Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

Nvidia vs. AMD (ATI) Who is playing catch-up?

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
Share
a b U Graphics card
October 22, 2010 7:20:46 PM

So, with the current release of the 68x0 series AMD Barts cards, one has to wonder, who is indeed playing catch-up to the other or perhaps one could call it a fairly even match right now. You guys/gals be the judge, and PLEASE, no flame wars, I'm trying to spark interest and honest (fact-based) opinions.
a c 235 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
October 22, 2010 7:27:47 PM

Nvidia still has a 3:2 lead in the dedicated video card market, its been obvious they are chasing ATI since the launch of the 5xxx series. the 6xxxx series launching with the 6850 & 6870 is an obvious target towards Nvidia best current cards, the GTX 460's.

so in the war, Nvidia is still around and has won more then they have lost. in the recent battles, they have been getting their butt kicked.

if you are fan of Nvidia or ATI, you need to realize that good cards from both sides helps consumers. otherwise you have a repeat of Nvidia re-branding the 8800GT and 8800GTS year after year.
m
0
l
a b U Graphics card
October 22, 2010 7:30:22 PM

I'll start with my opinion.

Looks to me that both are neck-and-neck right now. My reasoning is that since AMD released the 5xxx series first with support for Tess/DX11/etc, Nvidia fired right back with their DX11 counterparts which performed a little better (Keeping in mind the power/heat concerns with the GTX 470/480).

That being said, it looks to me that AMD (ATI) has come a long way since their 3xxx series and have un-stilled Nvidia's waters and while AMD was ahead in releasing Tess/DX11/etc, Nvidia is still the performance king in comparison (single GPU cards)

Personally i am all for it, price drops are finally happening on a large scale since AMD released the 68x0 cards and the consumers are pleased.

Looking forward to GTX 5xx series release.
m
0
l
Related resources
a c 376 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
October 22, 2010 7:31:14 PM

The new cards have left Nvidia needing to catch up but these are just the mid-range cards of the series.
m
0
l
a b U Graphics card
October 22, 2010 7:31:19 PM

gtx 470 - 529mm2 salvage part
6870 - 255mm2 full part

gtx 460 1gb - 368mm2 full part
6850 - 255mm2 salvage part

You can see AMD has a huge lead on die size and power draw at the same performance level. Considering how godawful bad the 480 and 470 were, the 460 is almost like a miracle for Nvidia.

It's not close but it could have been a lot worse.
m
0
l
October 22, 2010 7:31:51 PM

I would say nVidia is playing catch up. While the 6870 is about on par with a 470 in terms of performance (Most game instances won't notice a difference), the 6870 uses far less power.

In a couple of months, AMD will launch higher end cards that I think will definately outperform anything nVidia has to offer.
m
0
l
a b U Graphics card
October 22, 2010 7:32:53 PM

ct1615 said:
if you are fan of Nvidia or ATI, you need to realize that good cards from both sides helps consumers. otherwise you have a repeat of Nvidia re-branding the 8800GT and 8800GTS year after year.



Couldn't have said it better myself.
m
0
l
a b U Graphics card
October 22, 2010 7:40:11 PM

Quote:
Do us a favor donot post in such thread.Your stupid comments always sparks flame war.And mods locks it.


Just gonna report all of your constant attacks on me now, enjoy the ban that is surely coming your way kid.
m
0
l
a b U Graphics card
October 22, 2010 7:41:17 PM

jyjjy said:
The new cards have left Nvidia needing to catch up but these are just the mid-range cards of the series.

True, but i suspect that Nvidia is going to just answer back with 5xx series which will be a stretch better than 470/480 in terms of power/heat as well as being slightly better than the 6xxx flagships...
m
0
l
a b U Graphics card
October 22, 2010 7:44:27 PM

Quote:
Do us a favor donot post in such thread.Your stupid comments always sparks flame war.And mods locks it.


1 and only warning!
m
0
l
a b U Graphics card
October 22, 2010 7:45:38 PM

OK, 20 minutes and 9 posts into it and already it's a heated discussion. PLEASE stop attacking one-another and flame-warring. I will get this thread closed if it proceeds.
m
0
l
a b U Graphics card
October 22, 2010 7:47:01 PM

NVidia are for several reasons. The first and foremost is that ATI are setting the market placing for cards IMO. Nvidia are not getting to choose what they price their cards at, it is more trying to fill the holes of ati.

If they were in the lead I do not think they would be placing their cards at there current levels.

Of course they also have to compete with the cheaper to make ati cards, the heat and power which is becoming more and more prominent even in the high end instead of only mid range and below and also amongst people who frequent forums like this they are struggling with a reputation problem. People expect more from them and do not feel they are delivering.
m
0
l
a b U Graphics card
October 22, 2010 7:49:35 PM

ct1615 said:
if you are fan of Nvidia or ATI, you need to realize that good cards from both sides helps consumers. otherwise you have a repeat of Nvidia re-branding the 8800GT and 8800GTS year after year.


Also, i am not dissing Nvidia for re-branding, if anything, it was ATI's fault that Nvidia was allowed to do this but they finally got it together and crept up on Nvidia's door with the 4xxx series and Nvidia was slow to recognize this.

I would have rebranded as much as i could and raked in the $$$ if i was in the same position as Nvidia at the time.
m
0
l
a b U Graphics card
October 22, 2010 7:50:19 PM

We should be able to have a discussion, without this being hijacked by personal attacks.

If it continues, those people will be removed, and the discussion can continue on without them.
m
0
l
a b U Graphics card
October 22, 2010 7:53:10 PM

ct1615 said:
Nvidia still has a 3:2 lead in the dedicated video card market


I'm going to have to ask for a source. AMD had 42% of the market back in May, I doubt they've lost much if any, especially since you won't be seeing Fermis in many OEM builds.
m
0
l
a c 271 U Graphics card
a c 171 Î Nvidia
a b À AMD
October 22, 2010 7:55:28 PM

eyefinity said:
gtx 470 - 529mm2 salvage part
6870 - 255mm2 full part

gtx 460 1gb - 368mm2 full part
6850 - 255mm2 salvage part

You can see AMD has a huge lead on die size and power draw at the same performance level. Considering how godawful bad the 480 and 470 were, the 460 is almost like a miracle for Nvidia.

It's not close but it could have been a lot worse.


I hate to be the one to point it out but the current 460 is a salvage part not a full one.
m
0
l
a b U Graphics card
October 22, 2010 8:04:28 PM

jonpaul37 said:
True, but i suspect that Nvidia is going to just answer back with 5xx series which will be a stretch better than 470/480 in terms of power/heat as well as being slightly better than the 6xxx flagships...


Well that will depend a lot on the 69xx cards, don't you think? We also haven't heard anything about the 5xx series except names. I think that is pretty up in the air.

As for who is playing catch-up, its a complicated answer.

In the retail market, they seem to be pretty close. The GTX 480 and 5970 are still unmatched respectively, the GTX 460 is still competitive against the 6850, the GTX 470 is still a great card for the money alongside the 6870, and the GTS 450 isn't a terrible card if your on a budget. Also, nVidia still has the full G104 to unleash, the GTX 460 IS a cut-down part. Though I think ATI has an edge, I would still say that they are close.

In the OEM market, I would say ATI has an advantage. Honestly, the only thing that I believe will keep nVidia afloat in the OEM market is their amount of sway with the Manufacturers. However, AMD has much more sway in the graphics world than the processor world, and they are probably getting more and more friendly with manufacturers. That said, if the OEMs want more performance than a GTS 450, then they are basically stuck with AMD since even the GTX 460 uses a lot of power by OEM standards.
m
0
l
a b U Graphics card
October 22, 2010 8:04:55 PM

The problem with market share is it doesn't tell you anything about the real world. A lot of nvidia's market share will be 88xx series cards and derivitives.

If you look at the steam survey and at dx11 which will tell us about what is selling now, nvidia gets stomped.

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/

m
0
l
a b U Graphics card
October 22, 2010 8:08:14 PM

Quote:
I believe techpowerup and steam can be rated as trusted source.
www.techpowerup.com/gpuz/


Not really, how many OEM machine users boot up GPUz? Steam is also a pretty hardcore gamer application.

strangestranger said:
The problem with market share is it doesn't tell you anything about the real world. A lot of nvidia's market share will be 88xx series cards and derivitives.

If you look at the steam survey and at dx11 which will tell us about what is selling now, nvidia gets stomped.

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/


This is a very good point.

Here is a survey from July:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/201007290953...

It accounts for those who do not game.
m
0
l
a b U Graphics card
October 22, 2010 8:16:13 PM

Market share may play a factor here, but at what point does one surpass the other for the entire crown like when Nvidia had 8xxx?

Did Nvidia take their eye off the prize when they turned their focus to FERMI's GPGPU technologies or are they seeing a future in that market? To me, it seems that AMD was able to catch up to Nvidia because of this.
m
0
l
a b U Graphics card
October 22, 2010 8:21:28 PM

Basically it is the same as when nvidia had the entire market to themselves with the 88xx. The difference now is time, it will take time but unless all those 88xx owners replace them with nvidia the market will swing back to ATI in a big way.

Market share as recorded by likes of steam will always lag behind the real world as it only shows a snapshot as it is now. If those people upgrade to ATI it will be another few years before people probably upgrade again. Hell probably will require a new console for it to happen is the state of things.

As it stands now, when the dx10 cards are upgraded, nvidia will lose out.
m
0
l
a b U Graphics card
October 22, 2010 8:21:49 PM

jonpaul37 said:
Market share may play a factor here, but at what point does one surpass the other for the entire crown like when Nvidia had 8xxx?

Did Nvidia take their eye off the prize when they turned their focus to FERMI's GPGPU technologies or are they seeing a future in that market? To me, it seems that AMD was able to catch up to Nvidia because of this.


While it is possible that nVidia are using this architecture as an investment in the future, you could also say that they just plain screwed up. We can't really tell at this point. That said, the ATI 2xxx series' architecture was built around the original DX10 and so it was an investment into the future. Then again, the main problem with with the 2xxx series was that DX10 was changed to favor nVidia architecture at the last minute... :pfff:  People seem to forget that.
m
0
l
a b U Graphics card
October 22, 2010 8:25:15 PM

Well, I would say the main problem with the 2xxx wasn't just nvidia failings and consequent bargaining with microsoft, it was that ATI were in cloud cuckoo land if they thought games were going to adopt dx10 instead of continuing as they were.

Nvidia could have made the same mistake by designing their chip for a market that is a few years away.
m
0
l
a b U Graphics card
October 22, 2010 8:29:02 PM

strangestranger said:
Well, I would say the main problem with the 2xxx wasn't just nvidia failings and consequent bargaining with microsoft, it was that ATI were in cloud cuckoo land if they thought games were going to adopt dx10 instead of continuing as they were.

Nvidia could have made the same mistake by designing their chip for a market that is a few years away.


While that is true, the 2xxx series would have looked a lot better if it wasn't for that. Also, after DX10 was completely castrated, it wasn't really worth much so of course it wasn't adopted.
m
0
l
a b U Graphics card
October 22, 2010 8:29:57 PM

I think i have to agree with AMW & the stranger, looks like Nvidia, with GPGPU, is following the same path that ATI did circa 2xxx/DX10. If that is indeed what you were both saying.

Though, i do hope it doesn't lead to Nvidia falling behind, that could be good for AMD but bad for Nvidia+consumer
m
0
l
a c 235 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
October 22, 2010 8:33:23 PM

AMW1011 said:
I'm going to have to ask for a source. AMD had 42% of the market back in May, I doubt they've lost much if any, especially since you won't be seeing Fermis in many OEM builds.



well if AMD has 40% (roughly) of the dedicated card market like you just stated, then you are confirming Nvidia has 60% of the dedicated card market. so its 6:4 or as i stated above 3:2. AMD, Nvidia, and STEAM have all stated similar type 60/40 split in the dedicated market.
m
0
l
a c 235 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
October 22, 2010 8:35:41 PM

strangestranger said:
The problem with market share is it doesn't tell you anything about the real world. A lot of nvidia's market share will be 88xx series cards and derivitives.

If you look at the steam survey and at dx11 which will tell us about what is selling now, nvidia gets stomped.

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/


thanks for confirming what i just stated above

Nvidia still has a 3:2 lead in the dedicated video card market, its been obvious they are chasing ATI since the launch of the 5xxx series

m
0
l
a b U Graphics card
October 22, 2010 8:38:33 PM

jonpaul37 said:
I think i have to agree with AMW & the stranger, looks like Nvidia, with GPGPU, is following the same path that ATI did circa 2xxx/DX10. If that is indeed what you were both saying.

Though, i do hope it doesn't lead to Nvidia falling behind, that could be good for AMD but bad for Nvidia+consumer


And an argument CAN be made that ATI's gamble did pay off with the 5xxx series, they did kinda have tessellation for 3 gens prior.

ct1615 said:
well if AMD has 40% (roughly) of the dedicated card market like you just stated, then you are confirming Nvidia has 60% of the dedicated card market. so its 6:4 or as i stated above 3:2. AMD, Nvidia, and STEAM have all stated similar type 60/40 split in the dedicated market.


No. The July report had AMD at 45% and nVidia at 55%, which is much closer. We also don't have a current consensus.

ct1615 said:
thanks for confirming what i just stated above

Nvidia still has a 3:2 lead in the dedicated video card market, its been obvious they are chasing ATI since the launch of the 5xxx series


That isn't stated anywhere in there...
m
0
l
a b U Graphics card
October 22, 2010 8:42:32 PM

It doesnt matter who is beating who, or who is "winning".. People buy into the band wagon at no cost.

If someone wants a nVidia then no matter what AMD offers, it terms of performance, power, looks.. etc people stick to what they know..
To be fair, when building computers or reading peoples requests, heat and power are usually the last talking point.. Fact is, who cares if Nvidia make a card which runs at 2000oC?? They have obviously designed the card for them temperatures...

Fact is, in my opinion, my GTX470's from Nvidia are perfect for my system.. So what if AMD 5990 (5890, 5980?? Not sure on the AMD version of a GTX470/480) Is drawing alot less power and has a lower operating temperature? People buy in what they believe in and experiance is key..

Same in any situation, you bought cars from Ford all your driving life, and the service has been exellent, why move to Vauxhall, its taking a risk most people dont like jumping.

I moved from AMD CPU's to Intels, glad i did, but still adiment that AMD are still better in terms of previous support, performance, stability, and general good'ness..
m
0
l
a b U Graphics card
October 22, 2010 8:49:09 PM

reccy said:
It doesnt matter who is beating who, or who is "winning".. People buy into the band wagon at no cost.

If someone wants a nVidia then no matter what AMD offers, it terms of performance, power, looks.. etc people stick to what they know..
To be fair, when building computers or reading peoples requests, heat and power are usually the last talking point.. Fact is, who cares if Nvidia make a card which runs at 2000oC?? They have obviously designed the card for them temperatures...

Fact is, in my opinion, my GTX470's from Nvidia are perfect for my system.. So what if AMD 5990 (5890, 5980?? Not sure on the AMD version of a GTX470/480) Is drawing alot less power and has a lower operating temperature? People buy in what they believe in and experiance is key..

Same in any situation, you bought cars from Ford all your driving life, and the service has been exellent, why move to Vauxhall, its taking a risk most people dont like jumping.

I moved from AMD CPU's to Intels, glad i did, but still adiment that AMD are still better in terms of previous support, performance, stability, and general good'ness..


I fail to see the logic in a lot of this.

So you bought a GTX 470 because you wanted an nVidia card? There IS something wrong with that. Companies want your money, they don't give a damn about anything else. Buy what gets you the most for your money, don't buy on loyalty because these companies have no sense of loyalty towards you. Same thing applies to cars, brand loyalty is stupidity.

But, I'm guessing you bought the GTX 470 back when it was a great card for the money, which there is nothing wrong with.

How does AMD have better support, performance, and stability? AMD's support is almost non-existent, the performance lags behind Intel right now, and their stability is completely dependent on outside variables.
m
0
l
a b U Graphics card
October 22, 2010 8:52:32 PM

reccy said:
It doesnt matter who is beating who, or who is "winning".. People buy into the band wagon at no cost.

If someone wants a nVidia then no matter what AMD offers, it terms of performance, power, looks.. etc people stick to what they know..
To be fair, when building computers or reading peoples requests, heat and power are usually the last talking point.. Fact is, who cares if Nvidia make a card which runs at 2000oC?? They have obviously designed the card for them temperatures...

Fact is, in my opinion, my GTX470's from Nvidia are perfect for my system.. So what if AMD 5990 (5890, 5980?? Not sure on the AMD version of a GTX470/480) Is drawing alot less power and has a lower operating temperature? People buy in what they believe in and experiance is key..

Same in any situation, you bought cars from Ford all your driving life, and the service has been exellent, why move to Vauxhall, its taking a risk most people dont like jumping.

I moved from AMD CPU's to Intels, glad i did, but still adiment that AMD are still better in terms of previous support, performance, stability, and general good'ness..


On the contrary my friend, I have talked MANY Nvidia "fanboys" into getting an AMD (ATI) video card. And i didn't even preach one side or the other, i simply introduced them to the 58x0 line of video cards and they changed their minds almost instantly, well, except for one of them, i had to pull a couple of his teeth out but let's keep that on the lo-lo. Once Nvidia came out with the GTX 460 1GB cards, i then flipped a couple of those same people to get 2 x GTX 460 1GB's for SLI.

I think you'll see that price/performance has a much bigger threshold over fanboy-ism these days, thanks in part to today's economy and AMD offering great products.

Not to say that Nvidia isn't offering great products, because they certainly are, in fact, it's kinda been the norm for them for quite some time... For AMD (ATI), it's only recently been around since 4xxx...
m
0
l
a b U Graphics card
October 22, 2010 9:00:18 PM

AMW1011 said:
I fail to see the logic in a lot of this.

So you bought a GTX 470 because you wanted an nVidia card? There IS something wrong with that. Companies want your money, they don't give a damn about anything else. Buy what gets you the most for your money, don't buy on loyalty because these companies have no sense of loyalty towards you. Same thing applies to cars, brand loyalty is stupidity.

But, I'm guessing you bought the GTX 470 back when it was a great card for the money, which there is nothing wrong with.

How does AMD have better support, performance, and stability? AMD's support is almost non-existent, the performance lags behind Intel right now, and their stability is completely dependent on outside variables.


1st off - Nvidia is what ive always gone on, i bought 3 ATI cards and all 3 were awful to load drivers, a pain in the ass once drivers where loaded and the support i offically got from ATI/Shappire was abissmal at best.
Stuck to Nvidia GPU's for 9/10 years, with very little problems.. So my loyality is to nvidia in the sence that ive had a good run of luck with these so far, and i fail to see the gains from risking switching to ATI/AMD after the given previous experiance i had. I know both have profit margins to hit, and whatever the cost they have to hit it, being re branded cards, or over priced non performing cards.

2ndly regarding the CPU's, i used to work for my Local Council as a PC Engineer, we used Dell machines and they come with Intel CPU's. Fact was we had numerous problems with these CPU's, ranging from stability in the basic of programs (Word, Outlook) to really poor performance after little use and more maintance to keep these "Optimized". We experiment with a be-it overpriced Dell AMD machine, and we failed to see any reason why to venture back to Intel apart from the price as Dell seemed to produce more Intel PC's then AMD's..
Numerous times we contacted Dell and Intel for support and many occasions we were left frustrated and neglected on reason unknown to man. After service was the same shite you can get monkeys to train. (Clear temp int files, temp folder etc) That was the support we got..

Ok the above is working on a business agreement, but ive personally never had any problems with Nvidia and AMD based system. But i will say this now though, Ive swapped from AMD to Intels i7 Chip (again, at a huge cost) and im glad i did.. I havent got the confidence to support the previous when switching from Nvidia to ATI/AMD.. Nvidia have served me well and to be fair, always had the GPU's i want and seem to be lucky in the fact when i research a GPU, Nvidia is usually near the top.. Example GTX470's - Pretty decent cards all round, and up there with the rest of the big guns.
m
0
l
a c 235 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
October 22, 2010 9:10:08 PM

AMW1011 said:

That isn't stated anywhere in there...


OK baby you are right so when he stated "If you look at the steam survey and at dx11 which will tell us about what is selling now, nvidia gets stomped. " he was completely wrong. Nvidia is stomping AMD with DX 11, you are completely correct on that :pfff: 
m
0
l
October 22, 2010 9:18:57 PM

reccy said:
It doesnt matter who is beating who, or who is "winning".. People buy into the band wagon at no cost.

If someone wants a nVidia then no matter what AMD offers, it terms of performance, power, looks.. etc people stick to what they know..
To be fair, when building computers or reading peoples requests, heat and power are usually the last talking point.. Fact is, who cares if Nvidia make a card which runs at 2000oC?? They have obviously designed the card for them temperatures...

Fact is, in my opinion, my GTX470's from Nvidia are perfect for my system.. So what if AMD 5990 (5890, 5980?? Not sure on the AMD version of a GTX470/480) Is drawing alot less power and has a lower operating temperature? People buy in what they believe in and experiance is key..

Same in any situation, you bought cars from Ford all your driving life, and the service has been exellent, why move to Vauxhall, its taking a risk most people dont like jumping.

I moved from AMD CPU's to Intels, glad i did, but still adiment that AMD are still better in terms of previous support, performance, stability, and general good'ness..


I agree his point. GPU is not like memory or some other simple item you can easy to compare just by some number. GPU is more like an OS.
it real doesn't matter which Card fast in benchmark or not. I try to love AMD card but I just can't use them. they are too buggy.

m
0
l
a b U Graphics card
October 22, 2010 9:30:45 PM

ct1615 said:
OK baby you are right so when he stated "If you look at the steam survey and at dx11 which will tell us about what is selling now, nvidia gets stomped. " he was completely wrong. Nvidia is stomping AMD with DX 11, you are completely correct on that :pfff: 


You said that it confirmed that nVidia has greater marketshare by 3:2 to AMD. What you quoted and what you just said have little to do with that, unless you are refering to the part where nVidia has been trailing ATI since the 5xxx series launch, which is true. However, it seemed like you were referring to both. I didn't know if it had another statistic that supported your first point or not, that is all. No reason to be some defensive.
m
0
l
a b U Graphics card
October 22, 2010 9:35:21 PM

yanje03 said:
I agree his point. GPU is not like memory or some other simple item you can easy to compare just by some number. GPU is more like an OS.
it real doesn't matter which Card fast in benchmark or not. I try to love AMD card but I just can't use them. they are too buggy.


And if I said that all of the 7 gaming rigs that I have set up with 5xxx series have had little or no problems, then should I only buy ATI? These things change, and to say that you've had problems so you will never try again no matter what is foolish when we are talking money. The truth is that I've never had any monstrous problems with ANY ATI driver since my X850. I've had minor problems and drivers that worked better than others, but that has been with both companies. I admit installing, updating, and maintaining nVidia drivers is a lot easier, but I've never failed to do so.

Look I respect your trepidation, just don't typecast them. All you may do is scare away some under informed lurker that reads your post. I've been hearing belly-aching about ATI drivers for years, but never any concrete issues or statements. The truth is that ATI drivers are fine, but nVidia's are slightly better.
m
0
l
a b U Graphics card
October 22, 2010 10:23:18 PM

Nvidia drivers are just as bad as ATI's and that's a plain fact. You can read nzone or nvidia's own forums after a driver release and all you'll see is whining about something being broken that wasn't before.

The reason you see more with ATI is ATI releases 3x faster drivers.

Look at what ATI has done with drivers this series already - MLAA is a software addition that will let any AMD dx11 card get almost free AA.





You wanna play SC2 on max details with AA? It's now possible because of ATI's driver team. As was Eyefinity a year before Nvidia caught up.
m
0
l
a b U Graphics card
October 22, 2010 10:59:44 PM

eyefinity said:
Nvidia drivers are just as bad as ATI's and that's a plain fact. You can read nzone or nvidia's own forums after a driver release and all you'll see is whining about something being broken that wasn't before.

The reason you see more with ATI is ATI releases 3x faster drivers.


Now I admit I find many of your posts biased, IMO. However, I absolutely agree with this. I've had plenty of driver issues with my 8800 GTS 512mbs over the years, but nothing crushing. Same with all my ATI builds.

However you bring up a point that many forget, ATI comes out with a lot of new drivers while nVidia comes out with a more mature one, but they do it slowly. So ya, 2 ATI drivers might suck in a row, but you will get another one in the coming weeks. With nVidia, if the driver sucks you won't see a fix for a good month or more, unless you count their pretty poor BETA drivers. Just different approaches.

I DO maintain that nVidia have slightly better drivers as far as consistency is concerned. And their install process is a lot better, but ATI's drivers work fine.
m
0
l
a b U Graphics card
October 22, 2010 11:16:07 PM

The problems with nVidias approach currently are many fold
Going large di, theyre hitting the dreaded acceptable TDP at most price/perf levels, not just halo/highend
Like was mentioned earlier, the OEMs have a certain TDP in mind, and going from huge to small, all the while trying to stay within price/perf and TDP is playing h2!! on nVidia now, besides the point that the lower ends will dry up with the igps on board with cpus coming soon.
Also, eventually, Intel is going to enter into the gpgpu arena, with all its resources, and previous findings on LRB type products show itll fare extremely well in this field
This will have huge impacts on nVidia, where both AMD and Intel retain there lower ends of gfx, with nVidia shut out
Theyve also lost their chips, where again, not so for AMD/Intel

This release shows what can happen, as it seems nodes are slowing somewhat, coming to market, as gpus catch up to cpus, or, the cutting edge, and is why 40nm has been such a pain, and going smaller also requires HKMG, again, another delay in nodes
Now, this means nVidia, which has such large di cant just respin and go without a node shrink, as those TDP levels, as well as immense complexity brings even more complications, and allows a leaner, full, power efficient design to do a respin easily, as seen with the 6xxx series
nVidia has to make some tough choices ahead
m
0
l
October 22, 2010 11:29:25 PM

Im just wondering , and its a serious question. How much do you guys actually pay for a kWh? Because the way i see it for the difference between gtx480 and 5870 for 4 hours a day 100% load (unlikely) 365 days a year I would pay around 20$. In reality maybe half of that since while 4 hours a day isnt uncommon for my pc to be turned on, it really doesnt work full load all that time. SO while I understand the issue of noise made by hot nvidia cards, I fail to see why people are so obsessed with energy usage.

From ecology point of view it also doesnt make that much sense - if you care about environment, then driving 50km in a city emits more CO2 then fermi through a whole year. Take a bus once or twice to work and you are already ahead in those terms :0
m
0
l
a b U Graphics card
October 22, 2010 11:35:02 PM

ElMoIsEviL said:
No those are not valid sources for various reasons.

Mercury Research has done extensive research and AMD are ahead of nVIDIA in marketshare now.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-20012025-64.html


Nice Elmo, I had a feeling we were looking at pretty close to a 50:50 in marketshare right now. Good catch.
m
0
l
a b U Graphics card
October 22, 2010 11:36:55 PM

Its not that simple
Can you use the same components using both cards?
PSUs?
The radiant heat is still released into your case, even tho the majority is pushed out the back, therefor raising temps thruout your rig
It does add up
And Im not doing wattage used per costs, but it too adds up
m
0
l
a b U Graphics card
October 22, 2010 11:41:04 PM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
Its not that simple
Can you use the same components using both cards?
PSUs?
The radiant heat is still released into your case, even tho the majority is pushed out the back, therefor raising temps thruout your rig
It does add up
And Im not doing wattage used per costs, but it too adds up


Well you have to factor in the case. If the case exhausts hot air very efficiently, then adding hotter components shouldn't make that much a difference.
m
0
l
October 22, 2010 11:42:35 PM

Well every card now of days if it has any umph makes your computer into a space heater under load. About the per/kWh might mean something to a person who does a lot of folding but that's s small segment of buyers.
m
0
l
October 23, 2010 12:04:44 AM

eyefinity said:
Nvidia drivers are just as bad as ATI's and that's a plain fact. You can read nzone or nvidia's own forums after a driver release and all you'll see is whining about something being broken that wasn't before.

The reason you see more with ATI is ATI releases 3x faster drivers.

Look at what ATI has done with drivers this series already - MLAA is a software addition that will let any AMD dx11 card get almost free AA.

http://media.bestofmicro.com/E/8/266192/original/morphological%20aa%20comparo.gif

http://media.bestofmicro.com/D/1/266149/original/morphological%20aa.png

You wanna play SC2 on max details with AA? It's now possible because of ATI's driver team. As was Eyefinity a year before Nvidia caught up.


AMD just dont have forum to let players to cry.
m
0
l
October 23, 2010 12:08:10 AM

AMW1011 said:
You said that it confirmed that nVidia has greater marketshare by 3:2 to AMD. What you quoted and what you just said have little to do with that, unless you are refering to the part where nVidia has been trailing ATI since the 5xxx series launch, which is true. However, it seemed like you were referring to both. I didn't know if it had another statistic that supported your first point or not, that is all. No reason to be some defensive.


please let AMD card could work under window mode without black for FFXIV.

Every game company tests their game under nvida card but not AMD which causes nVdia card has less problem. make sense?
m
0
l
a b U Graphics card
October 23, 2010 12:47:23 AM

yanje03 said:
AMD just dont have forum to let players to cry.


AMDzone.com

yanje03 said:
please let AMD card could work under window mode without black for FFXIV.

Every game company tests their game under nvida card but not AMD which causes nVdia card has less problem. make sense?


A quick google search reveals no problems with ATI cards and running FF14 in windowed mode.

Where is your proof that every game company tests with an nVidia card? That is completely false, they test with both.
m
0
l
a c 376 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
October 23, 2010 1:27:52 AM

reccy said:
It doesnt matter who is beating who, or who is "winning".. People buy into the band wagon at no cost.

If someone wants a nVidia then no matter what AMD offers, it terms of performance, power, looks.. etc people stick to what they know..
To be fair, when building computers or reading peoples requests, heat and power are usually the last talking point.. Fact is, who cares if Nvidia make a card which runs at 2000oC?? They have obviously designed the card for them temperatures...

Fact is, in my opinion, my GTX470's from Nvidia are perfect for my system.. So what if AMD 5990 (5890, 5980?? Not sure on the AMD version of a GTX470/480) Is drawing alot less power and has a lower operating temperature? People buy in what they believe in and experiance is key..

Same in any situation, you bought cars from Ford all your driving life, and the service has been exellent, why move to Vauxhall, its taking a risk most people dont like jumping.

I moved from AMD CPU's to Intels, glad i did, but still adiment that AMD are still better in terms of previous support, performance, stability, and general good'ness..

So despite being happy with a brand of CPU you used and trusted you switched because someone else was offering a better product and you are glad you did... which is the exact opposite of what you are saying other people will do with regard to video cards... makes sense.
m
0
l
a c 235 U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
October 23, 2010 1:50:40 AM

i think what yanjeo3 means is that lovely logo at the start of each game telling you how the game "was meant to be played". this probably helps with the whole Nvidia drivers are better argument since people see the Nvidia logo at the start of their favorite games or the game's box more often then ATI.
m
0
l
!