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Looking for PCI-e x16 Riser Card for an intel style server

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February 18, 2011 1:53:56 AM

OK, i have an image similar to what I need. The following image shows the right connector to the mother board. The issue is that i need the correct connector to use a video card.

http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/public/FvGRFg3UF8pLCZv...

The above link shows an image of a PCI-e x8 riser card, I need one identical except x16.

Acceptable alternative is to give me a way to bridge a PCI-x slot into a PCI-e x16, low profile or full.

~Zarius
February 18, 2011 2:26:33 AM

Well, Davcon, you got half the requirement. Both of those links take me to areas where I can get a PCI-e16 riser card. The problem being that the connection point between the card and the motherboard. the connection point looks, unlike every PCI-e riser you've shown, looks absolutely nothing like a PCI-e slot.
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February 18, 2011 2:36:45 AM

If your PCIe x16 slot doesn't look like this, then it isn't PCIe x16





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February 18, 2011 4:00:16 AM

Shown in the following, my current PCI-x riser card. The attachment slot in this unit is - according to IBM's website, the diagram printed in the server chassis, and my own knowledge of computers - a PCI-x slot.

The portion where the card interfaces to the motherboard is - also according to IBM's website, the diagram printed in the server chassis, and my own knowledge of computers - NOT a PCI-x slot.

So, since I seem to have a clue what I'm talking about, it is NOT a PCI to PCI card, it is NOT a PCI-e to PCI-e card, and it is NOT a PCI-x to PCI-x card. And since I never said the slot was a PCI-e x16, I have no idea where you got that it even might be.

Now, what I looking for is this lovely little quasi useless card in the format of a PCI-e x16 slot. Or a bridge/conversion card/ribbon to turn a full sized PCI-x slot into a full sized or low profile PCI-e x16 slot.
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February 18, 2011 5:35:53 AM

In for your first post you said you need one identical but x16. The risers we showed you are in fact x16. What you have is PCI-x, which is ancient. I don't think there is a way to convert it to PCIe x16 at all, and there is no such thing as PCI x 16.

Take a look at this article. Perhaps it will clear up your confusion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI-X
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February 18, 2011 5:45:25 AM

Quote:
Acceptable alternative is to give me a way to bridge a PCI-x slot into a PCI-e x16, low profile or full.


There is electrically no way.

Quote:
Confusion with PCI-Express

PCI-X is often confused with PCI Express, commonly abbreviated as PCI-E or PCIe. The main source of this confusion is the fact that "PCI-X" sounds similar to "PCI Express". Visually there is no such similarity. While they are both high-speed computer buses for internal peripherals, they differ in many ways. The first is that PCI-X is a parallel interface that is directly backward compatible with all but the oldest (5-volt) standard PCI devices. PCIe is a serial bus with a different physical interface that was designed to supersede both PCI and PCI-X.

PCI-X and standard PCI buses may run on a PCIe bridge, similar to the way ISA buses ran on standard PCI buses in some computers. PCIe also matches PCI-X and even PCI-X 2.0 in maximum bandwidth. PCIe 1.0 x1 offers 250 MB/s in each direction, and up to 32 lanes (x32) is currently supported, giving a maximum of 8 GB/s in each direction.

PCI-X has a number of technological and economical disadvantages compared to PCI-Express. The 64-bit parallel interface requires inherently difficult trace routing, because as with all parallel interfaces, the signals from the bus must arrive simultaneously or within a very short window, and noise from adjacent slots may cause interference. The serial interface of PCIe suffers fewer such problems and therefore requires less complex and less expensive designs. PCI-X buses, like standard PCI, are half-duplex bidirectional whereas PCIe buses are full-duplex bidirectional. PCI-X buses run only as fast as the slowest device whereas PCIe devices are able to independently negotiate the bus speed. Also, PCI-X slots are longer than PCIe 1x through PCIe 16x, which makes it impossible to make short cards for PCI-X. PCI-X slots thus take quite a bit of space on motherboards, which can be a problem for ATX and smaller form factors.


From what I gather, you can convert PCIe to PCIx easily... but not the other way around. If you google PCIx to PCIe adapters, you will find countless articles about how it can't be done or is useless to be done or more costly than a new board to be done. As for PCIe to PCIx adaptors and PCIe to standard PCI, or PCIx to standard PCI it can be done without much trouble. So perhaps you should get a PCIx to PCI riser and use a standard PCI video card. Sure you don't get the most modern GPU and a slower interface... but even if you could adapt your PCIx to PCIe, you still won't get the bandwidth and advantages of the PCIe x16 cards.

http://en.community.dell.com/support-forums/servers/f/9...
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February 18, 2011 6:00:44 AM

... Why would I need a PCI-x to PCI? PCI v2.0 will fit into any PCI-x slot. I was hoping for a little more oomph in the vid for this thing than can be gotten with a PCI card.
Also, no, the card was not a PCI-e to anything. I will admit that the unit is actually the wrong adapter, it is nothing similar to any form of PCI slot. It's a proprietary unit, so that you can only use it on the computer system it was designed for.
So far as I know, even the most modern server units use PCI-x for hi bandwidth transfers. The difference between a PCI-e and a PCI-x are like the difference between a two lane road with a speed limit of 70 and a 6 lane road with a speed limit of 55. One's great if you just need a little bit of cargo space moved repeatedly, the other is great if you need massive amounts of cargo moved one way. Identical theory with PCI Express and PCI Extended. One's made for video and (originally) audio, where you're just moving a little bit back and forth, the other is for larger file transfers.
Lastly, if you can convert a PCI-e into a PCI-x slot, you can most certainly do it the other way around. It's like saying you can put a nail into your foot but not pull it back out, ever, to say that you can go one way but not the other. It might be moot to some people, but it's still perfectly possible.
If you're going to say that something is electrically impossible, at least do me the small favor of learning a little electrical, electronics, or computer theory.
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February 18, 2011 6:59:35 AM

You don't need to be an @$$, but when you find the appropriate adapter, let me know. Because there are thousands of people searching for them online with no avail. Guess I better throw away my bachelor of science electronic engineering degree since I don't know what I'm talking about. But maybe you are right, ITT was pretty lame, and all the years I've been building computers and homebrew amateur radios, I don't know anything about things being electrically compatible or not.

But... Let's take a look at your logic.... By your logic I can install a Core 2 Duo e7500 LGA 775 CPU into an 865 chipset with LGA775 socket and it will work. Unfortunately the Core 2 CPU is electrically incompatible with that socket on that kind of board with that particular chipset even though it is still has the same physical socket, just as much as putting a Pentium 4 LGA 775 into a P45 chipset. The boards and CPUs require different voltages. I've got a Pentium 4 670 3.8GHz LGA775 CPU that I can put in my ASRock P43 chipset board and it will handle it fine because ASRock added some different power stages to accommodate the older CPUs voltage (so it is electrically compatible)... I've got ASUS and other boards with the same chipset that don't have the correctly stepped voltages to handle it even though the socket is physically the same, and the chipset is the same on the board.

There are many adapters that can physically and electrically only go one way and not the other. So also by your logic you could convert a standard PCI port to PCIe x16. That is total bull$hit. You can convert PCIe to standard PCI though. But if you actually knew what the hell you were talking about, then everyone would be able to help you. But there is no such product you can buy easily to do what you are asking. Even if you could convert it to PCIe, just as that Dell server link showed you, it won't support PCIe graphics. So be happy with PCI standard or let it go.

If you wanted to say something else that makes sense, then perhaps someone can help you. So when you find something that can adapt PCI-X to PCI-E x16... you need to be a helpful spirit and post your findings as a reply on every forum in the world for all the people needing this adapter. Cause no one can find it.
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February 18, 2011 7:02:00 AM

dadiggle, he wants to adapt PCI-X to PCI-E x16. I know you can go the opposite direction, but did you ever hear of this?

If so, how come nobody on the internet can find said adapter?

I don't think the original poster made any sense with his original request and wants to argue that since it can go one way, it has to go the other.

I need a drink.
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February 18, 2011 7:09:10 AM

The OP, LOL. I was just asking you have you seen said adapter in your lifetime before? :p 
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February 18, 2011 7:10:23 AM

I think once the OP finds said adapter, we can contact the manufacturer to make CPU socket adapters too... Like adapt the new Bulldozer to fit in an AM2 board. LOL
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February 18, 2011 7:32:11 PM

Ok, since all I seem to be getting is morons, I'm killing this thread.

To clear up said moronic tenancies, here's a little info:
1) Ohio has already stated that it's perfectly possible to go fro a PCI-e to a PCI-x slot. And, as he pointed out, there's about a billion of the card- and ribbon- style adapters on the market.
2) If it's possible to go from PCI-e to PCI-x, then it's equally possible to go the other way. The fact that nobody MAKES that type of adapter does not mean it's impossible. Just that nobody thinks there's a reason.
3) I'm not confused as to the difference. The article doesn't say it's impossible. In fact, it basically says it's possible, just that the article's writer thinks it's impractical.
4) It IS impossible to have different CPUs work in different slots, not because they are electrically different (in operation, they work exactly the same), but because the motherboards they are designed to fit are designed to use them differently.

Now that we've cleared this up, have fun picking on me behind my back, because I'm not coming back here.
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February 18, 2011 11:08:44 PM

Wasn't trying to pick on you. Just trying to point out a serial type bus can be adapted to a parallel bus, but the other way around isn't normally worth doing. The CPU sockets I pointed out are all the same LGA775, but electrically the voltages are in different steppings and the signaling is different even though they are physically exactly the same.

We are only being harsh because instead of listening to us, you just want to insult our intelligence since you can't find what you need. But there are many things that can go one way and not the other in electronics, especially between different BUS types. You can make PCIe become PCI, but you cannot make PCI become PCIe. That is the only point I'm trying to make.

As you stated you want more oomph from your server board when the sockets in those boards were never designed for graphics cards like this. Only their workstation counterparts. Just as part of the pasted article said "PCI-X has a number of technological and economical disadvantages compared to PCI-Express."

Take it how you will, sorry to have upset you.
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