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Would this work?

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Anonymous
April 15, 2004 1:09:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vga-planets (More info?)

Just say I had 4 Virgos V1, V2, V3 and V4.
Can I set up each Virgo to intercept each other (V1 intercepts V2, V2
intercepts V3, V3 intercepts V4 and V4 intercepts V1) So if one of
the Virgos was towed by a cloaker to a waiting ship all
Virgos would go there?
So if V1 was towed, V2 would intercept, and as V2 moved V3 would
intercept V2 etc etc

More about : work

Anonymous
April 15, 2004 1:09:21 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vga-planets (More info?)

Glo8al wrote:
> Just say I had 4 Virgos V1, V2, V3 and V4.

V4 is off-topic in this newsgroup *duck*

> Can I set up each Virgo to intercept each other (V1 intercepts V2, V2
> intercepts V3, V3 intercepts V4 and V4 intercepts V1) So if one of
> the Virgos was towed by a cloaker to a waiting ship all
> Virgos would go there?
> So if V1 was towed, V2 would intercept, and as V2 moved V3 would
> intercept V2 etc etc

I'm quite sure that it would work in PHost. I think, in HOST, too, but I
would sim it before. (and I would also sim it in PHost, to check whether
intercept resolution actually works :-)


Stefan
Anonymous
April 15, 2004 3:54:49 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vga-planets (More info?)

Stefan Reuther wrote:
> > Can I set up each Virgo to intercept each other (V1 intercepts V2, V2
> > intercepts V3, V3 intercepts V4 and V4 intercepts V1) So if one of
> > the Virgos was towed by a cloaker to a waiting ship all
> > Virgos would go there?
> > So if V1 was towed, V2 would intercept, and as V2 moved V3 would
> > intercept V2 etc etc
> I'm quite sure that it would work in PHost. I think, in HOST, too, but I
> would sim it before. (and I would also sim it in PHost, to check whether
> intercept resolution actually works :-)

I would say don´t forget this little "acting in ID order" stuff.
Seems that Vs will not move this turn, only intercepting each other?

tom
Related resources
Anonymous
April 15, 2004 4:44:44 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vga-planets (More info?)

Thomas Würzer wrote:
> I would say don´t forget this little "acting in ID order" stuff.
> Seems that Vs will not move this turn, only intercepting each other?

I think that was the point. The four Virgoes are at the same spot and
intercepting each other, so they don't move. But if one of them is towed
away by some villain, the others will intercept it.
There is no way to have ships at the same spot intercept each other and
still move.
If you want to move anyway, you have to break the intercept circle and
make a chain out of it: one ship moves and number 2 intercepts it, 3
intercepts 2 etc. But then the last ship in the chain is vulnerable to
being towed away without being intercepted by one of its fellows...

--
Maurits van Rees | planets.maurits@xs4all.nl
http://maurits.vanrees.org/
"Be steady and well-ordered in your life so that
you can be fierce and original in your work." - Gustave Flaubert
April 15, 2004 4:57:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vga-planets (More info?)

Depending on ship IDs and intercept settings, only 1 ship my intercept the
towed vessel and the other may not move at all.

In any case, a good Pirate will tow more than 81 light years so that you
can't intercept. That's why you need to lay minefields to discourage the
long tow.

Good luck!!


"Thomas Würzer" <blank@blank.blank> wrote in message
news:407E5BE9.E0A10F49@wuerzer.de...
>
>
> Stefan Reuther wrote:
> > > Can I set up each Virgo to intercept each other (V1 intercepts V2, V2
> > > intercepts V3, V3 intercepts V4 and V4 intercepts V1) So if one of
> > > the Virgos was towed by a cloaker to a waiting ship all
> > > Virgos would go there?
> > > So if V1 was towed, V2 would intercept, and as V2 moved V3 would
> > > intercept V2 etc etc
> > I'm quite sure that it would work in PHost. I think, in HOST, too, but I
> > would sim it before. (and I would also sim it in PHost, to check whether
> > intercept resolution actually works :-)
>
> I would say don´t forget this little "acting in ID order" stuff.
> Seems that Vs will not move this turn, only intercepting each other?
>
> tom
Anonymous
April 15, 2004 5:32:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vga-planets (More info?)

Maurits van Rees wrote:
> If you want to move anyway, you have to break the intercept circle and
> make a chain out of it: one ship moves and number 2 intercepts it, 3
> intercepts 2 etc. But then the last ship in the chain is vulnerable to
> being towed away without being intercepted by one of its fellows...

And what if I´ll be an evil Pirate (True, by definition)???
Dropping in with a cloaker (MBR!!) for each Virgo??
----> Virgossacer ,-))

wondering......

tom
Anonymous
April 15, 2004 6:10:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vga-planets (More info?)

> And what if I´ll be an evil Pirate (True, by definition)???
> Dropping in with a cloaker (MBR!!) for each Virgo??
> ----> Virgossacer ,-))

A lousy Colonial commander who doesn't cover his space in minefields...
an even more lousy Colonial commander who has a carrier under his
command not set to "Minesweep"...

(IMHO the Colonies are the #2 minelaying race anyway (#1 being the
Crystals). Not the 'bots, definitely! Colonies can countermine and kill
other minefields by spending a 4th of the resources the opponent did.
The Colonies however erase mines without spending *any* resources...)

Kai
(Colonial enthusiast)
--
www.cornrelius.de - the VGA Planets War Academy
Anonymous
April 15, 2004 6:13:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vga-planets (More info?)

Thomas Würzer schrieb:

> And what if I´ll be an evil Pirate (True, by definition)???
> Dropping in with a cloaker (MBR!!) for each Virgo??
> ----> Virgossacer ,-))
>
> wondering......

A lousy Colonial commander who doesn't cover his space in minefields...
an even more lousy Colonial commander who has a single carrier under his
command not set to "Minesweep"...

(IMHO the Colonies are the #2 minelaying race anyway (#1 being the
Crystals). Not the 'bots, definitely! Robots can countermine and kill
other minefields by spending a quarter of the resources their opponent
used. The Colonies however erase mines without spending *any*
resources... and fightersweep happens before "mines destroy mines"!)

Kai
(Colonial enthusiast)
--
www.cornrelius.de - the VGA Planets War Academy
Anonymous
April 15, 2004 8:57:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vga-planets (More info?)

Kai Rosenthal wrote:
> (IMHO the Colonies are the #2 minelaying race anyway (#1 being the
> Crystals). Not the 'bots, definitely! Robots can countermine and kill
> other minefields by spending a quarter of the resources their opponent
> used. The Colonies however erase mines without spending *any*
> resources... and fightersweep happens before "mines destroy mines"!)

Well, one could argue about this. :-) The Colonies certainly are the #1
mineSWEEPING race. Also, their sweeping capabilities will help them when
laying mines if some other race could prevent this by laying mines of
their own. (As you mentioned: sweeping happens before "mines destroy
mines".) But when it comes to covering your entire territory with
large-scale overlapping mine fields to keep out the Privateers, the
Colonies only rank 3rd after the Crystals (#1) and Robots (#2). At least
IMHO...

Christian
(Just having successfully fought the Crystals and Colonies as a Robot)
Anonymous
April 15, 2004 10:56:24 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vga-planets (More info?)

> I'm quite sure that it would work in PHost. I think, in HOST, too, but I
> would sim it before. (and I would also sim it in PHost, to check whether
> intercept resolution actually works :-)

Since a few days, Z-Master can make hostsims (both, phost and host). I've
not written a doc til now, but i think all functions can easy be exploded.

In short:
-Tab Games: Hit the button "New Game Setup".
Here you have a few settings for pre-configure the Game... Host-PHost,
Shiplist, richness etc.

-Hit the Button "Create Game".
Now amaster* should master the universe, you should see a logfile with the
statistics and find the game in the right top Listbox at the "Game-Tab".

*Amaster (c) 1996-2003 by Michal Korzycki and Piotr Winiarczyk.

-Hit the button "Amaster Settings".
Here you can fine tuning the settings. Different settings can be stored for
use them later. Hit the Button "Apply amaster.src" for save your settings.

-Hit the Button "Hostconfig / Pconfig".
Same functions as before. Here you can fine tuning the Host settings.
Hconfig.exe can be started from here.

-Hit the button "Re(A)master.
Amaster creates a new universe with the new settings.

For the intercept question:
Go to the Tab "Ships" mark one of the ship-templates, hit the button "Set
ship with mouse" and click at the map. Do it for all ships you need.
Then go to the Tab "Map Objects", click at the ship and give him the
settings you wich at the right panel.
For the waypoint "Dest: x__ : y__" use the delta in LY. -200:000 for a
waypoint 200 ly in the west, 200:000 for east, 000:200 for nord and 000:-200
for south.
Do not forget to hit the button "Save" for save a edited ship before you go
to the next ship.

Now go back to the Tab "Games" and hit the button "Save Game".

-Hit the Button "Testhost".

Now you find a new game in the gamelist called TSIM0 for a Thost or PSIM0
for a PHost Game.

Suggestions and bug reports are welcome.

http://www.friendsnfun.net/zeus/

Harry

> Stefan
>
April 16, 2004 8:45:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vga-planets (More info?)

In article <blank@blank.blank>, blank@blank.blank says...
>
> And what if I=3Fll be an evil Pirate (True, by definition)???
> Dropping in with a cloaker (MBR!!) for each Virgo??
> ----> Virgossacer ,-))
>
> wondering......
>
> tom

Well.... I would only use 1 MBR if I knew he is intercepting his ships,
tow the single Virgo to a waiting wolfpack and watch all the other
Virgos intercepting it....

So if this wolfpack is less than 81 LYs away, all 4 Virgos will change
sides with only one lost MBR - which will probably lead to the
destruction of a large piece of Colonial territory just a few turns
later.....

So never intercept your carriers with other carriers unless you are sure
you are not fighting the Privateers.

--
Cheers!

Stefan

P.S: Please remove the _'s from my mail address if you want to contact
me.
April 16, 2004 8:47:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vga-planets (More info?)

In article <TEvfc.108$gh.49@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,
smcpherson75NOSPAMHeRe@hotmail.com says...
> Depending on ship IDs and intercept settings, only 1 ship my intercept the
> towed vessel and the other may not move at all.
>
> In any case, a good Pirate will tow more than 81 light years so that you
> can't intercept. That's why you need to lay minefields to discourage the
> long tow.
>
> Good luck!!

Wrong - each ship will intercept each other without caring for IDs. If
one ship is towed away, all others will follow, because tow and movement
happen way before intercept.

Also I would always tow a ship far less than 81 LYs if I get a wolfpack
in closer proximity because the change to hit mines decreases and the
chance to catch an interceptor increases.

A little different if the victim has lokis or glories, but then I
probably won't even get a MBR close to his biggies....

--
Cheers!

Stefan

P.S: Please remove the _'s from my mail address if you want to contact
me.
Anonymous
April 16, 2004 8:47:59 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vga-planets (More info?)

On 2004-04-16, Stefan <karl_das_tier@gmx.de> wrote:
> Also I would always tow a ship far less than 81 LYs if I get a wolfpack
> in closer proximity because the change to hit mines decreases and the
> chance to catch an interceptor increases.

Or you tow the Virgo say 90 ly East to a wolfpack.
And you have another MBR or wolfpack waiting cloaked at exactly 81 ly East.
They can then handle the intercepting ships. :-)
Maybe have some MBRs located at 64, 49 etc ly East as well. ;-)

Minefields indeed make it harder on the Privs and are the best defense you
can get.

--
Maurits van Rees
"Be steady and well-ordered in your life so that
you can be fierce and original in your work." - Gustave Flaubert
Anonymous
April 17, 2004 12:36:45 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vga-planets (More info?)

interesting discussion but however:

does anyone build virgos with 'good engines'

i remember something like they most times being towed
by cobols...

anyway. i would never intercept virgos with each other. makes no sense
because:

wolfpacks (priv)
glorys (fascist)
mines (anyone, intercepting ships dont sweep)
webmines (well a good bunch have them scattered around without ever sweeped)

but this is only my ho


> Just say I had 4 Virgos V1, V2, V3 and V4.
> Can I set up each Virgo to intercept each other (V1 intercepts V2, V2
> intercepts V3, V3 intercepts V4 and V4 intercepts V1)
Anonymous
April 17, 2004 1:04:37 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vga-planets (More info?)

>good Pirate

I like how most ppl assume that its the Privateers :) 
Well its the EE with a couple of Fascist traded cloakers.
So far I lost 2 Virgos to the tow (tow one to a waiting Gorbie).
I did have a mine field which so far he has been lucky (he has flown
twice through 40LY of mines second time was through a extra 21LY of
overlapping mines.
April 20, 2004 9:34:12 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vga-planets (More info?)

If I understand the question correctly, then each ship is intercepting a
different ship, right?

So we have:

S1 -> S2
S2 -> S3
S3 -> S4
S4 -> S1

Let's assume S3 is towed and that each ship ID is the same as their number
here. i.e. S1 = Ship ID 1.

Host does the following:
- Ships move
- Towing ships move (in this case S3)
- Intercepting ships move

All ships are processed in order of SHIP ID, correct?

Since S3 is towed, it does not intercept S4, which does not intercept S1. S1
intercepts S2 before it has moved. Hence, only S2 intercepts S3.

Does this make sense?

"Stefan" <karl_das_tier@gmx.de> wrote in message
news:MPG.1aea108cefd3252e989681@news.franken.de...
> In article <TEvfc.108$gh.49@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,
> smcpherson75NOSPAMHeRe@hotmail.com says...
> > Depending on ship IDs and intercept settings, only 1 ship my intercept
the
> > towed vessel and the other may not move at all.
> >
> > In any case, a good Pirate will tow more than 81 light years so that you
> > can't intercept. That's why you need to lay minefields to discourage the
> > long tow.
> >
> > Good luck!!
>
> Wrong - each ship will intercept each other without caring for IDs. If
> one ship is towed away, all others will follow, because tow and movement
> happen way before intercept.
>
> Also I would always tow a ship far less than 81 LYs if I get a wolfpack
> in closer proximity because the change to hit mines decreases and the
> chance to catch an interceptor increases.
>
> A little different if the victim has lokis or glories, but then I
> probably won't even get a MBR close to his biggies....
>
> --
> Cheers!
>
> Stefan
>
> P.S: Please remove the _'s from my mail address if you want to contact
> me.
Anonymous
April 20, 2004 9:56:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vga-planets (More info?)

> > I'm quite sure that it would work in PHost. I think, in HOST, too, but I
> > would sim it before. (and I would also sim it in PHost, to check whether
> > intercept resolution actually works :-)
>
> Since a few days, Z-Master can make hostsims (both, phost and host). I've
> not written a doc til now, but i think all functions can easy be exploded.

I've compiled a new version..
Player game datas can be imported into Z-Master now.

http://www.friendsnfun.net/zeus/

harry
Anonymous
April 21, 2004 5:35:57 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vga-planets (More info?)

Hm.. i had setup a scene with z-master for test this...

Very interesting...

Is it not a bug in z-master, then a ship with mission intercept can not be
towed under thost. Hm.. can not be true.. or?

harry
April 21, 2004 5:35:58 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vga-planets (More info?)

In my tests, all ships are intercepting eachother. A ship does indeed get
towed but only 0-1-2 intercept it depending on Ship IDs.

Regards,

S


"Harry Bur" <h.y@gmx.de> wrote in message
news:4085b345_2@news.arcor-ip.de...
> Hm.. i had setup a scene with z-master for test this...
>
> Very interesting...
>
> Is it not a bug in z-master, then a ship with mission intercept can not be
> towed under thost. Hm.. can not be true.. or?
>
> harry
>
>
Anonymous
April 21, 2004 10:37:57 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vga-planets (More info?)

Harry Bur wrote:

>Hm.. i had setup a scene with z-master for test this...
>Very interesting...
>Is it not a bug in z-master, then a ship with mission intercept can not be
>towed under thost. Hm.. can not be true.. or?
Yes, your test failed for some reason. Did you by any chance intercept a
ship that can cloak. THost has bug about intercepting those ships, at
least it used to have.
Anonymous
April 21, 2004 4:12:45 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vga-planets (More info?)

> Yes, your test failed for some reason. Did you by any chance intercept a
> ship that can cloak. THost has bug about intercepting those ships, at
> least it used to have.

I've found the bug... i do not correct reinitialize all records. Phost is
more tolerant here and i've done my tests with him because he is faster.
That's also a workaround until i've fixed it....Make first a PHost hostsim
(Checkbox PHost) and use the new PSIMxx as base for THost sims. (Checkbox
THost now)
Yep.. torp tubes gets also not correct written... it was possible to early
to publish this version... but hey...i can not find the bugs all alone ;-)
Suggestions are also welcome.

harry
Anonymous
April 21, 2004 5:52:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vga-planets (More info?)

> Yes, your test failed for some reason. Did you by any chance intercept a
> ship that can cloak. THost has bug about intercepting those ships, at
> least it used to have.

Which bug? Not being able to intercept somethign you cannot see moving is
hardly a bug..
Anonymous
April 22, 2004 2:35:55 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vga-planets (More info?)

Sascha Rambeaud wrote:

>
>
>> Yes, your test failed for some reason. Did you by any chance intercept a
>> ship that can cloak. THost has bug about intercepting those ships, at
>> least it used to have.
>
>Which bug? Not being able to intercept somethign you cannot see moving is
>hardly a bug..
No. I said :"that can cloak". That alone shouldn't make intercept fail,
now does it? This bug has particularly happened with ships that you own
yourself, and which were cloaked last turn, but decloaked on the turn
you intercepted them. I think the bug is, THost *thinks* they are still
cloaked and fails the intercept.

THost has a similiar problem with Ionstorm damage and ship mass. THost
doesn't recalculate the mass of ship before ionstorms damage ships.
Because of that, the ships get damage based on the mass they had last
turn.
April 23, 2004 7:29:06 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vga-planets (More info?)

On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:09:20 +1000, Glo8al <glo8alNO@SPAM.hotmail.com>
wrote:

>Just say I had 4 Virgos V1, V2, V3 and V4.
>Can I set up each Virgo to intercept each other (V1 intercepts V2, V2
> intercepts V3, V3 intercepts V4 and V4 intercepts V1) So if one of
>the Virgos was towed by a cloaker to a waiting ship all
>Virgos would go there?
> So if V1 was towed, V2 would intercept, and as V2 moved V3 would
> intercept V2 etc etc

In Host, intercept happens after all other movement, and in ID order.
This produces the following effects:

1) Any ship that intercepts a towed or normally moved ship will end
up at the same location with its target.

2) Any ship that intercepts an interceptor with a lower ID will also
end up with its target.

3) Any ship that intercepts a higher ID interceptor will end up where
its target /was/ (it moves, then it stays put when its target moves).
Unless the target doesn't move, they will be in different locations.

For your circle intercept to work, each Virgo needs to intercept one
with a lower ID than itself. The lowest ID has to intercept the
highest. (If you do it the other way around, most of your ships will
wind up alone in space). This will probably leave your Virgos in two
groups: The ships with IDs higher than the one towed will meet it,
and the others will follow the lowest ID ship to where the highest ID
ship started.

In the best case, the highest or lowest ID ship is towed and all the
others move to it in a chain. The worst case is when the second
highest ID is towed, and only the highest moves to it.

Circle intercepts are a dangerous strategy; they let your enemy choose
how many of your ships he fights. You will be able to get at least
one support ship to the towed one, but don't count on more.
--
tmackey adelphia net is my email address
Anonymous
April 26, 2004 5:55:00 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vga-planets (More info?)

Kai Rosenthal wrote:

> and fightersweep happens before "mines destroy mines"!)

So you don't refer to PHost:

http://www.phost.de/dox/formulas.htm#MissionOrder
<-----------------------------------------------------
15. Minefield Decay
16. Mine Laying and Minefield Explosions
17. Minefields which still overlap explode (3.4f and later)
18. Minefield Friendly Code Assignment
19. Minefield Sweeping
<-----------------------------------------------------


Regards, Thomas
Anonymous
April 26, 2004 6:48:00 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vga-planets (More info?)

Andreas Huck wrote:

> i remember something like they most times being towed by cobols...

That way cobols do NOT produce fuel. -> bad idea.


Regards, Thomas
April 26, 2004 9:13:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vga-planets (More info?)

On 26 Apr 2004 14:48:00 +0200, tom-usenet@tronn.ath.cx (Thomas
Schuering) wrote:

>Andreas Huck wrote:
>
>> i remember something like they most times being towed by cobols...
>
>That way cobols do NOT produce fuel. -> bad idea.

Wow, so there are still people who think Cobols don't produce fuel
while towing?
--
Donovan

VGAP Help, information, tactics and more at
Donovan's: http://www.xs4all.nl/~donovan
Anonymous
April 27, 2004 3:14:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vga-planets (More info?)

Donovan <spamfordonovan@xs4all.nl> wrote:
> On 26 Apr 2004 14:48:00 +0200, tom-usenet@tronn.ath.cx (Thomas
> Schuering) wrote:
>
> >Andreas Huck wrote:
> >
> >> i remember something like they most times being towed by cobols...
> >
> >That way cobols do NOT produce fuel. -> bad idea.
>
> Wow, so there are still people who think Cobols don't produce fuel
> while towing?

Is that so bad? People should believe the manual and IIRC the manual states
that cobols do not produce fuel while towing. That the manual is incorrect
and should be updated is a different point.

(and yes, I knew that the manual is wrong).

--
Hennes
Anonymous
April 27, 2004 6:43:56 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vga-planets (More info?)

Op 2004-04-27, Hennes Passmann schreef <hennes@stack.nl>:
> (and yes, I knew that the manual is wrong).

But... But... Donovan *IS* the manual! And he's *never* wrong! ;-)
Well, at any rate, http://www.xs4all.nl/~donovan/ is as good an info site
on VGA Planets as you'll ever find. The standard docs that come with the
game are probably okay as an introduction. But if you want to look up an
answer, Donovan's will get you that answer more quickly.

--
Maurits van Rees
http://maurits.vanrees.org/
"Be steady and well-ordered in your life so that
you can be fierce and original in your work." - Gustave Flaubert
!