Upgrading GPU - Will my System bottlekneck? @Recommendations

[sybreed]

System Specs:

Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU Q8200 @ 2.33GHz
BIOS: Phoenix - AwardBIOS v6.00PG
GPU: NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GT SLi
Memory: 4096 DDR2 @ 800mhz.
Soundcard: ASUS XONAR D2X
Windows 7 64-bit
Motherboard: nVidia 650i SLi
PSU: (DELL D750E-00) Delta 750W OEM unit


Hello.

I'm considering replacing my Current GPU with either ASUS GeForce GTX 560Ti 1GB or ASUS ENGTX460 DirectCU 1GB. Depending on:

1. How much if any, bottleneck will occur If I upgrade to either GPU?
I play games at 1920x1200; World of Warcraft. Empire Total War. In the future; Crysis2. And other demanding games.

2. Will my PSU handle the purchase of either the 460 or 560. If I also upgrade my PC with a Core i7 I7-2600K 8 MB ? (CPU will only be purchased if bottleneck is to much of an issue, if any at all.)

3. Is the Core i7 I7-2600K 8 MB Overkill? and if so. Any recommendations to a cheaper CPU that will do the job without problems? The reason for me to consider the i7 is so I wouldn't need to upgrade within the next few years.

~ Thank you in advance for taking your time and reading my post. Much appreciated!
best regards.

 

[dogman_1234]

Hello, and welcome to THG.

1) Maybe a 10%. it is hard to give a good estimate. I would say you may be fine for a while as long as the CPU/GPU intense programs are at low setting.

2) It should. With that build, I would say 650 watts is great.

30 If you are upgrading in the next four years, wait for Ivy bridge or Haswell.

 

[dalauder]

IF that PSU is good, it's enough wattage for the graphics. I don't trust that brand (or OEM PSUs) and stick to Corsair, Antec, Seasonic, Silverstone, or XFX.

The Q8200 sometimes bottlenecks graphics. It'll be fine with the 460 for sure and probably a 560 though. The memory size on your graphics card will come into play at 1920x1200--so get the biggest one you can for the same price. If your benchmarks are notably below what the card gets in reviews, then your CPU might be bottlenecking. If so, that CPU should OC to 3.0GHz with minimal voltage tweaking (just fsb adjustments).

If you OC, reduce ram speeds since adjusting the FSB also speeds up RAM. And remember to monitor temps and set voltage settings to manual defaults, not Auto. Actually, if you OC--that's a thread on its own.

Personally, I'd buy the HD 6950 2GB.

 

[sybreed]

I've been unsuccessful in Overclocking my CPU higher than 2,5Ghz with stock Voltages.

I haven't played around to much increasing Voltages, my motherboard and stock Cooler deffo ain't helping. An in addition, I get confused when It comes to vCore, FSBcore, etc etc in my BIOS. there are tons of settings to be adjusted, it seems. And without an aftermarket cooler. Ive kept away from trying to OC any further.

Latest attempt resulted in no Video signal after a crash attempting the 2.65 Ghz, while increasing Voltages. But I don't know if I increased the correct ones. I fixed the lack of video signal with a CMOS and Mobo Battery switch. No Biggie.


Regarding Ram timings; I gave up on that. That combined with the CPU voltages made me decide to wait.

 

[dogman_1234]

Do you need help overclocking?

If so, go over to the Overclocking side of the Forum and ask there.

 

[dalauder]

RAM timings: a common cause of failed overclocks. If your RAM runs at 3/2 ratio x base clock, you'd get 800MHz RAM speeds (Double Data Rate [2x] x base clock [266] x ration [3/2]). when you increase your base clock to 300Mhz, you'd be running the RAM designed for 800MHz at 900Mhz--which could cause instability.

So decrease your RAM ration to 1:1 (533 at stock speeds) and when you increase your base clock to 300MHz, your RAM will only be at 600Mhz--which won't cause crashing. Leave your timings on Auto and the Bios will run timings appropriate for that speed.

 

[sybreed]

Oki thanks. I'll remember that for any future OC attempts.

 

[sybreed]

Anymore useful input on my above questions would me much appreciated.

 

[saaiello]

The Nvidia 650i chipset will not be able to overclock the 45nm quad more then 400 MHZ and that's if you are lucky. Even with a P45 chipset which is the best motherboard for the job has trouble getting the Q8200 stable over 3GHz.

The Q8200 is a very capable processor and should not hold you back to much although anything under 3GHz is not optimal for gaming, but will do just fine with some minor detail setting turned down. I have gamed with the Q8200 before I got my Q9550 and at stock speeds it did just fine not the best but it will work. I only see about a 20% difference at the most between the Q9550 and the Q8200.

 

[dalauder]

i7-2600K? Amazing CPU and you don't need it right now. The Q8200 is good enough for you.

 

[spentshells]

be sure to get the 560 the 460 is to close to the 8800GT's sli

 

[jprahman]

If you ever do decide to upgrade to a Sandy Bridge system a i7-2600K isn't the best option. A i5-2500K is $100 cheaper and will give you the same game performance. The only difference between the i7-2600K and i5-2500K is that the former has a little more cache and Hyper-threading. Both overclock like a beast, and Hyper-threading doesn't improve game performance much if at at and I have even heard of Hyper-Threading reducing game performance.

 

[sybreed]

Oki.

I'm buying ASUS GeForce GTX 560Ti 1GB

Am I able to use Core i5 I5-2500K 6 MB with my current Motherboard?
And if so, Is the COOLER MASTER HYPER 212 PLUS a good cooler for the Core i5-2500k?

Thank you all for your replies. Much appreciated!

 

[jprahman]

You have to get a different motherboard if you want a i5-2500K. You'll need a LGA1155 motherboard, which unfortunately are in short supply because of a recall of the chipset and won't be available in quantity until mid-March/early-April.

The Hyper 212+ is an excellent choice.

 

[sybreed]

Will this do: ASUS P8P67 Deluxe ?

 

[dalauder]

Nope, you need a new motherboard (LGA 1155) and DDR3 RAM to go with the i5-2500K. You may as well wait for Ivy Bridge though since the Q8200 can probably handle a GTX 560 Ti just fine.

 

[dalauder]

Any P67 or H67 board can work with an i5. I highly recommend a P67 because it allows overclocking. But if you want a new build (not that you really need one), you can post in the New Builds section.

 

[sybreed]

So far:

ASUS gtx 560ti 1gb
ASUS P8PB7 Evo
Intel Core i5 2500k
Cooler master hyper 212 Plus
Ram undecided
PSU Doesn't need upgrading.

Everything OK?

 

[dalauder]

Oh--I thought you weren't gonna upgrade considering you're probably not bottlenecked and an i5-2500K won't improve gaming performance. If you want to find out if you're bottlenecked, run some 3DMark Benchmarks and post results.

And as far as I know, P67 boards are still on recall. If you're planning an all new build, you might want to start a new thread to gain more attention. Personally, I'd go with a better graphics card if I was gonna throw down $400 on a mobo and CPU and gaming at 1920x1200.

 

[sybreed]

The listing was more as a reference if the bottleneck was to much for me to handle

If I went with the listed setup above, I'd further upgrade PSU and maybe add another 560Ti for SLi or indeed upgrade to an even greater GPU. though. Then I feel it's starting to get expensive. 560 seems very good value for money. As the Intel i5 2500k does!

 

[dalauder]

560's good for the money, 570's just as good. A 6950 and 5870 are the best deals for the money though. You may as well start with one awesome card and add a second in SLI for less than half the price down the line sometime.

Here's a good way to investigate if you'll be bottlenecked: http://3dmark.com/search?resultTypeId=232&linkedDisplayAdapters=1&cpuModelId=862&chipsetId=636
Keep the same GPU setup and search for the performance of your CPU with a graphics setup against an i7-920 or similar CPU that you know isn't bottlenecking with the identical setup. From what I saw quickly looking at the graphics component of the benchmark (since CPU/Physics component won't compare) is that a stock Q8200 get similar graphics scores to an i7-920. You can be pretty sure an OC'd Q8200 won't bottleneck.

So if you have the money (you'll want to double check what I was looking at) but I'm pretty sure you can get better graphics than a GTX 560 Ti if you want.

So...
1) No bottleneck from running GTX 560 Ti with your CPU
2) Can't be sure your PSU is adquate because it's off-brand and untrustworthy
3) i7-2600K is ridiculous overkill

 

[sybreed]

Oki... Phew, a lot of information to process!

What if I scrap the upgrading to new I5 2500K. And do this:

Purchase a new Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3LR, so I can OC my 8200. To completely avoid bottleneck. In addition adding COOLER MASTER HYPER 212 PLUS.

I've just found out complete specs for my PSU:

INPUT: (DELL D750E-00) Delta 750W OEM unit

100-120v -10a 50-60 Hz
200-240v -5a

OUTPUT: +12v1 = /18a +5v 0/ 30a
750w max +12v2 0/18a - 12v 0/0,3a
+12v3 =/ 18a +3,3 0/30a
+12 v4 0/18a + 5v5b 0/3a

Max combined power on: +5v & 3,3v
Output: 220w

Max combined power on: +12v1, +12v2
+12v3 +12v4 output 752w

With this added info, can my PSU still handle the ASUS GeForce GTX 560Ti 1GB?! :O Apparently the GPU requires 38amps on the 12v rail Line... No idea what that is.

 

[dalauder]

Make sure you connect 6-pin connectors from different rails and you're fine based on your PSU specs. Like I said, I don't trust the Delta brand, but so long as it doesn't die on you (for no reason other than poor manufacturing) it will have plenty of power.

Based off of the 3DMark 11 benchmarks, you won't be limited by your stock clocked CPU even with a GTX 570. And it is definitely not worth buying a motherboard to overclock it. Overclock in Windows very carefully with NVidia System Tools before you buy a new motherboard (do not set it to enable settings on System Startup until after you're certain your settings are stable)--but it shouldn't affect frame rates either way. Your GPU will control that since your CPU is good enough at stock.

 

[sybreed]

Best answer selected by sybreed.