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Query regarding fans.

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March 13, 2011 1:33:15 PM

Hello,
I have a Cooler Master Elite 360 Case and my new Pc is running quite hot. I want to fit one additional fan for the case. I want to know which one(brand) to buy and the size(mm) and also where to fit it to get lower temperatures(rear/top/bottom). Please help!

More about : query fans

a c 112 à CPUs
March 13, 2011 3:42:52 PM

quite hot? no actual temps?

if you want looks then thermaltake tricool blue, are ok. they have 3 speeds and push reasonably high cfm's
if you don't want it looking like a 70's robot the yate loon in my experience are great.
running at 600-2200rpm are pretty much unmatched performance wise pushing a staggering 85cfm from 120mm...

tip 1: have at least 2 fans in the front bottom if you can and 1 at the back top remembering that you want to create a slightly positive atmosphere so you don't suck in dust at every fold and joint in the case.

tip2: sleeve bearing fans are quieter than ball bearing fans but often wont last as long 30,000 hours for sleeved as opposed to 50,000 for the ball.
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March 13, 2011 4:55:03 PM

Fan selection is as complicaed as you want to make it. Considerations are price, value, CFM (airflow, cubic feet per minute), and pressure (usually inches of h2o) which depends on use. Connections vary depending on whether you want power supply (4 pin molex) or three or four pin motherboard type connectors.You can download Speed Fan software to monitor temperature and motherboard connected fans. CPU-Z is also useful.
THE review on the Elite 360 says it comes with a top fan, which may be 120/92/80mm, not clear which. Bottom accepts an 80mm fan, rear two 80mm fans.
Case is narrow and may be orientated horizontally or vertically.
IN GENERAL the more air moved front to back the better.
The Nate Loon are very good quiet fans, available in Low, Medium, and High speed versions. Scythe Gentle Typhoon are similar or the same depending on source, also very good. Scythe Kasi, etc move more air with more noise. Noctua seems "best" if pricey.
Note individual models an vary widely in performance even from the same companies.
Easiest is shop for good prices on Nate Loon and install.
Monitor result with softwear.
If you are using stock CPU cooler an aftermarket MIGHT move more air thru case (if a good one fits).
I have found articles that claim ball bearing fans should be used in horizontal positions since lubricant may not reach top" of sleeve bearings.
Old saw is Sleeve Bearings Start quieter and become louder, while ball bearings endure,
There are a multitude or means to control fan speed and monitor tempatures.
Putting filters on any intake fans mounted is a good idea.
Hope it HELPS.


In general
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March 13, 2011 5:52:26 PM

@hexit The temps are 43'C on idle and about 56'C when I'm playing Aion. My room temperature is quite high, about 30'C on an average. I am planning to move my Pc to my other bedroom(Air conditioned), should i get an intake or blowing out one...thats confusing...many say blowing out is better....if blowing out ,should i get it on the side or rear??

@walterm That was a very detailed and nice info....actually I want to change to an after market cpu cooler, but I don't want to right now....Changing to an after market cooler lowers the temp considerably right?? for now, i want to add one fan to the cabinet...my dilemma is whether to put an intake or blowing out one....and where to put it??? Rear or side?? And how much mm fan would actually make any difference in temp....?
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March 13, 2011 8:21:07 PM

You are the one most familiar with the case until someone who owns one speaks up. The easiest thing to do is make a choice and try it. The same fan can pull in or blow out, though some are "better" at one aspect or the other.
Generally it is better to pull as much hot air OUT of a case as possible. This would be simple if cases were a long rectangular box with fans at the back and inlet at the front.
Most cases require a kind of "S" airflow. Putting a fan in the "wrong" place interferes with airflow and or direction.
Again the easiest answer is think it through and testing .
When possible filtered fans "over pressuring" the case is ideal. This means exhaust and air flow is aided by more CFM coming in than out. (yes impossible, but you get the idea).
This also keeps out dust since no dusty air can be drawn in thru other than the filtered openings. I don't know if Cooler Master will send you fan specs, or if there are part numbers on the installed fans. If you want to remove each fan , copy any numbers and web search specifications and or reviews.
Very roughly to achieve overpresure the combined CFM of the in blowing fans would have to exceed that of the outblowing fans.
To achieve this might require a fan sounding like a vacuum cleaner.
I do not want to be accused of spamming but 120mm Nate Loon fans can be found for $8 OR $9 SHIPPED, 2 for $15 same speed, power supply connectors.
Smaller fans must spin faster to more the same air so it is harder.
For trial purposes Delta, AVC, Adda, offer 80mm X 38mm High Speed fans under $10, you would probly want a fan controler like the Zalman which is $10 list and discounted.
This is a speed controler for a small 3 pin (motherboard type) to psu molex 4 pin adapter.
Note: I have been warned, check power ratings on fans before connecting to motherboard. A .2 OR .4 AMP 12 VOLT FAN means up to 2.4 or 4.8 watt continuous, but start up current can be higher. ONE 92 MM fan I bought was .9 AMP 10.6 watts. [amps x volts = watts]
Anyway, fans and airflow are another specialty where you need an idea of whats important and are willing to do a little research.
Just check possible connections, try a fan both ways (in ; out), use CPU-Z, or Speed Fan for comparative temperatures.
As far as aftermarket heatsinks go, there are two factors, size and quality ; cost, and it's easiest to find a big one that works well. A 5 1/2 inch case width means no verticle 120MM [4 3/4 inch] heatsinks, horisontal fans that work better than stock are difficult or expensive.
Aftermarket heatsinks/fans technically void your warranty on CPU, Usually improve CPU cooling and usually increase case cooling and airflow where its most needed. but not always.
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a c 112 à CPUs
March 13, 2011 9:04:41 PM

mate its YATE loon... not being nasty by correcting you, coz your info is good. but a simple mistake like that can tear holes in your credibility

http://www.yateloon.com/

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a c 120 à CPUs
March 14, 2011 1:16:45 AM

HEXiT said:
mate its YATE loon... not being nasty by correcting you, coz your info is good. but a simple mistake like that can tear holes in your credibility

http://www.yateloon.com/

Lol! just like Thermaltake Tri-cools .
How does your foot taste?
You guys kill me!
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a c 112 à CPUs
March 14, 2011 1:21:29 AM

lol your rite my bad its antec tri cool (facepalm)


even i can make mistakes when ive had no sleep...
i have both thermaltake and antec fans in my case thus the mistake... again i apologies (anyways i wasn't being nasty) *shrug*
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a b à CPUs
March 14, 2011 2:23:02 AM

Wasn't Nate Loon a character in Monty Python sketches

Front to back
bottom to top
rule of the fans
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a b à CPUs
March 14, 2011 2:33:23 AM

that rule is for stand up towers

also you want NEGATIVE pressure in a case
at least that is what being a trained heating and air technician and
extensive reading tell me

think logically if there is postive pressure in case than more air is
coming in at a faster rate than going out

So heat would not ventilate out case

you want more exhausts than intakes

also everybody worries about graphics card and cpu and even memory
but the biggest heat generator in your case would be the power supply

that is the idea of top mounted PSUs so heat does rise through a straight up tower.

on a standing up tower a exhaust over the GPU/PCI bridge is good

an intake into CPU is good

really hard to say without knowing the layout
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March 14, 2011 2:36:49 PM

Thanks you guyz, it was very informative....
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March 15, 2011 2:22:55 AM

Yeah Yate Loon, yes yes, monty python you are on your own, Firesign Theatre now..
To point, the case designs are chaning two ways, filtering more air [ more mesh convering including filters] and more fans.
Cooling still reqires air movement, hopefully cooler outside air, reaching all components.
Going from BTX to ATX required major revisions in air flow fans and heatsinks.
We are leaving an era when Overcloclocked CPUs might use 200 watt capable coolers.
Generally:
Going into too much detail is off puting, basics include measuring changes, and learning the basics of picking a fan.
Details are fasinating or boring, depending on interest.
If you look at White papers on P4 or AM2 140 Watt designs from ten years ago? they changed case design. Remember air ducts?
The power supply was about 50 to 70 % efficient and moved air for both the case and the power supply.
80+ DESIGNS often Do Not run their fans until reaching half or more of their rated wattage. The day of a power supply contributing to case cooling is pretty much gone. IF YOUR SYSTEM averages 300 watt (high these days) at 85 % that means the psu is only "wasting " 45 watts to heat. Think of a small light blb with heat sinks.
The CPU's, even the video cards involved have reduced the current used.

Generally adding a fan to a case which is ready for one is simple, and only requires a decision on direction of flow. You can find filter assemlies for $4 or $5. A fan, depending on features $5 to $25 or so.
Most sleeve bearing should be good for at lest 20,000 hours. That's at 8 hours a day 2,500 days, just under 357 weeks, which is 6 years. Or two years at 24/7 use.
You can spend more upgrading fans than you spent on your case.
Usually Cooler Master does a fair job on air flow. And like most cases, cost dictates acessories. YAH>>>???? pay less get less
As for over pressure, my reading/study supports the idea air entering the case should be filtered, to maintain long term cooling ability.
AT fan capabilities air is pretty much an incompressible fluid. Inlet fans primarily just insure airflow enters thru filters when it attempts to "fill" the case with air.
The exhaust fans do most of the work. This airflow among all components is critical.
This is why cable routing/management is important.

Yes Antec Tri-Cools are good fans and offer three speeds. Some people find them loud at full speed, depending on case.
Yes THERMALTAKE makes some excellent fans, but I don't know their best from their worst and their prices and specs do not always match expectations.
So, let's keep the air moving, boys and girls.
FWIW I worked with a Hot Isostatic Press for almost three years, an Autoclave water cooled pressure vessel electrically heated to produce micrograin carbide cutting tool bits.
Pure Argon gas was pumped in then heated. At 1336 degrees C 20,000 PSI (i forget the Bar). Magnetically powered internal fans. The lid weighed about 1200 lbs, was on a pneumatic ram, thread was a one inch steel cable.
Original containers were a steel bucket assembly lol at 2600 degrees F three quarter inch wall steel pots "belled" out. Went to graphite.
Know a little ..
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a b à CPUs
March 15, 2011 4:02:32 AM

^+1 nice post

Knowledge good
Experience is better

I find that visualizing and even sketching out your case
and thinking logically how air flows through the case
helps me.

Things like ram with good heat spreaders
and northbridge (if you have one)
having a good heatsink
and even where you physically place the tower
(inside a compartment of a workstation desk is BAD)
are all important

and I am not any kind of engineer but
saying that a PSU reaches approximatly 40w heat dissipationd
well I think of touching 60w bulbs that have
been running for a day or two and that
to me is pretty hot to have inside of a case

also people neglect thinking about their
hard drive temps since it it a mechanical
device it is most prone to failure

there are options like 5 1/2 bay cooling solutions
along with PCI slot coolers that can be very effective

I have had a 11 fan workstation/server case which was
very effective (needed because of Dual Netburst P4 Xeons at 3.2)
but could of been used for small windtunnel experiments LOL
Did heat the room nice in winter...
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March 15, 2011 11:50:32 AM

Server psu run hotter less efficent. AT idle most PSU dissipate a lot less than 60 watts and use passive airflow and heat sinks. Think like 30 0R 40 watt thru half a dozen sheets of Aluminum foill
Otherwise quite right
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a b à CPUs
March 15, 2011 4:57:07 PM

thank you walterm

I still deal with alot of older towers
not much newer than core2duos

I still think when it comes to cooling too many people neglect
their hard drives and psu's

My core2duo OCd idles at about 27c in a 20c room
while my hd is about 35c on average

so my hard drive is generating more heat than my overclocked cpu

you dont see alot of focus on hd cooling but when you have towers
with 1 primary OS drive and 2 hd raid 0 setups it starts to become
critical

all the focus is on cpus and video cards

when it comes to considering cooling more people
have to think about HDs and PSUs

also be very careful of creating "dead spots" in case
where the air just swirls and sits over a component

I like to take a piece of paper and place over intakes
and over exhausts just to see how hard the air is flowing

would be cool to have transparent case and use smoke to see flow
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March 15, 2011 7:35:45 PM

Could probably tape a piece of 1/8 inch tuffac or equivalent in place of a side cover just to see. I 've thought of it.
I may get one of the fancy fan speed temperature probe monitors.
My thoughts after WAY too much fiddling is buy a decently designed case, add or change fans as needed.Course that leaves what to do with the antique collection/ lol / was recently given a 478 computer that needs psu, hard drive, ram and has some bulged caps.

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a b à CPUs
March 15, 2011 8:00:29 PM

not a bad idea
just cover side of case with a clear plastic
like a heavy saran wrap and make sure is tight
and then use a smoker that is used in HVAC

If I am ever that bored I might try that LOL
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a c 112 à CPUs
March 16, 2011 6:47:30 AM

the reason peeps tend not to bother with cooling individual hdds is that most of the time the hdd enclosure has a fan in front of it. i know virtualy every case i have owned has since 1989 mostly 80mm fans up to 2002 and when i got a case that just relied on the psu to exhaust the system i always added a fan in the front and 1 at the back even if i had to jerry rig it

even resorting to the above to keep my old am2 cool.
the basic premis was to go from the fig on the left to the 1 on the right by balancing the cfm

and this was the end result. ugly yes, but very effective. and did me proud for the six months i kept it b4 selling it...

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a b à CPUs
March 17, 2011 10:45:51 PM

^+1 Nice work

I got to find a way to make a floppy drive slot (3 1/2 inch ?)
into a fan setup
I made my own 5 1/4 empty DVD drive bay Cooler on my old tower
but it is tougher with floppy bay
(BTW why was there a floppy bay
empty on a Core2Duo computer? Media card reader maybe?)

The thing is I want to do it with scrap parts from around my workshop
and only have standard fans laying around
Maybe a small duct shroud from an old Dell might work
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March 21, 2011 1:33:15 AM

I got some old hard drive coolers from the clearance rack at a local computer store. Three 40mm fans across (5 1/4 slot) and a heat sink for the hard drive. I'll try one without heatsink in one of my old cases, la la lalala..
For 3 1/2 need a duct,and/or a squirrel cage fan, maybe a laptop cooler?
Studied engineering, drOpped out in 69 after two years (hung around two more), like tools better.
Some engineering is elegant, some is the best comprise at a given cost, some is constant revisions as the target changes, oh yes.. And some is a cumlative battle to solve a problem a little at a time... "hammer time" !!
Basically modern cases have the problem well in hand.. easy answer raise the case "feet" add fan to case bottom and side.
Shoot, I bought a pair of Antec SLK 1650 white/biege with power suplies from new old stock [original sealed cases ] and don't know what to do with them. Or whether to trust the psu caps.
Research first... ah, the fun begins ..


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a b à CPUs
March 21, 2011 5:38:51 AM

I usually buy business class OEM towers (usually Dell Optiplex and Precisions)
and mod them pretty heavily.
If you look more info under my avatar and read my configuration
you'll see how I did up a Optiplex 745
I have to keep overhead low so buying surplus liquidation off lease towers
works for me.
Kind of fun making them do things that the factory never had planned :) 

hard to run across right fan for floppy bay cooler
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March 21, 2011 11:01:06 AM

Defnitely.
Started out "learning" about a year ago. Aquired four old Compaq/HP and one eMachines towers. Will use them and the Antecs.
Would love to put Sandy Bridge low end in Antecs.
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a b à CPUs
March 21, 2011 12:36:42 PM

SB is of course awesome
but i am usually a generation or two behind the latest tech

I remember when a vcr cost $500 USD and basic DVD players cost
$250 so I have trouble with buying brand new electronics

I was a Radio Shack manager for years and learned that buying
used electronics was the way to go.

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March 21, 2011 3:52:50 PM

Can I please ask if that is a curtain in the picture?

If so is there a radiator behind it?

If you do install a fan in the bottom put you PC on a table, with the electric fields inside it, it will be come a hoover.

Also can you rotate your CPU heat sink? It is either drawing air from your graphics card which is already hot, or drawing air from your PSU, again already warm.

The random fan mounted on a bracket needs to go as this will only be causing turbulence.

Turn you CPU cooler to face the two fans at the back of the case, so that it pushes hot air into them and make sure they are drawing air out of the case. Problem solved.

After writing this it would seem the problem has been resolved - posting anyway :D 
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a c 112 à CPUs
March 23, 2011 5:04:16 PM

lol yes m8 its a curtain and no there was no radiator near it... thats actually my bench legs....

the cpu cooler would only go on vertically. i made the choice of blowing down as the front upper fan made a huge difference in the air temp at the top of the case.
the air flow diagram was pretty complex when i finished but it was bettter to have slighly warmed air from the top of the case than hot air from the gfx card.

although the radiator on the gfx card was passive and would throw out 100'c easily when i jerry riged that 2000-5000rpm 60mm cpu fan on to it the temps plumited to 57'c max on the cpu (sparkle really did make an effective cooler when it was fanned)

underneath the gfx card there is another 90mm fan blowing out the back through the expansion slots.

yeah there were a lot of eddies in the air flow but during testing they all migrated to the back of the case, i used a cane with some silk ribbon attached to judge airflow in most of the case, watching the silk flap vigorously till it snapped flat and repeated. i may be more idiot than genius but they say idiots can be ingenious lol...

my max cpu temp was 52'c may max gpu was 57'c which although not a huge drop in cpu temps there was a huge drop on the gpu temps over 40 degrees so yeat i was happy with the end result...
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