ATI Mobility Radeon 9700 or Nvidia FXGo 5700?

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Dex wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am looking at getting a new laptop but want something that has a
> decent graphics card and good RAM and HDD. I have decided to go for
> either a Toshiba Qosmio F10 - 124 or a Toshiba P30-133. The Qosmio
> has a FXGo 5700 card and a very good quality TFT screen but the
> P30-133 has a Mobility Radeon 9700 but a larger poorer quality screen
> brightness wise. The other factor I was thinking of was the
> processor. The Qosmio has a 1.6Ghz 2Mb Cache while the P30-133 has a
> P4 3.33Ghz 1MB Cache. I want something that will last a long while
> and was thinking about choosing the P30-133. The only snag I have
> with it is that it does not look great compared to the Qosmio. Also
> the Qosmio offers dual HDD support. Anyone know whether the graphics
> card in the Qosmio can be upgraded in the future??
>
> If anyone could offer some advice or knows of a better laptop with a
> great graphics card and good screen please let me know. Any advice is
> welcome.

I think you are mistaken about a P4 having greater longevity than a P-M.
Given that the P4s tend to run hotter than the P-M, that alone says that
the P-M has potentially longer life. (This even given the huge heat pipe
coolers on the current crop of 3+Ghz P4 laptops that can heat the entire
room). The CPU cache is incidental to your choice, IMO. It will largely
go unused in normal operation and/or you'll never notice the difference
in cache. More important is the VRAM. Get the largest VRAM you can
afford. Word on the street is that Nvidia is eating ATI's lunch, but my
ATI cards work just fine. No, there is little chance that any laptop
video card (chip, really) can be upgraded in the future, even if you
could find the parts and even if the GPU is socketed (which is very
unlikely). Neither vendor sells laptop GPUs outside the OEM market. Get
the fastest, largest HD you can afford or plan to upgrade after
purchase. The Hitachi 7K60 is a very good 7200 rpm drive, but Fujitsu
has another. A 4200 rpm drive will defeat the performance of both
laptops.

Otherwise, there have been reports of reliability problems with the
Qosmio in its early release (Google Groups). Frankly, Toshiba has
slipped, again IMO, in its overall quality. I think you can do just as
well, possibly less expensively, with other vendors.

If you have not had experience with widescreen LCDs, you should be aware
of the differences in a 16:9 widescreen compared to a standard 4:3
screen, particularly in gaming and photo/video work. The height of the
screen in both cases governs the rendition of a 4:3 game or photo
display. A 15 inch widescreen will display a 4:3 frame equivalently to
a 12 inch standard display.

Q

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

I had a laptop with a Radeon 9700 mobility and it was great. It had a
p4 2.8ghz proc and 512mb ram and ran hl2, halo doom and other games
awesome but it just got stolen. I bought it in july of last year from
http://www.powernotebooks.com and it only cost me 1700 US.
The brand of computer is Sager www.sagernotebooks.com.
They use the same or similar parts as alienware and vodoo and I didnt
have any trouble with it. No dead pixels in the LCD, never overheated,
bumped it around alot since i took it everwhere. I cant really compare
it to the nvidia card you mentioned but I have to say the radeon was
great.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Quaoar wrote:
> I think you are mistaken about a P4 having greater longevity than a P-M.
> Given that the P4s tend to run hotter than the P-M, that alone says that
> the P-M has potentially longer life.

I *think* he was referring to lifetime of usage, ie, that the P4 would
remain in the target performance band as chips and the software for them
progress.

> No, there is little chance that any laptop
> video card (chip, really) can be upgraded in the future, even if you
> could find the parts and even if the GPU is socketed (which is very
> unlikely). Neither vendor sells laptop GPUs outside the OEM market.

Your information is out of date. This was the case up until a year or
so ago, but there are several laptops with upgradeable video being
advertised and sold today.

> The Hitachi 7K60 is a very good 7200 rpm drive,

Second that. I have one, and it is quiet, cool, and fast.

> Otherwise, there have been reports of reliability problems with the
> Qosmio in its early release (Google Groups). Frankly, Toshiba has
> slipped, again IMO, in its overall quality. I think you can do just as
> well, possibly less expensively, with other vendors.

Toshiba is the low-cost vendor among major name brands, especially if
you are a smart shopper. I got my P25 in August 2003 for 1400 bucks at
Circuit City (after rebates). It's amazing how much cheaper they are
than Dell, for example. Toshiba no longer manufactures their own brand
in their own factories, but who does? Buy the 3-year support which is
*very* reasonable from Toshiba, and *only* take your system to
Authorized Premier Toshiba repair centers, even if you have to drive or
ship it there.

> If you have not had experience with widescreen LCDs, you should be aware
> of the differences in a 16:9 widescreen compared to a standard 4:3
> screen, particularly in gaming and photo/video work. The height of the
> screen in both cases governs the rendition of a 4:3 game or photo
> display. A 15 inch widescreen will display a 4:3 frame equivalently to
> a 12 inch standard display.

I get your point, but your triginometry is off a bit - the adjustment is
not as severe as you say. When showing a 4:3 *source*, a 15" 16:9 is
equivalent to a 12.3" 4:3.

Widescreens however are generally 15.4" or 17" diagonal. When showing a
4:3 *source*, a 15.4" widescreen is equivalent to a 12.6" 4:3 screen.

HOWEVER, the widescreen will still have free space on each side of the
image. That is usable work space.

For photo/video editing, you get more work space for toolbars, so the
wide form factor works really, really well, and gives you much more
*usable* space than the 4:3 form factor.

And on the 4:3, in real life, you would have to shrink the image in
order to see menubars and toolbars, so the advantage in the end goes to
the widescreen.

Of course, I have a 17" widescreen, which displays the same size 4:3
source material as a 13.9" 4:3 screen, plus as I said, it still would
have free space around the image to place tools and other windows.

I don't do pc gaming, so I don't know if any use a widescreen
movie-style format, but even in games I imagine you have toolbars or
other control interfaces that can be placed on the side of the main
graphic display.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Richard Grossman wrote:
> Quaoar wrote:
>> I think you are mistaken about a P4 having greater longevity than a
>> P-M. Given that the P4s tend to run hotter than the P-M, that alone
>> says that the P-M has potentially longer life.
>
> I *think* he was referring to lifetime of usage, ie, that the P4 would
> remain in the target performance band as chips and the software for
> them progress.
>
>> No, there is little chance that any laptop
>> video card (chip, really) can be upgraded in the future, even if you
>> could find the parts and even if the GPU is socketed (which is very
>> unlikely). Neither vendor sells laptop GPUs outside the OEM market.
>
> Your information is out of date. This was the case up until a year
> or so ago, but there are several laptops with upgradeable video being
> advertised and sold today.
>
>> The Hitachi 7K60 is a very good 7200 rpm drive,
>
> Second that. I have one, and it is quiet, cool, and fast.
>
>> Otherwise, there have been reports of reliability problems with the
>> Qosmio in its early release (Google Groups). Frankly, Toshiba has
>> slipped, again IMO, in its overall quality. I think you can do just
>> as well, possibly less expensively, with other vendors.
>
> Toshiba is the low-cost vendor among major name brands, especially if
> you are a smart shopper. I got my P25 in August 2003 for 1400 bucks
> at Circuit City (after rebates). It's amazing how much cheaper they
> are than Dell, for example. Toshiba no longer manufactures their own
> brand in their own factories, but who does? Buy the 3-year support
> which is *very* reasonable from Toshiba, and *only* take your system
> to Authorized Premier Toshiba repair centers, even if you have to
> drive or ship it there.
>
>> If you have not had experience with widescreen LCDs, you should be
>> aware of the differences in a 16:9 widescreen compared to a standard
>> 4:3 screen, particularly in gaming and photo/video work. The height
>> of the screen in both cases governs the rendition of a 4:3 game or
>> photo display. A 15 inch widescreen will display a 4:3 frame
>> equivalently to a 12 inch standard display.
>
> I get your point, but your triginometry is off a bit - the adjustment
> is not as severe as you say. When showing a 4:3 *source*, a 15" 16:9
> is equivalent to a 12.3" 4:3.
>
> Widescreens however are generally 15.4" or 17" diagonal. When
> showing a 4:3 *source*, a 15.4" widescreen is equivalent to a 12.6"
> 4:3 screen.
> HOWEVER, the widescreen will still have free space on each side of the
> image. That is usable work space.
>
> For photo/video editing, you get more work space for toolbars, so the
> wide form factor works really, really well, and gives you much more
> *usable* space than the 4:3 form factor.
>
> And on the 4:3, in real life, you would have to shrink the image in
> order to see menubars and toolbars, so the advantage in the end goes
> to the widescreen.
>
> Of course, I have a 17" widescreen, which displays the same size 4:3
> source material as a 13.9" 4:3 screen, plus as I said, it still would
> have free space around the image to place tools and other windows.
>
> I don't do pc gaming, so I don't know if any use a widescreen
> movie-style format, but even in games I imagine you have toolbars or
> other control interfaces that can be placed on the side of the main
> graphic display.

Thanks for your comments. I wholeheartedly disagree, though, with your
comments on the replacement for a GPU. Yes, some boards have video
daughter cards or socketed GPUs, but I challenge you to supply examples
wherein the GPU can be upgraded even in these systems.

Q

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Quaoar wrote:
>
> Thanks for your comments. I wholeheartedly disagree, though, with
> your comments on the replacement for a GPU. Yes, some boards have
> video daughter cards or socketed GPUs, but I challenge you to supply
> examples wherein the GPU can be upgraded even in these systems.
>
C&P

The Sager NP9860 was designed with a modular video unit that allows exchange
of the unit's video card. At the time of design, Sager hoped that the unit
would be exchangeable by the user, but recognized that as technology moved
forward, some aspects of the design might require manufacturer modification
in order for a new module to work properly. With cards that share the same
thermal design as the original, we encourage end users to do their own
exchanges. However, some cards, such as the new NVIDIA® GeForceT Go 6800
w/GDDR3 and ATi MOBILITYT RADEON® X800, have a different thermal design that
requires modification of the unit by Sager in order to run optimally. New
technology having this kind of impact will require Sager to modify the unit
in order for the upgrade to run properly.

For those users wishing to purchase the NVIDIA® GeForceT Go 6800 w/GDDR3 or
ATi MOBILITYT RADEON® X800, Sager will perform the necessary modifications
to their unit and install the card. Shipping and handling charges to Sager
will be the responsibility of the customer. Three-day shipping back to the
customer will be paid for by Sager.

Please Contact Sager Techsupport department for detailed information.

Units with Serial Numbers starting with 84xxxxxxxxxx will be requiring
modification by Sager in order for the cards to work properly.

Units with Serial Numbers starting with 85xxxxxxxxxx can be upgraded by the
User.

Pricing for S/N: 84xxxxxxxxxx:
nVIDIA® GeForceT Go 6800 w/GDDR3 available Feb. 9th 2005 for $465.00.
ATi MOBILITYT RADEON® X800 available Feb. 9th 2005 for $445.00.

Pricing for S/N: 85xxxxxxxxxx:
nVIDIA® GeForceT Go 6800 w/GDDR3 available Feb. 9th 2005 for $395.00.
ATi MOBILITYT RADEON® X800 available Feb. 9th 2005 for $375.00.


Please contact Sager directly if you are intersted a video card upgrade or
change.


End C&P

Dan

> Q

Archived from groups: comp.sys.laptops (More info?)

Quaoar wrote:

> Thanks for your comments. I wholeheartedly disagree, though, with your
> comments on the replacement for a GPU. Yes, some boards have video
> daughter cards or socketed GPUs, but I challenge you to supply examples
> wherein the GPU can be upgraded even in these systems.

Although someone else has posted a response to your challenge, in actual
practice I do agree with you, actually, in that I wouldn't *count* on
being able to upgrade video even if so advertised.