How much better is the new 6000 series?
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Last response: in Graphics & Displays
ggsxt
October 3, 2010 10:46:45 PM
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Hard to say at this point. All I really can guess is that the new cards will be a decent improvement over the 5xxx cards, otherwise why waste the money to switch over production? And who knows, perhaps NVidia will have some new cards out around then too. So if you can wait a couple weeks, I'd recommend it, even if all it does is reduce prices a little.
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jyjjy said:
A really bad guess. They wouldn't bother with a new series unless the improvement is at least double that.Unless they improved CFX performance by a huge margin and are pushing dual-GPU cards. Unlikely but possible.
The baseline would be it would be at least be on par with the 480 while having better performance/watt than the 5870 and added features.
If performance is really worse or only 15% better than the HD5000s without offering some eye-catching features (like 100%+ crossfire scaling), AMD/ATI would've rather done a respin of Evergreen, clock it higher and call it a day.
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its an odd point in the market. I'm rready for my new build, have money saved but am waiting not only to see benches on sandy bridge/ bulldozer but also see how the 6k series stacks up to the 5k series/ nvidia 400 series. on the 6k series there isn't a huge wait by the end of the month benchmarks should be everywhere provided the mid october release date turns out to be real
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ggsxt
October 4, 2010 5:32:36 PM
Homeboy2
October 5, 2010 1:32:47 AM
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Lrrr
October 5, 2010 5:52:47 AM
ggsxt said:
I need to know if I should buy a GTX 480 or wait until the 18th and get a new 6000 series.Right now, we know that the 6000 series is supposed to increase tessellation performance and it'll be at par with the current Nviida fermis.For any more information, wait for release, which is just two weeks away.
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Here is the question I have. Why are they debuting the 6000 series with only their mid-range cards? Based on the chart that shows the 6870 is only comparable to the 5850 in performance, there must be a flagship model they plan to release later. In the past, a new graphics card series has always debuted with the fastest, most expensive flagship version, and the mid-range cards followed later.
I'm also wondering if that is the reason for the change in number/naming scheme. A lot of people think the 6870 is going to be the fastest card on the market. It isn't, but the name change is creating some hype for people who are expecting it to be the new Nvidia-killer. After hearing reports about problems with the AMD chip manufacturing process, it might make sense to sow some confusion. That also would explain the availability of mid-range cards, instead of high-end. If you add it all up, for me, it only raises more questions.
I'm also wondering if that is the reason for the change in number/naming scheme. A lot of people think the 6870 is going to be the fastest card on the market. It isn't, but the name change is creating some hype for people who are expecting it to be the new Nvidia-killer. After hearing reports about problems with the AMD chip manufacturing process, it might make sense to sow some confusion. That also would explain the availability of mid-range cards, instead of high-end. If you add it all up, for me, it only raises more questions.
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g00fysmiley said:
not necessarily true matto the hd5xxx series also debuted with the midrange cards (5770) . probably to sell the newer ones at a bit of a premium to early adopters then later as the months go on releas the upper and lower end cards and leveling down the new mid range cards into midrange pricingAny thoughts about the name change though? I mean one would naturally assume that the 6870 is the logical replacement for the 5870, as the top single GPU card. The change in naming creates a perception and 'hype', that just wouldn't be there if everyone understood we were only talking about a mid-range GTX460 competitor. October would be one big 'yawn' in terms of video card expectations if this were really apparent.
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probably just marketing on the numbers changing, peopel will associate the 6800 series with the 5800 series and think its much cheaper and go with the new cards. i found the 5970 odd that in the past most dual gpu cars would be just say "dual" then the gpu so 5970 would be a dual 5870 maybe they are going back to this nomenclature and so they figure the 6900 being the closest to the 7k numebr would be seen as the pinacle of the series and numbered them accordingly...
that is of coarse speculation no clue if thats how it'll play out or thier reasoning just the best i can figure
that is of coarse speculation no clue if thats how it'll play out or thier reasoning just the best i can figure
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g00fysmiley said:
not necessarily true matto the hd5xxx series also debuted with the midrange cards (5770) . probably to sell the newer ones at a bit of a premium to early adopters then later as the months go on releas the upper and lower end cards and leveling down the new mid range cards into midrange pricingNo it did not, the 5870 was first, a week later the 5850.
Heres dates and links to reviews here at TH
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/Components,1/Graphi...
Sept 23 for the 5870, 0ct 13 for the 5770/5750
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ahh so i was wrong, i had thought the 57xx were the first, mayeb they were just the first benches on the 5xxx series i came across
i am proven worng, its happened before, it will happen again. i tip my hat to mr. notty
and dalta sorry english second language so i'm bad at it sometimes. from the rumors and whats out there it appears amd/ati have decided to up the numbers on thier midrange series (have found nothing confirming this but somebody here might link an official stance on it) so the 5770 would be equivilant in the 6 series as a 6870, a 56xx would be a 67xx the 58xx would be following as a 69xx so trying to think if they do a dual chip what they will call it. as stated though thats just speculation on my part and as i see it, could be wrong
i am proven worng, its happened before, it will happen again. i tip my hat to mr. notty and dalta sorry english second language so i'm bad at it sometimes. from the rumors and whats out there it appears amd/ati have decided to up the numbers on thier midrange series (have found nothing confirming this but somebody here might link an official stance on it) so the 5770 would be equivilant in the 6 series as a 6870, a 56xx would be a 67xx the 58xx would be following as a 69xx so trying to think if they do a dual chip what they will call it. as stated though thats just speculation on my part and as i see it, could be wrong
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In the past manufacturers put out their top cards first sot that it makes their product look so much better then the previous generations. If you put out a mid level card then you won't look much better then your competitor and then when you put out the high level people will have the feeling that it can't be better becasue the original card wasn't better.
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The psychology of marketing is really very interesting. My take is that they usually release the top flagship model to show off the high-end performance, which usually makes it the "fastest card on the planet" at the time. But the prices are so high, only a few can afford one. So the rest of us begin craving one, anticipating the release of a lower priced model, and counting the days until we can buy one. When it happens, bam!, off we go to the Egg to purchase one.
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Coldest European Winter in 1,000 Years? Weather Channel Says Not So Much
Read more: http://newsfeed.time.com/2010/10/05/coldest-european-wi...
Now that is going to make some sub zero Fermi's on air.
Read more: http://newsfeed.time.com/2010/10/05/coldest-european-wi...
Now that is going to make some sub zero Fermi's on air. Score
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My guess is 25-35% for normal performance, and pretty much doubling in tess/DX11 performance, or some very impressive improvement. Heres some math for everybody. Cypress 5870 stocks at 4.8 GHz effective. The Gigabyte Super OC is at 5 GHz. An increase of 5%. The core clock is increased 12%. So lets say overall clock speed increase 8.5% Here:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/3732/overclocked-our-cust...
On average, it beats the stock 5870 by about 5-15%, so lets just call it 10% for the sake of simple math. 8% increase in overall clock rate, 10% increase in performance, so it seems you sometimes get more than you put in. Anyway, rumors say Cayman is 6.4 GHz effective, or something to that effect, with no change in core clock. 33% increase in effective memory clock speed, none for core, so call it 17% increase overall clock speed. Part 2. shaders, ROP, TMU, are all tied together when looking at a stat sheet. Take 5850 vs 5870 for example. Everything is in proportion. In any event, we know that 5850 is 725/1000. 20% loss in memory clock, 17% loss in core clock, so lets say 18.5 lower overall clock speed. However, it only loses 15% performance. Now, it has 1440 shaders, and everything that goes along with that, for only an 11% loss in "stuff" but ill just say shaders. Put the 2 together, it happens to avg out to around 15%, but that might just be coincidence. Anyway, moving on. The "6770" is suppose to have 1280 shaders, and land somewhere in between a 5850 and 5870. If they can get 1280 shaders to equal, say 1500 shaders, then they have achieved each shader being 17% more powerful/efficient in a rudimentary way of putting it. If the 6870 is suppose to have 1920 shaders, then it should be something like Cypress with 2250 shaders. A 40% increase. Along with all the corresponding TMU, and so on. So we have a 17% overall clock increase. Since we had a 8% increase with 10% performance, id assume that 17% clock gain would equate to 20% from those numbers. With an increase of 40% for actual power, smash the 2 together, and we arrive at around 30%. Granted, this is no where near perfect. ROP isnt always in step with other changes, core clock does more than memory clock generally, and shader count isnt everything to name a few things wrong. But even so, id say 30% is definitely around what we will see.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/3732/overclocked-our-cust...
On average, it beats the stock 5870 by about 5-15%, so lets just call it 10% for the sake of simple math. 8% increase in overall clock rate, 10% increase in performance, so it seems you sometimes get more than you put in. Anyway, rumors say Cayman is 6.4 GHz effective, or something to that effect, with no change in core clock. 33% increase in effective memory clock speed, none for core, so call it 17% increase overall clock speed. Part 2. shaders, ROP, TMU, are all tied together when looking at a stat sheet. Take 5850 vs 5870 for example. Everything is in proportion. In any event, we know that 5850 is 725/1000. 20% loss in memory clock, 17% loss in core clock, so lets say 18.5 lower overall clock speed. However, it only loses 15% performance. Now, it has 1440 shaders, and everything that goes along with that, for only an 11% loss in "stuff" but ill just say shaders. Put the 2 together, it happens to avg out to around 15%, but that might just be coincidence. Anyway, moving on. The "6770" is suppose to have 1280 shaders, and land somewhere in between a 5850 and 5870. If they can get 1280 shaders to equal, say 1500 shaders, then they have achieved each shader being 17% more powerful/efficient in a rudimentary way of putting it. If the 6870 is suppose to have 1920 shaders, then it should be something like Cypress with 2250 shaders. A 40% increase. Along with all the corresponding TMU, and so on. So we have a 17% overall clock increase. Since we had a 8% increase with 10% performance, id assume that 17% clock gain would equate to 20% from those numbers. With an increase of 40% for actual power, smash the 2 together, and we arrive at around 30%. Granted, this is no where near perfect. ROP isnt always in step with other changes, core clock does more than memory clock generally, and shader count isnt everything to name a few things wrong. But even so, id say 30% is definitely around what we will see.
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ares1214 said:
My guess is 25-35% for normal performance, and pretty much doubling in tess/DX11 performance, or some very impressive improvement. Heres some math for everybody. Cypress 5870 stocks at 4.8 GHz effective. The Gigabyte Super OC is at 5 GHz. An increase of 5%. The core clock is increased 12%. So lets say overall clock speed increase 8.5% Here:http://www.anandtech.com/show/3732/overclocked-our-cust...
On average, it beats the stock 5870 by about 5-15%, so lets just call it 10% for the sake of simple math. 8% increase in overall clock rate, 10% increase in performance, so it seems you sometimes get more than you put in. Anyway, rumors say Cayman is 6.4 GHz effective, or something to that effect, with no change in core clock. 33% increase in effective memory clock speed, none for core, so call it 17% increase overall clock speed. Part 2. shaders, ROP, TMU, are all tied together when looking at a stat sheet. Take 5850 vs 5870 for example. Everything is in proportion. In any event, we know that 5850 is 725/1000. 20% loss in memory clock, 17% loss in core clock, so lets say 18.5 lower overall clock speed. However, it only loses 15% performance. Now, it has 1440 shaders, and everything that goes along with that, for only an 11% loss in "stuff" but ill just say shaders. Put the 2 together, it happens to avg out to around 15%, but that might just be coincidence. Anyway, moving on. The "6770" is suppose to have 1280 shaders, and land somewhere in between a 5850 and 5870. If they can get 1280 shaders to equal, say 1500 shaders, then they have achieved each shader being 17% more powerful/efficient in a rudimentary way of putting it. If the 6870 is suppose to have 1920 shaders, then it should be something like Cypress with 2250 shaders. A 40% increase. Along with all the corresponding TMU, and so on. So we have a 17% overall clock increase. Since we had a 8% increase with 10% performance, id assume that 17% clock gain would equate to 20% from those numbers. With an increase of 40% for actual power, smash the 2 together, and we arrive at around 30%. Granted, this is no where near perfect. ROP isnt always in step with other changes, core clock does more than memory clock generally, and shader count isnt everything to name a few things wrong. But even so, id say 30% is definitely around what we will see.
Your post is nothing more than assumptions and wishful thinking. I want hard facts and no bull ***. I wish that mouse would close these ridiculous threads. If you want to continue this crap then go to Semiaccurate.
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Rumors they are, generated in my head they are not. Ever considered im using what i have to try to predict what might happen, no where in there did i say those are all 100% accurate? All we have right now is rumors, anybody can wait until release to guess performance when its right in front of them. My post was assumptions, but was not wishful thinking. I dont really care what happens with the release, but do you honestly think they would release it with only a 10-20% increase? Which by the way would only tie it, maybe a little above a 480? No! They have time on their side and would postpone the release date. If you want hard facts, wait 2 weeks, this is a SPECULATIVE THREAD, and therefore nobody is necessarily wrong, although 10-20% is extremely low, too low.
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I know you guys hate rumors, and unsubstantiated facts, but this article pretty much spells it out. They address the naming scheme, and confirm that the cards that are going to be announced (not released until November) are primarily designed to compete with the GTX460. They are mid-range cards (according to this pretty thorough looking report):
http://www.nordichardware.com/news/71-graphics/41251-am...
http://www.nordichardware.com/news/71-graphics/41251-am...
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nforce4max said:
Your post is nothing more than assumptions and wishful thinking. I want hard facts and no bull ***. I wish that mouse would close these ridiculous threads. If you want to continue this crap then go to Semiaccurate.
I would do but there has been some complaints about merging or deleting these threads, so I'll leave it to those who have complained to do something.
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all th complaints about rumors and speculation. i think its fun to read abot the benches people are listing s leaked, some are poorly done fakes some look like they could be legit and are within reason of what the 6xxx series might be. if you don't like reading about speculation and researching possible benches when don't read the thread, thanks for leaving it open mm i fo rone am kept entertained by these
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g00fysmiley said:
all th complaints about rumors and speculation. i think its fun to read abot the benches people are listing s leaked, some are poorly done fakes some look like they could be legit and are within reason of what the 6xxx series might be. if you don't like reading about speculation and researching possible benches when don't read the thread, thanks for leaving it open mm i fo rone am kept entertained by these
The complaints I alluded to were about the merging of threads to try and keep everything in one place, apparently that's bad and a "train wreck".
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g00fysmiley said:
ah yea. i didn't see a problem with thta part, oh btw a suggestion if you read it... donno where i'd send it, but this is the graphics and display section but there is no section to specifically discuss monitors... any chance that might happen ever?There already is such a section.
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/forum-3-10.html
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