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Intercepting of decloaking Ship

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Anonymous
August 7, 2004 3:42:31 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vga-planets (More info?)

Hiho

Did anyone in the recent Times encountered something like 'cloaking one Turn
and decloaking the other and get shot down the same turn due 'intercept' in
deep space ?????



--
www.tshq.de ---- German Ressource for Tholian Strategies
Anonymous
August 8, 2004 12:44:07 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vga-planets (More info?)

> Did anyone in the recent Times encountered something like 'cloaking one Turn
> and decloaking the other and get shot down the same turn due 'intercept' in
> deep space ?????

Dunno if anyone else understood this, but i didn't ;) 

What exactly is it that thrills you and under which host version ?

- Fela
Anonymous
August 8, 2004 1:36:35 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vga-planets (More info?)

Op 2004-08-07, Sascha Rambeaud schreef <fela@Mathematik.Uni-Marburg.de>:
>
>
>> Did anyone in the recent Times encountered something like 'cloaking one Turn
>> and decloaking the other and get shot down the same turn due 'intercept' in
>> deep space ?????
>
> Dunno if anyone else understood this, but i didn't ;) 
>
> What exactly is it that thrills you and under which host version ?

I think I understood it. :) 

Turn 1: Ship is cloaked. So it is unvisible to other races.

Turn 2: Ship is decloaked (probably has a different mission) moves to
deep space (voluntarily?) and is shot down by an interceptor. How
could that interceptor set his intercept mission, as he couldn't see
the ship last turn.

My question would be: how do you know that it was really intercepted?
Couldn't it have been a coincidence that these two ships ended up in
the same position? Maybe it is a natural position in the middle of two
or more planets. Or the enemy saw one of your ships at that point some
time ago and decided to take a chance.

--
Maurits van Rees | planets.maurits@xs4all.nl
http://maurits.vanrees.org/ [Dutch/Nederlands]
"The question of whether computers can think is like the question of
whether submarines can swim." - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
Related resources
Can't find your answer ? Ask !
Anonymous
August 8, 2004 4:41:00 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vga-planets (More info?)

Sascha Rambeaud wrote:

>> Did anyone in the recent Times encountered something like 'cloaking
>> one Turn and decloaking the other and get shot down the same turn
>> due 'intercept' in deep space ?????

> Dunno if anyone else understood this, but i didn't ;) 

I suppose his questions is:
"Can an once valid intercept-mission survive a turn
where the target is cloaked?"

That way one could set an "intercept" on a cloaker the turn it is
visible. Usually cloakers will use their cloaking device again. The
"intercepting" ship now keeps waiting for the cloaker to de-cloak in
deep space again.

I *guess*, phost removes such blind intercept missions.
But:

I don t know the answers,
you should run a test.
No need here for dancers,
so now I should rest.


Good night,
Thomas
Anonymous
August 8, 2004 5:07:28 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vga-planets (More info?)

* Maurits van Rees <planets.maurits@xs4all.nl> wrote:

> Couldn't it have been a coincidence that these two ships ended up in
> the same position?

Or maybe the ship wasn't cloaked.

Regards, Heiko
Anonymous
August 8, 2004 2:03:55 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vga-planets (More info?)

Op 2004-08-08, Andreas Huck schreef <blaaaaaaaa@t-online.de>:
> Well. i found the Solution for myself too. Looks like ther should be a new
> Feature implemented in VPA:
>
>
> Winplan 3.52.023
>
> 1st. [this is the thing it was about]
>
> New: You are now allowed enter the ID number of a ship you can not see but
> want to intercept. It might work or it might not work, it all depends on the
> host version, host config settings and how far away the object is.

It's a bug, not a feature. Or at least an unwanted feature. ;-) It
reduces the value of cloakers too much.

I consider every host or phost version that supports this to be buggy.

--
Maurits van Rees | planets.maurits@xs4all.nl
http://maurits.vanrees.org/ [Dutch/Nederlands]
"The question of whether computers can think is like the question of
whether submarines can swim." - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
Anonymous
August 8, 2004 2:40:39 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vga-planets (More info?)

> > Winplan 3.52.023
> >
> > 1st. [this is the thing it was about]
> >
> > New: You are now allowed enter the ID number of a ship you can not see
but
> > want to intercept. It might work or it might not work, it all depends on
the
> > host version, host config settings and how far away the object is.
>
> It's a bug, not a feature. Or at least an unwanted feature. ;-) It
> reduces the value of cloakers too much.
>
> I consider every host or phost version that supports this to be buggy.


Hehe. i tried my best to state my opinion to T.Wisseman that its a BAD
feature and
(in my opinion) a Bug. He replied:
-----------------------------------------------
You can only intercept a cloaked ship like that, if you know the ID number
of the ship. If you are set to intercept a ship of one exact ID number then
that is a very special event. I do not think this is cheating or even a bad
thing.

If the host allows it it is NOT cheating.

If it is a bad thing host needs to be changed to stop it.

Tim
----------------------------------------------
This is a feature what totally blocks off the blink-sweeping, loki-moving
and whatever.
a disadvantage to the cloakers. gosh, peoples, this feature EXISTS till
2001. and noone ever
noticed except a specific sort of Players who used it and never told
anyone.....

anyway. its no longer upon me to mention this to tim. i've done my best even
if
using this would HARDEN my way of playing my favour race (anyone else
wanna blinksweep in my webmines ? har)
Anonymous
August 8, 2004 3:08:18 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vga-planets (More info?)

"Heiko Schlenker" <hschlen@gmx.de> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:slrnchao5g.4o2.hschlen@humbert.ddns.org...
> * Maurits van Rees <planets.maurits@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>
> > Couldn't it have been a coincidence that these two ships ended up in
> > the same position?
>
> Or maybe the ship wasn't cloaked.
>

or...
[snip]
Winplan 3.52.023

New: You are now allowed enter the ID number of a ship you can not see but
want to intercept. It might work or it might not work, it all depends on the
host version, host config settings and how far away the object is.

www.vgaplanets.com/fixes.htm
[snap]

@streu and other vpa developer: Can this be supported in VPA too? I do not
want to use winplan or write an own tool for using this feature.

ciao, harry
Anonymous
August 8, 2004 3:08:19 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vga-planets (More info?)

Ah thx for writing da same stuff again its a bit difficult if I write stuff
in here (g)

> or...
> [snip]
> Winplan 3.52.023
>
> New: You are now allowed enter the ID number of a ship you can not see but
> want to intercept. It might work or it might not work, it all depends on
the
> host version, host config settings and how far away the object is.


> @streu and other vpa developer: Can this be supported in VPA too? I do not
> want to use winplan or write an own tool for using this feature.

as i said.

Damn we shall all look a bit better if things get updated (looo) damn.
wer're blind in the dark it seems...

Winplan 3.52.025: Update
Released Aug 5th, 2001

okay. anyone noticed this date here ?
Anonymous
August 8, 2004 4:16:52 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vga-planets (More info?)

Andreas Huck wrote:
> Well. i found the Solution for myself too. Looks like ther should be a new
> Feature implemented in VPA:
>
>
> Winplan 3.52.023

Winplan versions are irrelevant. Host version is interesting.

(Even if you know I'm using Winplan 3.51, you cannot know that I do not
use a hex editor to hack my ship.dat file.)

> 1st. [this is the thing it was about]
>
> New: You are now allowed enter the ID number of a ship you can not see but
> want to intercept. It might work or it might not work, it all depends on the
> host version, host config settings and how far away the object is.
>
> ----------------------------------
> This destroys all the Tactics with the blinking /sweeping/decloaking etc. if
> i would have known this earlyer on then....

The trick has always been there. Winplan just did not allow you to use
it. It's not the only thing which Winplan does not allow you to do. With
PCC, for example, you could always enter the M.I.T. numbers by hand: M
for mission, # for extended mission, enter 7, <id>, 0 to intercept ship
<id>. From the command line, use a command such as
cc /rk with ship(<interceptee>) do setmission 7, <interceptor>

The problem is that certain host versions did allow you to intercept
everything which happens to be within 200 ly, cloaked or not. Worse yet,
older host versions (3.00 for example) send you visual scans (!) for
cloaked ships in scan range, which Winplan .025 happily displays (they
are encoded the same way as FF allies. planets.exe does not display
them, but Winplan, VPA, PCC and EV do). Just look back in this group's
archive for a utility called PlanMap.

Summarized: there always has been a rule ("you cannot intercept ships
you don't see"), but Host was not enforcing it. Newest host versions
claim to enforce it (Host .030), I don't know how exactly it is
implemented, though. PHost also enforces it by keeping track of what
ships it sent you with your last RST.

This cheat block also prevented people from sharing their RSTs and
intercepting each other's ships. This lead to the introduction of the
"VPA extra features" switch. When you look into someone else's RST -
using VPA or something else, such as PCC or EV -, you'll see ships but
Host does not know you see them. With VPA extra features enabled, you
can therefore again intercept everything, under the assumption that if
you see it, you must have gotten it from an allied RST. It also lead to
the introduction of FF allies, which are a legal way to get someone else
see your ships. When you use this, Host knows that you are allied with
someone else, he knows that you see their ships, so you can safely
intercept them.

The new feature in Winplan was just to complement the "VPA extra
features" switch. With VPAEF enabled, VPA players can intercept
everything they can think of, so the same thing was allowed to Winplan
players, too.


Stefan
Anonymous
August 8, 2004 4:16:53 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vga-planets (More info?)

"Stefan Reuther" <stefan.news@arcor.de> wrote in message
news:cf55jk.1vc.1@stefan.msgid.phost.de...
> Andreas Huck wrote:
> > Well. i found the Solution for myself too. Looks like ther should be a
new
> > Feature implemented in VPA:
> >
> >
> > Winplan 3.52.023
>
> Winplan versions are irrelevant. Host version is interesting.
>
> (Even if you know I'm using Winplan 3.51, you cannot know that I do not
> use a hex editor to hack my ship.dat file.)
>
> > 1st. [this is the thing it was about]
> >
> > New: You are now allowed enter the ID number of a ship you can not see
but
> > want to intercept. It might work or it might not work, it all depends on
the
> > host version, host config settings and how far away the object is.
> >

[snipped]

In WinPlan how do you set this if he won't allow you to use intercept ship x
unless you see it. You can enter a ship number but it just goes blank when
you set the mission if it doesn't see it.

I am missing something here.

--

Regards,
Merlyn
Anonymous
August 8, 2004 7:39:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vga-planets (More info?)

Hiho

> This cheat block also prevented people from sharing their RSTs and
> intercepting each other's ships. This lead to the introduction of the
> "VPA extra features" switch. When you look into someone else's RST -
> using VPA or something else, such as PCC or EV -, you'll see ships but
> Host does not know you see them. With VPA extra features enabled, you
> can therefore again intercept everything, under the assumption that if
> you see it, you must have gotten it from an allied RST. It also lead to
> the introduction of FF allies, which are a legal way to get someone else
> see your ships. When you use this, Host knows that you are allied with
> someone else, he knows that you see their ships, so you can safely
> intercept them.

Wether the Turning on or off of the 'VPA-Extra features' makes any
difference in behaving of intercept
executed. in this case the switch has a (bet?) more homoeopathic function.
if you believe strong enough
then it may work ? (g) well this discussion runs elsewhere too and everyone
knows everything
but noone can tell whats this all about. maybe this switch was implemented
to stare em off ?

Currently it runs this way:

(to give merlin too an explanation)

1st definition:

as ship not visible is a ship what:

is not seen by me due its sucessfully cloaked or in orbit of a planet i or
any ally of me owns.
no data is available of that ship except historical data. (ie, vpa database
or just sheer knowledge that its THERE)

if i know there's a ship: even if its hidden according upwards stated rules:
then i use my 3rd party program
to set mission to intercept and add the id-number: (its said that in winplan
this works too ?)

it works. whatever happens, the ship gets intercepted if its:

- decloaks and fly to a orbit you cannot see
- decloaks and fly some distance in deepspace
- comes out of orbit of unowned planet and flies to another unowned
- damn the hell. as long as this ship decloaks (the same turn) or whatever
it GETS intercepted.
wether its seen or not.

the only way to prevent being intercepted is: stay cloaked...

##########vpa extra features are turned off #####################

and the rst and the host-data were not available. so nowhere
the host-programm could know wether i see the ship nor see it.

> The new feature in Winplan was just to complement the "VPA extra
> features" switch. With VPAEF enabled, VPA players can intercept
> everything they can think of, so the same thing was allowed to Winplan
> players, too.
>
>
> Stefan
>
August 12, 2004 2:44:45 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vga-planets (More info?)

If he is fighting The Q this is natural behaviour. Q runs in auxhost1 or
so - after the cloaking device is deactivated (client side). It will see
a decloaked ship and try to kill it.

I have found several cloakers of mine getting blasted by Q controlled
ships before I figured that out.


--
Cheers!

Stefan

P.S: Please remove the _'s from my mail address if you want to contact
me.
Anonymous
August 17, 2004 3:14:34 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vga-planets (More info?)

Andreas Huck wrote:

>Winplan 3.52.023
>1st. [this is the thing it was about]
>New: You are now allowed enter the ID number of a ship you can not see but
>want to intercept. It might work or it might not work, it all depends on the
>host version, host config settings and how far away the object is.
This feature existed in only that version. That, and the fact that the
version can't be found anywhere anymore, suggest to me that Tim doesn't
support the feature anymore. If third party clients start supporting this
thing, then Tim will get complains to probably allow it again with Winplan,
or prevent it with host. And the latter I think might not be so easy to
implement, and I'm not so sure how keen Tim is making new Winplan versions.

Other points of intrest:
When a ship cloaks and someone tried to intercept it, the intercept will be
lost, even at warp 0.
Also there is, or at least was, a bug where if you intercepted a ship of
yours that was decloaking the same turn, the intercept failed because host
incorrectly thought that the ship was still cloaked.
With modern hosts(post VPA extra features), when you first intercept a ship
that moves to a planet where you can't see and you don't reach it that
turn, next turn the intercept will be lost even if the ship moves back into
deep space or to a planet where you can see it. I think this happens
always, even with VPA extra features on. With older hosts, the intercept
would continue.
Anonymous
September 14, 2004 6:40:31 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vga-planets (More info?)

If you were decloaked and an enemy ship was intercepting you, then next turn
you cloaked but he did not touch his ship's mission, on the third turn when
you decloaked he may still have interecepted you.......

may


you'd need to verify that

I think i remember something about ships interecepting cloaked ships.....?





"Andreas Huck" <blaaaaaaaa@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:cf2dma$n7k$07$1@news.t-online.com...
> Hiho
>
> Did anyone in the recent Times encountered something like 'cloaking one
Turn
> and decloaking the other and get shot down the same turn due 'intercept'
in
> deep space ?????
>
>
>
> --
> www.tshq.de ---- German Ressource for Tholian Strategies
>
>
Anonymous
September 14, 2004 6:40:32 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.vga-planets (More info?)

> you'd need to verify that
>
> I think i remember something about ships interecepting cloaked ships.....?

veryfied this already. works. hase something to do with 'vpa-extra-features'
only being a homoeopathic switch in hconfig ....



> "Andreas Huck" <blaaaaaaaa@t-online.de> wrote in message
> news:cf2dma$n7k$07$1@news.t-online.com...
> > Hiho
> >
> > Did anyone in the recent Times encountered something like 'cloaking one
> Turn
> > and decloaking the other and get shot down the same turn due 'intercept'
> in
> > deep space ?????
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > www.tshq.de ---- German Ressource for Tholian Strategies
> >
> >
>
>
!