performance with my card...somewhat better.
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February 9, 2011 1:43:16 AM

dalauder said:
He already has a 5770 and a 6850 is barely an upgrade (Roughly 40%?). It's only worth buying a 6850 if he sells his 5770--otherwise he should plan on crossfiring a second 5770 down the line so that he isn't just chucking a perfectly good 5770 out the window. And with the prices you see nowadays, I'd say go with a 5870 if you must use a single card configuration.

I'd say buy a versatile CPU cooler (fits many sockets) and overclock your existing CPU and graphics. Wait a couple months before making a purchase because new generations of CPUs and GPUs are just coming out.

Do get that second stick of RAM though.



Hmm.....wise advice...but need more.....

wanted to switch to ddr-3 channel.
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February 9, 2011 1:55:36 AM

So you all are saying..my cpu aint bad for gaming?? is that so???

so gpu and memory is the problem?? :o 
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February 9, 2011 1:57:36 AM

jj463rd said:
Love your Ski Free Avatar dalauder.That brings back fun memories (Windows Entertainment Pack) with Windows 3.1.

Thanks. And his computer can already play Ski Free like a beast. I don't see why he's all worried about improving it.
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February 9, 2011 2:34:46 AM

Oh--if money's not a problem, so long as you don't waste it. Then that changes the ball game dramatically. However, today is still a bad time to build a computer and you'll waste money and have a worse computer than if you waited a couple weeks for Sandy Bridge parts to come back.

The simplest upgrade is one 2GB stick of DDR2 ($29) (same speed as your other stick) and a Radeon HD 6950 2GB ($260). Whenever you feel like it, you could unlock the 6950. $289 Total.

The cheapest upgrade is 4GB (2x2GB) DDR3 1600MHz ($45), a new motherboard ($70), and a 5770 ($99). $214 Total.

Can your case fit an ATX board or only mATX (like your current board)? The nice thing about the first solution is that you're only putting $29 into your existing old build. Then you can migrate the 6950 2GB to a Bulldozer or Sandy Bridge Build later this year and even add a second 6950 2GB in a year to have something thoroughly amazing. Also, the first solution might be the cheaper of the two if you can sell that 5770 for $65 or so.
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February 9, 2011 3:20:03 AM

dalauder said:
Thanks. And his computer can already play Ski Free like a beast. I don't see why he's all worried about improving it.



Competition to show.....among friends who has got the best configuration.
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February 9, 2011 3:23:42 AM

dalauder said:
Oh--if money's not a problem, so long as you don't waste it. Then that changes the ball game dramatically. However, today is still a bad time to build a computer and you'll waste money and have a worse computer than if you waited a couple weeks for Sandy Bridge parts to come back.

The simplest upgrade is one 2GB stick of DDR2 ($29) (same speed as your other stick) and a Radeon HD 6950 2GB ($260). Whenever you feel like it, you could unlock the 6950. $289 Total.

The cheapest upgrade is 4GB (2x2GB) DDR3 1600MHz ($45), a new motherboard ($70), and a 5770 ($99). $214 Total.

Can your case fit an ATX board or only mATX (like your current board)? The nice thing about the first solution is that you're only putting $29 into your existing old build. Then you can migrate the 6950 2GB to a Bulldozer or Sandy Bridge Build later this year and even add a second 6950 2GB in a year to have something thoroughly amazing. Also, the first solution might be the cheaper of the two if you can sell that 5770 for $65 or so.



Sounds like a great advice....but not interested in intel products.....i had better experience with AMD and still happy.
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February 9, 2011 3:51:54 AM

asiarules said:
Competition to show.....among friends who has got the best configuration.

Don't fall into this trap. It will never end and you just end up spending money with not much improvement in performance.
The best upgrade path for you is the monitor because this is the most visible part of your PC and to which you are looking all the time.
The HD5770 should be able to play most game at gamer's setting and as long as the fps is >30 you will experience good gameplay.

If you still haven't got it, invest in surround sound if you want to spend $ money. It will improve your gaming experience more than just a few fps increase.


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February 9, 2011 4:04:59 AM

randomkid said:
Don't fall into this trap. It will never end and you just end up spending money with not much improvement in performance.
The best upgrade path for you is the monitor because this is the most visible part of your PC and to which you are looking all the time.
The HD5770 should be able to play most game at gamer's setting and as long as the fps is >30 you will experience good gameplay.

If you still haven't got it, invest in surround sound if you want to spend $ money. It will improve your gaming experience more than just a few fps increase.



Cool..i never thought of that....but dont you think it will lower down the frames rate...

but a great idea...so should i go for 19inches monitor??...right now i have 17inches...sync master 753s.....crt
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February 9, 2011 4:24:14 AM

asiarules said:
Sounds like a great advice....but not interested in intel products.....i had better experience with AMD and still happy.
Sandy Bridge is the only Intel thing I've mentioned. If you like AMD, get 2GB DDR2 (same speed as your other stick) and a Radeon HD 6950.
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February 9, 2011 4:27:55 AM

dalauder said:
Sandy Bridge is the only Intel thing I've mentioned. If you like AMD, get 2GB DDR2 (same speed as your other stick) and a Radeon HD 6950.



what abt switching to ddr-3 memory its an AM3 CPU....i can change my mobo for ddr-3 support and ram as well
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February 9, 2011 4:29:24 AM

asiarules said:
Competition to show.....among friends who has got the best configuration.
I was kidding--Ski Free runs fine on 1991 computers.
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February 9, 2011 4:29:44 AM

OK, didn't read all the posts (simply too many), but here's my two cents worth:

New CPU won't increase performance if you keep running with the 2GB DDR2 RAM. GPU is fine for the CPU, you don't want to bottleneck your system to either way. Gaming rig means GPU > CPU, not the other way around.

Here's what I recommend:

1. Wait for the AMD Bulldozer series (to be released probably before the end of this year). DO NOT buy a new motherboard now, as you don't know what chipset Bulldozer will come in.
2. Some extra RAM would suffice, getting another 2GB would boost load times as well.
3. If your PC is (as you mentioned) strictly for gaming, getting an SSD is a MUST. 60GB is more than enough for your Windows and two or three of your favourite games.
4. A new/bigger screen will not boost gaming performance, but it sure as hell would be a good investment. 19" is old news. 23" is the new thing. Also, 23" LED monitors are dirt cheap nowadays. If you don't like spending around $200 for a monitor, consider the Acer 20" LED monitor at $115. Resolution of 1600 x 900 is quite OK for a 20" monitor.

Now, remember that RAM capacity is more important than RAM speed (4GB of DDR2-800 is better than 2GB DDR3-1333). Most brand new CPU's are able to make most out of 1333MHz RAM anyhow, so 800MHz really isn't bad (I still use 4GB DDR2-800 and I can play ANYTHING).

Then, epic surround sound is epic. And you don't have to spend major bucks. A cheap system like the Logitech Z605 is more than enough, and will cost you around $90~$100. It's 5.1, with great thumping bass and the new design really looks cool. Only downside is that you can't turn the subwoofer completely off (it can be turned down, but never OFF), so late at night the whole house will hear your bass.

Buy smart. Trust me, you don't want to end up with brand new old equipment. That's the best way to start hating your gaming rig.
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February 9, 2011 4:34:09 AM

I'm not into surround sound, but a 22" monitor is a must. Anything smaller seems really small. If I needed a monitor, I'd get the $249 28" 1920x1200 one that's always on Newegg.

You need to be careful about spending money on things that don't improve performance. The switch to DDR3 won't have a monumental impact--but it was listed as "Option 2" of my suggestions above. Basically, you should sell your 5770 and buy a 6950, 2GB DDR2, a new monitor, and overclock if you want a good computer. Then get a new motherboard, CPU, & DDR3 later this year when Bulldozer Zambezi comes out.

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February 9, 2011 4:49:59 AM

The only reason I wouldn't buy an SSD is because the ones this year are so much better than a year ago at a much better price. I'd like to wait another 9 months and see what they've got for Black Friday. Hopefully by then, they'll quit updating them every couple months.
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February 9, 2011 6:05:46 AM

I'd buy an SSD ASAP. OCZ Vertex 2 60GB is probably the best value for money you can get from an SSD. With speeds exceeding any SSD in it's priceclass, and its quite funky 60GB storage space, it's great for you OS and a few of your most resource-intensive games. It's the one I'd get, maybe even two and place them in RAID... :D 
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February 9, 2011 7:44:02 AM

asiarules said:
Cool..i never thought of that....but dont you think it will lower down the frames rate...

but a great idea...so should i go for 19inches monitor??...right now i have 17inches...sync master 753s.....crt


Some folks already said that 19" is old and I agree 100%. So go at least 22" with 1920x1080. The price difference is not much compared to the increased in screen size & resolution gain.

Of course switching to higher resolution will lower the frame rates but as long as you got >30fps you will hardly notice the reduction. The best thing about going higher resolution i.e. from 1280x1024 to 1920x1080 is you have >50% more visual real estate. It mean you see more of the landscape. Not see things bigger, mind you, but more! If you are playing FPS ( first person shooter not to be confused with frames per second ) games, you will see the enemy on the side earlier in 1920x1080 than if you are on 1280x1024.

If you decided to upgrade the monitor to 22", select a model with thin bezel just in case you decided you like eyefinity which will allow you to see even more... This is another area for discussion, though. :) 

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February 9, 2011 9:26:26 PM

Get a 22" monitor. It'll make things a lot more enjoyable--although you may need to adjust in-game settings because a 5770 can't play everything on high at 1920x1080.
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February 9, 2011 9:28:23 PM

Why not get a 32" HD TV? Usually around the same price and you only lose DVI over HDMI
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February 9, 2011 10:06:34 PM

Quote:
Like some of the posters have stated, wait for AM3+ instead of buying AM3 for the former will support AMD's upcoming bulldozers, as well as all Phenom II based CPUs, including the Athlon IIs


And since u're getting those kind of frame rates with a HD5770, i'll assume ur using a small monitor, 1440*900 or below ?


There's really no need for an upgrade apart from RAM

Yeah i have 17inches crt..samsung sync master

1280x1024
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February 9, 2011 10:13:23 PM

CsG_kieran_2 said:
Why not get a 32" HD TV? Usually around the same price and you only lose DVI over HDMI

i dont want to change my gpu.
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February 9, 2011 10:41:18 PM

If you don't want to change your GPU and you don't want to overclock anything, then why are you asking us how to get better frame rates? That's the controlling factor. It's not your DDR2, it's not your CPU (so long as both are adequate), it's your GPU.

Also a 32" HDTV is like $300+. A 22" monitor is $120. I dunno what your math shows, but mine shows that 300 ≠ 120. As it turns out, 300 >> 120.
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February 10, 2011 12:10:25 AM

dalauder said:
If you don't want to change your GPU and you don't want to overclock anything, then why are you asking us how to get better frame rates? That's the controlling factor. It's not your DDR2, it's not your CPU (so long as both are adequate), it's your GPU.

Also a 32" HDTV is like $300+. A 22" monitor is $120. I dunno what your math shows, but mine shows that 300 ≠ 120. As it turns out, 300 >> 120.



Okay i will buy some extra ram sticks for the time being and would buy monitor of 20 inches..
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February 10, 2011 4:14:51 AM

I think maybe you all are correct...yesterday i bought dead space2 and played it and on highest settings and i was getting 90-165fps....i think i dont need to change my cpu until "bulldozer zambezi" doesnt come out...and later i can go for any ATI Top rated card for upgrade :) ...thanks all.
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February 10, 2011 4:16:07 AM

Best answer selected by asiarules.
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February 10, 2011 3:17:34 PM

Dude, if I were you, I'd save my money for any plans of upgrading from your current rig.

My advice, "WAIT" for "IVY BRIDGE" Trust me, spend your money on it, your IVY BRIDGE rig will last for at least 5-8 years.
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February 10, 2011 4:53:38 PM

dalauder said:
If you don't want to change your GPU and you don't want to overclock anything, then why are you asking us how to get better frame rates? That's the controlling factor. It's not your DDR2, it's not your CPU (so long as both are adequate), it's your GPU.

Also a 32" HDTV is like $300+. A 22" monitor is $120. I dunno what your math shows, but mine shows that 300 ≠ 120. As it turns out, 300 >> 120.


Awch, sorry to hear you live in the US :lol:  South Korean TV makers (e.g LG) sell their TV's dirt cheap here
EDIT* am in the uk
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February 11, 2011 12:33:04 AM

lol......not everyone in this room is from US otherwise i would have got 2 5970's

i've done comparison Gpu and cpu's are comparatively cheaper in US.
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February 11, 2011 12:34:32 AM

binoyski said:
Dude, if I were you, I'd save my money for any plans of upgrading from your current rig.

My advice, "WAIT" for "IVY BRIDGE" Trust me, spend your money on it, your IVY BRIDGE rig will last for at least 5-8 years.



now whats that??
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February 11, 2011 1:28:42 PM

Ivy Bridge will be the 22nm die shrink of Sandy Bridge (second generation i7's that's at 32nm). It will be phenomenal--but the real question is how epic will its battle with Bulldozer be? Will the combined awesomeness of both processors [architectures] cause the world to implode? I think likely.
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