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Anonymous
January 18, 2005 4:08:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

....I'd like to obtain a DSLR instead of a P&S.
Any good DSLR ones besides Nikon and Canon? These are all I hear and read
about. Seems there are less DSLR choices than film SLR.
How are Pentax, Minolta?

More about : dslr cameras

Anonymous
January 18, 2005 4:08:01 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

developwebsites@aol.comBATSPAM (Developwebsites) writes:

> ...I'd like to obtain a DSLR instead of a P&S.
> Any good DSLR ones besides Nikon and Canon? These are all I hear and read
> about. Seems there are less DSLR choices than film SLR.

The other manufacturers were very slow off the mark. Kodak made their
DCS series of digital SLRs for years, then Nikon brought out the D1,
then Canon the D30, and it wasn't until years after *that* that
anybody else finally brought out a DSLR.

> How are Pentax, Minolta?

And Olympus. I don't know. Check dpreview.com for reviews, and look
for user reports in this group.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, <mailto:D d-b@dd-b.net>, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/&gt;
RKBA: <http://noguns-nomoney.com/&gt; <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/&gt;
Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/&gt; <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/&gt;
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/&gt;
Anonymous
January 18, 2005 4:08:01 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Developwebsites" <developwebsites@aol.comBATSPAM> wrote in message
news:20050117200800.27478.00000086@mb-m17.aol.com...
> ...I'd like to obtain a DSLR instead of a P&S.
> Any good DSLR ones besides Nikon and Canon? These are all I hear and read
> about. Seems there are less DSLR choices than film SLR.
> How are Pentax, Minolta?

Strictly speaking, I do not have a DSLR camera but it is FAR from a point
and shoot camera. The zoom lens goes from 28 to 200. I guess my message is
that there are cameras (such as mine) in between the two strict
classifications you might want to look at. I'm quite satisfied with my Sony
DSC-F828. I used the dpreview website to help me in my selection of
cameras.
Related resources
Anonymous
January 18, 2005 4:08:01 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Developwebsites wrote:
> ...I'd like to obtain a DSLR instead of a P&S.
> Any good DSLR ones besides Nikon and Canon? These are all I hear and
read
> about.

"Good" is such a relative term!

Since Canon and Nikon dominate film SLRs, it's not surprising that they
also dominate D-SLRs.

It also happens to be the case that the two best prosumer SLRs are the
Nikon D70 and the Canon 20D. Since many buyers already have a
collection of lenses and flashes from Nikon or Canon, this gives those
two brands an advantage. For Canon, another big advantage they have is
that they decided early on to design their own low-noise CMOS sensors
for their digital SLRs, and they've gotten very good at it, this is
something that they aren't sharing with other manufacturers.

> Seems there are less DSLR choices than film SLR.
> How are Pentax, Minolta?

The new Konica-Minolta Maxxum 7D digital has gotten fair reviews, but
it is too expensive. The justification for the price is the built-in
anti-shake for the sensor.

On the low end, the Pentax *istD and the Canon 300D are pretty good.
Canon is likely to soon announce a successor to the 300D, which is
closer to the Nikon D70 in price and features, while keeping the 300D
as an entry level model (or replacing it with another entry level
model).

While I like to give the little guys a chance, the reality is that if
you don't already have a collection of Minolta or Pentax lenses, stick
with Canon or Nikon. For $1000, nothing beats the Nikon D70, but you do
get quite a bit more for the $1400 for a Canon 20D.

There are some other second tier D-SLRs as well, such as the Fuji
Finepix S2 Pro (Nikon mount), and the Olympus E300 (does not use
Olympus film SLR lenses), as well the SD10, as a third tier model from
Sigma, which is obsolete since it has only a 3.4 megapixel sensor.

Shop carefully, as their are huge differences in price from various
vendors. Amazon tends to have the best deals.
Anonymous
January 18, 2005 4:08:01 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Developwebsites" <developwebsites@aol.comBATSPAM> wrote in message
news:20050117200800.27478.00000086@mb-m17.aol.com...
> ...I'd like to obtain a DSLR instead of a P&S.
> Any good DSLR ones besides Nikon and Canon? These are all I hear and read
> about. Seems there are less DSLR choices than film SLR.
> How are Pentax, Minolta?

And Olympus: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympuse300/

There are several choices beyond Canon and Nikon and probably more to come.
I own both Canon and Olympus digital cameras and find both to be fine
products ... but my Olympus is not an SLR.
January 18, 2005 4:08:01 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Developwebsites wrote:

> ...I'd like to obtain a DSLR instead of a P&S.
> Any good DSLR ones besides Nikon and Canon?

Read user forums on specific cameras and see what USERS are complaining
about, not what users of -other- cameras are complaining about and see if
these issues will affect you. There is more to ownership that on a P&S,
things like pixel mapping and sensor dust are real issues with some models
for some people etc. Some have good images straight from the camera, some
need post processing to get the best from them etc.

Reading what other people -think- about each model does nothing to help you
decide. What I did was went to a good camera store with a CF card, took
some shots with each perspective model and then went home and looked at /
printed samples for myself. Then when back and handled the models that gave
pleasing results. Some of this is subjective just like the choice of film.
Some people love velvia, some hate it but is it a bad film or a good one?
That's what you have to decide, not someone else.
--

Stacey
January 18, 2005 4:08:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Scharf-DCA wrote:

> and the Olympus E300 (does not use
> Olympus film SLR lenses),

They work in stop down metering mode, olympus is sending me a free adapter
to use them. Just an FYI.
--

Stacey
Anonymous
January 18, 2005 4:11:23 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Developwebsites wrote:
> ...I'd like to obtain a DSLR instead of a P&S.
> Any good DSLR ones besides Nikon and Canon? These are all I hear and read
> about. Seems there are less DSLR choices than film SLR.
> How are Pentax, Minolta?
>
Go to dpreview.com and read the reviews there. Nikon and Canon get most
of the attention, but others may fit the bill as well. Do your homework
and figure out what you're looking for in a camera, then choose what
suits you (not me or not any others in this group) best.

Good luck and happy hunting.
Anonymous
January 18, 2005 7:01:21 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Nikon D70 uses Sony sensor same one as Pentax *ist D and DS. Pentax *ist D
and DS low end????, boy do you have no idea.

Second tier S2Pro, not any more try an S3 Pro.

> It also happens to be the case that the two best prosumer SLRs are the
> Nikon D70 and the Canon 20D. Since many buyers already have a
> collection of lenses and flashes from Nikon or Canon, this gives those
> two brands an advantage. For Canon, another big advantage they have is
> that they decided early on to design their own low-noise CMOS sensors
> for their digital SLRs, and they've gotten very good at it, this is
> something that they aren't sharing with other manufacturers.
>
>> Seems there are less DSLR choices than film SLR.
>> How are Pentax, Minolta?
>
> The new Konica-Minolta Maxxum 7D digital has gotten fair reviews, but
> it is too expensive. The justification for the price is the built-in
> anti-shake for the sensor.
>
> On the low end, the Pentax *istD and the Canon 300D are pretty good.
> Canon is likely to soon announce a successor to the 300D, which is
> closer to the Nikon D70 in price and features, while keeping the 300D
> as an entry level model (or replacing it with another entry level
> model).
>
> While I like to give the little guys a chance, the reality is that if
> you don't already have a collection of Minolta or Pentax lenses, stick
> with Canon or Nikon. For $1000, nothing beats the Nikon D70, but you do
> get quite a bit more for the $1400 for a Canon 20D.
>
> There are some other second tier D-SLRs as well, such as the Fuji
> Finepix S2 Pro (Nikon mount), and the Olympus E300 (does not use
> Olympus film SLR lenses), as well the SD10, as a third tier model from
> Sigma, which is obsolete since it has only a 3.4 megapixel sensor.
>
> Shop carefully, as their are huge differences in price from various
> vendors. Amazon tends to have the best deals.
>
Anonymous
January 18, 2005 12:35:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

I would like to caution you that a dSLR camera is for photographers who
are interested in the process between the shutter button depression and
the final picture (in addition to the ability to utilize an almost
infinite array of focal lengths, apertures, shutter speeds, and special
effects). If you simple want to depress the shutter button and print
final prints, then, perhaps, you might be happier with a high end
digicam.
Anonymous
January 18, 2005 1:36:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

"Developwebsites" <developwebsites@aol.comBATSPAM> wrote:

> ...I'd like to obtain a DSLR instead of a P&S.
> Any good DSLR ones besides Nikon and Canon? These are all I hear and read
> about. Seems there are less DSLR choices than film SLR.
> How are Pentax, Minolta?

IMHO, anything based on the Sony 1.5x sensor (e.g. Nikon, Pentax) is fine,
but Canon sensors are better. But not enough that you'd notice.

Dpreview (www.dpreview.com) has fairly thorough reviews of the dSLRs. Their
ratings are Highly Recommended, Recommended, Above Average, and Average.
Roland Karlsson put together this list (thanks, Roland!).

I'd recommend avoiding the "Recommended" cameras<g>. All have one glitch or
another. No AA (low-pass) filter (a mathematical requirement for correct
(and Moiré-free*) digital imaging), and/or high noise at high ISOs, and/or
limited lens selection. (Canon, Nikon, and Pentax, have near infinite lens
selections, including used and third party lenses.)

*: Although the current Nikon and Canon cameras have inadequate low-pass
filters, leading to occasional Moiré. Sigh.

>>>>>>>>>>>>
Highly Recommended
* Canon EOS 20D (11/3/2004)
* Canon EOS-1D Mark II (6/14/2004)
* Nikon D70 (4/5/2004)
* Nikon D2H (12/19/2003)
* Pentax *ist D (10/28/2003)
* Canon EOS 300D / Digital Rebel (9/4/2003)
* Canon EOS 10D (3/31/2003)
* Canon EOS-1Ds (12/17/2002)
* Fujifilm FinePix S2 Pro (8/2/2002)
* Nikon D100 (7/26/2002)
* Canon EOS D60 (3/24/2002)
* Canon EOS-1D (12/13/2001)
* Nikon D1H (9/19/2001)
* Nikon D1X (6/29/2001)
* Nikon D1 (11/27/2000)
* Canon EOS D30 (10/10/2000)
Recommended
* Olympus E-300 (1/10/2005)
* Sigma SD10 (3/19/2004)
* Olympus E-1 (11/29/2003)
* Kodak DCS 14n (5/20/2003)
* Sigma SD9 (11/26/2002)
* Fujifilm FinePix S1 Pro (8/8/2000)
* Kodak DCS620x (6/14/2000)
Above average
None
Average
None
Not rated yet
* Canon EOS-1Ds Mark II [PREVIEW] (9/21/2004)
* Pentax *ist DS [PREVIEW] (9/13/2004)
* Fujifilm FinePix S3 Pro [PREVIEW] (9/12/2004)
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan
Anonymous
January 19, 2005 1:24:45 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

>MitchAlsup@aol.com wrote:

>If you simple want to depress the shutter button and print
>final prints, then, perhaps, you might be happier with a high end
>digicam.

Can you show me a high end digicam that has an optical zoom of 600mm?
Or that you can use a 100mm macro for a 1:1 magnification? Or a 50mm 1.4 lens
for low light photography?
Rosita
Anonymous
January 19, 2005 2:45:01 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

MitchAlsup@aol.com wrote:
> I would like to caution you that a dSLR camera is for photographers who
> are interested in the process between the shutter button depression and
> the final picture (in addition to the ability to utilize an almost
> infinite array of focal lengths, apertures, shutter speeds, and special
> effects). If you simple want to depress the shutter button and print
> final prints, then, perhaps, you might be happier with a high end
> digicam.

I would submit that this is not true. I *had* a high-end digicam (the KM
Dimage A2: ~$900) and returned it. I bought a Canon 300D with the kit
lens (~$900) to replace it. My wife and I both found that the 300D just
takes better pictures with less hassle. The 300D is much easier to use
than the A2 was, takes far better pictures in low light, and offers the
capability of using additional lenses, such as the $75 50mm f1.8 or the
$400 75-300 F4-5.6 IS USM III.

We shoot the vast majority of our photos with the kit lens, but it's nice
to have the longer zoom of the 75-300 IS (and its IS is dramatically
better than the A2's antishake was), and it's nice to have the wider
aperture of the 50mm f1.8.

I bought the 300D back in July and only recently got the other two lenses,
and only recently have bothered to explore the modes other than the
fully-automatic mode.

I'm guessing that not all dSLRs are as simple as the 300D, and probably
not all high-end digicams are as noisy and difficult to use as the A2, but
for my money, there's no comparison between the two cameras. One gives me
high quality images with nearly zero effort on my part. The other one
gave me fits and the unpleasant reality that 10-15% of my shots were
blurry thanks to being out-of-focus or having motion blur.

--Paul
** Note "removemunged" in email address and remove to reply. **
Anonymous
January 22, 2005 12:33:59 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital (More info?)

Stacey <fotocord@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Scharf-DCA wrote:
>
> > and the Olympus E300 (does not use
> > Olympus film SLR lenses),
>
> They work in stop down metering mode, olympus is sending me a free adapter
> to use them. Just an FYI.

They sent me one too, and I was quite excited to try it out with some of
my favourite OM-lenses, such as the 90/2.0 macro Zuiko. For some reason
I haven't figured out yet, the results have been less than satisfying.
Also the metering seems off (I've been mainly using Aperture priority
automatic). So in the end I laid out the bucks (euros) for the new
50/2.0 digital macro, which turns out to be a killer performer :-)

Ton
!