Real News on the Japanese Reactors would be nice

http://www.smh.com.au/national/gil [...] 1bt24.html

Despite getting into a bit of hot water at home over his comments, it appears Foreign Minsister Kevin Rudd seems to be the only politician on planet earth who has the ballz to ask the question directly ...

"What is the status of those reactors ... what help do you need?

The news coming from all sources appears to be getting more innaccurate ... mainly due to the fact that the Japanese Government are not telling anyone anything.

Is this because the company who owns the reactors don't want to tell us anything?

No news is good news?

I don't think so.

This whole issue smells.

News reporters are now inventing stories to fill the gaps ... and idiots are uploading doom video on the tube ... in the last 24 hours nothing new has been passed on ... only rumour.

Those stories are creating confusion and anxiety.

The Japanese Govenment needs to step up to the plate and take a few swings.

/end rant

I agree 100%! A clear, informative statement from either the company who operates the plant or the government is needed to parlay fears. Even if the situation isn't ideal, the more information on it, the better so the people around it know what is going on and so other governments know what to send/offer in terms of help.

The japanese are in a bit of a pickle with regards to releasing news, many people exaggerate things and so they run the risk of things being sensationalised(like the explosions) and people panicking or they do not tell enough and have a general complacency around the issue. Seeing as the word nuclear is mentioned I don't think people are going to be complacent so the less panic the better as being frank is not a good idea with us laymen sometimes.

If the media of the world were more controlled if that is the right word then it might be better but accuracy is not a strong point. Ratings and "news" are more important so I doubt if more openness was used things would be reported well.

Negative! I think journalist need to do REAL journalism again rather regurgitating whatever the AP puts over the wire. Journalist need to do their homework and then call bullshit on their colleagues when they catch them being irresponsible. Of course, the alternative media already does this, but it needs to happen in the main stream media as well.

No, Chernobyl had no containment vessel around it's reactor. Chernobyl's core melted through the floor producing the infamous "elephant foot". This can't happen here. The vessel is designed to withstand 5000° C. The core, even if "melted down" will burn at 3000° C. So worst case scenario is a giant lead building around the plant eventually, but nowhere near the amount of radiation release. A fraction of it actually. Remember, Chernobyl's core was exploded up and out from the plant in all directions. That can't happen with the containment vessels in this case.

You are exactly right. All we have right now is speculation that spent fuel rods that react too slowly to power the plant are being exposed, reacting just fast enough to build heat faster than it can be released, and possibly even beginning to vaporize. And if that gets to full force, you have a "Chernoble" that looks like a torch rather than a firecracker.

Genius! The question I have is, if there is no "nuclear fire", where are the heavy elements they keep detecting coming from?

I saw a report that the backup-generators were taken out by the tsunami. Big Question: If you're building near the ocean, why would your backup generators be within reach of a tsunami?

I think they wanted them local to the plant to avoid issues with torn power lines. My thought would be to put them on top of the plant instead of at ground level. Yes, you have to pump the diesel up to the tanks, but that would have been a small price to pay for the added security.

For days CNN et al have been putting anti-nuke power activist on TV and touting them as "nuclear experts". I've googled severl of these people and they have clear track records going back decades as anti-nuclear activists. Once again, a news network trying to make news rather than report it.

From The Nuclear Energy Institute

Latest NEI Updates

UPDATE AS OF 11:35 A.M. EDT, THURSDAY, MARCH 17:

Fukushima Daiichi
The reactors at the Fukushima Daiichi plant are in stable condition and are being cooled with seawater, but workers at the plant continue efforts to add cooling water to fuel pools at reactors 3 and 4.

The status of the reactors at the site is as follows:

Reactor 1’s primary containment is believed to be intact and the reactor is in a stable condition. Seawater injection into the reactor is continuing.

Reactor 2 is in stable condition with seawater injection continuing. The reactor’s primary containment may not have been breached, Tokyo Electric Power Co. and World Association of Nuclear Operators officials said on Thursday.

Access problems at the site have delayed connection of a temporary cable to restore off-site electricity. The connection will provide power to the control rod drive pump, instrumentation, batteries and the control room. Power has not been available at the site since the earthquake on March 11.

Reactor 3 is in stable condition with seawater injection continuing. The primary containment is believed to be intact. Pressure in the containment has fluctuated due to venting of the reactor containment structure.

TEPCO officials say that although one side of the concrete wall of the fuel pool structure has collapsed, the steel liner of the pool remains intact, based on aerial photos of the reactor taken on March 17. The pool still has water providing some cooling for the fuel; however, helicopters dropped water on the reactor four times during the morning (Japan time) on March 17. Water also was sprayed at reactor 4 using high-pressure water cannons.

Reactors 5 and 6 were both shut down before the quake occurred. Primary and secondary containments are intact at both reactors. Temperature instruments in the spent fuel pools at reactors 5 and 6 are operational, and temperatures are being maintained at about 62 degrees Celsius. TEPCO is continuing efforts to restore power at reactor 5.

Fukushima Daini
All four reactors at the Fukushima Daini plant have reached cold shutdown conditions with normal cooling being maintained using residual heat removal systems.


Quite a contrast to all the panic and fear mongering being plastered all of the airwaves.

I understand that you can irradiate things with the spit-off particles. That would lead to radioactive...lots of things, but stuff like Cesium wouldn't just magically appear. For that to happen, the metal itself (rather than its subatomic particles) must escape containment.

I'm just waiting for this thing to get hot enough to melt a large portion of the metal pellets in open air, spewing vaporized metal like a welding rod. Remember that they said these rods can reach 2000° F on their own, but the boiling point of Cesium is only 1240° F. One need only reach the melting point of the pellets before the cesium comes boiling out.

LOL - I'm considering stealing that for a sig line. If I ever get into a hippy forum that is..

Hey Reynod - can you start a leftover Hippy forum?? I think Badge would love to sign up, and maybe SS too .

Sandbag the reactor. Air drop sand and fill it in.

I'm thinking this current administration wants a bigger disaster. It's been 7 days. Where is the US Navy? One carrier could create enough electricity to run 100 circulating pumps, what the heck is going on?

Okinawa naval base isn't that far. Load up some generators and some centrifugal pumps and get up there!!

So. CA has sold out of bananas.

Thyroid cancer prevention? Now there something new for old hippies to consider. You and me. I know a guy who's probably immune from eating his stash of salt when he saw the red lights pulling him over. A 60's thing. A time when the average Peace Officer asked, "Is that Morton's insense?"

Dude, you're the one who said to sandbag the reactor. That's the kind of problem they're having to this day at Chernobyl.

I don't know why nobody else has proposed this, but wouldn't "lead bagging" it be better? The problem with sand is that it melts and ruins the integrity of the concrete, wouldn't lead pellets improve the situation if they melted? Remember that lead is a SINK, it can draw the heat out of the rods and disperse it into the surroundings without leaking radiation.

if lead was used to containg radiation and that lead was compromised, melted etc., the lead would no longer serve it's intended purpose...to limit the amount of "scatter" radiation. Lead used in the proper application, filter etc., can control the amount of scatter radiation, the direction, speed and obviously the amount employed.

true and good advice. are you an md from siu?

Lead is used to filter radiation exposure. The lead is precisely conformed, tool and died, into a precise mechanical fit working radiation filter. With lead filters, radiation exposure or the creation of radiation is controlled when using x-ray. What the lead filter controls is the amount of radiation that is employed while controlling the 'scatter'. Also the speed and accuracy of the x-ray (and any radiation) is controlled through the use of lead filters. I wasn't aware that lead actually absorbed radiation. Could be. We have some lead filters that have been in use 25 years now. It's not the filter that wears out or needs replaced, it ithe 'head' or 'tube' that creates the x-ray that weakens over time. Radiation can be 'controlled' and lead is one application to do so. Of course we are dealing with the ultimate 'scatter' or uncontrolled release of radiation effect. It will be interesting to see if lead comes in to play should the facility be 'buried'.

Note I install and I adjust the filters as needed for which particular x-ray of the cranium needed. I also adjust the x-ray head as to the amount of x-ray to produce depending on body size. So, I control the amount, speed, distance and accuracy of the x-ray as well as controll the radiation and particularily the 'scatter' radiation before taking any craniofacial x-ray. One thing I do that is not common in x-ray is to x-ray the cranium. Do you believe we work with oral surgeons asking for my head film because they do not have the equiptment.

As long as I do my job properly, there is no scatter radiation through the use of our 'control'. When that control is not deployed correctly, the scatter radiation is real.

Be interesting to see if lead is used in the end to containg the leaking radiation. I suppose at this point the radiation levels omitted into the atmosphere could be stronger before weaker. Be interesting to watch how this plays out. The creation of the scatter radiation has to get weaker or burn out at some point. How to containing it until it does seems to be a perplexing question. This is an instance when you don't want to say, "give it time." I think some measures to solve such a future situation should be top priority. What's the lifespan of the reactor doing what it's doing with the material it has currently in the condition it is in? Probably no one really knows. I can't venture even a guess.

TMI and Cernobyl surely gave incintive to find a solution for this situation as it has occured once again. All the education and technology since those disasters appears to have gone into building bigger better, newer facilities. The U.S. has hundreds of these power plants. No plan should one 'fail'. There's a nuclear power plant on the Pacific Ocean about 60 miles from here. It fails and the people responsible for it's operation have no idea of how to stop the resulting radiation? Just stay away? There must be enough nuclear material and power in that facility to spew for most the upcoming decade. We have bit off more than we can chew in this regard. It is all very overwhelming.

Now they'd be adding toxic heavy metal to the mix ..

I dunno - that thought occurred to me as well - dump lead on the melted cores and then cap with concrete. However the lead would eventually find its way into the groundwater, but the reactor is at the edge of the ocean anyway..

The News and Leisure section is where we encourage you to post "captivating" stories that you think will get others to engage positively. I tried to tidy things up and kick things along.

We get a lot of traffic for this area - check the sheer number of "reads" for some of the threads.

As badge is the master of off-topic discussions expect that things will meander along ... I will let things run their course and only close threads that have been inactive for a while. You can ask for them to be reopened too !

The only rules are that you need to follow the TOU ... so you can't discuss Mrs Phillips here ... well ... not graphically, and you need to post something that is "Newsworthy" ... whatever that means I can't begin to explain as I am merely a disabled forklift driver in real life ... and possibly uglier than your dog.

Crashman's de-industrialisation comment was a doozy ... yes.

RE: Hippy forum we would need Pike to post here ... he was the last surviving hippy from the old forum ...

badge is "hippyish" but his taste in music doesn't end with Bob Dylan ... and he is way too capitalistic ... has flash cars and servants.

badge possibly has servants for his servants ... who might dress as hippies?

StrangeStranger is more like James Dean than a hippy ...