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Music Machine

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December 19, 2010 3:51:11 PM

Hi Gents,

Must admit that I am out of touch with whats good and bad, a long time since I upgraded! My present sys, somewhat old but still serving me well is an overclocked XP2500M Tower, 2 soundcard, 2g ram running XP.
So what am I looking for?
The above had a Volcano(?) cooler, big mistake to noisy for music machine, so am not interested in overclocking in future.
Am currently considering one of the core unlocking Asus AMD mobo's.But which one and what CPU?
Need 2 or 3 pci slots as will probably keep current soundcards I allready have. One thing of note is that each card uses 2 slots in tower case (external connectivity) so this may be an issue.
Win XP will still be used as software is 32bit, some with 16bit installers. Onboard graphics fine (with own mem if poss) providing it supports twin monitors. Would 3gb ram be ok or should it be 2 x matched pairs (4gb)?
Basically, my old machine is showing its age and I need a new one to replace it. Dosnt have to be a 'gamer' but a 'worker'! Stable, and best bang for buck.

Would really appreciate your thoughts guys,

Billy

More about : music machine

December 19, 2010 3:56:43 PM

Hmm unlocking + stable is a bonus not a given so there is an element of gambing with that hehe If u live near a microcenter this is a $99 560BE +MSI 785GM-P45 that *may* fulfill your unlocking dreams lol
http://www.microcenter.com/specials/promotions/AMDbundl...
i'd really hit 2 x 2 DDR3 given how dirt cheap they have become!
December 19, 2010 4:48:27 PM

"Serving me well...."

So what you really need is exactly what you have, but, with a less noisy cpu cooler?
$25-$35... :) 

You can double your RAM easily, but, a faster cpu and mainboard isn't going to really play your music any 'better'.....

You might be hard pressed to find many modern motherboards with multiple PCI slots with space in between them no less....
Related resources
December 19, 2010 6:18:09 PM

batuchka said:
Hmm unlocking + stable is a bonus not a given so there is an element of gambing with that hehe If u live near a microcenter this is a $99 560BE +MSI 785GM-P45 that *may* fulfill your unlocking dreams lol
http://www.microcenter.com/specials/promotions/AMDbundl...
i'd really hit 2 x 2 DDR3 given how dirt cheap they have become!



Would that be a MSI Mobo to this limey................. are you serious :o  ?
December 19, 2010 6:26:16 PM

mdd1963 said:
"Serving me well...."

So what you really need is exactly what you have, but, with a less noisy cpu cooler?
$25-$35... :) 

You can double your RAM easily, but, a faster cpu and mainboard isn't going to really play your music any 'better'.....

You might be hard pressed to find many modern motherboards with multiple PCI slots with space in between them no less....



What I need is a new machine!!
'You can double your RAM easily, but, a faster cpu and mainboard isn't going to really play your music any 'better'.....'

The point is that I will still be using XP, still a 3gb limit on Ram??
If so would it be better to use the 2 Xmatched pairs?

Play the music better? Meaning?.................

A good workman never blames his tools. Just sometimes they need to be replaced.

Ref slot space. Each soundcard has a daughter board. Not full length just connections to out side world.

Ok then, also silent power supply Corvair?

HDD access speeds(for audio streaming) best value?
As I said, out of touch.
Have I come to the right forum?

Bill


December 19, 2010 6:32:40 PM

muso56 said:
Would that be a MSI Mobo to this limey................. are you serious :o  ?


Dun get what u mean @@
December 19, 2010 7:28:38 PM

Most modern boards have exactly one 'old' PCI slot....

My socket 939/MSI K8Neo4/A64-3500+ has 4 pci slots, ....you want it?? :) 
December 19, 2010 8:49:58 PM

batuchka said:
Dun get what u mean @@


Never, from what I read, considered MSI to be up there in the same league
as Gigabyte or Asus, maybe I'm wrong. I am open to any suggestions, once we have sorted out mobo and chip can move on to HDD, Ram and Px supply!

Tax here in the UK goes up Jan 1st, got to get a move one!
Bill
December 19, 2010 11:28:34 PM

MSI is quite up to playing equally with Asus and Gigabyte, IMO....they have been for at least 5-6 years.

I'd opt for the fastest quad core socket 1156 i5 or i7 cpu you can afford.
December 20, 2010 8:07:00 AM

muso56 said:
Never, from what I read, considered MSI to be up there in the same league
as Gigabyte or Asus, maybe I'm wrong. I am open to any suggestions, once we have sorted out mobo and chip can move on to HDD, Ram and Px supply!

Tax here in the UK goes up Jan 1st, got to get a move one!
Bill


Well to your credit u were honest in saying u were out of touch lol Never ever get mixed up with the fanbois Brand A > B nonsense : all/any brand makes both gems and lemons at various price points :lol: 
December 20, 2010 10:41:59 AM

mdd1963 said:
MSI is quite up to playing equally with Asus and Gigabyte, IMO....they have been for at least 5-6 years.

I'd opt for the fastest quad core socket 1156 i5 or i7 cpu you can afford.



Hi mdd,
Ah well, my present sys is older than 5-6yrs. An Elite Ks75a mobo, it started at 800mz, then put a 1400mz in and finally the XP2500M.

'I'd opt for the fastest quad core socket 1156 i5 or i7 cpu you can afford'

So why are some gamers using unlocked dual core AM3's? Do not understand. Not overclocked as such is it?
December 20, 2010 10:43:47 AM

batuchka said:
Well to your credit u were honest in saying u were out of touch lol Never ever get mixed up with the fanbois Brand A > B nonsense : all/any brand makes both gems and lemons at various price points :lol: 



I'm all ears, well eyes. So tell me, which ones?
bill
December 20, 2010 11:06:10 AM

If u are very keen on an unlocking adventure most 785G/SB710 mobos could cut it and contrary to popular belief, Asus weren't pioneers in this. Back in days of AM2+/DDR2 the 'lesser' lights like Asrock and Biostar were unlocking Heka 710/720Be X3 and pioneer unlockers back in '08 lol Asus did however blow their trumpet loudest come the 800 series, resulting in fancy terms and in some models unreasonable pricing!

The BIOS also play a major role so do read up on owners thread on how good BIOS support/updates churned out to provide improved unlock/stability or general ironing out of kinks of mobo
December 20, 2010 12:00:32 PM

batuchka said:
If u are very keen on an unlocking adventure most 785G/SB710 mobos could cut it and contrary to popular belief, Asus weren't pioneers in this. Back in days of AM2+/DDR2 the 'lesser' lights like Asrock and Biostar were unlocking Heka 710/720Be X3 and pioneer unlockers back in '08 lol Asus did however blow their trumpet loudest come the 800 series, resulting in fancy terms and in some models unreasonable pricing!

The BIOS also play a major role so do read up on owners thread on how good BIOS support/updates churned out to provide improved unlock/stability or general ironing out of kinks of mobo


Hi,
Ok, is it worth looking at unlocking options I.e. performance wise? Or leave well alone for better stability? From what I have read lately, guys are getting good results from unlocked asus boards.

Have a look at this one
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/246637

Ok at the cheaper end but could do the job.

Now my old machine still has a lot going for it that I am having probs replicating in a new pc. Each of the soundcard daughterboards have dedicated midi in/outs plus a midi header of the mobo giving me 3 in all. Nice from a muso perspective. Also each soundcard is connected to each other via spdif, again via the daughter boards.

Now it might seem a backward step putting a pci vid card in, but my current
system has dual monitors and the above board does not support this with its onboard graphics. So might do that and use the pciX for a new soundcard.

Bill
December 21, 2010 1:19:15 AM

Negative - i would rate any of these chipsets

740G
690G
GF 7XXX
NForce 5xx/6xx

far inferior than any entry level AM2+ out in 2008 due to

a. HT Limitation when paired with any AM2+/AM3 chip
b. Still stuck on PCIe gen 1.0/1.1, true AM2+ had migrated to PCIe gen 2.0 as of 2008

Gigabyte NForce 630a
http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3497#ov
Quote:
* If you install AMD AM3 CPU on this motherboard, the system bus speed will downgrade from HT3.0 (5200MT/s) to HT1.0 (2000 MT/s) spec; however, the frequency of AM3 CPU will not be impacted. Please refer "CPU Support List" for more information.


MSI 740GTM-P23
http://www.msi.com/index.php?func=proddesc&maincat_no=1&cat2_no=171&prod_no=1917
Quote:

Hyper Transport Bus

• HyperTransport 1.0 supporting speed up to 1000MT/s

Slots

• 1 PCI Express x16 slot with x16 operation (PCI Express Bus SPEC V1.0 compliant)


In fact Nvidia chipsets either have no Advanced Clock Calibration (ACC) or have their own implementation. For a cheap unlocker:

http://www.ebuyer.com/product/181968

Post your AMD unlock pass/fail here! v. 2.0 + How to unlock
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1036521190

Quote:
Processor: X2 560BE
Unlock pass or fail: Pass 4cores
Motherboard: Asus M4A78LT-M LE
CPU Cooler: Scythe Ninja 2
Voltage: stock 1.24v

---ADDITIONAL INFORMATION---
CPU Stepping: C3
BIOS Version: 0704
Stability test application(s) used: IBT
Amount of time passed in stability app: 40 passes on high
Any other pertinent info: CACAC AC 1032EPMW

December 21, 2010 6:11:37 PM

Hi batuchka,
First off, a big thanks for you advice, understanding and patience!

Ok, thinking either of these 2:

http://www.ebuyer.com/product/236462

http://www.ebuyer.com/product/181968

Not sure which one yet, depends on sound/vidcard config

CPU, either

http://www.ebuyer.com/product/235423 (unlocked) or

http://www.ebuyer.com/product/242140

I have to ask, for the difference of $40, is it worth the hastle of unlocking??

A few words advice on ram speed would be appreciated. DDR3 yes but what speed? 1333mz?


To change the subject, know anything about HDD's?!

Ive picked this one out
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/173804


Are you aware of any partitioning/formating issues using WinXP with a drive of this size??

i.e. will Win XP recognise it?

Again, many thanks for your help which I really appreciate,
Willy
December 22, 2010 4:20:39 AM

1. Those are 2 mobos in very diff price points - so it's your call but the 760G would be fine if u do not need USB/SATA 3.0

2. Consider AthlonII X3 as well?

3. Thats a good pick for hdd and no issues XP and partitioning

Yep u are welcomed ^^
December 22, 2010 6:07:58 PM

batuchka said:
1. Those are 2 mobos in very diff price points - so it's your call but the 760G would be fine if u do not need USB/SATA 3.0

2. Consider AthlonII X3 as well?

3. Thats a good pick for hdd and no issues XP and partitioning

Yep u are welcomed ^^


1. You right with your observation of the mobo's. Busy thinking of sound/vidcard config did not give other aspects a thought. Have decided to go with the 880G for reasons you stated and the following. As this board supports phenom 125w x6 (760G only 95w), by placing a lower range cpu in now (AM3 x2 3.2 ghz) can update this in a year or 2 when phenom falls down the pecking order. You agree??. It will still be a considerable upgrade from my present system.Also Usb is relevent, with no onboard Midi thesedays have to use USB.

2. The Athlon 3's from my supplier have lower cache than the 2's. So do not know.

Can I ask again, dio I go for the higher speed ram, 1666 (?) ?

Cheers again,

Willy
December 23, 2010 4:43:57 AM

1. There are also 125W TDP +X6 760G/785G
2. No extreme OC 1600 or 1333 would suffice
December 27, 2010 8:21:59 AM

Hi Batuchka,

Just a quick line to thank you for all your help. Confident enough to go solo now with the setup discussed.
Cheers.
December 28, 2010 9:41:14 AM

Yep happy shopping and happy new year in advance ^^
December 28, 2010 5:54:41 PM

As you've probably discovered, a DAW doesn't necessarily need a state-of-the-art machine. I've been using an Athlon64 3000 with 1 1/2 gb ram for years (linux and Ardour) and it can cope with multi-track audio recording & playback just fine. I can even add in a small number of software effects and synths before it starts to run out of steam.

So a modern dual core will cope very well with a modest amount of software FX, software synths and samplers. If you think you'll need to use large numbers of FX & soft synths etc three or four cores should be better but the details will depend on the software you're using.

A good budget system would be an Athlon II X3, 4gb of ram and a 880g board (supports dual monitors). I don't think you'll need anything more powerful than that. I've just ordered the same (except for an older 760g mobo) for myself for a new DAW build.

Quiet components are important for a DAW. Seasonic PSUs, Samsung HDDs, and Scythe coolers have also worked well for me. Look for anything with a 120mm fan and a good review. In fact the noisiest part of my current set up is a cheap case with thin metal sheeting which resonates with a droning sound. Don't skimp on the case...
!