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Nvidia!...the way it's meant not to be operated

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a b Î Nvidia
a c 236 U Graphics card
October 6, 2010 1:33:55 AM

I would say the company is run by a bunch of drunk chimps but I don't want to insult our primate cousins.

1. how to piss off your own manufactures

Nvidia begins selling own-brand graphics cards at Best Buy
By Jose Vilches, TechSpot.com
Published: October 5, 2010, 11:00 AM EST
In a rather unexpected move it seems Nvidia has struck a deal with Best Buy to begin selling certain GeForce models that are built and supported directly by the graphics firm. For now the initiative apparently covers only GTX 460 and GTS 450 cards, and they are stock clocked with designs based on the reference PCB and cooler. Bryan Del Rizzo from Nvidia issued a short statement confirming the deal, which is exclusive to Best Buy stores, and said more details will be given later.

Although Nvidia-branded cards will reportedly complement GeForce products from AIB partners we can certainly see how this could create an awkward situation with the few manufacturers that remain committed to selling cards from the green team exclusively. Bright Side of News speculates the move could be a response to the loss of several high-profile partners over the last year or so – specifically BFG Technologies.

The scope of the deal is unclear at this point but we are guessing Nvidia
won’t offer its entire lineup under its own brand to avoid eroding its partner ecosystem. Also, it seems unlikely that Nvidia will offer overclocked non-reference boards so that part of the market will likely be reserved for AIB partners as well.
http://www.techspot.com/news/40525-nvidia-begins-sellin...

2. and this is company they want to get in bed with??

Details of Nvidia's replacement for the aging GT250 cards, the Fermi-based GT430 budget-range model, have leaked ahead of its official announcement thanks to some over-eager Best Buy employees.

The GT430 range isn't due for launch until the 10th of this month, but employees at Best Buy stores across the US apparently missed a memo - and have been sticking the cards on the shelf ready for sale.

Zorbas, a member of the EVGA Forums, was able to snap some detailed shots of the boxes, including images of the detailed specifications on the side.

It looks like the first models, including the Galaxy-branded version that Zorbas snapped, will feature 96 stream processors, a 700MHz GPU clock and 1600MHz memory clock running on a 128-bit interface.

Interestingly, manufacturers seem to have decided to cut corners on the RAM. Unlike the GDDR5 used in the higher-end GTX460 models, images from an installed card show it reporting 1GB of DDR3 - a fact borne out by labelling on the box. How much of an effect on performance the slower RAM will have compared to the reduced number of stream processors remains to be seen.

With customers reporting that they were able to buy the cards today, Nvidia, and its manufacturing partners, had better get cracking on an official announcement.

Does the GT430 fill you with budget gaming joy, or is the performance likely to be far too low even at a hefty discount? Share your thoughts over in the forums.
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2010/10/04/nvidia...

More about : nvidia meant operated

a b U Graphics card
October 6, 2010 1:41:27 AM

The GTS 250 and 4850 wont die...and this is why. And for the AIB situation, ive been watching this for a while. What a kick in the pants to companies like EVGA, but is this just a way to make more money? I dont really get it...
a b Î Nvidia
a c 236 U Graphics card
October 6, 2010 1:47:15 AM

i don't know but I assume BB gave them a sweet heart deal. best buy can't move that many video cards even with all the stores they have. I always see PNY, Galaxy, and EVGA in BB stores so its not like they lack Nvidia inventory. they are undersold by Frys & Microcenter in brick and mortar stores. newegg, tigerdirect, amazon all beat their prices online, hands down.
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a b Î Nvidia
a c 202 U Graphics card
October 6, 2010 2:00:28 AM

Didnt ATI switch from making their own to only having partners make them several years ago? It seems like nVidia is doing it in reverse which doesnt seem like a good plan. If they hurt any more of their partners they arent going to have many good ones left.

I wonder how much of a share they get to make off the massive price hike that Best Buy does, hopefully a bunch or its not going to be worth it.
a b U Graphics card
October 6, 2010 2:15:40 AM

hunter315 said:
Didnt ATI switch from making their own to only having partners make them several years ago? It seems like nVidia is doing it in reverse which doesnt seem like a good plan. If they hurt any more of their partners they arent going to have many good ones left.

I wonder how much of a share they get to make off the massive price hike that Best Buy does, hopefully a bunch or its not going to be worth it.


I love bestbuy, but NEVER go there for computer parts. I think ive got an internet adapter or 2 there, but thats only because i needed one quickly. Anybody smart enough to know what a video card is, and buy it seperately from the computer very likely knows better places to buy than bestbuy. Maybe this is just grasping for market share and money? Although i dont see this ending well. EVGA might be selling AMD cards soon at this rate! :lol: 
a b Î Nvidia
a c 173 U Graphics card
October 6, 2010 2:52:12 AM

the gts450 already trades blows with the gts250, anything less would be too slow to game. I think they should cut anything below the 450 as it will be useless, and just stock a gt210 for htpc users that just need hardware video decoding. Maybe 1 more card that is low profile, and leave it at that. Too many low end models is gay.
a b Î Nvidia
a c 236 U Graphics card
October 6, 2010 3:05:16 AM

iam2thecrowe said:
the gts450 already trades blows with the gts250, anything less would be too slow to game. I think they should cut anything below the 450 as it will be useless, and just stock a gt210 for htpc users that just need hardware video decoding. Maybe 1 more card that is low profile, and leave it at that. Too many low end models is gay.


the GT210 sells for $40, the GTS 450 for $140. that is a huge gap, you need filler cards and not everyone is willing to spend $140 for a gaming card, or $100 even.
October 6, 2010 3:52:30 AM

hunter315 said:
Didnt ATI switch from making their own to only having partners make them several years ago? It seems like nVidia is doing it in reverse which doesnt seem like a good plan. If they hurt any more of their partners they arent going to have many good ones left.

I wonder how much of a share they get to make off the massive price hike that Best Buy does, hopefully a bunch or its not going to be worth it.


Frys Electronics sells ATI Radeon brand cards. 5750's, 5770's, and a few lower in the 5xxx series.
a c 172 Î Nvidia
a c 273 U Graphics card
October 6, 2010 7:50:33 AM

We don't have BB over here so I don't see what all the fuss is about, how is this so wrong?
a b Î Nvidia
a c 176 U Graphics card
October 6, 2010 9:34:21 AM

Its nice to see that others haven't forgot history. Just a "few" years ago things were exactly backwards. ATI sold a few of their cards under their own name, and Nvidia sold none. Now things have flipped, it will be interesting to see what happens and why this came about. Its not just due to BFG btw. Nvidia has been having AIB partner problems for awhile now, including losing eVGA as an exclusive. Its been rumored that it costs so much to make the chips/cards that the board partners can't make any money selling them. Perhaps this is Nvidia's attempt keep cards moving.

MM, I think the problem the AIB partners have in all this is the increase competition. Only this time its not coming from each other or AMD, but from Nvidia themselves. If the die is huge and yields are low causing the price per die to be higher then AMDs, and you have the company making the chips selling them as well, there is less market for YOUR companies cards.

What I find more telling is why/when they are doing this. Whats going on in Nvidia's world that has made them make this change? Are the dies to expensive and the chips are piling up? Did BB make them some huge deal that they decided they couldn't pass on it? Are more AIB leaving and Nvidia feels they have no choice? I wonder, I wonder.

As for the GT430, is 96SP enough? 2 of the 8 enabled, it seems a bit weak. I'm not sure it will be able to replace the GTS250, and perhaps not even the 9800GT. I wonder if its meant more for the GT240. (how many does it have? Not a direct relation of course because they are different.)
a c 172 Î Nvidia
a c 273 U Graphics card
October 6, 2010 10:02:54 AM

4745454b said:
MM, I think the problem the AIB partners have in all this is the increase competition. Only this time its not coming from each other or AMD, but from Nvidia themselves. If the die is huge and yields are low causing the price per die to be higher then AMDs, and you have the company making the chips selling them as well, there is less market for YOUR companies cards.

It also means that if Nvidia decide to put a "+" sign on the card to designate a smaller node then an AIB might follow suit rather than putting a "+" on an OC'd version of the larger node cards as XFX were doing with the 9800GTX's.
a b Î Nvidia
a c 130 U Graphics card
October 6, 2010 10:14:19 AM

The stand out thing for me is that they can now squeeze the prices without having to give kickbacks to the partners. Having your own brand in house built cards means you can price them where you want when you want. If they want to drop prices to fend off a launch for a short time they can and i have the feeling that if other partners dont like it well thats just tough.
Problem with that is that if you start driving prices down then the other partners will start looking again at if they want to make Nvidia GPU's at all.
On the flip side I would also guess that they would stick to default cards and keep things very basic so they can give the other partners something of an edge to warrant the extra price, Overcklocks, third party cooling etc.

Mactronix :) 
a b Î Nvidia
a c 176 U Graphics card
October 6, 2010 10:34:36 AM

All very true mac, but is OCs and special cooling enough? I know people around her say to not buy the OC'd cards and just OC it yourself. I might pay a bit for a nice cooler, but if its more then $20 I'm better off just buying the next up faster card. Why buy a 5750 for $130 if I can get the 5770 for the same price? Because the 5750 will have a nicer cooler? I'd rather have the more speed.

"Many" AIB partners already left Nvidia. Another that didn't folded up shop. I think you were very correct when you wrote "the other partners will start looking again at if they want to make Nvidia GPU's at all." Why make expensive cards with little profit if you can switch sides?
a c 172 Î Nvidia
a c 273 U Graphics card
October 6, 2010 10:36:15 AM

4745454b said:
All very true mac, but is OCs and special cooling enough? I know people around her say to not buy the OC'd cards and just OC it yourself. I might pay a bit for a nice cooler, but if its more then $20 I'm better off just buying the next up faster card. Why buy a 5750 for $130 if I can get the 5770 for the same price? Because the 5750 will have a nicer cooler? I'd rather have the more speed.

"Many" AIB partners already left Nvidia. Another that didn't folded up shop. I think you were very correct when you wrote "the other partners will start looking again at if they want to make Nvidia GPU's at all." Why make expensive cards with little profit if you can switch sides?

How many is this exactly?
a b Î Nvidia
a c 176 U Graphics card
October 6, 2010 10:39:57 AM

Hey, don't bust my chops, I put it in quotes.

I want to say four left, and then BFG makes 5. Been awhile since I read that article so I could be wrong. Even more if you count the people that stopped selling only Nvidia cards and started selling both.
a c 172 Î Nvidia
a c 273 U Graphics card
October 6, 2010 10:41:54 AM

4745454b said:
Hey, don't bust my chops, I put it in quotes.

I want to say four left, and then BFG makes 5. Been awhile since I read that article so I could be wrong. Even more if you count the people that stopped selling only Nvidia cards and started selling both.

Four? I know of XFX parting ways and BFG going belly up but who are the others?
a b Î Nvidia
a c 130 U Graphics card
October 6, 2010 11:00:48 AM

4745454b said:
All very true mac, but is OCs and special cooling enough? I know people around her say to not buy the OC'd cards and just OC it yourself. I might pay a bit for a nice cooler, but if its more then $20 I'm better off just buying the next up faster card. Why buy a 5750 for $130 if I can get the 5770 for the same price? Because the 5750 will have a nicer cooler? I'd rather have the more speed.

"Many" AIB partners already left Nvidia. Another that didn't folded up shop. I think you were very correct when you wrote "the other partners will start looking again at if they want to make Nvidia GPU's at all." Why make expensive cards with little profit if you can switch sides?


Bit naughty this and its 100% totally my speculation but as i was typing my last post the thought that maybe the Nvidia brand GPU's would run a custom Bios to stop/limit OCing potential occurred to me :ange:  Any thoughts on that ?
Sure you can flash a Bios but i would wager that most of the mid range market either don't know how or wouldn't dare.

Mactronix :) 
a b Î Nvidia
a c 176 U Graphics card
October 6, 2010 11:11:30 AM

Doing a quick search I found this. Its from the rumor mill stage so the numbers might be off.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/200810071234...

They claim only two companies leaving, Club3D and Foxconn/leadtek. I seem to remember it was more then just them but perhaps not. Not the end of the world because they didn't account for much. XFX selling ATI cards was probably a worse black eye. If anyone can find the article that says for sure who left I'd like to see it. I remember reading on HardOCP but I can't find it right now.
a b Î Nvidia
a c 176 U Graphics card
October 6, 2010 11:14:56 AM

Looking for the above article Mac I ran across some that said NVidia was doing this to get money. With their chipset business all but gone, they want/need more $$$. The idea is to sell the cards they make, cutting out their AIB. They also said its not just BB, but Newegg is in on this as well.
a c 172 Î Nvidia
a c 273 U Graphics card
October 6, 2010 11:16:50 AM

4745454b said:
Doing a quick search I found this. Its from the rumor mill stage so the numbers might be off.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/200810071234...

They claim only two companies leaving, Club3D and Foxconn/leadtek. I seem to remember it was more then just them but perhaps not. Not the end of the world because they didn't account for much. XFX selling ATI cards was probably a worse black eye. If anyone can find the article that says for sure who left I'd like to see it. I remember reading on HardOCP but I can't find it right now.

That article is from 2008 and both Club3d and Leadtek have GTX460's out, so I'm calling BS on your "many".

http://www.leadtek.com/eng/3d_graphic/overview.asp?lineid=1&pronameid=568

http://www.tweaktown.com/pressrelease/3750/club3d_rolls_out_its_geforce_gtx_460_graphics_cards/index.html
a b Î Nvidia
a c 130 U Graphics card
October 6, 2010 11:19:24 AM

4745454b said:
Looking for the above article Mac I ran across some that said NVidia was doing this to get money. With their chipset business all but gone, they want/need more $$$. The idea is to sell the cards they make, cutting out their AIB. They also said its not just BB, but Newegg is in on this as well.


I read pretty much the same at Semiacurate earlier but will take it with a pinch of salt, much of what they said makes sense but only if you agree with them on the basic premis that Nvidia isnt making money anywhere else. I dont know one way or another but the site has been in and out with its info generally speaking.

Mactronix :) 
a b Î Nvidia
a c 176 U Graphics card
October 6, 2010 12:04:07 PM

How about any of these guys?

http://www.guru3d.com/news/nvidias-cut-away-partners-ar...

Quote:
We now know pretty much for sure that the following board partners will be axed: Albatron, Biostar, Club3D, ECS and Foxconn.


The articles would have to come from 2008/2009 as thats when this happened. It wouldn't surprise me one or more came back over time.

As for where Nvidia gets $$$ from I would think it would mostly come from the GPU business?
a c 172 Î Nvidia
a c 273 U Graphics card
October 6, 2010 12:15:27 PM

4745454b said:
How about any of these guys?

http://www.guru3d.com/news/nvidias-cut-away-partners-ar...

Quote:
We now know pretty much for sure that the following board partners will be axed: Albatron, Biostar, Club3D, ECS and Foxconn.


The articles would have to come from 2008/2009 as thats when this happened. It wouldn't surprise me one or more came back over time.

As for where Nvidia gets $$$ from I would think it would mostly come from the GPU business?

You really need to do more checking than I need to do believing in what you post as four out of those five have Fermi class cards out. And one makes motherboards.

Edit for embellishment.
a b U Graphics card
October 6, 2010 12:38:19 PM

Mousemonkey said:
You really need to do more checking than I need to do believing in what you post as four out of those five have Fermi class cards out. And one makes motherboards.

Edit for embellishment.

Never heard of Albatron or Club3d, they sell their cards seperately?
a c 172 Î Nvidia
a c 273 U Graphics card
October 6, 2010 12:42:46 PM

dalta centauri said:
Never heard of Albatron or Club3d, they sell their cards seperately?

Are you not in Europe?
a b U Graphics card
October 6, 2010 2:19:51 PM

Never really seen albatron, but ive seen a lot of Club3d when helping people in england. If EVGA sold AMD boards and AMD video cards, it would give actually a pretty nice edge to them. EVGA has a massive and die hard fanbase, and they really do make great products. For video cards, it would be nice to see them in with Sapphire, XFX, and the lot, for competitions sake. Then for motherboards, EVGA generally has the absolute best motherboard you can get. X58 Classified, Classified 170, Classified XL, SR-2. Having the best motherboards, or even just having a good company making them might be a good thing, or a good sign for AMD. But who knows. I just hope NV doesnt abandon ship to intel, or no where, and leave us to deal with another monopoly. Even Intel might bring something into the market as far as discreet, but it would likely take a while to get to the high end or competitive.
a b U Graphics card
October 6, 2010 2:54:51 PM

Mousemonkey said:
Are you not in Europe?

Nope, I just recently heard of club3d through a thread for a prebuilt, so that's why I was asking.
Seriously never heard of Albatron though.
a c 172 Î Nvidia
a c 273 U Graphics card
October 6, 2010 3:03:58 PM

Club3D have been around here in the UK for years, Albatron not so much but they seem to be doing quite well in Taiwan.
a b Î Nvidia
a c 176 U Graphics card
October 6, 2010 4:02:36 PM

This is perhaps the best link I can find so far. It comes from toms so perhaps you'll believe them? Its more rehash of the rumors however, I can't find a single article that clearly states who exactly got cut. I know I read one on Hard, but I can't find it.

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/Nvidia-Foxconn-XFX-Gainwa...

I see as I read it that the claims are over rated. Nvidia didn't "lose" XFX or eVGA, both companies decided to sell ATI cards as well. I do believe that Nvidia lost some AIB partners around the time this article was written. Just because you can find them selling card now doesn't mean they didn't stop for X time. The way your making it sound this rumor went around and nobody bothered to ever correct it saying nobody left Nvidia.

BTW, seeing as your across the pond did you hear about XFX?
a c 172 Î Nvidia
a c 273 U Graphics card
October 6, 2010 4:20:53 PM

4745454b said:
This is perhaps the best link I can find so far. It comes from toms so perhaps you'll believe them? Its more rehash of the rumors however, I can't find a single article that clearly states who exactly got cut. I know I read one on Hard, but I can't find it.

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/Nvidia-Foxconn-XFX-Gainwa...

I see as I read it that the claims are over rated. Nvidia didn't "lose" XFX or eVGA, both companies decided to sell ATI cards as well. I do believe that Nvidia lost some AIB partners around the time this article was written. Just because you can find them selling card now doesn't mean they didn't stop for X time. The way your making it sound this rumor went around and nobody bothered to ever correct it saying nobody left Nvidia.

BTW, seeing as your across the pond did you hear about XFX?

Yes, we have heard about XFX and we can also read dates which is why I'm wondering why the three articles that you have linked to are all from 2008? :heink:  Give me something from 2010 that says someone other than XFX have parted ways and BFG have gone belly up.
a b U Graphics card
October 6, 2010 5:03:20 PM

Mousemonkey said:
Yes, we have heard about XFX and we can also read dates which is why I'm wondering why the three articles that you have linked to are all from 2008? :heink:  Give me something from 2010 that says someone other than XFX have parted ways and BFG have gone belly up.

I could make my own forum or make a page on Wikipedia saying Nvidia left Nvidia with producing Nvidia cards.
Would that make you believe?
a c 172 Î Nvidia
a c 273 U Graphics card
October 6, 2010 5:10:24 PM

dalta centauri said:
I could make my own forum or make a page on Wikipedia saying Nvidia left Nvidia with producing Nvidia cards.
Would that make you believe?

No, so try coming up with some recent facts.
a b U Graphics card
October 6, 2010 5:10:40 PM

dalta centauri said:
I could make my own forum or make a page on Wikipedia saying Nvidia left Nvidia with producing Nvidia cards.
Would that make you believe?


No? If you cant give the info, then i guess it shouldnt be believed. I just hope NV doesnt do a 3DFX.
a c 172 Î Nvidia
a c 273 U Graphics card
October 6, 2010 5:13:28 PM

ares1214 said:
No? If you cant give the info, then i guess it shouldnt be believed. I just hope NV doesnt do a 3DFX.

Who would have the cash to buy them and would JHH allow that?
a b U Graphics card
October 6, 2010 5:16:16 PM

Mousemonkey said:
Who would have the cash to buy them and would JHH allow that?


Cash, well i can just throw names out there, but i understand what you mean with JHH. Like i said, i hope they dont go that way
a c 172 Î Nvidia
a c 273 U Graphics card
October 6, 2010 5:19:26 PM

ares1214 said:
Cash, well i can just throw names out there, but i understand what you mean with JHH. Like i said, i hope they dont go that way

Sometimes money isn't everything! :lol: 
a b Î Nvidia
a c 176 U Graphics card
October 7, 2010 5:56:08 AM

I had a feeling of that when you mentioned the article from 2008. Thats when I'm talking about, not now. Back then when AMD (ATI) was coming back they had way to many AIB partners. Several left (smaller ones) and others broke their exclusive agreement with Nvidia and started selling AMD cards. XFX did, and now look where it gets them with Nvidia. For those who haven't heard they are no longer a partner in Europe. Nvidia's revenge I guess for what they did years ago. My original comment has nothing to do with now, but back when all this started.

Again, if anyone has a link to an article that clearly states who left, I'd like to see it. Everything on the net is from the rumor stage and doesn't list who left.
a b Î Nvidia
a c 130 U Graphics card
October 7, 2010 4:25:53 PM

Who knows ? I dont really care to be honest. Could just be rumours and people remembering and adding up the ones that have left over time ?

Mactronix :) 
a c 172 Î Nvidia
a c 273 U Graphics card
October 7, 2010 4:29:09 PM

mactronix said:
Who knows ? I dont really care to be honest. Could just be rumours and people remembering and adding up the ones that have left over time ?

Mactronix :) 

Indeed, so long as I can replace my existing cards with another pair sometime in the future I'm not that fussed who makes them.
a b Î Nvidia
a c 130 U Graphics card
October 7, 2010 4:35:30 PM

Im sorry you probably had it there for ages MM but is that latin i see before me ? Im a bit rusty but i think people must make your day every day ?

Mactronix :) 
a c 172 Î Nvidia
a c 273 U Graphics card
October 7, 2010 4:39:21 PM

mactronix said:
Im sorry you probably had it there for ages MM but is that latin i see before me ? Im a bit rusty but i think people must make your day every day ?

Mactronix :) 

It is Latin sir and no, I don't let people or life in general get to me as our time here is far too short for that.
a b Î Nvidia
a c 130 U Graphics card
October 7, 2010 4:43:07 PM

Mousemonkey said:
It is Latin sir and no, I don't let people or life in general get to me as our time here is far too short for that.


I feel the sentiment but find it awfully difficult sometimes :)  Anyway, we now return you to your regular viewing.

Mactronix :) 
a b U Graphics card
October 7, 2010 6:51:39 PM

Mousemonkey said:
It is Latin sir and no, I don't let people or life in general get to me as our time here is far too short for that.

I find 50-150 years to be plentiful.
a b U Graphics card
October 7, 2010 6:58:15 PM

dalta centauri said:
I find 50-150 years to be plentiful.


You think life lasts 150 years? :lol:  I think the average for white males might be like 77. Considering the earth has been around for what most scientists say 4.5 Billion years, then the average lifetime is about 1/60,000,000th of the earths liftime, id say we have it pretty short.
!