Where could I find the latest version of RandMax / RandGen?

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Hi, I'm using an old version of RM/RG, i found it by quickly googling the
web but I'd need the latest version because this one is miscalculating some
natives tax / max growing. Thanks for your help.
 
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> Hi, I'm using an old version of RM/RG, i found it by quickly googling the
> web but I'd need the latest version because this one is miscalculating
some
> natives tax / max growing. Thanks for your help.

Hello
I, myself, tried to get in touch with the author(s), but I failed.
I was able to modify only Randgen (the sources for this are available) and I
fixed some bugs through Randgen, since Randmax has no published sources.
I'm using the modified version of Randgen and I'm proud of it, since it
fixes a lot of problems the old Randgen has, and also fixes some problems
Randmax has (through work-around).
Are you interested in the modified version of the Randgen?
.... I don't know if it's "ok" to publish the modified version of Rangen ...
Can someone answer this?

Yours,
Dacian
 
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* Dacian Hantig <dacianhantig@rdslink.ro> wrote:

> Are you interested in the modified version of the Randgen?

Yes.

> ... I don't know if it's "ok" to publish the modified version of
> Rangen ... Can someone answer this?

It depends on Randgen's license. Is it free software?

Regards, Heiko
 
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> Are you interested in the modified version of the Randgen?
> ... I don't know if it's "ok" to publish the modified version of Rangen ...
> Can someone answer this?

I'm very much interested in a modified version.
I guess it's ok to publish modified versions as they released the
source code for people to adjust.
 
G

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> > Are you interested in the modified version of the Randgen?
>
> Yes.
>
> > ... I don't know if it's "ok" to publish the modified version of
> > Rangen ... Can someone answer this?
>
> It depends on Randgen's license. Is it free software?

I asked because I did not find any licence within the files from internet :)
I'm not good with author rights, but I assume this "means" freeware. If
someone disagree, please tell me

Dacian
 
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Dacian Hantig wrote:

>
> I asked because I did not find any licence within the files from internet :)
> I'm not good with author rights, but I assume this "means" freeware. If
> someone disagree, please tell me

Quite the contrary IMHO.

No license is as far as I understand it one of the most unfree licenses,
because the author's rights by law are that (s)he has the full rights to
her/his codes, even if the source is publically available. If the author
does not give explicit permission to use/modify/redistribute the code
you are basically stealing her/his code.

But, I'm not a lawyer at all.

Bad luck right now I suppose

Carsten
 
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Heiko Schlenker wrote:

>
> It depends on Randgen's license. Is it free software?

Just browsed agv(p) a bit, according to
<Pine.SUN.3.95.980521194824.26069A-100000@cip65> from 1998 the code was
(once) distributed to the auther of that article under the GPL. Maybe
someonw still knows this guy (or hist email address).

HTH CA
 
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Heiko Schlenker wrote:

>> Are you interested in the modified version of the Randgen?
I would like to get a copy too. Just send it here. Have you documentated
the changes, in source or external file?

What version did you start with? I have version 1.3 but no source. I
seem to recall I had once an earlier version with source.

As for Randmax, I'm fairly sure the author gave the sources to the
author of randmax++.

What email address did you try? I think either neffets@cs.tu-berlin.de
or neffets@neffets.de should work. Both can be found from a page last
updated in August 03.

>> ... I don't know if it's "ok" to publish the modified version of
>> Rangen ... Can someone answer this?
>It depends on Randgen's license. Is it free software?
I think it is. The docs state:
"RANDGEN is freeware. You may upload it to any bbs or distribute it on
the internet as long as it serves no commercial purpose."
After all, if the author gave away the sources, surely it means that
anyone can further improve it and give the results for others.
 
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Carsten Aulbert wrote:

>Quite the contrary IMHO.
>No license is as far as I understand it one of the most unfree licenses
I agree. But the docs state freeware. Anyway, you can safely break a law
if there's no risk of anyone sueing you. In this case it would be rather
jolly if the Randgen author comes around and sues Dacian.
 
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Akseli Mäki wrote:

> I agree. But the docs state freeware. Anyway, you can safely break a law
> if there's no risk of anyone sueing you. In this case it would be rather
> jolly if the Randgen author comes around and sues Dacian.

OK, when the docs state it's freeware, Dacian should be on the bright
edge of the gray zone of legal disputes ;-)

CA
 
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* Dacian Hantig <dacianhantig@rdslink.ro> wrote:

> I asked because I did not find any licence within the files from
> internet :)

Then you have to ask the author for permission. Maybe he is so kind
to change the license.

> I'm not good with author rights, but I assume this "means" freeware.

"Freeware" doesn't mean that you are allowed to distribute a modified
version of the program.

Regards, Heiko
 
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* Carsten Aulbert <usenet.aulbert@welcomes-you.com> wrote:

> OK, when the docs state it's freeware, Dacian should be on the bright
> edge of the gray zone of legal disputes ;-)

Nope. "Freeware" means that you are allowed to use the program
without charge. It doesn't mean that you are allowed to distribute a
modified version.

Regards, Heiko
 
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* Carsten Aulbert <usenet.aulbert@welcomes-you.com> wrote:

> Just browsed agv(p) a bit, according to
> <Pine.SUN.3.95.980521194824.26069A-100000@cip65> from 1998 the code
> was (once) distributed to the auther of that article under the GPL.

If that is true then it is okay to modify the program and to
distribute it. You must make sure that the users can get the source
code.

Regards, Heiko
 
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* Akseli Mäki <newsgroups@akseli-yok.utu.fi> wrote:

> Heiko Schlenker wrote:
>>It depends on Randgen's license. Is it free software?
> I think it is. The docs state:
> "RANDGEN is freeware.

freeware != free software

| ``Free software'' is a matter of liberty, not price. To understand
| the concept, you should think of ``free speech'', not ``free beer.''
-- http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html

See also:
news:slrnc84qci.313.hschlen@humbert.ddns.org
<slrnc84qci.313.hschlen@humbert.ddns.org>

> You may upload it to any bbs or distribute it on the internet as
> long as it serves no commercial purpose."

So, the author didn't say that it is allowed to distribute a
modified version.

Regards, Heiko
 
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Heiko Schlenker <hschlen@gmx.de> wrote:
> * Dacian Hantig <dacianhantig@rdslink.ro> wrote:
>> I asked because I did not find any licence within the files from
>> internet :)

> Then you have to ask the author for permission. Maybe he is so kind
> to change the license.

That's the safest way.

>> I'm not good with author rights, but I assume this "means" freeware.

> "Freeware" doesn't mean that you are allowed to distribute a modified
> version of the program.

I don't know of a legal definition of the term "freeware". Sun
distributes readily-packaged ports of GNU software for Solaris
as "Sun Freeware". A decade ago, "freeware[tm]" was a trademark
for a distribution concept now known as "shareware". People
grown up in a GNU world might think of "freeware" as a shorter
term for "free software" (free as in free speech).

So all that remains is common sense. If I find a program on a
website without any legal strings attached, I assume this to
mean at least that I'm allowed to use the program. If source is
included, I assume this also means I'm allowed to modify it.

I am *not* allowed to redistribute it by default, neither the
original nor the modified version. But I am allowed to
distribute my patch (e.g. a GNU uni-diff file).

Compare this to radio / TV: everyone's allowed to watch (=use)
the unencrypted channels. If the station didn't want you to do
that, they would encrypt it. But you are not allowed to record
their transmissions and broadcast (=redistribute) them on your
own channel.


Stefan
 
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Heiko Schlenker wrote:

>
> Nope. "Freeware" means that you are allowed to use the program
> without charge. It doesn't mean that you are allowed to distribute a
> modified version.

Correct, sorry for distributing nonsense.

Carsten
 
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> >> Are you interested in the modified version of the Randgen?
> I would like to get a copy too. Just send it here. Have you documentated
> the changes, in source or external file?

I just changed the code (some routines were with many rounding errors). I
didn't comment a lot, but I included all the new features to the doc file
that accompanies the randgen.exe file. I also tested it for over 6-7 months
now in 3 games and many of my local simulations.
You can be sure I'll send a copy to you, as soon as this dispute regarding
freeware is settled.

> What version did you start with? I have version 1.3 but no source. I
> seem to recall I had once an earlier version with source.

I started with the latest I could get from Internet : RANDGEN V1.2a 7/31/95

> As for Randmax, I'm fairly sure the author gave the sources to the
> author of randmax++.

As I understood from Steffen (randmax@neffets.in-berlin.de) Randmax was not
further developed. When I tried to get the right to revive it I got no
response at all. Damn! :(

> What email address did you try? I think either neffets@cs.tu-berlin.de
> or neffets@neffets.de should work. Both can be found from a page last
> updated in August 03.

I'm not sure but one of them is not working (I don't remember which).

> >> ... I don't know if it's "ok" to publish the modified version of
> >> Rangen ... Can someone answer this?
> >It depends on Randgen's license. Is it free software?
> I think it is. The docs state:
> "RANDGEN is freeware. You may upload it to any bbs or distribute it on
> the internet as long as it serves no commercial purpose."
> After all, if the author gave away the sources, surely it means that
> anyone can further improve it and give the results for others.

Now with all this arguing I'm not quite sure of this. I don't want to be a
pirate ... :(

Greetings,
Dacian
 
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> > Just browsed agv(p) a bit, according to
> > <Pine.SUN.3.95.980521194824.26069A-100000@cip65> from 1998 the code
> > was (once) distributed to the auther of that article under the GPL.
>
> If that is true then it is okay to modify the program and to
> distribute it. You must make sure that the users can get the source
> code.

I don't know how to get to these links ... Can someone explain to me?

> Regards, Heiko

Heiko, did you read these links and there says that is allowed to modify the
code, but publish also the source file?

Thx,
Dacian
 
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Dacian Hantig wrote:

> I don't know how to get to these links ... Can someone explain to me?
>

start at http://groups.google.com/, choose advanced group search and cut
and paste the link into the "Message ID" field, hit Google Search and
there you go :)

CA
 
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> I'm very much interested in a modified version.

You'll get one :) as soon as this dispute is settled

> I guess it's ok to publish modified versions as they released the
> source code for people to adjust.

I assumed the same, but I guess not all do agree with us ... I'm not good
into software rights, but I sure want to learn from the others

Dacian
 
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> What version did you start with? I have version 1.3 but no source. I
> seem to recall I had once an earlier version with source.

Where did you found this version? The latest I could find was 1.2a.

Dacian
 
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Dacian Hantig wrote:

>> What version did you start with? I have version 1.3 but no source. I
>> seem to recall I had once an earlier version with source.
>Where did you found this version? The latest I could find was 1.2a.
I think it might be found in maybe one or two places, I don't know, but
originally it was shipped with ADP, which is where I got it from. I
*think* it's official version from the original author, just one that
hasn't been officially released.

Is for the author of ADP, I've tried and failed to contact him.
 
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Heiko Schlenker wrote:

>Nope. "Freeware" means that you are allowed to use the program
>without charge. It doesn't mean that you are allowed to distribute a
>modified version.
Is that legal fact? That is, does German law define the meaning of
freeware? I think this is rather grey issue. But still, as long as there
is very little chance of being sued..
 
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* Akseli Mäki <newsgroups@akseli-yok.utu.fi> wrote:

[freeware]
> Heiko Schlenker wrote:
>>It doesn't mean that you are allowed to distribute a
^^^^^^^^^^
>>modified version.
> Is that legal fact?

Yep. Stefan has written some detailed comments about this issue
(news:1082297175.irz750@stefan.msgid.phost.de).

Regards, Heiko
 
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