Upgrade or wait?

[cats_Paw]

Hi,
I want to upgrade my current rig, and im not really sure how to.
Specs:
Asus X48 Rampage Formula//q6600 with liquid cooling, currently oc 3ghz//4GB ddr2 800MHZ//2 4850 crossfire with aftermakret cooling, currently no oc.

Now im looking for a way to upgrade my rig, and ofc if not worth it in the long run, im just going to wait.

My first idea was to get 2 6850/6870. Then i thought mayb my cpu would bottleneck them.
Also i like 2 things that Nvidia provides: 3d and physx.
Im thinking long term here (2 years), since even with what i have now im quite happy.

Now the things i want working is stuff like crysis crysis warhead and metro 2033 1900x1200 all settings v high no AA.

If impossible np, ill wait till next generation.
Any infowould be good, including personal opinions and expirince with those settings.
NOTE: i favor normally dual gpu systems since they are cheaper, but mostly microshuttering or some stuff like that make me also think nvidia is better.

basicly if i get a Nvidia it would be a MSI twin frozor 560 ti 1 gb, take out my 2 ati radeon 4850s, and buy a 2nd 560 when i change my mobo/cpu.

Ofc this could not be possible if next mobos/cpus turn out to be in some way totally new and work great only with the next generations of gpus.

If id get 6950/6970, id get 1 now, 1 next month and try to export them to my new rig, at least for the time beeing untill i get more money .

note that i have a 700W thermaltake thoughtpower PSU, and 3 hdds, 13 fans, some leds and a frontal panel (dont forget the 24W water pump). so id be changing a 108 max power draw for a max 185 per gpu...
I can always get a new psu as well.

All in all, opinions much apriciated.

Note that i dotn have much cash now, and im not interested in getting a totally new rig, since my old one still has a decent performance generally speaking.

 

[AngelOfDarkness]

If i was you i'd wait until the LGA 2011 socket mobos comes out, but you still can buy 2 MSI GTX 460 HAWK TALON and do SLI for $400 they will be able to run Crysis at 55 fps or more if overclocking.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127534

 

[purple stain]

I would defnitly reccomend the GTX560.Currently seems like the best buy imo,6950 goes for $50 more but they perform practically the same.Their is the 6870 but it's only $20 more for the GTX560.Scaling with the 560 in SLI is the same thing you would see with AMD's new 6xxx series,so it's really good.Also the GTX560's run quieter and cooler than both the 68xx and 69xx series.Quite remarkable.

But you absoutley must upgrade your CPU if you decide to get a new GPU.All of those cards you suggested,GTX560,6870,6950,will seriously be held back by your CPU.

If you like Intel i suggest you get one of the new Sandy Bridge i5's.If you want to go for the AMD route Bulldozer is supposidly going to be released next month.Somthing to think about if you want to wait a while for your CPU upgrade.I'm sure prices will fluxiate for both Intel and AMD once those new chips come out.

 

[purple stain]

Here's a review you might want to check out.

http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon-hd-6950-1gb-vs-geforce-gtx-560-ti-review/13

GTX560 vs 6950 vs 6870

 

[cats_Paw]

Well, in most reviews 2 ati 6870 in Crossfire beat 560 in SLI hands down, basicly gets 95% increse in performance in crossifre, but still you get ver low minimum fps.
Problem is i have a 775 mobo that can go crossfire only, so id have to change the entire PC for that.
Correct me if im wrong but, a Q6600 if highly OC i hear it performas as a non oced i5.

 

[purple stain]

It's gotta be a pretty big O.C. Talkin like 4ghz+

Mobo's that say they are made specificly for SLI or Crossfire can still use other brand of cards.It is still a Pci-expressx16 slot.Doesn't really matter what brand it is it will still work like it should.

Can't find anything anywhere of a 560sli and a 6870cf benchmark.I was almost certain that the GTX560 pulled ahead of the 6870 because as a single card the GTX560 would always win.Maybe the 6870 just scales much much better but i thought Nvidia was using the same type of scaling technology.

 

[purple stain]

Personally i think you should hold off on the GPU upgrade until you get a new CPU.With your current CPU if you get a GTX560 or a 6870 the computer would probably make them run at half their desigined speed.

 

[cats_Paw]

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/CPU/50

I took a look at a q6600 non overclocked wile with a gtx280, and it gets 70 fps on crysis warhead mainstream, physx enthusiast and 4AA. So unless they are really flat out lieing, i dont see the CPU as a bottle neck at all.

I can safely oc my CPu to 3.2 ghz, mayb 3.6 if i flash bios and get the chance to oc there (liquid cooling).

I want to get a Nvidia for 3d reasons as well as physix support....
I might just buy 1 and return it if it turns out its not a huge change ;D.

 

[purple stain]

3D is offered both by Nvidia and ATI.

It's just the technology is different(older)with the older quad cores.Since all those era of quad cores are the first generation they are very slow by today standards.Thats why you need to have a higher O.C. with them rather than with a newer quad core.

 

[cats_Paw]

I got the G0 version. On the other hand Nvidia offers 3d for every gdfx based game, where ati does only to a few games, and those look quite bad.
I dont really care if my cpu is "old", if i can get 30 fps on a game like crysis/crysis warhead on maxed settings with a gpu that i will be able to use in the future in SLI, for me its worth it.

 

[purple stain]

If you were to play Crysis i would say go for Original Crysis.The first one is more GPU demanding than CPU so you should see better frames in that one.I guess for older games like Crysis being at 3ghz wouldn't be a problem but if your trying to play newer games like BFBC2 or Metro 2033 it will defnitly cause a bottleneck.

 

[cats_Paw]

Metro is not an issue even on my current hardware: if i oc cpu and both gpus i can play with over 30 FPS on 1650x1080 on high settings in Metro2033. It slightly lags on physx depending moments but apart from that its perfectly playble (ofc NO AA).

 

[purple stain]

O wow,i'm very picky about FPS.I can't stand anything under 60FPS.I guess if you can stand 30FPS you should be fine.Theirs no reason your system can't pull 30FPS in every game.Although it's good to remember than you could gain about a 40-60% FPS gain with a new CPU.

 

[cats_Paw]

My CPU oc gets 0% benefit with my current GPUs, and when i talk about 30 fps, i mean minimum, not averege.
Problem is Crysis can sometimes hit ridiculisly low FPS on my computer, probably becouse of crossfire problems.
Minimum fps for my gpus not in crossfire is 17 FPS, and that is way 2 low in games like crysis, split second, etc.

I do get benefits from even very small GPU ocs, that is why im more inclinde to belive my gpus are the slower part here.

I checked many webpages like 3dguru or that anadatech to see as many opinions as possible.
In all of them CPUs limit the games but the limit is a lot higher than mine (my cpu on stock pulling off 70 fps in crysis?! with a gtx280?!... well even 50 would be crazy.

 

[purple stain]

Well the GTX280 is a big hard.I wouldn't be suprised if that is actually true.

Well i don't see why your 4850's aren't working in crossfire as they should.I mean they've been around for 2-3 years and all of the drivers should support it.And all of the games too.

Have you tryed downloading the most recent drivers from ATI?

 

[cats_Paw]

Ofc i did man . No, im quite aware of the limitations of the 4850 in crossfire: consider the bus is a 256, so the 4ghz ram of the GPUS simply cant fit into it well enought.
when u mix that with 2 gpus working togheter to create an image the way the ati tecnology does, many times 1 gpu has to wait for the other 1 , creating low minimum fps.

Let me explain this in a more real gaming example: if i play crysis warhead, the first level, i can play 1900x1200 all max settings no AA, with over 35 fps. However, on other maps that have more objects moving and calculated in the GPUs, 1 4850 gives me better minimum fps than 2.

This is something well known, ATI will always hit lower minimum fps in crossfire than Nvidia SLI, however maximum fps will depend on how well GPUs scale, including drivers.

 

[purple stain]

So what are you going to do?

Just get the GPU now and CPU later?
What GPU have you decided on?

 

[cats_Paw]

Probably GTX560Ti 1 GB version. MSI twin frozor is cheapest version i can get in my country (spain) for 209 Euros.

Im going to have to get a 120 Hz monitor , 3dglasses, and after that save for next generation mayb? i mean next mobo/socket generation.

 

[purple stain]

3D monitors aren't cheap.I'd say like $300 U.S.You sure you don't wanna spend that money on a new CPU instead?I mean 3D is still in it's baby stages right now.Would probably be better to buy in a year or 2.But if you are going to SLI or Crossfire,whichever, i would definitly suggest a multiple monitor setup instead of the 3D,its really worth it.

Thats funny the twin frozor is the cheapest there.It's one of the most expensive here.But thats actually a good thing for you because the twin frozor is probably the best GTX560 they make besides the Asus versions.But they both use the same technology when it comes to heatsinks(DirectCU)

 

[cats_Paw]

i know, besides an aftermarket cooler would be much better anyway (my 4850s use thermaltake duorbs and never get over 60C).
The monitor wont be cheat so im not gonna get it this month, manyb in 3 months.

 

[purple stain]

^Re-read my post^

Thats really good for a pair of 4850's.I hear those things are monstors when it comes to power and heat.

 

[cats_Paw]

on stock cooling they went up to 109C and then started runnign really bad (no surprise there).
And btw, if i change the thermal paste they hit minimums of 33C, i know its hard to belive .

 

[purple stain]

Isn't the max 100c?

Thats really good.Almost room temp.

So do you need help with anything else or are you pretty much set here?