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HD 5770 or GTS 450 ?

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October 6, 2010 6:05:35 PM

The thread is the question ^^

More about : 5770 gts 450

October 6, 2010 6:11:49 PM

Thanks. Just to double check incase I made a mistake, its the 5770 right?
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a b U Graphics card
October 6, 2010 6:15:48 PM

Id go with the 5770, but it depends. With 5770's for the same price, or 10$ being found pretty easily, and the GTS 450 having so so performance (loses to the 5750 a decent bit at higher resolutions and higher AA), id say the 5770 is better buy. Unless you either have intrest in CUDA, or dont like AMD drivers. They are pretty hard cards to decide between. With the GTS 450, you have the promise of driver updates increasing performance, with the 5770, you know you are going to get better performance now. What res are you at?
a c 274 U Graphics card
October 6, 2010 6:15:50 PM

SupahDonkeh said:
Thanks. Just to double check incase I made a mistake, its the 5770 right?

It's your question, you tell me! :lol: 
a b U Graphics card
October 6, 2010 6:19:04 PM

Mousemonkey said:
It's your question, you tell me! :lol: 


Wow...2 seconds after, thats new... :lol:  Toms review might be more helpful if your at the drawing conclusions on your own point:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gts-450-gf1...

Quote:
Maybe it’s the fact that we’re all jacked up on Mountain Dew. Maybe it’s the fact that we’re used to talking about more enthusiast-class graphics products. Or maybe it’s the fact that last generation’s cards still make for good gaming solutions. Whatever the reason, it’s genuinely difficult to get excited about something we saw from AMD 11 freaking months ago, priced to match.

But I’m not going to limit my nerd rage to the GeForce GTS 450. Even AMD’s Radeon HD 5750 is a tough sell if you’re already rocking an older G92-based card or a Radeon HD 4850. You can find previous-generation products from both AMD and Nvidia selling brand new for $90 bucks or so. If you’re a cash-strapped gamer looking for legit value, I don’t see any problem buying up those boards on the cheap until they’re no longer available.


Thats basically their conclusion. Basically, the GTS 250 and 4850 just wont die, and they are mad it coming almost a year late and not really improving on much for the price.
a c 274 U Graphics card
October 6, 2010 6:20:04 PM

ares1214 said:
Id go with the 5770, but it depends. With 5770's for the same price, or 10$ being found pretty easily, and the GTS 450 having so so performance (loses to the 5750 a decent bit at higher resolutions and higher AA), id say the 5770 is better buy. Unless you either have intrest in CUDA, or dont like AMD drivers. They are pretty hard cards to decide between. With the GTS 450, you have the promise of driver updates increasing performance, with the 5770, you know you are going to get better performance now. What res are you at?

Does it? When? If you read the Xbit review it seems the 5770 is the lessor card.
a b U Graphics card
October 6, 2010 6:28:29 PM

Mousemonkey said:
Does it? When? If you read the Xbit review it seems the 5770 is the lessor card.





Notice a difference? Goes from beating 5750 at low res, and doing good with no AA, to losing at HD and AA. Its a pattern i noticed the whole time. Going in order, Crysis it just down right loses, same with AVP, DiRT 2:



Illustrates it pretty well as it does good with no AA, but then loses when its turned on, BFBC2 it loses at higher resolutions:




And then JC2 it beats the 5750 fair and square. But overall, im not really impressed with it at higher res. If your going no AA, or below 1600x900, then go for it, but taking in the fact it has lower performance than the 5770, and even 5750 at times, and costs the same, or 10$ less, its a hard sell for me. Maybe with price drops and driver updates.
a c 274 U Graphics card
October 6, 2010 6:33:30 PM

I'll just chuck in one bench from the Xbit review that contradicts because they are using FSAA 4x + AF 16x.
a c 274 U Graphics card
October 6, 2010 6:45:50 PM

ares1214 said:
Im just saying, ill take Tom's word over that. Im sure we could find as many charts as we wanted, but overall, 5770 is the better buy IMO. Better yet, spend 20-30$ more for a GTX 460:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

Xbit is a site trusted by many just because they use higher levels of details than THG used and so the results don't go in your favour I can understand why you don't want accept their results. You'll really hate what they said in their summing up as well.

Quote:
Summing up the results of our tests, we can say we are impressed with the performance of the GeForce GTS 450 considering that it comes from the below-$140 product category. Priced comparably to the Radeon HD 5750, the new card is quite competitive to the more advanced Radeon HD 5770 and, occasionally, even to the Radeon HD 5830.
a b U Graphics card
October 6, 2010 7:56:36 PM

Id take anandtech over all of them, even though they sometime give higher leads to NV. Ive just noticed it occasionally that say the xxx from NV beats the yyy from AMD more at Anandtech than Toms. Maybe its just me, or maybe its just how it is. Also, im assuming customer is US? So euro prices dont really matter here. They matter, just no here. :lol:  The fact Xbit put it even higher than the 5830 is BS. 5770, that i can see it being beat occasionally, but it shouldnt be considered faster than a 5830, not when it loses to the 5750 sometimes.
a b U Graphics card
October 6, 2010 8:06:27 PM

Maybe its because ati hasn't come out with a new card or product in 5 1/2 months and that was a 5550. :) 
a c 274 U Graphics card
October 6, 2010 8:08:53 PM

ares1214 said:
Id take anandtech over all of them, even though they sometime give higher leads to NV. Ive just noticed it occasionally that say the xxx from NV beats the yyy from AMD more at Anandtech than Toms. Maybe its just me, or maybe its just how it is. Also, im assuming customer is US? So euro prices dont really matter here. They matter, just no here. :lol:  The fact Xbit put it even higher than the 5830 is BS. 5770, that i can see it being beat occasionally, but it shouldnt be considered faster than a 5830, not when it loses to the 5750 sometimes.

What I find interesting is that both THG and Anand only run 4x AA and no AF which is a bit odd considering that so much was being made about how DX10 and 11 would make the using of higher levels of AA and AF easier on the hardware and yet you seem to prefer the tests where low levels are used on these new spangly cards.
a b U Graphics card
October 6, 2010 8:54:42 PM

notty22 said:
Maybe its because ati hasn't come out with a new card or product in 5 1/2 months and that was a 5550. :) 


I didnt say high, i said higher. If Toms give the 480 a 15% lead, Anandtech gave it a 20%. Maybe they are using better drivers, i just always see bigger differences when NV does win.
October 8, 2010 11:47:23 AM

HD 5770 is much better . go for it .
a b U Graphics card
October 8, 2010 1:44:07 PM

I say go for the 5770 myself, wins a bit more then the 450 when you check out the charts and is a decent card overall.
a c 130 U Graphics card
October 8, 2010 8:03:39 PM

Everything i have read says the 450 is the better card and its cheaper than a 5770 as well.
I refused to buy a 5770 on price alone as it was over priced at launch for what it is.
A decent 5770, by which i mean something like the MSI hawk will in the UK cost you about £135. The ASUS top 450 which is a better card than the MSI Hawk will cost about £117.
However the issue that causes the most problems when looking at the top performing 450/5770 cards is that the 460 768mb card can be had for less than £10 more.
The stock cards are obviously that bit cheaper with the 450 around £95 while the 5770 is more like £110 again price would sway me to the 450.
Obviously thats just based on a UK price point but thats where i am so thats what i can use.

Mactronix :) 
a b U Graphics card
October 8, 2010 8:08:49 PM

mactronix said:
Everything i have read says the 450 is the better card and its cheaper than a 5770 as well.
I refused to buy a 5770 on price alone as it was over priced at launch for what it is.
A decent 5770, by which i mean something like the MSI hawk will in the UK cost you about £135. The ASUS top 450 which is a better card than the MSI Hawk will cost about £117.
However the issue that causes the most problems when looking at the top performing 450/5770 cards is that the 460 768mb card can be had for less than £10 more.
The stock cards are obviously that bit cheaper with the 450 around £95 while the 5770 is more like £110 again price would sway me to the 450.
Obviously thats just based on a UK price point but thats where i am so thats what i can use.

Mactronix :) 


I think Nvidia is more popular, and also priced better in the UK and europe. Here in the US, the 5770 and 450 either cost the same including MIR, or the 5770 only costs 10$ more. The 5770 outperforms the 450 no matter what continent your on though.
a c 130 U Graphics card
October 8, 2010 8:58:56 PM

To be honest there isnt a lot in it performance wise but in the reviews I have read the 450 comes out on top by the numbers. It isnt anything you would actually notice in real life though so its down to price/package/warranty as far as i am concerned.
The games i play are favoured by the 450 and i have never run an Nvidia card before so im waiting for the 6 series launch to see what happens price wise before i upgrade the second house PC.
Im leaning towards a 450 to be honest but the 460 would come into it if the planned price cuts get it down to a price where its just silly not to. that way i can experiment with running an Nvidia card on a system that dosent matter that much if i dont like it. Bit of an experiment if you will.

Mactronix :) 
October 8, 2010 10:05:25 PM

OH no ... who says that GTS 250 is better ? 5770 has much better reasons to get bought .
a b U Graphics card
October 8, 2010 10:37:58 PM

mactronix said:
To be honest there isnt a lot in it performance wise but in the reviews I have read the 450 comes out on top by the numbers. It isnt anything you would actually notice in real life though so its down to price/package/warranty as far as i am concerned.
The games i play are favoured by the 450 and i have never run an Nvidia card before so im waiting for the 6 series launch to see what happens price wise before i upgrade the second house PC.
Im leaning towards a 450 to be honest but the 460 would come into it if the planned price cuts get it down to a price where its just silly not to. that way i can experiment with running an Nvidia card on a system that dosent matter that much if i dont like it. Bit of an experiment if you will.

Mactronix :) 


In most of the toms, anandtech, and i think hc tests, the GTS 450 came out with 5750 performance, occasionally tying the 5770. Not overcoming it. I also saw an interesting article on its scaling:

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/09/14/nvidia_geforc...

Hard generally doesnt sway one side or the other, this one seems a bit judgemental of NV, but still, results are results.
a c 274 U Graphics card
October 9, 2010 5:59:56 AM

8Vidia said:
OH no ... who says that GTS 250 is better ? 5770 has much better reasons to get bought .

No ones mentioned the GTS250 other than you.
October 9, 2010 7:54:21 AM

ok i was mean GTS 450 , i was in hurry ( hadnt time to fix it back in quick edit but i knew it was GTS 450 )
a c 274 U Graphics card
October 9, 2010 7:58:40 AM

8Vidia said:
ok i was mean GTS 450 , i was in hurry ( hadnt time to fix it back in quick edit but i knew it was GTS 450 )

Ok. You have a PM as well, please read it.
October 9, 2010 8:16:03 AM

YOU mean Privet Massage ? ok i gonna read it ASAP . is it from you ?
a c 130 U Graphics card
October 9, 2010 12:19:41 PM

ares1214 said:
In most of the toms, anandtech, and i think hc tests, the GTS 450 came out with 5750 performance, occasionally tying the 5770. Not overcoming it. I also saw an interesting article on its scaling:

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/09/14/nvidia_geforc...

Hard generally doesnt sway one side or the other, this one seems a bit judgemental of NV, but still, results are results.



They are using a stock clocked card to test with, of course its looking bad. Pricing on Newegg show that the cheapest 5770 is $139 for a standard 5770. You can get a Asus Top 450 for that.
Anyway for $30 more you can get a 768mb 460 and unless your system wont power it thats the one to go for as far as im concerned.
In the US i guess the pricepoint makes it a toss a coin and pick one scenario while pricing here in the UK makes it a bit harder to ignore the 450.

Mactronix :) 
a b U Graphics card
October 9, 2010 1:05:33 PM

mactronix said:
They are using a stock clocked card to test with, of course its looking bad. Pricing on Newegg show that the cheapest 5770 is $139 for a standard 5770. You can get a Asus Top 450 for that.
Anyway for $30 more you can get a 768mb 460 and unless your system wont power it thats the one to go for as far as im concerned.
In the US i guess the pricepoint makes it a toss a coin and pick one scenario while pricing here in the UK makes it a bit harder to ignore the 450.

Mactronix :) 


Yeah, they are very close, as are the 5850 and GTX 460 now ever since prices dropped on 5850's. But thats what i said before, 768mb 460 is probably best deal out there. This one if you do MIR:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

This one if not:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

However, if it was between the 5770 and GTS 450 only, until possible improvements in AA and higher resolution through driver updates, 5770 is the better buy. Unless you can get the 450 for cheaper than it is now via some rebate.
a c 274 U Graphics card
October 9, 2010 1:10:36 PM

ares1214 said:
Yeah, they are very close, as are the 5850 and GTX 460 now ever since prices dropped on 5850's. But thats what i said before, 768mb 460 is probably best deal out there. This one if you do MIR:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

This one if not:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

However, if it was between the 5770 and GTS 450 only, until possible improvements in AA and higher resolution through driver updates, 5770 is the better buy. Unless you can get the 450 for cheaper than it is now via some rebate.

So why did you tout the benchmarks done at 10 x 12 with x4 AA and dispute the one I used which was done at 16 x 10 and higher with FSAA x4 + x16 AF?
a b U Graphics card
October 9, 2010 1:21:43 PM

Mousemonkey said:
So why did you tout the benchmarks done at 10 x 12 with x4 AA and dispute the one I used which was done at 16 x 10 and higher with FSAA x4 + x16 AF?


I didnt, i showed how it did better at 12x10, and they got worse comparitively as the resolution was cranked up. It was as a comparison, not to show performance. Same with AA, showed how it did good with no AA, and less so with AA. And your site goes against all the others. HWC seems to back it up too:




See how it falls behind as the resolution gets cranked up? For a few others, it just stays in between the 5750 and 5770, wins Far Cry, but come one, thats about as Nvidia as it gets, Just Cause:




Once again falls behind at higher resolution. Metro 2033 it just lands like usual in between the 5750 and 5770. Even unigine it loses at higher res. Even in their conclusion, the first thing they say is:
Quote:
NVIDIA’s GTS 450 did impress us but after the cuts ATI made to their HD 5770, purchasing one at $130 may make very little sense from a performance standpoint.



a c 274 U Graphics card
October 9, 2010 1:47:02 PM

Xbit are normally pretty good with their reviews but even so if I get selective I can post benchies that show the 450 in a better light.










See how easy it is to only post the results (from your site) that only show it in a good light whilst ignoring the ones where it doesn't shine so brightly. ;) 
a c 130 U Graphics card
October 9, 2010 1:51:27 PM

I could post pages of images that put the 450 ahead as well so its pointless trying to prove which is best. Take a view using the price you can get each for and how it performs at the res and in the games you use.
I feel the 450 has more to offer overall to me personally while others may see it as a no brainer to get a 5770.

Mactronix :) 
a c 274 U Graphics card
October 9, 2010 2:05:53 PM

mactronix said:
I could post pages of images that put the 450 ahead as well so its pointless trying to prove which is best. Take a view using the price you can get each for and how it performs at the res and in the games you use.
I feel the 450 has more to offer overall to me personally while others may see it as a no brainer to get a 5770.

Mactronix :) 

Exactly mate, from all the reviews I've read it seems that the two cards are so close in comparisons that it's just down to which one the individual prefers, for me it would be the GTS450 which last time I checked was slightly cheaper than the HD5770 and as I prefer Nvidia cards anyway that's a win win but for those who wouldn't cross the road to pee on an Nvidia card if it was on fire the 5770 is the one and only. Either way both are way better than an 8400GS regardless of what driver version they are running on.
October 9, 2010 2:22:27 PM

GTX 460 768 MB. The performance jump is too much for the extra 25$. I still regret why I took the 9800GT instead of GTS250.
a b U Graphics card
October 9, 2010 2:24:23 PM

Mousemonkey said:
Xbit are normally pretty good with their reviews but even so if I get selective I can post benchies that show the 450 in a better light.

http://images.hardwarecanucks.com/image//skymtl/GPU/PNY-GTS450/PNY-GTS450-33.jpg

http://images.hardwarecanucks.com/image//skymtl/GPU/PNY-GTS450/PNY-GTS450-51.jpg

http://images.hardwarecanucks.com/image//skymtl/GPU/PNY-GTS450/PNY-GTS450-53.jpg

http://images.hardwarecanucks.com/image//skymtl/GPU/PNY-GTS450/PNY-GTS450-75.jpg

http://images.hardwarecanucks.com/image//skymtl/GPU/PNY-GTS450/PNY-GTS450-69.jpg
See how easy it is to only post the results (from your site) that only show it in a good light whilst ignoring the ones where it doesn't shine so brightly. ;) 


Like i said, i mentioned the one it won it, Starcraft is DX9, Far Cry is Nvidia, and so on. It loses a lot more than it wins.
a c 274 U Graphics card
October 9, 2010 2:25:17 PM

chinuhark said:
GTX 460 768 MB.

What's that got to do with the OP's question? :heink:  Stay on topic please.
a c 274 U Graphics card
October 9, 2010 2:27:22 PM

ares1214 said:
Like i said, i mentioned the one it won it, Starcraft is DX9, Far Cry is Nvidia, and so on. It loses a lot more than it wins.

And whilst your only interested in the ones it loses I'm only interested in the ones that it wins. :lol: 
October 9, 2010 2:30:21 PM

Mousemonkey said:
What's that got to do with the OP's question? :heink:  Stay on topic please.

The performance jump is too much for the extra 25$. I still regret why I took the 9800GT instead of GTS250.
a c 274 U Graphics card
October 9, 2010 2:34:03 PM

chinuhark said:
The performance jump is too much for the extra 25$. I still regret why I took the 9800GT instead of GTS250.

I'm still not sure what that has to do with the OP's question, yes the GTX460 is a better card than either the 450 or 5770 but there may be very good reasons why it's not up for consideration.
October 9, 2010 2:38:14 PM

Mousemonkey said:
I'm still not sure what that has to do with the OP's question, yes the GTX460 is a better card than either the 450 or 5770 but there may be very good reasons why it's not up for consideration.

I just dont want him to make the same mistake I made 2 years ago. If its not up for 'consideration', I want him to 'consider' it...!
a b U Graphics card
October 9, 2010 3:34:28 PM

Mousemonkey said:
And whilst your only interested in the ones it loses I'm only interested in the ones that it wins. :lol: 


No, i mentioned the ones it won in to be fair, although i was trying to show a trend, a trend of it doing worse in high res, high AA games. Even more so just to back Toms, and AT up. Its 3v1. The fact Xbit said 5830 performance is BS considering the 5750 is nipping on its heels, and it is slower overall than the 5770. It beat it in a synthetic tess benchmark, to be expected with fermi, a 100% nvidia game, Farcry, and Starcraft, which im not sure, maybe DX9. Everything else it lost. One of those it only won by 1 FPS anyway...At sub HD, or even sub 1680x1050 systems, its a good way to go, but at HD, 5770, and its a toss up in 16x10.
a b U Graphics card
October 9, 2010 3:56:25 PM

ares1214 said:
No, i mentioned the ones it won in to be fair, although i was trying to show a trend, a trend of it doing worse in high res, high AA games. Even more so just to back Toms, and AT up. Its 3v1. The fact Xbit said 5830 performance is BS considering the 5750 is nipping on its heels, and it is slower overall than the 5770. It beat it in a synthetic tess benchmark, to be expected with fermi, a 100% nvidia game, Farcry, and Starcraft, which im not sure, maybe DX9. Everything else it lost. One of those it only won by 1 FPS anyway...At sub HD, or even sub 1680x1050 systems, its a good way to go, but at HD, 5770, and its a toss up in 16x10.

Actually your biased. Whats a Nvidia game ? Does amd have any amd games ?
If not then its a moot point. We all play the same games. And if a person is not playing in 1920x1080 then they are not playing in that resolution, and trends don't matter. Are you supposed to feel better that in a resolution you don't play in the card you bought gets 19fps vs 16 ? Those are straw man arguments, (we won't use the term fanboy)
edit:
It comes down to price. If there is a 5770 for 120 dollars (without rebate) then it might be a toss up. But I would definitely buy Nvidia with a price tie. Because they support their hardware through drivers better.
a b U Graphics card
October 9, 2010 4:02:27 PM

notty22 said:
Actually your biased. Whats a Nvidia game ? Does amd have any amd games ?
If not then its a moot point. We all play the same games. And if a person is not playing in 1920x1080 then they are not playing in that resolution, and trends don't matter. Are you supposed to feel better that in a resolution you don't play in the card you bought gets 19fps vs 16 ? Those are straw man arguments, (we won't use the term fanboy)


Has the OP even said res? And your calling me biased... :sarcastic:  Far Cry 2 is a game that has always favored Nvidia heavily. It always has. DiRT 2 i believe was optimised for AMD, however since fermi is better in DX11, it doesnt really show as much. Since you dont know the res of the OP, unless i missed it, your point is moot. And the "oh, its only a little better argument", now thats a straw argument.
a b U Graphics card
October 9, 2010 10:26:24 PM

That xbit review is a joke. A 450 isn't close to a 5830.











Power consumption (this says a lot)




The 5770 is the faster card, beats the Asus TOP overclocked at stock so obviously it will beat it if you overclock it too.

Even if you can get the 450 for the same price as a 5770, you'll lose money in the long run because of its much higher power consumption.
a c 274 U Graphics card
October 9, 2010 10:44:53 PM

eyefinity said:
That xbit review is a joke. A 450 isn't close to a 5830.

http://img.hexus.net/v2/graphics_cards/nvidia/Fermi/GTS421/A3.png

http://img.hexus.net/v2/graphics_cards/nvidia/Fermi/GTS421/C3.png

http://img.hexus.net/v2/graphics_cards/nvidia/Fermi/GTS421/Cr3.png

http://img.hexus.net/v2/graphics_cards/nvidia/Fermi/GTS421/D3.png

http://img.hexus.net/v2/graphics_cards/nvidia/Fermi/GTS421/M3.png

Power consumption (this says a lot)

http://img.hexus.net/v2/graphics_cards/nvidia/Fermi/GTS421/P2.png


The 5770 is the faster card, beats the Asus TOP overclocked at stock so obviously it will beat it if you overclock it too.

Even if you can get the 450 for the same price as a 5770, you'll lose money in the long run because of its much higher power consumption.

Considering your avatar no benchmarks you use have any merit. :kaola: 
a c 274 U Graphics card
October 9, 2010 10:49:40 PM

Oh look here's one where a 450 is better than the 5770!
:pfff: 
a b U Graphics card
October 9, 2010 10:50:01 PM

Mousemonkey said:
Considering your avatar no benchmarks you use have any merit. :kaola: 


I don't see why having an ATI avatar makes the truth any less truthful tbh. :D 
a b U Graphics card
October 9, 2010 10:50:37 PM

Mousemonkey said:
Oh look here's one where a 450 is better than the 5770!
http://img.hexus.net/v2/graphics_cards/nvidia/Fermi/GTS421/KFA/C2.png :pfff: 


There are 2 where the 450 "wins". If you weren't in such a rush to poo-poo my post you'd have noticed that. :D 

The problem is the 450 has a big, big overclock and is at least 25% worse on power draw. Why not buy a 5770 and overclock it? It's not bad the 450...it gets close...but it needs to be even cheaper to be "better" than the 5770 at current prices.
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