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ASUS or AMD mobo for existing I7-980x cpu

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October 16, 2011 8:36:59 PM

Hello, I'm a video editor who wants to salvage my current equipment into a better machine.

Existing equipment is:
I7-980x.
Kingston 12GB DDR3 1600 CL9 (3pcs)
Nvidia Quadro FX 3800.
Multiple SATA(6) drives.
Multiple USB(3) devices.

My Task is to duel Raid(0) twin vertex 3 Max IOPS SSD.

Motherboard suggestions greatly appreciated.
Price is not an issue.
a c 207 Ĉ ASUS
a c 717 V Motherboard
October 16, 2011 8:49:47 PM

You have (2) choices either a MOBO with a Marvell 9182 (88SE9182) or an expensive (cost more than MOBO) LSI RAID Card x4 or x8 PCIe.

The Gigabyte GA-X58A-OC or 'G1' series all use Marvell 9182 SATA3 which use x2 PCIe lanes and offer RAID 0 (Marvell 9128 use x1 PCIe lane and crap-out ~380MB/s).

GA-X58A-OC - http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3...
G1.Guerrilla - http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3...
G1.Sniper - http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3...
G1.Assassin - http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3...
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a b Ĉ ASUS
a b V Motherboard
October 16, 2011 8:57:47 PM

You can't run Intel CPUs on AMD based mobos...
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October 16, 2011 10:45:08 PM

jaquith said:
You have (2) choices either a MOBO with a Marvell 9182 (88SE9182) or an expensive (cost more than MOBO) LSI RAID Card x4 or x8 PCIe.

The Gigabyte GA-X58A-OC or 'G1' series all use Marvell 9182 SATA3 which use x2 PCIe lanes and offer RAID 0 (Marvell 9128 use x1 PCIe lane and crap-out ~380MB/s).

GA-X58A-OC - http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3...
G1.Guerrilla - http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3...
G1.Sniper - http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3...
G1.Assassin - http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3...


Response from OCZ to me:

In order to get the full speed out of the Vertex 3 drive, particularly if you want to put two of them into raid0, you would need either a Sandybridge based motherboard, or a high end PCI-E raid controller card that uses as least 4x PCI-E lanes worth of bandwidth.

What do you think?
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October 16, 2011 10:46:29 PM

beenthere said:
You can't run Intel CPUs on AMD based mobos...



Thank you, You and others like you are the reason I'm here asking questions.
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October 16, 2011 10:53:41 PM

rolli59 said:
LGA1366 board with multiple SATA6 GB and USB 3 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...



The PCI express does not look like it will do the job as it was described to me by by OCZ Tech support. Your opinion please

In order to get the full speed out of the Vertex 3 drive, particularly if you want to put two of them into raid0, you would need either a Sandybridge based motherboard, or a high end PCI-E raid controller card that uses as least 4x PCI-E lanes worth of bandwidth.
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a c 307 Ĉ ASUS
a c 1163 V Motherboard
October 16, 2011 11:02:39 PM

Well it has the Marvell SE9128 controller which Jaquith described as crap, so the card might be your best option.
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a c 207 Ĉ ASUS
a c 717 V Motherboard
October 17, 2011 12:28:47 AM

HWB said:
Response from OCZ to me:

In order to get the full speed out of the Vertex 3 drive, particularly if you want to put two of them into raid0, you would need either a Sandybridge based motherboard, or a high end PCI-E raid controller card that uses as least 4x PCI-E lanes worth of bandwidth.

What do you think?

I don't disagree that a Dedicated RAID Card is faster, I have an LSI which is why I mentioned it. However, on 99% of the X58's correct (Marvell 9128 is slow). Even the Marvell 9182 is x2 PCIe lanes (1000MB/s - real world 800MB/s+), SSD's scale pretty good and sure you'll loose 'some' bandwidth in RAID 0, but is 120MB/s~150MB/s worth ditching a $1000 980X or buying a $400~$600 LSI? IMO - Hell No! Your Money! :D 

Q - how often are you hitting 100% R/W on you SSD?
Q - what are you writing/reading? IF it's an uncompressible file i.e MPEG-2/4/H.264 then you'll see the SSD crawl slower than a HDD. SSD 'fake' R/W is from compression and expansion of data!!! :o  Ask OCZ about the R/W speeds of a H.264 file on a Vertex 3! I've seen them as the Vertex 3 get fuller go down to ~80MB/s.

G1.Sniper Marvell 9182 in RAID 0 ; OCZ Vertex 3

GA-X58A-OC Marvell 9182 in RAID 0 ; C300 Stripe 128K


ASUS R3E RocketRaid 2720 ; OCZ Vertex 3
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October 17, 2011 1:40:33 AM

jaquith said:
I don't disagree that a Dedicated RAID Card is faster, I have an LSI which is why I mentioned it. However, on 99% of the X58's correct (Marvell 9128 is slow). Even the Marvell 9182 is x2 PCIe lanes (1000MB/s - real world 800MB/s+), SSD's scale pretty good and sure you'll loose 'some' bandwidth in RAID 0, but is 120MB/s~150MB/s worth ditching a $1000 980X or buying a $400~$600 LSI? IMO - Hell No! Your Money! :D 

Q - how often are you hitting 100% R/W on you SSD?
Q - what are you writing/reading? IF it's an uncompressible file i.e MPEG-2/4/H.264 then you'll see the SSD crawl slower than a HDD. SSD 'fake' R/W is from compression and expansion of data!!! :o  Ask OCZ about the R/W speeds of a H.264 file on a Vertex 3! I've seen them as the Vertex 3 get fuller go down to ~80MB/s.

G1.Sniper Marvell 9182 in RAID 0 ; OCZ Vertex 3
http://www.kcpimp.com/img/misc/vertex3raid0-kcsr.org.png
GA-X58A-OC Marvell 9182 in RAID 0 ; C300 Stripe 128K
http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/1448/marvell9182raid0x58oc.png

ASUS R3E RocketRaid 2720 ; OCZ Vertex 3
http://img860.imageshack.us/img860/6061/rr2720vtx3r0.jpg



Thank you for all the info. I have a Marvel 88SE9128 on my current Intel dx58so2 mobo and it is not capable of even one drive much less two but I must mention that Intel attached controller through the PCI-E interface with only 1x of bandwidth thus maximum throughput is around 350mb/s.

I was kind of hoping for an ASUS solution but it is starting to look like a dedicated Raid Controller is going to be the way I have to go.
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October 17, 2011 2:21:15 AM

Ok, I just want to make one thing abundantly clear to ya. If you go with ANY raid solution you will cost yourself trim support which means after only a couple months of use your drives WILL slow right now, after several months they will be at a near crawl. do NOT forget this.
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a c 207 Ĉ ASUS
a c 717 V Motherboard
October 17, 2011 2:33:30 AM

HWB said:
Thank you for all the info. I have a Marvel 88SE9128 on my current Intel dx58so2 mobo and it is not capable of even one drive much less two but I must mention that Intel attached controller through the PCI-E interface with only 1x of bandwidth thus maximum throughput is around 350mb/s.

I was kind of hoping for an ASUS solution but it is starting to look like a dedicated Raid Controller is going to be the way I have to go.
I wrote:
Quote:
You have (2) choices either a MOBO with a Marvell 9182 (88SE9182) or an expensive (cost more than MOBO) LSI RAID Card x4 or x8 PCIe.

The Gigabyte GA-X58A-OC or 'G1' series all use Marvell 9182 SATA3 which use x2 PCIe lanes and offer RAID 0 (Marvell 9128 use x1 PCIe lane and crap-out ~380MB/s).


DUH! Where do you see me ANYWHERE suggesting you get a Marvell 9128??!!

I went on to say:
Quote:
I don't disagree that a Dedicated RAID Card is faster, I have an LSI which is why I mentioned it. However, on 99% of the X58's correct (Marvell 9128 is slow). Even the Marvell 9182 is x2 PCIe lanes (1000MB/s - real world 800MB/s+)

It's a double negative; Don't Disagree = Agree.

Problem, I mentioned!
Quote:
IF it's an uncompressible file i.e MPEG-2/4/H.264 then you'll see the SSD crawl slower than a HDD.


Therefore, please read carefully before assuming.
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October 17, 2011 5:08:47 PM

jaquith said:
I wrote:
Quote:
You have (2) choices either a MOBO with a Marvell 9182 (88SE9182) or an expensive (cost more than MOBO) LSI RAID Card x4 or x8 PCIe.

The Gigabyte GA-X58A-OC or 'G1' series all use Marvell 9182 SATA3 which use x2 PCIe lanes and offer RAID 0 (Marvell 9128 use x1 PCIe lane and crap-out ~380MB/s).


DUH! Where do you see me ANYWHERE suggesting you get a Marvell 9128??!!

I went on to say:
Quote:
I don't disagree that a Dedicated RAID Card is faster, I have an LSI which is why I mentioned it. However, on 99% of the X58's correct (Marvell 9128 is slow). Even the Marvell 9182 is x2 PCIe lanes (1000MB/s - real world 800MB/s+)

It's a double negative; Don't Disagree = Agree.

Problem, I mentioned!
Quote:
IF it's an uncompressible file i.e MPEG-2/4/H.264 then you'll see the SSD crawl slower than a HDD.


Therefore, please read carefully before assuming.


I would not be here asking my dumb questions if I did not need good sound advice before handing out a sizable chunk of cash.

My data will be mp4(h.264) thus if I understand correctly, my goal is not achievable. The is no sense in spending $1400 for two drives and a controller to end up with something that crawls slower than a HDD.

For my own education, can you tell my why the compressed data files slow down the SSD from 500MBS (75,000 IOPS) to something comparable to a HDD and why the HDD does not slow down in a like fashion?


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a b Ĉ ASUS
a b V Motherboard
October 17, 2011 6:04:28 PM

jaquith Has provided excellent insight into your problem.
(1) Difference in compressable data. OCZ SSDs internal Controller incorprates an algorthum that compresses the data, problem is that this is not "real life" as most data is not readly compressable and therefore is more for marketing hype. When dealing with "real life" data the marvel based Sata III's preform equally as well (ie Curical M4) as OCZ max IOPS for seq uncompressed data.

(3) Understand your desires to reuse your CPU and reduce cost. But You already indicated buying a new MB. Factoring out the MB cost (and SSD costs), a New SB would only add $200 for I5-2500K (or $300 for a I5-2600K). This would not only bring native Sata III suport, But also add USB 3 support. The Intel Sata III (using RST driver 10.6) ports provide considerable improvement over the marvel Sata III controller.

Screen shot of My M4 using AS SSD which uses Compressed data!! (on Intel controller)
Raid0 would improve the Seq read/writes, but as previously mentioned you would lose TRIM support. The M4 does have a CG, alas not the best. Myself I use two SSDs, not in raid0. One for OS+Programs and the 2nd for a "working" disk which has most used data files and as a scratch disk for temporarily working with larger files.


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a c 207 Ĉ ASUS
a c 717 V Motherboard
October 17, 2011 6:17:00 PM

IF it were 'me' RAID 10 x4 HDDs or maybe a RAID 0 x4 HDDs (workspace); 7200 RPM or faster IF using MPEG-2/4 (H.264) files; RAID Card with good sized cache and battery backup. Most everything else sure RAID 0 on SSD's is blazing fast. However, in most cases I cannot imaging R/W of data as a bottleneck - I can easily imagine the GPU(s) and CPU(s) as a bottleneck.

I'd start a post here -> http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/forum-32-361.html ; "SSD in RAID 0 for Video Editing" and see the responses you get then ask for benchmarks and TRIM issues and incompressible files being slow ... etc.

I assume that you are also working with 'RAW' files, and those are 'compressible.'

Explanation - http://www.anandtech.com/Show/Index/4256?cPage=9&all=Fa...

Later OCZ Firmware versions may have improved the problem, BUT TRIM does NOT work in RAID!

Completely TRIM the drive and you'll notice that while compressible writes are nice and speedy, incompressible writes happen at a max of 70 - 80MB/s. In our Vertex 3 Pro preview I mentioned that it seemed as if SandForce had nearly fixed the issue. The worst I ever recorded performance on the 240GB drive after my aforementioned fill procedure was 198MB/s - a pretty healthy level.

The 120GB drive doesn't mask the drop nearly as well. The same process I described above drops performance to the 100 - 130MB/s range. This is better than what we saw with the Vertex 2, but still a valid concern if you plan on storing/manipulating a lot of highly compressed data (e.g. H.264 video) on your SSD.
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